Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.

Suggestions for data bus wiring?

Expand Messages
  • Jay Beavers
    OK, I m constructing my first multi-layered robot. One new problem I m going to have to deal with is the best way to move signals between layers. For
    Message 1 of 20 , Jan 3, 2005
    • 0 Attachment
      OK, I'm constructing my first "multi-layered" robot. One new problem I'm going to have to deal with is the best way to move signals between layers. For instance, my layering looks like:


      Level 4: Top
      -----------------------------------
      Level 3: Sensors
      -----------------------------------
      Level 2: Computer
      -----------------------------------
      Level 1: Batteries & Drive Train

      I'm going to need to move power from Level 1 to Levels 2 & 3. This is easy enough since it's really only three wires -- ground, unregulated battery voltage, & 5V regulated.

      However, sensors & I/O are going to be more complex. For instance, I need to move 4x USB & 1 RS-232 between the Level 2 Computer & Level 3 Sensors layers. I may be putting a couple of sensors on the top of the robot for interference reasons (USB GPS & I2C compass come to mind). I'd like each layer to easily attach/detach from each other with preferably only two plugs -- one power & one i/o cable.

      I've seen some folks use ribbon cables -- like those used in computer hard drives & floppy drives -- but I have no experience or tools for making custom ribbon cables & I don't know how to "break out" the individual wires easily without going through the process of creating a custom circuit board with headers.

      What would people recommend for this and can I get the parts & tools from Fry's or should I order them from Jameco & DigiKey? Am I reasonably safe in splicing a couple of USB signal wires onto one ribbon cable along with RS-232 & perhaps some I2C and simple 5V analog/digital sensor wires given the fact that the total wire length will only be around two feet or will interference play havok with me?

      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • John M
      I ve standardized with talking I2C (TWI) between most of my boards. My cabling now consists almost entirely of 6-conductor RJ-11 (phone plugs). It is
      Message 2 of 20 , Jan 3, 2005
      • 0 Attachment
        I've standardized with talking I2C (TWI) between most of my boards. My
        cabling now consists almost entirely of 6-conductor RJ-11 (phone plugs). It
        is astoundingly easy to create nice clean (and cheap) cables, and the
        connectors are more secure than a lot of the molex stuff.

        The lines are (SCL, VCC, GND, SDA, INT, RESERVED), where INT is an optional
        interrupt pin so TWI slaves can alert the master when they need to be
        serviced.

        Since I'm sending power through the same cable, many of my peripheral boards
        need no other external connections (other than application-specific, such as
        sensor leads).

        My main issue with this is that I have to put the custom socket on the
        boards, or create an adapter; in practice it's not a big deal.

        I was thinking about going with RJ-45 (Ethernet cabling), but wanted to keep
        things small. If I start running into signal problems, I may end up having
        to switch.

        Anybody else going this route?



        > -----Original Message-----
        > From: Jay Beavers [mailto:Jay_C_Beavers@...]
        > Sent: Monday, January 03, 2005 12:16 PM
        > To: SeattleRobotics@yahoogroups.com
        > Subject: [SeattleRobotics] Suggestions for data bus wiring?
        >
        >
        > OK, I'm constructing my first "multi-layered" robot. One new problem I'm
        > going to have to deal with is the best way to move signals between layers.
        > For instance, my layering looks like:
        >
        >
        > Level 4: Top
        > -----------------------------------
        > Level 3: Sensors
        > -----------------------------------
        > Level 2: Computer
        > -----------------------------------
        > Level 1: Batteries & Drive Train
        >
        > I'm going to need to move power from Level 1 to Levels 2 & 3. This is
        > easy enough since it's really only three wires -- ground, unregulated
        > battery voltage, & 5V regulated.
        >
        > However, sensors & I/O are going to be more complex. For instance, I need
        > to move 4x USB & 1 RS-232 between the Level 2 Computer & Level 3 Sensors
        > layers. I may be putting a couple of sensors on the top of the robot for
        > interference reasons (USB GPS & I2C compass come to mind). I'd like each
        > layer to easily attach/detach from each other with preferably only two
        > plugs -- one power & one i/o cable.
        >
        > I've seen some folks use ribbon cables -- like those used in computer hard
        > drives & floppy drives -- but I have no experience or tools for making
        > custom ribbon cables & I don't know how to "break out" the individual
        > wires easily without going through the process of creating a custom
        > circuit board with headers.
        >
        > What would people recommend for this and can I get the parts & tools from
        > Fry's or should I order them from Jameco & DigiKey? Am I reasonably safe
        > in splicing a couple of USB signal wires onto one ribbon cable along with
        > RS-232 & perhaps some I2C and simple 5V analog/digital sensor wires given
        > the fact that the total wire length will only be around two feet or will
        > interference play havok with me?
        >
        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        >
        >
        >
        > Visit the SRS Website at http://www.seattlerobotics.org
        > Yahoo! Groups Links
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
      • Susan M
        I need to know the answer to similar questions myself. The art and design of cable and data signal management? :) Susan
        Message 3 of 20 , Jan 4, 2005
        • 0 Attachment
          I need to know the answer to similar questions myself. The art and
          design of cable and data signal management? :)
          Susan
        • Lee Leathers
          Well, using the rj-11 makes the job look a lot better.. but is it actually better (than using screw down terminals?).. I could definitily see HUGE time savings
          Message 4 of 20 , Jan 4, 2005
          • 0 Attachment
            Well, using the rj-11 makes the job look a lot better.. but is it actually
            better (than using screw down terminals?).. I could definitily see HUGE time
            savings when you are having to use modular board designs.. or having to take
            these boards away from each other a lot (in the case of debugging/ssystem
            design)..

            Hm.. there is also a space issue too.. I like the rj11/rj45 because it saves
            space.

            Another issue is.. it will be a little bit cheaper (?) to go the rj11/rj45
            way..

            Hmm.. I like it! I am definitly going to use it in my next design..

            How many wires are in rj45?

            thanks-Lee




            ----- Original Message -----
            From: "John M" <john@...>
            To: <SeattleRobotics@yahoogroups.com>
            Sent: Monday, January 03, 2005 4:34 PM
            Subject: RE: [SeattleRobotics] Suggestions for data bus wiring?


            >
            > I've standardized with talking I2C (TWI) between most of my boards. My
            > cabling now consists almost entirely of 6-conductor RJ-11 (phone plugs).
            > It
            > is astoundingly easy to create nice clean (and cheap) cables, and the
            > connectors are more secure than a lot of the molex stuff.
            >
            > The lines are (SCL, VCC, GND, SDA, INT, RESERVED), where INT is an
            > optional
            > interrupt pin so TWI slaves can alert the master when they need to be
            > serviced.
            >
            > Since I'm sending power through the same cable, many of my peripheral
            > boards
            > need no other external connections (other than application-specific, such
            > as
            > sensor leads).
            >
            > My main issue with this is that I have to put the custom socket on the
            > boards, or create an adapter; in practice it's not a big deal.
            >
            > I was thinking about going with RJ-45 (Ethernet cabling), but wanted to
            > keep
            > things small. If I start running into signal problems, I may end up
            > having
            > to switch.
            >
            > Anybody else going this route?
            >
            >
            >
            >> -----Original Message-----
            >> From: Jay Beavers [mailto:Jay_C_Beavers@...]
            >> Sent: Monday, January 03, 2005 12:16 PM
            >> To: SeattleRobotics@yahoogroups.com
            >> Subject: [SeattleRobotics] Suggestions for data bus wiring?
            >>
            >>
            >> OK, I'm constructing my first "multi-layered" robot. One new problem I'm
            >> going to have to deal with is the best way to move signals between
            >> layers.
            >> For instance, my layering looks like:
            >>
            >>
            >> Level 4: Top
            >> -----------------------------------
            >> Level 3: Sensors
            >> -----------------------------------
            >> Level 2: Computer
            >> -----------------------------------
            >> Level 1: Batteries & Drive Train
            >>
            >> I'm going to need to move power from Level 1 to Levels 2 & 3. This is
            >> easy enough since it's really only three wires -- ground, unregulated
            >> battery voltage, & 5V regulated.
            >>
            >> However, sensors & I/O are going to be more complex. For instance, I
            >> need
            >> to move 4x USB & 1 RS-232 between the Level 2 Computer & Level 3 Sensors
            >> layers. I may be putting a couple of sensors on the top of the robot for
            >> interference reasons (USB GPS & I2C compass come to mind). I'd like each
            >> layer to easily attach/detach from each other with preferably only two
            >> plugs -- one power & one i/o cable.
            >>
            >> I've seen some folks use ribbon cables -- like those used in computer
            >> hard
            >> drives & floppy drives -- but I have no experience or tools for making
            >> custom ribbon cables & I don't know how to "break out" the individual
            >> wires easily without going through the process of creating a custom
            >> circuit board with headers.
            >>
            >> What would people recommend for this and can I get the parts & tools from
            >> Fry's or should I order them from Jameco & DigiKey? Am I reasonably safe
            >> in splicing a couple of USB signal wires onto one ribbon cable along with
            >> RS-232 & perhaps some I2C and simple 5V analog/digital sensor wires given
            >> the fact that the total wire length will only be around two feet or will
            >> interference play havok with me?
            >>
            >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            >>
            >>
            >>
            >> Visit the SRS Website at http://www.seattlerobotics.org
            >> Yahoo! Groups Links
            >>
            >>
            >>
            >>
            >>
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > Visit the SRS Website at http://www.seattlerobotics.org
            > Yahoo! Groups Links
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
          • Jim McBride
            There are 8 wires. ... JIMc x22661 National Ignition Facility
            Message 5 of 20 , Jan 4, 2005
            • 0 Attachment
              There are 8 wires.

              At 04:19 PM 1/4/2005 -0500, you wrote:

              >Well, using the rj-11 makes the job look a lot better.. but is it actually
              >better (than using screw down terminals?).. I could definitily see HUGE time
              >savings when you are having to use modular board designs.. or having to take
              >these boards away from each other a lot (in the case of debugging/ssystem
              >design)..
              >
              >Hm.. there is also a space issue too.. I like the rj11/rj45 because it saves
              >space.
              >
              >Another issue is.. it will be a little bit cheaper (?) to go the rj11/rj45
              >way..
              >
              >Hmm.. I like it! I am definitly going to use it in my next design..
              >
              >How many wires are in rj45?
              >
              >thanks-Lee
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >----- Original Message -----
              >From: "John M" <john@...>
              >To: <SeattleRobotics@yahoogroups.com>
              >Sent: Monday, January 03, 2005 4:34 PM
              >Subject: RE: [SeattleRobotics] Suggestions for data bus wiring?
              >
              >
              > >
              > > I've standardized with talking I2C (TWI) between most of my boards. My
              > > cabling now consists almost entirely of 6-conductor RJ-11 (phone plugs).
              > > It
              > > is astoundingly easy to create nice clean (and cheap) cables, and the
              > > connectors are more secure than a lot of the molex stuff.
              > >
              > > The lines are (SCL, VCC, GND, SDA, INT, RESERVED), where INT is an
              > > optional
              > > interrupt pin so TWI slaves can alert the master when they need to be
              > > serviced.
              > >
              > > Since I'm sending power through the same cable, many of my peripheral
              > > boards
              > > need no other external connections (other than application-specific, such
              > > as
              > > sensor leads).
              > >
              > > My main issue with this is that I have to put the custom socket on the
              > > boards, or create an adapter; in practice it's not a big deal.
              > >
              > > I was thinking about going with RJ-45 (Ethernet cabling), but wanted to
              > > keep
              > > things small. If I start running into signal problems, I may end up
              > > having
              > > to switch.
              > >
              > > Anybody else going this route?
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >> -----Original Message-----
              > >> From: Jay Beavers [mailto:Jay_C_Beavers@...]
              > >> Sent: Monday, January 03, 2005 12:16 PM
              > >> To: SeattleRobotics@yahoogroups.com
              > >> Subject: [SeattleRobotics] Suggestions for data bus wiring?
              > >>
              > >>
              > >> OK, I'm constructing my first "multi-layered" robot. One new problem I'm
              > >> going to have to deal with is the best way to move signals between
              > >> layers.
              > >> For instance, my layering looks like:
              > >>
              > >>
              > >> Level 4: Top
              > >> -----------------------------------
              > >> Level 3: Sensors
              > >> -----------------------------------
              > >> Level 2: Computer
              > >> -----------------------------------
              > >> Level 1: Batteries & Drive Train
              > >>
              > >> I'm going to need to move power from Level 1 to Levels 2 & 3. This is
              > >> easy enough since it's really only three wires -- ground, unregulated
              > >> battery voltage, & 5V regulated.
              > >>
              > >> However, sensors & I/O are going to be more complex. For instance, I
              > >> need
              > >> to move 4x USB & 1 RS-232 between the Level 2 Computer & Level 3 Sensors
              > >> layers. I may be putting a couple of sensors on the top of the robot for
              > >> interference reasons (USB GPS & I2C compass come to mind). I'd like each
              > >> layer to easily attach/detach from each other with preferably only two
              > >> plugs -- one power & one i/o cable.
              > >>
              > >> I've seen some folks use ribbon cables -- like those used in computer
              > >> hard
              > >> drives & floppy drives -- but I have no experience or tools for making
              > >> custom ribbon cables & I don't know how to "break out" the individual
              > >> wires easily without going through the process of creating a custom
              > >> circuit board with headers.
              > >>
              > >> What would people recommend for this and can I get the parts & tools from
              > >> Fry's or should I order them from Jameco & DigiKey? Am I reasonably safe
              > >> in splicing a couple of USB signal wires onto one ribbon cable along with
              > >> RS-232 & perhaps some I2C and simple 5V analog/digital sensor wires given
              > >> the fact that the total wire length will only be around two feet or will
              > >> interference play havok with me?
              > >>
              > >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              > >>
              > >>
              > >>
              > >> Visit the SRS Website at http://www.seattlerobotics.org
              > >> Yahoo! Groups Links
              > >>
              > >>
              > >>
              > >>
              > >>
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > > Visit the SRS Website at http://www.seattlerobotics.org
              > > Yahoo! Groups Links
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >Visit the SRS Website at http://www.seattlerobotics.org
              >Yahoo! Groups Links
              >
              >
              >
              >

              JIMc
              x22661
              National Ignition Facility
            • Kenneth Maxon
              If you are looking for more than 8 conductors... An RJ-48 connector is the same as a RJ-45 connector, but has 10 conductors and is ever so slightly wider.
              Message 6 of 20 , Jan 4, 2005
              • 0 Attachment
                If you are looking for more than 8 conductors... An RJ-48 connector is the
                same as a RJ-45 connector, but has 10 conductors and is ever so slightly
                wider.

                -Kenneth
                (Unit 3's in trouble and it's scared out of its wits) -Geddy Lee
                ----- Original Message -----
                From: "Jim McBride" <mcbride7@...>
                To: <SeattleRobotics@yahoogroups.com>
                Sent: Tuesday, January 04, 2005 1:28 PM
                Subject: Re: [SeattleRobotics] Suggestions for data bus wiring?


                >
                > There are 8 wires.
                >
                > At 04:19 PM 1/4/2005 -0500, you wrote:
                >
                > >Well, using the rj-11 makes the job look a lot better.. but is it
                actually
                > >better (than using screw down terminals?).. I could definitily see HUGE
                time
                > >savings when you are having to use modular board designs.. or having to
                take
                > >these boards away from each other a lot (in the case of debugging/ssystem
                > >design)..
                > >
                > >Hm.. there is also a space issue too.. I like the rj11/rj45 because it
                saves
                > >space.
                > >
                > >Another issue is.. it will be a little bit cheaper (?) to go the
                rj11/rj45
                > >way..
                > >
                > >Hmm.. I like it! I am definitly going to use it in my next design..
                > >
                > >How many wires are in rj45?
                > >
                > >thanks-Lee
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >----- Original Message -----
                > >From: "John M" <john@...>
                > >To: <SeattleRobotics@yahoogroups.com>
                > >Sent: Monday, January 03, 2005 4:34 PM
                > >Subject: RE: [SeattleRobotics] Suggestions for data bus wiring?
                > >
                > >
                > > >
                > > > I've standardized with talking I2C (TWI) between most of my boards.
                My
                > > > cabling now consists almost entirely of 6-conductor RJ-11 (phone
                plugs).
                > > > It
                > > > is astoundingly easy to create nice clean (and cheap) cables, and the
                > > > connectors are more secure than a lot of the molex stuff.
                > > >
                > > > The lines are (SCL, VCC, GND, SDA, INT, RESERVED), where INT is an
                > > > optional
                > > > interrupt pin so TWI slaves can alert the master when they need to be
                > > > serviced.
                > > >
                > > > Since I'm sending power through the same cable, many of my peripheral
                > > > boards
                > > > need no other external connections (other than application-specific,
                such
                > > > as
                > > > sensor leads).
                > > >
                > > > My main issue with this is that I have to put the custom socket on the
                > > > boards, or create an adapter; in practice it's not a big deal.
                > > >
                > > > I was thinking about going with RJ-45 (Ethernet cabling), but wanted
                to
                > > > keep
                > > > things small. If I start running into signal problems, I may end up
                > > > having
                > > > to switch.
                > > >
                > > > Anybody else going this route?
                > > >
                > > >
                > > >
                > > >> -----Original Message-----
                > > >> From: Jay Beavers [mailto:Jay_C_Beavers@...]
                > > >> Sent: Monday, January 03, 2005 12:16 PM
                > > >> To: SeattleRobotics@yahoogroups.com
                > > >> Subject: [SeattleRobotics] Suggestions for data bus wiring?
                > > >>
                > > >>
                > > >> OK, I'm constructing my first "multi-layered" robot. One new problem
                I'm
                > > >> going to have to deal with is the best way to move signals between
                > > >> layers.
                > > >> For instance, my layering looks like:
                > > >>
                > > >>
                > > >> Level 4: Top
                > > >> -----------------------------------
                > > >> Level 3: Sensors
                > > >> -----------------------------------
                > > >> Level 2: Computer
                > > >> -----------------------------------
                > > >> Level 1: Batteries & Drive Train
                > > >>
                > > >> I'm going to need to move power from Level 1 to Levels 2 & 3. This
                is
                > > >> easy enough since it's really only three wires -- ground, unregulated
                > > >> battery voltage, & 5V regulated.
                > > >>
                > > >> However, sensors & I/O are going to be more complex. For instance, I
                > > >> need
                > > >> to move 4x USB & 1 RS-232 between the Level 2 Computer & Level 3
                Sensors
                > > >> layers. I may be putting a couple of sensors on the top of the robot
                for
                > > >> interference reasons (USB GPS & I2C compass come to mind). I'd like
                each
                > > >> layer to easily attach/detach from each other with preferably only
                two
                > > >> plugs -- one power & one i/o cable.
                > > >>
                > > >> I've seen some folks use ribbon cables -- like those used in computer
                > > >> hard
                > > >> drives & floppy drives -- but I have no experience or tools for
                making
                > > >> custom ribbon cables & I don't know how to "break out" the individual
                > > >> wires easily without going through the process of creating a custom
                > > >> circuit board with headers.
                > > >>
                > > >> What would people recommend for this and can I get the parts & tools
                from
                > > >> Fry's or should I order them from Jameco & DigiKey? Am I reasonably
                safe
                > > >> in splicing a couple of USB signal wires onto one ribbon cable along
                with
                > > >> RS-232 & perhaps some I2C and simple 5V analog/digital sensor wires
                given
                > > >> the fact that the total wire length will only be around two feet or
                will
                > > >> interference play havok with me?
                > > >>
                > > >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                > > >>
                > > >>
                > > >>
                > > >> Visit the SRS Website at http://www.seattlerobotics.org
                > > >> Yahoo! Groups Links
                > > >>
                > > >>
                > > >>
                > > >>
                > > >>
                > > >
                > > >
                > > >
                > > >
                > > > Visit the SRS Website at http://www.seattlerobotics.org
                > > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                > > >
                > > >
                > > >
                > > >
                > > >
                > > >
                > > >
                > > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >Visit the SRS Website at http://www.seattlerobotics.org
                > >Yahoo! Groups Links
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                >
                > JIMc
                > x22661
                > National Ignition Facility
                >
                >
                >
                >
                > Visit the SRS Website at http://www.seattlerobotics.org
                > Yahoo! Groups Links
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
              • Susan M
                This is a great idea. And how did you solve the problem of installing the socket on a PC board? The spacing is not .1 ? I took a look just now at an old pc
                Message 7 of 20 , Jan 4, 2005
                • 0 Attachment
                  This is a great idea.

                  And how did you solve the problem of installing the socket on a PC
                  board? The spacing is not .1 ?

                  I took a look just now at an old pc board from a phone that was hit by
                  lightning. The connector there (the jack) is hot glued as well as
                  soldered it looks like. But only 2 of the pins inside really exist even
                  though it is a 6 pin jack. I'm wondering about salvage.

                  Will you share your sources for jacks and plugs? Who has the best
                  deal? We just took a look at Mouser, allelec, and digi-key, are there
                  others?

                  My husband just told me he ordered me a few of some type of 3 or 4-pin
                  surplus extension or connecting cables for 25c each, from MCM's catalog
                  that came in. For stereos? I should be able to cut them in two and
                  solder one end of each half, the other end has a polarized connector it
                  looked like to me but will fit on .1 male headers on a pc board.

                  I really feel the need to make the wiring harnesses quick disconnect,
                  and the parts of the robots for class interchangeable and modular, so if
                  one breaks we can swap sections off between bots. And also to not have
                  the kids putting so much wear and tear on the connections.

                  I guess lots of this we're just going to have to learn by trial and
                  error and having things break. That's normally fine, but the kids lose
                  some confidence if you're continually remodeling before you've even
                  built, lol. It starts feeling directionless, like the teacher doesn't
                  have a clue. (All too true, some of the time.)

                  Thanks! Susan
                • Lee Leathers
                  Anyone know the max voltage/amps that can be run over rj45 (and rj11)? thanks-Lee ... From: Kenneth Maxon To:
                  Message 8 of 20 , Jan 4, 2005
                  • 0 Attachment
                    Anyone know the max voltage/amps that can be run over rj45 (and rj11)?

                    thanks-Lee



                    ----- Original Message -----
                    From: "Kenneth Maxon" <kmaxon@...>
                    To: <SeattleRobotics@yahoogroups.com>
                    Sent: Tuesday, January 04, 2005 11:23 PM
                    Subject: Re: [SeattleRobotics] Suggestions for data bus wiring?


                    >
                    >
                    > If you are looking for more than 8 conductors... An RJ-48 connector is
                    > the
                    > same as a RJ-45 connector, but has 10 conductors and is ever so slightly
                    > wider.
                    >
                    > -Kenneth
                    > (Unit 3's in trouble and it's scared out of its wits) -Geddy Lee
                    > ----- Original Message -----
                    > From: "Jim McBride" <mcbride7@...>
                    > To: <SeattleRobotics@yahoogroups.com>
                    > Sent: Tuesday, January 04, 2005 1:28 PM
                    > Subject: Re: [SeattleRobotics] Suggestions for data bus wiring?
                    >
                    >
                    >>
                    >> There are 8 wires.
                    >>
                    >> At 04:19 PM 1/4/2005 -0500, you wrote:
                    >>
                    >> >Well, using the rj-11 makes the job look a lot better.. but is it
                    > actually
                    >> >better (than using screw down terminals?).. I could definitily see HUGE
                    > time
                    >> >savings when you are having to use modular board designs.. or having to
                    > take
                    >> >these boards away from each other a lot (in the case of
                    >> >debugging/ssystem
                    >> >design)..
                    >> >
                    >> >Hm.. there is also a space issue too.. I like the rj11/rj45 because it
                    > saves
                    >> >space.
                    >> >
                    >> >Another issue is.. it will be a little bit cheaper (?) to go the
                    > rj11/rj45
                    >> >way..
                    >> >
                    >> >Hmm.. I like it! I am definitly going to use it in my next design..
                    >> >
                    >> >How many wires are in rj45?
                    >> >
                    >> >thanks-Lee
                    >> >
                    >> >
                    >> >
                    >> >
                    >> >----- Original Message -----
                    >> >From: "John M" <john@...>
                    >> >To: <SeattleRobotics@yahoogroups.com>
                    >> >Sent: Monday, January 03, 2005 4:34 PM
                    >> >Subject: RE: [SeattleRobotics] Suggestions for data bus wiring?
                    >> >
                    >> >
                    >> > >
                    >> > > I've standardized with talking I2C (TWI) between most of my boards.
                    > My
                    >> > > cabling now consists almost entirely of 6-conductor RJ-11 (phone
                    > plugs).
                    >> > > It
                    >> > > is astoundingly easy to create nice clean (and cheap) cables, and the
                    >> > > connectors are more secure than a lot of the molex stuff.
                    >> > >
                    >> > > The lines are (SCL, VCC, GND, SDA, INT, RESERVED), where INT is an
                    >> > > optional
                    >> > > interrupt pin so TWI slaves can alert the master when they need to be
                    >> > > serviced.
                    >> > >
                    >> > > Since I'm sending power through the same cable, many of my peripheral
                    >> > > boards
                    >> > > need no other external connections (other than application-specific,
                    > such
                    >> > > as
                    >> > > sensor leads).
                    >> > >
                    >> > > My main issue with this is that I have to put the custom socket on
                    >> > > the
                    >> > > boards, or create an adapter; in practice it's not a big deal.
                    >> > >
                    >> > > I was thinking about going with RJ-45 (Ethernet cabling), but wanted
                    > to
                    >> > > keep
                    >> > > things small. If I start running into signal problems, I may end up
                    >> > > having
                    >> > > to switch.
                    >> > >
                    >> > > Anybody else going this route?
                    >> > >
                    >> > >
                    >> > >
                    >> > >> -----Original Message-----
                    >> > >> From: Jay Beavers [mailto:Jay_C_Beavers@...]
                    >> > >> Sent: Monday, January 03, 2005 12:16 PM
                    >> > >> To: SeattleRobotics@yahoogroups.com
                    >> > >> Subject: [SeattleRobotics] Suggestions for data bus wiring?
                    >> > >>
                    >> > >>
                    >> > >> OK, I'm constructing my first "multi-layered" robot. One new
                    >> > >> problem
                    > I'm
                    >> > >> going to have to deal with is the best way to move signals between
                    >> > >> layers.
                    >> > >> For instance, my layering looks like:
                    >> > >>
                    >> > >>
                    >> > >> Level 4: Top
                    >> > >> -----------------------------------
                    >> > >> Level 3: Sensors
                    >> > >> -----------------------------------
                    >> > >> Level 2: Computer
                    >> > >> -----------------------------------
                    >> > >> Level 1: Batteries & Drive Train
                    >> > >>
                    >> > >> I'm going to need to move power from Level 1 to Levels 2 & 3. This
                    > is
                    >> > >> easy enough since it's really only three wires -- ground,
                    >> > >> unregulated
                    >> > >> battery voltage, & 5V regulated.
                    >> > >>
                    >> > >> However, sensors & I/O are going to be more complex. For instance,
                    >> > >> I
                    >> > >> need
                    >> > >> to move 4x USB & 1 RS-232 between the Level 2 Computer & Level 3
                    > Sensors
                    >> > >> layers. I may be putting a couple of sensors on the top of the
                    >> > >> robot
                    > for
                    >> > >> interference reasons (USB GPS & I2C compass come to mind). I'd like
                    > each
                    >> > >> layer to easily attach/detach from each other with preferably only
                    > two
                    >> > >> plugs -- one power & one i/o cable.
                    >> > >>
                    >> > >> I've seen some folks use ribbon cables -- like those used in
                    >> > >> computer
                    >> > >> hard
                    >> > >> drives & floppy drives -- but I have no experience or tools for
                    > making
                    >> > >> custom ribbon cables & I don't know how to "break out" the
                    >> > >> individual
                    >> > >> wires easily without going through the process of creating a custom
                    >> > >> circuit board with headers.
                    >> > >>
                    >> > >> What would people recommend for this and can I get the parts & tools
                    > from
                    >> > >> Fry's or should I order them from Jameco & DigiKey? Am I reasonably
                    > safe
                    >> > >> in splicing a couple of USB signal wires onto one ribbon cable along
                    > with
                    >> > >> RS-232 & perhaps some I2C and simple 5V analog/digital sensor wires
                    > given
                    >> > >> the fact that the total wire length will only be around two feet or
                    > will
                    >> > >> interference play havok with me?
                    >> > >>
                    >> > >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    >> > >>
                    >> > >>
                    >> > >>
                    >> > >> Visit the SRS Website at http://www.seattlerobotics.org
                    >> > >> Yahoo! Groups Links
                    >> > >>
                    >> > >>
                    >> > >>
                    >> > >>
                    >> > >>
                    >> > >
                    >> > >
                    >> > >
                    >> > >
                    >> > > Visit the SRS Website at http://www.seattlerobotics.org
                    >> > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                    >> > >
                    >> > >
                    >> > >
                    >> > >
                    >> > >
                    >> > >
                    >> > >
                    >> > >
                    >> >
                    >> >
                    >> >
                    >> >
                    >> >Visit the SRS Website at http://www.seattlerobotics.org
                    >> >Yahoo! Groups Links
                    >> >
                    >> >
                    >> >
                    >> >
                    >>
                    >> JIMc
                    >> x22661
                    >> National Ignition Facility
                    >>
                    >>
                    >>
                    >>
                    >> Visit the SRS Website at http://www.seattlerobotics.org
                    >> Yahoo! Groups Links
                    >>
                    >>
                    >>
                    >>
                    >>
                    >>
                    >>
                    >>
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > Visit the SRS Website at http://www.seattlerobotics.org
                    > Yahoo! Groups Links
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                  • Kenneth Maxon
                    The question has many answers depending on what you are going to buy. I get the idea that Susan is going to buy the cheapest thing that money can find based
                    Message 9 of 20 , Jan 4, 2005
                    • 0 Attachment
                      The question has many answers depending on what you are going to buy. I get
                      the idea that Susan is going to buy the cheapest thing that money can find
                      based on her circumstances. That would be a zinc/tin coated round wire
                      contact stamped / insert part. These have much higher contact resistance,
                      lower mating cycle counts and of course lower current ratings. If one were
                      designing these into a product that needed higher reliability / better
                      characteristics, one would go with a gold deposition flat formed pin which
                      has a much higher surface area of contact, lower resistance, and of course
                      higher current ratings. The later can handle 1A-DC. Some manufacturers
                      advertise higher ratings than this, but extensive use of these connectors
                      over 10yrs in production level products demonstrates this not to be true.

                      -Kenneth
                      (Unit 3's in trouble and it's scared out of its wits) -Geddy Lee
                      ----- Original Message -----
                      From: "Lee Leathers" <fredit@...>
                      To: <SeattleRobotics@yahoogroups.com>
                      Sent: Tuesday, January 04, 2005 8:58 PM
                      Subject: Re: [SeattleRobotics] Suggestions for data bus wiring?


                      >
                      > Anyone know the max voltage/amps that can be run over rj45 (and rj11)?
                      >
                      > thanks-Lee
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > ----- Original Message -----
                      > From: "Kenneth Maxon" <kmaxon@...>
                      > To: <SeattleRobotics@yahoogroups.com>
                      > Sent: Tuesday, January 04, 2005 11:23 PM
                      > Subject: Re: [SeattleRobotics] Suggestions for data bus wiring?
                      >
                      >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > > If you are looking for more than 8 conductors... An RJ-48 connector is
                      > > the
                      > > same as a RJ-45 connector, but has 10 conductors and is ever so slightly
                      > > wider.
                      > >
                      > > -Kenneth
                      > > (Unit 3's in trouble and it's scared out of its wits) -Geddy Lee
                      > > ----- Original Message -----
                      > > From: "Jim McBride" <mcbride7@...>
                      > > To: <SeattleRobotics@yahoogroups.com>
                      > > Sent: Tuesday, January 04, 2005 1:28 PM
                      > > Subject: Re: [SeattleRobotics] Suggestions for data bus wiring?
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >>
                      > >> There are 8 wires.
                      > >>
                      > >> At 04:19 PM 1/4/2005 -0500, you wrote:
                      > >>
                      > >> >Well, using the rj-11 makes the job look a lot better.. but is it
                      > > actually
                      > >> >better (than using screw down terminals?).. I could definitily see
                      HUGE
                      > > time
                      > >> >savings when you are having to use modular board designs.. or having
                      to
                      > > take
                      > >> >these boards away from each other a lot (in the case of
                      > >> >debugging/ssystem
                      > >> >design)..
                      > >> >
                      > >> >Hm.. there is also a space issue too.. I like the rj11/rj45 because it
                      > > saves
                      > >> >space.
                      > >> >
                      > >> >Another issue is.. it will be a little bit cheaper (?) to go the
                      > > rj11/rj45
                      > >> >way..
                      > >> >
                      > >> >Hmm.. I like it! I am definitly going to use it in my next design..
                      > >> >
                      > >> >How many wires are in rj45?
                      > >> >
                      > >> >thanks-Lee
                      > >> >
                      > >> >
                      > >> >
                      > >> >
                      > >> >----- Original Message -----
                      > >> >From: "John M" <john@...>
                      > >> >To: <SeattleRobotics@yahoogroups.com>
                      > >> >Sent: Monday, January 03, 2005 4:34 PM
                      > >> >Subject: RE: [SeattleRobotics] Suggestions for data bus wiring?
                      > >> >
                      > >> >
                      > >> > >
                      > >> > > I've standardized with talking I2C (TWI) between most of my boards.
                      > > My
                      > >> > > cabling now consists almost entirely of 6-conductor RJ-11 (phone
                      > > plugs).
                      > >> > > It
                      > >> > > is astoundingly easy to create nice clean (and cheap) cables, and
                      the
                      > >> > > connectors are more secure than a lot of the molex stuff.
                      > >> > >
                      > >> > > The lines are (SCL, VCC, GND, SDA, INT, RESERVED), where INT is an
                      > >> > > optional
                      > >> > > interrupt pin so TWI slaves can alert the master when they need to
                      be
                      > >> > > serviced.
                      > >> > >
                      > >> > > Since I'm sending power through the same cable, many of my
                      peripheral
                      > >> > > boards
                      > >> > > need no other external connections (other than
                      application-specific,
                      > > such
                      > >> > > as
                      > >> > > sensor leads).
                      > >> > >
                      > >> > > My main issue with this is that I have to put the custom socket on
                      > >> > > the
                      > >> > > boards, or create an adapter; in practice it's not a big deal.
                      > >> > >
                      > >> > > I was thinking about going with RJ-45 (Ethernet cabling), but
                      wanted
                      > > to
                      > >> > > keep
                      > >> > > things small. If I start running into signal problems, I may end
                      up
                      > >> > > having
                      > >> > > to switch.
                      > >> > >
                      > >> > > Anybody else going this route?
                      > >> > >
                      > >> > >
                      > >> > >
                      > >> > >> -----Original Message-----
                      > >> > >> From: Jay Beavers [mailto:Jay_C_Beavers@...]
                      > >> > >> Sent: Monday, January 03, 2005 12:16 PM
                      > >> > >> To: SeattleRobotics@yahoogroups.com
                      > >> > >> Subject: [SeattleRobotics] Suggestions for data bus wiring?
                      > >> > >>
                      > >> > >>
                      > >> > >> OK, I'm constructing my first "multi-layered" robot. One new
                      > >> > >> problem
                      > > I'm
                      > >> > >> going to have to deal with is the best way to move signals between
                      > >> > >> layers.
                      > >> > >> For instance, my layering looks like:
                      > >> > >>
                      > >> > >>
                      > >> > >> Level 4: Top
                      > >> > >> -----------------------------------
                      > >> > >> Level 3: Sensors
                      > >> > >> -----------------------------------
                      > >> > >> Level 2: Computer
                      > >> > >> -----------------------------------
                      > >> > >> Level 1: Batteries & Drive Train
                      > >> > >>
                      > >> > >> I'm going to need to move power from Level 1 to Levels 2 & 3.
                      This
                      > > is
                      > >> > >> easy enough since it's really only three wires -- ground,
                      > >> > >> unregulated
                      > >> > >> battery voltage, & 5V regulated.
                      > >> > >>
                      > >> > >> However, sensors & I/O are going to be more complex. For
                      instance,
                      > >> > >> I
                      > >> > >> need
                      > >> > >> to move 4x USB & 1 RS-232 between the Level 2 Computer & Level 3
                      > > Sensors
                      > >> > >> layers. I may be putting a couple of sensors on the top of the
                      > >> > >> robot
                      > > for
                      > >> > >> interference reasons (USB GPS & I2C compass come to mind). I'd
                      like
                      > > each
                      > >> > >> layer to easily attach/detach from each other with preferably only
                      > > two
                      > >> > >> plugs -- one power & one i/o cable.
                      > >> > >>
                      > >> > >> I've seen some folks use ribbon cables -- like those used in
                      > >> > >> computer
                      > >> > >> hard
                      > >> > >> drives & floppy drives -- but I have no experience or tools for
                      > > making
                      > >> > >> custom ribbon cables & I don't know how to "break out" the
                      > >> > >> individual
                      > >> > >> wires easily without going through the process of creating a
                      custom
                      > >> > >> circuit board with headers.
                      > >> > >>
                      > >> > >> What would people recommend for this and can I get the parts &
                      tools
                      > > from
                      > >> > >> Fry's or should I order them from Jameco & DigiKey? Am I
                      reasonably
                      > > safe
                      > >> > >> in splicing a couple of USB signal wires onto one ribbon cable
                      along
                      > > with
                      > >> > >> RS-232 & perhaps some I2C and simple 5V analog/digital sensor
                      wires
                      > > given
                      > >> > >> the fact that the total wire length will only be around two feet
                      or
                      > > will
                      > >> > >> interference play havok with me?
                      > >> > >>
                      > >> > >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      > >> > >>
                      > >> > >>
                      > >> > >>
                      > >> > >> Visit the SRS Website at http://www.seattlerobotics.org
                      > >> > >> Yahoo! Groups Links
                      > >> > >>
                      > >> > >>
                      > >> > >>
                      > >> > >>
                      > >> > >>
                      > >> > >
                      > >> > >
                      > >> > >
                      > >> > >
                      > >> > > Visit the SRS Website at http://www.seattlerobotics.org
                      > >> > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                      > >> > >
                      > >> > >
                      > >> > >
                      > >> > >
                      > >> > >
                      > >> > >
                      > >> > >
                      > >> > >
                      > >> >
                      > >> >
                      > >> >
                      > >> >
                      > >> >Visit the SRS Website at http://www.seattlerobotics.org
                      > >> >Yahoo! Groups Links
                      > >> >
                      > >> >
                      > >> >
                      > >> >
                      > >>
                      > >> JIMc
                      > >> x22661
                      > >> National Ignition Facility
                      > >>
                      > >>
                      > >>
                      > >>
                      > >> Visit the SRS Website at http://www.seattlerobotics.org
                      > >> Yahoo! Groups Links
                      > >>
                      > >>
                      > >>
                      > >>
                      > >>
                      > >>
                      > >>
                      > >>
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > > Visit the SRS Website at http://www.seattlerobotics.org
                      > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > Visit the SRS Website at http://www.seattlerobotics.org
                      > Yahoo! Groups Links
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                    • John M
                      Lee, Google Power over Ethernet . There s a new standard coming out (e.g. see http://www.comnews.com/stories/articles/0704/0704voice_networks2.htm). I
                      Message 10 of 20 , Jan 4, 2005
                      • 0 Attachment
                        Lee, Google "Power over Ethernet". There's a new standard coming out (e.g.
                        see http://www.comnews.com/stories/articles/0704/0704voice_networks2.htm).
                        I haven't read up on it, but it looks like they're stating up to
                        15.4watts@48volts. I expect that really depends on how long your runs are.
                        Also, that's just the standard...for custom stuff, you might get away with
                        significantly more.

                        Kenneth, it's an arms race..I was tempted to go with rj45 since it was "ever
                        so slightly wider" than rj11/rj12 :)

                        > -----Original Message-----
                        > From: Lee Leathers [mailto:fredit@...]
                        > Sent: Tuesday, January 04, 2005 8:59 PM
                        > To: SeattleRobotics@yahoogroups.com
                        > Subject: Re: [SeattleRobotics] Suggestions for data bus wiring?
                        >
                        >
                        > Anyone know the max voltage/amps that can be run over rj45 (and rj11)?
                        >
                        > thanks-Lee
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > ----- Original Message -----
                        > From: "Kenneth Maxon" <kmaxon@...>
                        > To: <SeattleRobotics@yahoogroups.com>
                        > Sent: Tuesday, January 04, 2005 11:23 PM
                        > Subject: Re: [SeattleRobotics] Suggestions for data bus wiring?
                        >
                        >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > > If you are looking for more than 8 conductors... An RJ-48 connector is
                        > > the
                        > > same as a RJ-45 connector, but has 10 conductors and is ever so slightly
                        > > wider.
                        > >
                        > > -Kenneth
                        > > (Unit 3's in trouble and it's scared out of its wits) -Geddy Lee
                      • John M
                        I just bought everything from Digikey. I got a few different colors of cabling just to make things look cool :) The pins on the jacks will bend to fit
                        Message 11 of 20 , Jan 4, 2005
                        • 0 Attachment
                          I just bought everything from Digikey. I got a few different colors of
                          cabling just to make things look cool :)

                          The pins on the jacks will bend to fit standard .1" spacing. I tossed 2
                          jacks and a cable into the box I'm sending you so you can play around with
                          them.

                          > -----Original Message-----
                          > From: Susan M [mailto:slmccain@...]
                          > Sent: Tuesday, January 04, 2005 8:49 PM
                          > To: SeattleRobotics@yahoogroups.com
                          > Subject: Re: [SeattleRobotics] Suggestions for data bus wiring?
                          >
                          >
                          > This is a great idea.
                          >
                          > And how did you solve the problem of installing the socket on a PC
                          > board? The spacing is not .1 ?
                          >
                          > I took a look just now at an old pc board from a phone that was hit by
                          > lightning. The connector there (the jack) is hot glued as well as
                          > soldered it looks like. But only 2 of the pins inside really exist even
                          > though it is a 6 pin jack. I'm wondering about salvage.
                          >
                          > Will you share your sources for jacks and plugs? Who has the best
                          > deal? We just took a look at Mouser, allelec, and digi-key, are there
                          > others?
                          >
                          > My husband just told me he ordered me a few of some type of 3 or 4-pin
                          > surplus extension or connecting cables for 25c each, from MCM's catalog
                          > that came in. For stereos? I should be able to cut them in two and
                          > solder one end of each half, the other end has a polarized connector it
                          > looked like to me but will fit on .1 male headers on a pc board.
                          >
                          > I really feel the need to make the wiring harnesses quick disconnect,
                          > and the parts of the robots for class interchangeable and modular, so if
                          > one breaks we can swap sections off between bots. And also to not have
                          > the kids putting so much wear and tear on the connections.
                          >
                          > I guess lots of this we're just going to have to learn by trial and
                          > error and having things break. That's normally fine, but the kids lose
                          > some confidence if you're continually remodeling before you've even
                          > built, lol. It starts feeling directionless, like the teacher doesn't
                          > have a clue. (All too true, some of the time.)
                          >
                          > Thanks! Susan
                          >
                          >
                          > Visit the SRS Website at http://www.seattlerobotics.org
                          > Yahoo! Groups Links
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                        • Lee Leathers
                          hmm.. I found this info if anyone else cares.. First, CAT5e is rated to 350M and CAT6 is rated to 550M or 1000M depending on what your source is. Second, CAT5e
                          Message 12 of 20 , Jan 5, 2005
                          • 0 Attachment
                            hmm.. I found this info if anyone else cares..

                            First, CAT5e is rated to 350M and CAT6 is rated to 550M or 1000M depending
                            on what your source is. Second, CAT5e is built with a 24-gauge wire whereas
                            most CAT6 cabling is built with 23-gauge conductor wire. Finally, CAT6 is
                            supposed to have improved performance and have greater immunity from noise
                            and crosstalk.
                            Why choose CAT6 over CAT5e? Data rates continue to climb so upgrades are
                            inevitable. Just as in the early 1990's industry moved from Cat3 to CAT5
                            expect tomorrow's networks to migrate toward CAT6. It is expensive to
                            install cable so many organizations will decide to spend a little more money
                            now to avoid a shorter cable lifespan.





                            And then you can use this chart to compute guage wire and how many mA it can
                            handle and volts and yada and yada

                            http://www.powerstream.com/Wire_Size.htm

                            With those specs, it seems like cat6 can do 0.729amps and cat5e can do
                            0.577amps



                            hope that helps

                            Lee







                            ----- Original Message -----
                            From: "Kenneth Maxon" <kmaxon@...>
                            To: <SeattleRobotics@yahoogroups.com>
                            Sent: Wednesday, January 05, 2005 12:30 AM
                            Subject: Re: [SeattleRobotics] Suggestions for data bus wiring?


                            >
                            > The question has many answers depending on what you are going to buy. I
                            > get
                            > the idea that Susan is going to buy the cheapest thing that money can find
                            > based on her circumstances. That would be a zinc/tin coated round wire
                            > contact stamped / insert part. These have much higher contact resistance,
                            > lower mating cycle counts and of course lower current ratings. If one
                            > were
                            > designing these into a product that needed higher reliability / better
                            > characteristics, one would go with a gold deposition flat formed pin which
                            > has a much higher surface area of contact, lower resistance, and of course
                            > higher current ratings. The later can handle 1A-DC. Some manufacturers
                            > advertise higher ratings than this, but extensive use of these connectors
                            > over 10yrs in production level products demonstrates this not to be true.
                            >
                            > -Kenneth
                            > (Unit 3's in trouble and it's scared out of its wits) -Geddy Lee
                            > ----- Original Message -----
                            > From: "Lee Leathers" <fredit@...>
                            > To: <SeattleRobotics@yahoogroups.com>
                            > Sent: Tuesday, January 04, 2005 8:58 PM
                            > Subject: Re: [SeattleRobotics] Suggestions for data bus wiring?
                            >
                            >
                            >>
                            >> Anyone know the max voltage/amps that can be run over rj45 (and rj11)?
                            >>
                            >> thanks-Lee
                            >>
                            >>
                            >>
                            >> ----- Original Message -----
                            >> From: "Kenneth Maxon" <kmaxon@...>
                            >> To: <SeattleRobotics@yahoogroups.com>
                            >> Sent: Tuesday, January 04, 2005 11:23 PM
                            >> Subject: Re: [SeattleRobotics] Suggestions for data bus wiring?
                            >>
                            >>
                            >> >
                            >> >
                            >> > If you are looking for more than 8 conductors... An RJ-48 connector is
                            >> > the
                            >> > same as a RJ-45 connector, but has 10 conductors and is ever so
                            >> > slightly
                            >> > wider.
                            >> >
                            >> > -Kenneth
                            >> > (Unit 3's in trouble and it's scared out of its wits) -Geddy Lee
                            >> > ----- Original Message -----
                            >> > From: "Jim McBride" <mcbride7@...>
                            >> > To: <SeattleRobotics@yahoogroups.com>
                            >> > Sent: Tuesday, January 04, 2005 1:28 PM
                            >> > Subject: Re: [SeattleRobotics] Suggestions for data bus wiring?
                            >> >
                            >> >
                            >> >>
                            >> >> There are 8 wires.
                            >> >>
                            >> >> At 04:19 PM 1/4/2005 -0500, you wrote:
                            >> >>
                            >> >> >Well, using the rj-11 makes the job look a lot better.. but is it
                            >> > actually
                            >> >> >better (than using screw down terminals?).. I could definitily see
                            > HUGE
                            >> > time
                            >> >> >savings when you are having to use modular board designs.. or having
                            > to
                            >> > take
                            >> >> >these boards away from each other a lot (in the case of
                            >> >> >debugging/ssystem
                            >> >> >design)..
                            >> >> >
                            >> >> >Hm.. there is also a space issue too.. I like the rj11/rj45 because
                            >> >> >it
                            >> > saves
                            >> >> >space.
                            >> >> >
                            >> >> >Another issue is.. it will be a little bit cheaper (?) to go the
                            >> > rj11/rj45
                            >> >> >way..
                            >> >> >
                            >> >> >Hmm.. I like it! I am definitly going to use it in my next design..
                            >> >> >
                            >> >> >How many wires are in rj45?
                            >> >> >
                            >> >> >thanks-Lee
                            >> >> >
                            >> >> >
                            >> >> >
                            >> >> >
                            >> >> >----- Original Message -----
                            >> >> >From: "John M" <john@...>
                            >> >> >To: <SeattleRobotics@yahoogroups.com>
                            >> >> >Sent: Monday, January 03, 2005 4:34 PM
                            >> >> >Subject: RE: [SeattleRobotics] Suggestions for data bus wiring?
                            >> >> >
                            >> >> >
                            >> >> > >
                            >> >> > > I've standardized with talking I2C (TWI) between most of my
                            >> >> > > boards.
                            >> > My
                            >> >> > > cabling now consists almost entirely of 6-conductor RJ-11 (phone
                            >> > plugs).
                            >> >> > > It
                            >> >> > > is astoundingly easy to create nice clean (and cheap) cables, and
                            > the
                            >> >> > > connectors are more secure than a lot of the molex stuff.
                            >> >> > >
                            >> >> > > The lines are (SCL, VCC, GND, SDA, INT, RESERVED), where INT is an
                            >> >> > > optional
                            >> >> > > interrupt pin so TWI slaves can alert the master when they need to
                            > be
                            >> >> > > serviced.
                            >> >> > >
                            >> >> > > Since I'm sending power through the same cable, many of my
                            > peripheral
                            >> >> > > boards
                            >> >> > > need no other external connections (other than
                            > application-specific,
                            >> > such
                            >> >> > > as
                            >> >> > > sensor leads).
                            >> >> > >
                            >> >> > > My main issue with this is that I have to put the custom socket on
                            >> >> > > the
                            >> >> > > boards, or create an adapter; in practice it's not a big deal.
                            >> >> > >
                            >> >> > > I was thinking about going with RJ-45 (Ethernet cabling), but
                            > wanted
                            >> > to
                            >> >> > > keep
                            >> >> > > things small. If I start running into signal problems, I may end
                            > up
                            >> >> > > having
                            >> >> > > to switch.
                            >> >> > >
                            >> >> > > Anybody else going this route?
                            >> >> > >
                            >> >> > >
                            >> >> > >
                            >> >> > >> -----Original Message-----
                            >> >> > >> From: Jay Beavers [mailto:Jay_C_Beavers@...]
                            >> >> > >> Sent: Monday, January 03, 2005 12:16 PM
                            >> >> > >> To: SeattleRobotics@yahoogroups.com
                            >> >> > >> Subject: [SeattleRobotics] Suggestions for data bus wiring?
                            >> >> > >>
                            >> >> > >>
                            >> >> > >> OK, I'm constructing my first "multi-layered" robot. One new
                            >> >> > >> problem
                            >> > I'm
                            >> >> > >> going to have to deal with is the best way to move signals
                            >> >> > >> between
                            >> >> > >> layers.
                            >> >> > >> For instance, my layering looks like:
                            >> >> > >>
                            >> >> > >>
                            >> >> > >> Level 4: Top
                            >> >> > >> -----------------------------------
                            >> >> > >> Level 3: Sensors
                            >> >> > >> -----------------------------------
                            >> >> > >> Level 2: Computer
                            >> >> > >> -----------------------------------
                            >> >> > >> Level 1: Batteries & Drive Train
                            >> >> > >>
                            >> >> > >> I'm going to need to move power from Level 1 to Levels 2 & 3.
                            > This
                            >> > is
                            >> >> > >> easy enough since it's really only three wires -- ground,
                            >> >> > >> unregulated
                            >> >> > >> battery voltage, & 5V regulated.
                            >> >> > >>
                            >> >> > >> However, sensors & I/O are going to be more complex. For
                            > instance,
                            >> >> > >> I
                            >> >> > >> need
                            >> >> > >> to move 4x USB & 1 RS-232 between the Level 2 Computer & Level 3
                            >> > Sensors
                            >> >> > >> layers. I may be putting a couple of sensors on the top of the
                            >> >> > >> robot
                            >> > for
                            >> >> > >> interference reasons (USB GPS & I2C compass come to mind). I'd
                            > like
                            >> > each
                            >> >> > >> layer to easily attach/detach from each other with preferably
                            >> >> > >> only
                            >> > two
                            >> >> > >> plugs -- one power & one i/o cable.
                            >> >> > >>
                            >> >> > >> I've seen some folks use ribbon cables -- like those used in
                            >> >> > >> computer
                            >> >> > >> hard
                            >> >> > >> drives & floppy drives -- but I have no experience or tools for
                            >> > making
                            >> >> > >> custom ribbon cables & I don't know how to "break out" the
                            >> >> > >> individual
                            >> >> > >> wires easily without going through the process of creating a
                            > custom
                            >> >> > >> circuit board with headers.
                            >> >> > >>
                            >> >> > >> What would people recommend for this and can I get the parts &
                            > tools
                            >> > from
                            >> >> > >> Fry's or should I order them from Jameco & DigiKey? Am I
                            > reasonably
                            >> > safe
                            >> >> > >> in splicing a couple of USB signal wires onto one ribbon cable
                            > along
                            >> > with
                            >> >> > >> RS-232 & perhaps some I2C and simple 5V analog/digital sensor
                            > wires
                            >> > given
                            >> >> > >> the fact that the total wire length will only be around two feet
                            > or
                            >> > will
                            >> >> > >> interference play havok with me?
                            >> >> > >>
                            >> >> > >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                            >> >> > >>
                            >> >> > >>
                            >> >> > >>
                            >> >> > >> Visit the SRS Website at http://www.seattlerobotics.org
                            >> >> > >> Yahoo! Groups Links
                            >> >> > >>
                            >> >> > >>
                            >> >> > >>
                            >> >> > >>
                            >> >> > >>
                            >> >> > >
                            >> >> > >
                            >> >> > >
                            >> >> > >
                            >> >> > > Visit the SRS Website at http://www.seattlerobotics.org
                            >> >> > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                            >> >> > >
                            >> >> > >
                            >> >> > >
                            >> >> > >
                            >> >> > >
                            >> >> > >
                            >> >> > >
                            >> >> > >
                            >> >> >
                            >> >> >
                            >> >> >
                            >> >> >
                            >> >> >Visit the SRS Website at http://www.seattlerobotics.org
                            >> >> >Yahoo! Groups Links
                            >> >> >
                            >> >> >
                            >> >> >
                            >> >> >
                            >> >>
                            >> >> JIMc
                            >> >> x22661
                            >> >> National Ignition Facility
                            >> >>
                            >> >>
                            >> >>
                            >> >>
                            >> >> Visit the SRS Website at http://www.seattlerobotics.org
                            >> >> Yahoo! Groups Links
                            >> >>
                            >> >>
                            >> >>
                            >> >>
                            >> >>
                            >> >>
                            >> >>
                            >> >>
                            >> >
                            >> >
                            >> >
                            >> > Visit the SRS Website at http://www.seattlerobotics.org
                            >> > Yahoo! Groups Links
                            >> >
                            >> >
                            >> >
                            >> >
                            >> >
                            >> >
                            >> >
                            >>
                            >>
                            >>
                            >>
                            >> Visit the SRS Website at http://www.seattlerobotics.org
                            >> Yahoo! Groups Links
                            >>
                            >>
                            >>
                            >>
                            >>
                            >>
                            >>
                            >>
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > Visit the SRS Website at http://www.seattlerobotics.org
                            > Yahoo! Groups Links
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                          • Charles
                            Hello Lee, Tidbit of info I learned years ago.... 22 gauge solid copper wire has a FUSE rating of 22 amps. We used it for many years for alarm systems and
                            Message 13 of 20 , Jan 5, 2005
                            • 0 Attachment
                              Hello Lee,

                              Tidbit of info I learned years ago.... 22 gauge solid copper wire has
                              a FUSE rating of 22 amps. We used it for many years for alarm systems
                              and still do.

                              Best Regards
                              Charles cthurston@...

                              Wednesday, January 5, 2005, 3:07:09 AM, you wrote:

                              <snip>

                              LL> And then you can use this chart to compute guage wire and how many mA it can
                              LL> handle and volts and yada and yada

                              LL> http://www.powerstream.com/Wire_Size.htm

                              LL> With those specs, it seems like cat6 can do 0.729amps and cat5e can do
                              LL> 0.577amps



                              LL> hope that helps

                              LL> Lee
                            • Susan M
                              ... Well, it all depends. For last semester s project with the younger kids, it was essentially a throw away project. Just to learn circuits. We made the
                              Message 14 of 20 , Jan 5, 2005
                              • 0 Attachment
                                Kenneth Maxon wrote:
                                >
                                > The question has many answers depending on what you are going to buy. I get the idea that Susan is going to buy the cheapest thing that money can find based on her circumstances. That would be a zinc/tin coated round wire contact stamped / insert part. These have much higher contact resistance, lower mating cycle counts and of course lower current ratings.

                                Well, it all depends. For last semester's project with the younger
                                kids, it was essentially a throw away project. Just to learn circuits.
                                We made the circuit boards out of cardboard, lol. Costs were multiplied
                                by 25, and up front we spent most of the money on tools for class.

                                For this semester, I do care about durability and dependability very
                                much, as we want these class robots to last several semesters at least.
                                They will have to stand up to multiple teams of kids across classes.
                                They'll probably be modified and rebuilt a lot so I want modular
                                design.

                                The good side is we'll only have several class bots, I'm aiming for 4
                                decent ones if I can manage it. We'll want to start spending on
                                sensors.

                                The rj-11 type connectors, I was thinking, well they should be durable?
                                In my experience, I plug and unplug our phones and networks all the time
                                and almost never have a problem. My dh (husband, that is) has the crimp
                                tools and we probably have boxes of the plugs around if not the on-board
                                jacks, so I'm excited about this possible solution to our cabling
                                issue! The kids are used to this type connector as well. Does anyone
                                see any drawbacks?

                                On cost, I try not to be foolishly cheap. I've learned those lessons in
                                my life. But I really have to shop around and explore alternatives and
                                minimize costs wherever I can, save for the things that do matter. When
                                I go see one little plug and it's a dollar and multiply it out,
                                sometimes it's too much.

                                But like I might have said, I'm rather down to the wire, I have to make
                                my decisions on controller boards and chassis.

                                I have a saint of a husband who patiently helps me shop. But robotics
                                is not his field and getting down to my level... lol, just like here it
                                takes multiple attempts. I'm still puzzling over some answers to my
                                questions from months ago. And at chat, several members have been
                                patiently repeating the same answers, covering old ground because I
                                didn't absorb it the first time around. I so appreciate everyone's
                                help!

                                Susan
                              • tbrenke@verizon.net
                                you get a box of 25 of these for about $10 at an home depo. not the cheapest place to get them but up here in smoky point where I live, there is not much of a
                                Message 15 of 20 , Jan 5, 2005
                                • 0 Attachment
                                  you get a box of 25 of these for about $10 at an home depo.
                                  not the cheapest place to get them but up here in smoky point where I
                                  live, there is not much of a choice.

                                  Susan M wrote:

                                  >The rj-11 type connectors, I was thinking, well they should be durable?
                                  >In my experience, I plug and unplug our phones and networks all the time
                                  >and almost never have a problem. My dh (husband, that is) has the crimp
                                  >tools and we probably have boxes of the plugs around if not the on-board
                                  >jacks, so I'm excited about this possible solution to our cabling
                                  >issue! The kids are used to this type connector as well. Does anyone
                                  >see any drawbacks?
                                  >
                                  >On cost, I try not to be foolishly cheap. I've learned those lessons in
                                  >my life. But I really have to shop around and explore alternatives and
                                  >minimize costs wherever I can, save for the things that do matter. When
                                  >I go see one little plug and it's a dollar and multiply it out,
                                  >sometimes it's too much.
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                • Kenneth Maxon
                                  This is a common mistake. I ve seen many seasoned professionals that should know better make it. You re in fine company :) The problem with that chart is
                                  Message 16 of 20 , Jan 5, 2005
                                  • 0 Attachment
                                    This is a common mistake. I've seen many seasoned professionals that should
                                    know better make it. You're in fine company :)

                                    The problem with that chart is that it doesn't tell the whole story unless
                                    you very carefully interpret the data noting that the chart is designed for
                                    ampacity for power distribution.

                                    If you are running 120v-AC through a length of 24 gauge wire, then yes,
                                    that's a realistic number.

                                    There are two problems with that number in this situation. Here we are
                                    talking significantly lower voltages (5v, etc) and we are also talking DC
                                    current. At these voltages (and polarities), the current limit of the wire
                                    is not the issue as one other e-mail respondent has already indicated, it is
                                    quite high. (just to get an idea, play with the calculator at the bottom of
                                    the link you sent. 24gauge copper wire, 6vdc, 1A, 5ft only drops 0.3W which
                                    is insignificant given the surface area of the wire itself)

                                    What was missed in the analysis is that the limiting factor is NOT the wire.
                                    The limiting factor is in the mating methodology of the connector that
                                    establishes the current carrying capacity of the system
                                    (source+connector+wire+connector+destination).

                                    In cheap connectors the metal conductor is a round (cross section) of spring
                                    wire that is put into contact with another metal conductor round (cross
                                    section) under spring force from both sides. Due to the nature of the
                                    contact (that flexes heavily on both sides) and the materials used, this
                                    ends up being a single point type contact that is somewhat high impedance.
                                    It is more common to find this in RJ11s from old telephones, etc...

                                    In high quality connectors the metal contacts are flat (edge profile) not
                                    round and somewhat compliant so they have a bar shape (across the pin)
                                    contact area that significantly lowers the contact impedance.

                                    Hope this helps.

                                    -Kenneth
                                    (Unit 3's in trouble and it's scared out of its wits) -Geddy Lee
                                    ----- Original Message -----
                                    From: "Lee Leathers" <fredit@...>
                                    To: <SeattleRobotics@yahoogroups.com>
                                    Sent: Wednesday, January 05, 2005 12:07 AM
                                    Subject: Re: [SeattleRobotics] Suggestions for data bus wiring?


                                    >
                                    > hmm.. I found this info if anyone else cares..
                                    >
                                    > First, CAT5e is rated to 350M and CAT6 is rated to 550M or 1000M depending
                                    > on what your source is. Second, CAT5e is built with a 24-gauge wire
                                    whereas
                                    > most CAT6 cabling is built with 23-gauge conductor wire. Finally, CAT6 is
                                    > supposed to have improved performance and have greater immunity from noise
                                    > and crosstalk.
                                    > Why choose CAT6 over CAT5e? Data rates continue to climb so upgrades are
                                    > inevitable. Just as in the early 1990's industry moved from Cat3 to CAT5
                                    > expect tomorrow's networks to migrate toward CAT6. It is expensive to
                                    > install cable so many organizations will decide to spend a little more
                                    money
                                    > now to avoid a shorter cable lifespan.
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > And then you can use this chart to compute guage wire and how many mA it
                                    can
                                    > handle and volts and yada and yada
                                    >
                                    > http://www.powerstream.com/Wire_Size.htm
                                    >
                                    > With those specs, it seems like cat6 can do 0.729amps and cat5e can do
                                    > 0.577amps
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > hope that helps
                                    >
                                    > Lee
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > ----- Original Message -----
                                    > From: "Kenneth Maxon" <kmaxon@...>
                                    > To: <SeattleRobotics@yahoogroups.com>
                                    > Sent: Wednesday, January 05, 2005 12:30 AM
                                    > Subject: Re: [SeattleRobotics] Suggestions for data bus wiring?
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > >
                                    > > The question has many answers depending on what you are going to buy. I
                                    > > get
                                    > > the idea that Susan is going to buy the cheapest thing that money can
                                    find
                                    > > based on her circumstances. That would be a zinc/tin coated round wire
                                    > > contact stamped / insert part. These have much higher contact
                                    resistance,
                                    > > lower mating cycle counts and of course lower current ratings. If one
                                    > > were
                                    > > designing these into a product that needed higher reliability / better
                                    > > characteristics, one would go with a gold deposition flat formed pin
                                    which
                                    > > has a much higher surface area of contact, lower resistance, and of
                                    course
                                    > > higher current ratings. The later can handle 1A-DC. Some manufacturers
                                    > > advertise higher ratings than this, but extensive use of these
                                    connectors
                                    > > over 10yrs in production level products demonstrates this not to be
                                    true.
                                    > >
                                    > > -Kenneth
                                    > > (Unit 3's in trouble and it's scared out of its wits) -Geddy Lee
                                    > > ----- Original Message -----
                                    > > From: "Lee Leathers" <fredit@...>
                                    > > To: <SeattleRobotics@yahoogroups.com>
                                    > > Sent: Tuesday, January 04, 2005 8:58 PM
                                    > > Subject: Re: [SeattleRobotics] Suggestions for data bus wiring?
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    > >>
                                    > >> Anyone know the max voltage/amps that can be run over rj45 (and rj11)?
                                    > >>
                                    > >> thanks-Lee
                                    > >>
                                    > >>
                                    > >>
                                    > >> ----- Original Message -----
                                    > >> From: "Kenneth Maxon" <kmaxon@...>
                                    > >> To: <SeattleRobotics@yahoogroups.com>
                                    > >> Sent: Tuesday, January 04, 2005 11:23 PM
                                    > >> Subject: Re: [SeattleRobotics] Suggestions for data bus wiring?
                                    > >>
                                    > >>
                                    > >> >
                                    > >> >
                                    > >> > If you are looking for more than 8 conductors... An RJ-48 connector
                                    is
                                    > >> > the
                                    > >> > same as a RJ-45 connector, but has 10 conductors and is ever so
                                    > >> > slightly
                                    > >> > wider.
                                    > >> >
                                    > >> > -Kenneth
                                    > >> > (Unit 3's in trouble and it's scared out of its wits) -Geddy Lee
                                    > >> > ----- Original Message -----
                                    > >> > From: "Jim McBride" <mcbride7@...>
                                    > >> > To: <SeattleRobotics@yahoogroups.com>
                                    > >> > Sent: Tuesday, January 04, 2005 1:28 PM
                                    > >> > Subject: Re: [SeattleRobotics] Suggestions for data bus wiring?
                                    > >> >
                                    > >> >
                                    > >> >>
                                    > >> >> There are 8 wires.
                                    > >> >>
                                    > >> >> At 04:19 PM 1/4/2005 -0500, you wrote:
                                    > >> >>
                                    > >> >> >Well, using the rj-11 makes the job look a lot better.. but is it
                                    > >> > actually
                                    > >> >> >better (than using screw down terminals?).. I could definitily see
                                    > > HUGE
                                    > >> > time
                                    > >> >> >savings when you are having to use modular board designs.. or
                                    having
                                    > > to
                                    > >> > take
                                    > >> >> >these boards away from each other a lot (in the case of
                                    > >> >> >debugging/ssystem
                                    > >> >> >design)..
                                    > >> >> >
                                    > >> >> >Hm.. there is also a space issue too.. I like the rj11/rj45 because
                                    > >> >> >it
                                    > >> > saves
                                    > >> >> >space.
                                    > >> >> >
                                    > >> >> >Another issue is.. it will be a little bit cheaper (?) to go the
                                    > >> > rj11/rj45
                                    > >> >> >way..
                                    > >> >> >
                                    > >> >> >Hmm.. I like it! I am definitly going to use it in my next
                                    design..
                                    > >> >> >
                                    > >> >> >How many wires are in rj45?
                                    > >> >> >
                                    > >> >> >thanks-Lee
                                    > >> >> >
                                    > >> >> >
                                    > >> >> >
                                    > >> >> >
                                    > >> >> >----- Original Message -----
                                    > >> >> >From: "John M" <john@...>
                                    > >> >> >To: <SeattleRobotics@yahoogroups.com>
                                    > >> >> >Sent: Monday, January 03, 2005 4:34 PM
                                    > >> >> >Subject: RE: [SeattleRobotics] Suggestions for data bus wiring?
                                    > >> >> >
                                    > >> >> >
                                    > >> >> > >
                                    > >> >> > > I've standardized with talking I2C (TWI) between most of my
                                    > >> >> > > boards.
                                    > >> > My
                                    > >> >> > > cabling now consists almost entirely of 6-conductor RJ-11 (phone
                                    > >> > plugs).
                                    > >> >> > > It
                                    > >> >> > > is astoundingly easy to create nice clean (and cheap) cables,
                                    and
                                    > > the
                                    > >> >> > > connectors are more secure than a lot of the molex stuff.
                                    > >> >> > >
                                    > >> >> > > The lines are (SCL, VCC, GND, SDA, INT, RESERVED), where INT is
                                    an
                                    > >> >> > > optional
                                    > >> >> > > interrupt pin so TWI slaves can alert the master when they need
                                    to
                                    > > be
                                    > >> >> > > serviced.
                                    > >> >> > >
                                    > >> >> > > Since I'm sending power through the same cable, many of my
                                    > > peripheral
                                    > >> >> > > boards
                                    > >> >> > > need no other external connections (other than
                                    > > application-specific,
                                    > >> > such
                                    > >> >> > > as
                                    > >> >> > > sensor leads).
                                    > >> >> > >
                                    > >> >> > > My main issue with this is that I have to put the custom socket
                                    on
                                    > >> >> > > the
                                    > >> >> > > boards, or create an adapter; in practice it's not a big deal.
                                    > >> >> > >
                                    > >> >> > > I was thinking about going with RJ-45 (Ethernet cabling), but
                                    > > wanted
                                    > >> > to
                                    > >> >> > > keep
                                    > >> >> > > things small. If I start running into signal problems, I may
                                    end
                                    > > up
                                    > >> >> > > having
                                    > >> >> > > to switch.
                                    > >> >> > >
                                    > >> >> > > Anybody else going this route?
                                    > >> >> > >
                                    > >> >> > >
                                    > >> >> > >
                                    > >> >> > >> -----Original Message-----
                                    > >> >> > >> From: Jay Beavers [mailto:Jay_C_Beavers@...]
                                    > >> >> > >> Sent: Monday, January 03, 2005 12:16 PM
                                    > >> >> > >> To: SeattleRobotics@yahoogroups.com
                                    > >> >> > >> Subject: [SeattleRobotics] Suggestions for data bus wiring?
                                    > >> >> > >>
                                    > >> >> > >>
                                    > >> >> > >> OK, I'm constructing my first "multi-layered" robot. One new
                                    > >> >> > >> problem
                                    > >> > I'm
                                    > >> >> > >> going to have to deal with is the best way to move signals
                                    > >> >> > >> between
                                    > >> >> > >> layers.
                                    > >> >> > >> For instance, my layering looks like:
                                    > >> >> > >>
                                    > >> >> > >>
                                    > >> >> > >> Level 4: Top
                                    > >> >> > >> -----------------------------------
                                    > >> >> > >> Level 3: Sensors
                                    > >> >> > >> -----------------------------------
                                    > >> >> > >> Level 2: Computer
                                    > >> >> > >> -----------------------------------
                                    > >> >> > >> Level 1: Batteries & Drive Train
                                    > >> >> > >>
                                    > >> >> > >> I'm going to need to move power from Level 1 to Levels 2 & 3.
                                    > > This
                                    > >> > is
                                    > >> >> > >> easy enough since it's really only three wires -- ground,
                                    > >> >> > >> unregulated
                                    > >> >> > >> battery voltage, & 5V regulated.
                                    > >> >> > >>
                                    > >> >> > >> However, sensors & I/O are going to be more complex. For
                                    > > instance,
                                    > >> >> > >> I
                                    > >> >> > >> need
                                    > >> >> > >> to move 4x USB & 1 RS-232 between the Level 2 Computer & Level
                                    3
                                    > >> > Sensors
                                    > >> >> > >> layers. I may be putting a couple of sensors on the top of the
                                    > >> >> > >> robot
                                    > >> > for
                                    > >> >> > >> interference reasons (USB GPS & I2C compass come to mind). I'd
                                    > > like
                                    > >> > each
                                    > >> >> > >> layer to easily attach/detach from each other with preferably
                                    > >> >> > >> only
                                    > >> > two
                                    > >> >> > >> plugs -- one power & one i/o cable.
                                    > >> >> > >>
                                    > >> >> > >> I've seen some folks use ribbon cables -- like those used in
                                    > >> >> > >> computer
                                    > >> >> > >> hard
                                    > >> >> > >> drives & floppy drives -- but I have no experience or tools for
                                    > >> > making
                                    > >> >> > >> custom ribbon cables & I don't know how to "break out" the
                                    > >> >> > >> individual
                                    > >> >> > >> wires easily without going through the process of creating a
                                    > > custom
                                    > >> >> > >> circuit board with headers.
                                    > >> >> > >>
                                    > >> >> > >> What would people recommend for this and can I get the parts &
                                    > > tools
                                    > >> > from
                                    > >> >> > >> Fry's or should I order them from Jameco & DigiKey? Am I
                                    > > reasonably
                                    > >> > safe
                                    > >> >> > >> in splicing a couple of USB signal wires onto one ribbon cable
                                    > > along
                                    > >> > with
                                    > >> >> > >> RS-232 & perhaps some I2C and simple 5V analog/digital sensor
                                    > > wires
                                    > >> > given
                                    > >> >> > >> the fact that the total wire length will only be around two
                                    feet
                                    > > or
                                    > >> > will
                                    > >> >> > >> interference play havok with me?
                                    > >> >> > >>
                                    > >> >> > >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                    > >> >> > >>
                                    > >> >> > >>
                                    > >> >> > >>
                                    > >> >> > >> Visit the SRS Website at http://www.seattlerobotics.org
                                    > >> >> > >> Yahoo! Groups Links
                                    > >> >> > >>
                                    > >> >> > >>
                                    > >> >> > >>
                                    > >> >> > >>
                                    > >> >> > >>
                                    > >> >> > >
                                    > >> >> > >
                                    > >> >> > >
                                    > >> >> > >
                                    > >> >> > > Visit the SRS Website at http://www.seattlerobotics.org
                                    > >> >> > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                    > >> >> > >
                                    > >> >> > >
                                    > >> >> > >
                                    > >> >> > >
                                    > >> >> > >
                                    > >> >> > >
                                    > >> >> > >
                                    > >> >> > >
                                    > >> >> >
                                    > >> >> >
                                    > >> >> >
                                    > >> >> >
                                    > >> >> >Visit the SRS Website at http://www.seattlerobotics.org
                                    > >> >> >Yahoo! Groups Links
                                    > >> >> >
                                    > >> >> >
                                    > >> >> >
                                    > >> >> >
                                    > >> >>
                                    > >> >> JIMc
                                    > >> >> x22661
                                    > >> >> National Ignition Facility
                                    > >> >>
                                    > >> >>
                                    > >> >>
                                    > >> >>
                                    > >> >> Visit the SRS Website at http://www.seattlerobotics.org
                                    > >> >> Yahoo! Groups Links
                                    > >> >>
                                    > >> >>
                                    > >> >>
                                    > >> >>
                                    > >> >>
                                    > >> >>
                                    > >> >>
                                    > >> >>
                                    > >> >
                                    > >> >
                                    > >> >
                                    > >> > Visit the SRS Website at http://www.seattlerobotics.org
                                    > >> > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                    > >> >
                                    > >> >
                                    > >> >
                                    > >> >
                                    > >> >
                                    > >> >
                                    > >> >
                                    > >>
                                    > >>
                                    > >>
                                    > >>
                                    > >> Visit the SRS Website at http://www.seattlerobotics.org
                                    > >> Yahoo! Groups Links
                                    > >>
                                    > >>
                                    > >>
                                    > >>
                                    > >>
                                    > >>
                                    > >>
                                    > >>
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    > > Visit the SRS Website at http://www.seattlerobotics.org
                                    > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > Visit the SRS Website at http://www.seattlerobotics.org
                                    > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                  • Lee Leathers
                                    hmm.. I have just been putting the 2 wires together, and twisting the wires together then put electrical tape on them.. how good/bad is this (I am afraid to
                                    Message 17 of 20 , Jan 5, 2005
                                    • 0 Attachment
                                      hmm.. I have just been putting the 2 wires together, and twisting the wires
                                      together then put electrical tape on them.. how good/bad is this (I am
                                      afraid to know)

                                      thanks! Lee
                                    • Jon Hylands
                                      ... The only drawback I ve seen to an RJ-type jack is the connectors on the socket are often staggered, so they can t easily be soldered to a standard 0.1
                                      Message 18 of 20 , Jan 7, 2005
                                      • 0 Attachment
                                        On Wed, 05 Jan 2005 20:06:12 -0600, Susan M <slmccain@...> wrote:

                                        > The kids are used to this type connector as well. Does anyone
                                        > see any drawbacks?

                                        The only drawback I've seen to an RJ-type jack is the connectors on the
                                        socket are often staggered, so they can't easily be soldered to a standard
                                        0.1" spacing protoboard.

                                        You'll want to make sure you can fasten the jack to your board somehow, and
                                        can wire it in easily.

                                        Later,
                                        Jon

                                        --------------------------------------------------------------
                                        Jon Hylands Jon@... http://www.huv.com/jon

                                        Project: Micro Seeker (Micro Autonomous Underwater Vehicle)
                                        http://www.huv.com
                                      • Larry Barello
                                        I confess I have not been following this thread very closely. How about standard 10 conductor ribbon cable and 10 position IDC sockets? Then you can get
                                        Message 19 of 20 , Jan 7, 2005
                                        • 0 Attachment
                                          I confess I have not been following this thread very closely.

                                          How about standard 10 conductor ribbon cable and 10 position IDC sockets?
                                          Then you can get buckets of the headers, sockets (plastic) and cable from
                                          www.Jameco.com. Cable is $11/100' #135538, Sockets are $19/100 #32491 and
                                          Headers are $16/100 #67820 (or polarized, shrouded for $32/100 #67811) That
                                          makes a lot of interconnects.

                                          They fit standard .1" perf board and cables are easy to assemble (might be a
                                          bit difficult for children, but a small table vice would solve that
                                          problem).

                                          If you are running an SPI bus, then the 10 conductors will give you power,
                                          data, clock (6 lines) + 4 more board select lines. If you are running I2C
                                          then you have 6 spare lines for whatever you want.

                                          -----Original Message-----
                                          From: Jon Hylands [mailto:jon@...]
                                          Sent: Friday, January 07, 2005 6:09 AM
                                          To: SeattleRobotics@yahoogroups.com
                                          Subject: Re: [SeattleRobotics] Suggestions for data bus wiring?



                                          On Wed, 05 Jan 2005 20:06:12 -0600, Susan M <slmccain@...> wrote:

                                          > The kids are used to this type connector as well. Does anyone
                                          > see any drawbacks?

                                          The only drawback I've seen to an RJ-type jack is the connectors on the
                                          socket are often staggered, so they can't easily be soldered to a standard
                                          0.1" spacing protoboard.

                                          You'll want to make sure you can fasten the jack to your board somehow, and
                                          can wire it in easily.

                                          Later,
                                          Jon

                                          --------------------------------------------------------------
                                          Jon Hylands Jon@... http://www.huv.com/jon

                                          Project: Micro Seeker (Micro Autonomous Underwater Vehicle)
                                          http://www.huv.com


                                          Visit the SRS Website at http://www.seattlerobotics.org
                                          Yahoo! Groups Links
                                        • Jay Beavers
                                          Alright, I ve just created a PCB to help break out the wires from a 26 conductor ribbon cable like Larry suggests below. I ve posted the details of the
                                          Message 20 of 20 , Jan 17, 2005
                                          • 0 Attachment
                                            Alright, I've just created a PCB to help break out the wires from a 26 conductor ribbon cable like Larry suggests below. I've posted
                                            the details of the circuit design, plus the PCB file, to my blog at:

                                            http://cylonrobot.blogspot.com/2005/01/how-do-you-carry-signals-and-power-in.html<http://cylonrobot.blogspot.com/2005/01/how-do-you-carry-signals-and-power-in.html>

                                            if you're interested. Thank you for all the suggestions, I appreciate the advice.

                                            - jcb

                                            --- In SeattleRobotics@yahoogroups.com<mailto:SeattleRobotics@yahoogroups.com>, "Larry Barello" <yahoo@b<mailto:yahoo@b>...>
                                            wrote:
                                            > I confess I have not been following this thread very closely.
                                            >
                                            > How about standard 10 conductor ribbon cable and 10 position IDC
                                            sockets?
                                            > Then you can get buckets of the headers, sockets (plastic) and
                                            cable from
                                            > www.Jameco.com<http://www.jameco.com/>. Cable is $11/100' #135538, Sockets are $19/100
                                            #32491 and
                                            > Headers are $16/100 #67820 (or polarized, shrouded for $32/100
                                            #67811) That
                                            > makes a lot of interconnects.
                                            >
                                            > They fit standard .1" perf board and cables are easy to assemble
                                            (might be a
                                            > bit difficult for children, but a small table vice would solve that
                                            > problem).
                                            >
                                            > If you are running an SPI bus, then the 10 conductors will give
                                            you power,
                                            > data, clock (6 lines) + 4 more board select lines. If you are
                                            running I2C
                                            > then you have 6 spare lines for whatever you want.
                                            >
                                            > -----Original Message-----
                                            > From: Jon Hylands [mailto:jon@h...]
                                            > Sent: Friday, January 07, 2005 6:09 AM
                                            > To: SeattleRobotics@yahoogroups.com<mailto:SeattleRobotics@yahoogroups.com>
                                            > Subject: Re: [SeattleRobotics] Suggestions for data bus wiring?
                                            >
                                            >
                                            >
                                            > On Wed, 05 Jan 2005 20:06:12 -0600, Susan M <slmccain@k<mailto:slmccain@k>...> wrote:
                                            >
                                            > > The kids are used to this type connector as well. Does anyone
                                            > > see any drawbacks?
                                            >
                                            > The only drawback I've seen to an RJ-type jack is the connectors
                                            on the
                                            > socket are often staggered, so they can't easily be soldered to a
                                            standard
                                            > 0.1" spacing protoboard.
                                            >
                                            > You'll want to make sure you can fasten the jack to your board
                                            somehow, and
                                            > can wire it in easily.
                                            >
                                            > Later,
                                            > Jon
                                            >
                                            > --------------------------------------------------------------
                                            > Jon Hylands Jon@h<mailto:Jon@h>... http://www.huv.com/jon<http://www.huv.com/jon>
                                            >
                                            > Project: Micro Seeker (Micro Autonomous Underwater Vehicle)
                                            > http://www.huv.com<http://www.huv.com/>
                                            >
                                            >
                                            > Visit the SRS Website at http://www.seattlerobotics.org<http://www.seattlerobotics.org/>
                                            > Yahoo! Groups Links






                                            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                          Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.