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wrt54g (Was: OK, I need some help)

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  • Karl Lunt
    The wrt54g will be the main control computer for any kind of large robot you want to build. Since it runs Linux, you have on-board tools such as cron, ftp,
    Message 1 of 13 , Jul 1, 2004
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      The wrt54g will be the main control computer for any kind of large
      robot you want to build. Since it runs Linux, you have on-board
      tools such as cron, ftp, telnet, and anything else you want to add.
      The board supports wireless and wired Ethernet. One of the serial
      ports controls the console, the second will be used to interface to
      the I/O wad, providing sensor and actuator control. You will be able
      (when we are finished) to download new code, interact with the robot,
      and perhaps, even build new apps on the robot (how big can Perl be,
      anyway?).

      These boards are less than $70, widely available, fanless, draw way
      less than an amp at 12 VDC, run at 200 MHz, and are designed to run
      continuously without crashing or rebooting. Once we get the build
      environment down, I can't imagine a more flexible, powerful main
      robot computer for the money.

      I agree that some form of Linux is likely the build environment to
      use. Which Linux we run on the wrt54g will likely be decided by the
      Linksys source. I would hesitate to stray too far from what Linksys
      has done, but a Linux blackbelt may feel otherwise, and have
      compelling reasons to change.

      Dave, how did the download go?

      Karl


      >Personally I would set up a linux box to do all the compiling on,
      >since its the native
      >environment. Of course I am biased (coming from a household that has no less
      >then 7 machines running linux, and only 1 that runs windows). Have you looked
      >at uClinux yet? They have a pretty neat build and configuration
      >system that lets
      >you config and build the kernel and apps all in one go. It would
      >probably be some
      >work, but it would be useful (possibly) if you ported the linksys
      >stuff over to a similar
      >system.
      >
      >BTW, what is your ultimate goal with the linksys router? I was not
      >at the meeting so I
      >do not know what this is about.
      >
      >Mike
      >
      >-----Original Message-----
      >From: Karl Lunt <karllunt@...>
      >Sent: Jun 30, 2004 10:30 PM
      >To: SeattleRobotics@yahoogroups.com
      >Subject: Re: [SeattleRobotics] OK, I need some help
      >
      >Mike and Dave (and others),
      >
      >Ideally, I would like a toolchain that runs under Win98 or suchlike.
      >However, the Win/Unix emulation isn't very good (yes, I've tried
      >cygwin, and it has some problems, notably speed). Probably the best
      >approach is to find the most robust toolchain, then build whatever PC
      >is needed to make that toolchain work.
      >
      >Right now, I have a P3 850MHz laying around with an empty 30G hard
      >drive on it. (OK, it actually has NetBSD 1.6.2 on it, but that can
      >be changed if needed.) If the Linksys toolchain is the way to go,
      >and it requires some flavor of Linux, such as RedHat or SUSE, then
      >that's what I'll load on the PC.
      >
      >My goal is an easy to build Unix/Linux environment that supports the
      >selected toolchain, with everything documented needed to recreate the
      >environment so someone else fairly new to Unix/Linux can get the
      >system up and running.
      >
      >If we go with something other than the Linksys toolchain, remember
      >that we need to be able to recreate the wrt54g's Linux kernel (source
      >provided by Linksys) as part of the drill.
      >
      >Jim Buzbee's project at http://www.batbox.org/wrt54g-linux.html
      >contains a typical distribution for the wrt54g. I have not
      >downloaded his package yet, but the docs imply a script you can run
      >that will create a distribution tarball for transfer to the wrt54g.
      >His distro loads into wrt54g RAM, which is a good place to start, but
      >ultimately I would want something that loads into flash, then expands
      >on power-up, just like the current wrt54g firmware does.
      >
      >Jim's distro will install many of the typical Linux tools, such as
      >ls, dd...it even includes vi! I would want the ability to pick and
      >choose tools to add, including my own custom Linux programs compiled
      >for the MIPS.
      >
      >(Let me know when everyone thinks it's time to take this OT..)
      >
      > Karl
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >Visit the SRS Website at http://www.seattlerobotics.org
      >Yahoo! Groups Links
      >
      >
      >
      >
    • Dave Hylands
      Hi Karl, The download went fine. Which linux you use to build the toolchain probably doesn t matter all that much. I happen to be using Mandrake 8.1, and
      Message 2 of 13 , Jul 1, 2004
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        Hi Karl,

        The download went fine. Which linux you use to build the toolchain
        probably doesn't matter all that much. I happen to be using Mandrake
        8.1, and others in the office use Mandrake 9.1. RedHat, or others should
        also work fine. I think I'd stay away from stuff that's too old (i.e.
        doesn't use a 2.4 kernel).

        The source code comes with a build script, which I'm running now. The
        README.txt doesn't come out and say it, but you want to make sure that
        /opt/brm exists and is writable) before running the script (otherwise
        the build script will fail partway through). So far, I'm just running as
        an ordinary user (I had to be root to create /opt/brcm and set the
        permissions).

        I've also discovered one very minor error in the script (it will
        continue to run even with the error, and as long as you were following
        the directions it doesn't make any difference).

        Once I've verified that it builds under linux, I'll give it a go under
        cygwin.

        I think I'm going to have to get me another one of these WRT54G's. I
        have an older one, but it's in active service right now, so I don't feel
        like cannibalizing it :)

        --
        Dave Hylands
        Vancouver, BC, Canada
        http://www.DaveHylands.com/

        > -----Original Message-----
        > From: Karl Lunt [mailto:karllunt@...]
        > Sent: Thursday, July 01, 2004 6:27 AM
        > To: SeattleRobotics@yahoogroups.com
        > Subject: [SeattleRobotics] wrt54g (Was: OK, I need some help)
        >
        >
        > The wrt54g will be the main control computer for any kind of large
        > robot you want to build. Since it runs Linux, you have on-board
        > tools such as cron, ftp, telnet, and anything else you want to add.
        > The board supports wireless and wired Ethernet. One of the serial
        > ports controls the console, the second will be used to interface to
        > the I/O wad, providing sensor and actuator control. You will be able
        > (when we are finished) to download new code, interact with the robot,
        > and perhaps, even build new apps on the robot (how big can Perl be,
        > anyway?).
        >
        > These boards are less than $70, widely available, fanless, draw way
        > less than an amp at 12 VDC, run at 200 MHz, and are designed to run
        > continuously without crashing or rebooting. Once we get the build
        > environment down, I can't imagine a more flexible, powerful main
        > robot computer for the money.
        >
        > I agree that some form of Linux is likely the build environment to
        > use. Which Linux we run on the wrt54g will likely be decided by the
        > Linksys source. I would hesitate to stray too far from what Linksys
        > has done, but a Linux blackbelt may feel otherwise, and have
        > compelling reasons to change.
        >
        > Dave, how did the download go?
        >
        > Karl
        >
        >
        > >Personally I would set up a linux box to do all the compiling on,
        > >since its the native
        > >environment. Of course I am biased (coming from a household
        > that has no less
        > >then 7 machines running linux, and only 1 that runs
        > windows). Have you looked
        > >at uClinux yet? They have a pretty neat build and configuration
        > >system that lets
        > >you config and build the kernel and apps all in one go. It would
        > >probably be some
        > >work, but it would be useful (possibly) if you ported the linksys
        > >stuff over to a similar
        > >system.
        > >
        > >BTW, what is your ultimate goal with the linksys router? I was not
        > >at the meeting so I
        > >do not know what this is about.
        > >
        > >Mike
        > >
        > >-----Original Message-----
        > >From: Karl Lunt <karllunt@...>
        > >Sent: Jun 30, 2004 10:30 PM
        > >To: SeattleRobotics@yahoogroups.com
        > >Subject: Re: [SeattleRobotics] OK, I need some help
        > >
        > >Mike and Dave (and others),
        > >
        > >Ideally, I would like a toolchain that runs under Win98 or suchlike.
        > >However, the Win/Unix emulation isn't very good (yes, I've tried
        > >cygwin, and it has some problems, notably speed). Probably the best
        > >approach is to find the most robust toolchain, then build
        > whatever PC
        > >is needed to make that toolchain work.
        > >
        > >Right now, I have a P3 850MHz laying around with an empty 30G hard
        > >drive on it. (OK, it actually has NetBSD 1.6.2 on it, but
        > that can be
        > >changed if needed.) If the Linksys toolchain is the way to
        > go, and it
        > >requires some flavor of Linux, such as RedHat or SUSE, then
        > that's what
        > >I'll load on the PC.
        > >
        > >My goal is an easy to build Unix/Linux environment that supports the
        > >selected toolchain, with everything documented needed to
        > recreate the
        > >environment so someone else fairly new to Unix/Linux can get
        > the system
        > >up and running.
        > >
        > >If we go with something other than the Linksys toolchain,
        > remember that
        > >we need to be able to recreate the wrt54g's Linux kernel (source
        > >provided by Linksys) as part of the drill.
        > >
        > >Jim Buzbee's project at http://www.batbox.org/wrt54g-linux.html
        > >contains a typical distribution for the wrt54g. I have not
        > downloaded
        > >his package yet, but the docs imply a script you can run that will
        > >create a distribution tarball for transfer to the wrt54g. His distro
        > >loads into wrt54g RAM, which is a good place to start, but
        > ultimately I
        > >would want something that loads into flash, then expands on
        > power-up,
        > >just like the current wrt54g firmware does.
        > >
        > >Jim's distro will install many of the typical Linux tools,
        > such as ls,
        > >dd...it even includes vi! I would want the ability to pick
        > and choose
        > >tools to add, including my own custom Linux programs
        > compiled for the
        > >MIPS.
        > >
        > >(Let me know when everyone thinks it's time to take this OT..)
        > >
        > > Karl
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >Visit the SRS Website at http://www.seattlerobotics.org
        > >Yahoo! Groups Links
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        >
        >
        >
        > Visit the SRS Website at http://www.seattlerobotics.org
        > Yahoo! Groups Links
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
      • Dave Hylands
        I got the toolchain to build under Linux, and uClibc seems to compile fine using the built crosscompiler. Here s what I had to change in the
        Message 3 of 13 , Jul 1, 2004
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          I got the toolchain to build under Linux, and uClibc seems to compile
          fine using the built crosscompiler.

          Here's what I had to change in the tools-src/build_tools.sh file on line
          131:

          Was:

          if [ ! -f .config - ! -f include/linux/version.h ]; then

          Changed to:

          if [ ! -f .config -o ! -f include/linux/version.h ]; then

          For the tools-src/README.TXT, you need to build the toolchain before
          building uClibc, and when building uClibc, do a make before doing the
          make install.

          Otherwise, things seemed to go pretty smoothly.

          I was using the WRT54G 2.02.7 tarball.

          Hopefully, I'll get a chance to try building this under cygwin in the
          next few days.

          --
          Dave Hylands
          Vancouver, BC, Canada
          http://www.DaveHylands.com/

          > -----Original Message-----
          > From: Dave Hylands [mailto:dhylands@...]
          > Sent: Thursday, July 01, 2004 9:52 AM
          > To: SeattleRobotics@yahoogroups.com
          > Subject: RE: [SeattleRobotics] wrt54g (Was: OK, I need some help)
          >
          >
          > Hi Karl,
          >
          > The download went fine. Which linux you use to build the
          > toolchain probably doesn't matter all that much. I happen to
          > be using Mandrake 8.1, and others in the office use Mandrake
          > 9.1. RedHat, or others should also work fine. I think I'd
          > stay away from stuff that's too old (i.e. doesn't use a 2.4 kernel).
          >
          > The source code comes with a build script, which I'm running
          > now. The README.txt doesn't come out and say it, but you want
          > to make sure that /opt/brm exists and is writable) before
          > running the script (otherwise the build script will fail
          > partway through). So far, I'm just running as an ordinary
          > user (I had to be root to create /opt/brcm and set the permissions).
          >
          > I've also discovered one very minor error in the script (it
          > will continue to run even with the error, and as long as you
          > were following the directions it doesn't make any difference).
          >
          > Once I've verified that it builds under linux, I'll give it a
          > go under cygwin.
          >
          > I think I'm going to have to get me another one of these
          > WRT54G's. I have an older one, but it's in active service
          > right now, so I don't feel like cannibalizing it :)
          >
          > --
          > Dave Hylands
          > Vancouver, BC, Canada
          > http://www.DaveHylands.com/
          >
          > > -----Original Message-----
          > > From: Karl Lunt [mailto:karllunt@...]
          > > Sent: Thursday, July 01, 2004 6:27 AM
          > > To: SeattleRobotics@yahoogroups.com
          > > Subject: [SeattleRobotics] wrt54g (Was: OK, I need some help)
          > >
          > >
          > > The wrt54g will be the main control computer for any kind of large
          > > robot you want to build. Since it runs Linux, you have on-board
          > > tools such as cron, ftp, telnet, and anything else you want to add.
          > > The board supports wireless and wired Ethernet. One of the serial
          > > ports controls the console, the second will be used to interface to
          > > the I/O wad, providing sensor and actuator control. You
          > will be able
          > > (when we are finished) to download new code, interact with
          > the robot,
          > > and perhaps, even build new apps on the robot (how big can Perl be,
          > > anyway?).
          > >
          > > These boards are less than $70, widely available, fanless, draw way
          > > less than an amp at 12 VDC, run at 200 MHz, and are designed to run
          > > continuously without crashing or rebooting. Once we get the build
          > > environment down, I can't imagine a more flexible, powerful main
          > > robot computer for the money.
          > >
          > > I agree that some form of Linux is likely the build environment to
          > > use. Which Linux we run on the wrt54g will likely be
          > decided by the
          > > Linksys source. I would hesitate to stray too far from
          > what Linksys
          > > has done, but a Linux blackbelt may feel otherwise, and have
          > > compelling reasons to change.
          > >
          > > Dave, how did the download go?
          > >
          > > Karl
          > >
          > >
          > > >Personally I would set up a linux box to do all the compiling on,
          > > >since its the native environment. Of course I am biased
          > (coming from
          > > >a household
          > > that has no less
          > > >then 7 machines running linux, and only 1 that runs
          > > windows). Have you looked
          > > >at uClinux yet? They have a pretty neat build and configuration
          > > >system that lets
          > > >you config and build the kernel and apps all in one go. It would
          > > >probably be some
          > > >work, but it would be useful (possibly) if you ported the linksys
          > > >stuff over to a similar
          > > >system.
          > > >
          > > >BTW, what is your ultimate goal with the linksys router?
          > I was not
          > > >at the meeting so I do not know what this is about.
          > > >
          > > >Mike
          > > >
          > > >-----Original Message-----
          > > >From: Karl Lunt <karllunt@...>
          > > >Sent: Jun 30, 2004 10:30 PM
          > > >To: SeattleRobotics@yahoogroups.com
          > > >Subject: Re: [SeattleRobotics] OK, I need some help
          > > >
          > > >Mike and Dave (and others),
          > > >
          > > >Ideally, I would like a toolchain that runs under Win98 or
          > suchlike.
          > > >However, the Win/Unix emulation isn't very good (yes, I've tried
          > > >cygwin, and it has some problems, notably speed).
          > Probably the best
          > > >approach is to find the most robust toolchain, then build
          > > whatever PC
          > > >is needed to make that toolchain work.
          > > >
          > > >Right now, I have a P3 850MHz laying around with an empty 30G hard
          > > >drive on it. (OK, it actually has NetBSD 1.6.2 on it, but
          > > that can be
          > > >changed if needed.) If the Linksys toolchain is the way to
          > > go, and it
          > > >requires some flavor of Linux, such as RedHat or SUSE, then
          > > that's what
          > > >I'll load on the PC.
          > > >
          > > >My goal is an easy to build Unix/Linux environment that
          > supports the
          > > >selected toolchain, with everything documented needed to
          > > recreate the
          > > >environment so someone else fairly new to Unix/Linux can get
          > > the system
          > > >up and running.
          > > >
          > > >If we go with something other than the Linksys toolchain,
          > > remember that
          > > >we need to be able to recreate the wrt54g's Linux kernel (source
          > > >provided by Linksys) as part of the drill.
          > > >
          > > >Jim Buzbee's project at http://www.batbox.org/wrt54g-linux.html
          > > >contains a typical distribution for the wrt54g. I have not
          > > downloaded
          > > >his package yet, but the docs imply a script you can run that will
          > > >create a distribution tarball for transfer to the wrt54g.
          > His distro
          > > >loads into wrt54g RAM, which is a good place to start, but
          > > ultimately I
          > > >would want something that loads into flash, then expands on
          > > power-up,
          > > >just like the current wrt54g firmware does.
          > > >
          > > >Jim's distro will install many of the typical Linux tools,
          > > such as ls,
          > > >dd...it even includes vi! I would want the ability to pick
          > > and choose
          > > >tools to add, including my own custom Linux programs
          > > compiled for the
          > > >MIPS.
          > > >
          > > >(Let me know when everyone thinks it's time to take this OT..)
          > > >
          > > > Karl
          > > >
          > > >
          > > >
          > > >
          > > >
          > > >
          > > >
          > > >Visit the SRS Website at http://www.seattlerobotics.org
          > Yahoo! Groups
          > > >Links
          > > >
          > > >
          > > >
          > > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > > Visit the SRS Website at http://www.seattlerobotics.org
          > > Yahoo! Groups Links
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          >
          >
          >
          > Visit the SRS Website at http://www.seattlerobotics.org
          > Yahoo! Groups Links
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
        • Karl Lunt
          OK, I understand that you are using a recent version of Mandrake. I can get Mandrake with no problem, but my concern is how easy will the next step (building
          Message 4 of 13 , Jul 1, 2004
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            OK, I understand that you are using a recent version of Mandrake. I
            can get Mandrake with no problem, but my concern is how easy will the
            next step (building the cross chain) be? How different is your
            Mandrake install from the stock, off the CD, install? Tweaks to the
            system that seem minor to you will stop me (and perhaps others) dead
            in my tracks. I've already been through this with other attempts at
            building the cross tools.

            If you can provide a copy of the Linksys source chain (or perhaps I
            can download it from work), that would be a help. If you can provide
            a binary tool image on CD, all ready to go, that can simply be copied
            and/or mounted onto an existing Linux system, that would also he a
            help to us newbies. Perhaps there are other possibilities.

            (Note: I'm speaking here as one who has tried and failed repeatedly
            at doing something that a web full of Linux blackbelts assure me is
            easy, namely building the cross tools suite.)

            As to buying another wrt54g, go for it. Once we get past this
            hurdle, I can see the wrt54g becoming a dependable embedded computer,
            and a powerful robotics tool.

            The cygwin build would be way cool, if you could make that work. The
            cygwin install is easy; I mean, I can do it, so just about any newbie
            should be able to do it also. Getting the cross chain and the
            Linksys source on cygwin would open this up to a lot more people.

            Please keep us posted...

            Karl


            >I got the toolchain to build under Linux, and uClibc seems to compile
            >fine using the built crosscompiler.
            >
            >Here's what I had to change in the tools-src/build_tools.sh file on line
            >131:
            >
            >Was:
            >
            > if [ ! -f .config - ! -f include/linux/version.h ]; then
            >
            >Changed to:
            >
            > if [ ! -f .config -o ! -f include/linux/version.h ]; then
            >
            >For the tools-src/README.TXT, you need to build the toolchain before
            >building uClibc, and when building uClibc, do a make before doing the
            >make install.
            >
            >Otherwise, things seemed to go pretty smoothly.
            >
            >I was using the WRT54G 2.02.7 tarball.
            >
            >Hopefully, I'll get a chance to try building this under cygwin in the
            >next few days.
            >
            >--
            >Dave Hylands
            >Vancouver, BC, Canada
            >http://www.DaveHylands.com/
            >
            >> -----Original Message-----
            >> From: Dave Hylands [mailto:dhylands@...]
            >> Sent: Thursday, July 01, 2004 9:52 AM
            >> To: SeattleRobotics@yahoogroups.com
            >> Subject: RE: [SeattleRobotics] wrt54g (Was: OK, I need some help)
            >>
            >>
            >> Hi Karl,
            >>
            >> The download went fine. Which linux you use to build the
            >> toolchain probably doesn't matter all that much. I happen to
            >> be using Mandrake 8.1, and others in the office use Mandrake
            >> 9.1. RedHat, or others should also work fine. I think I'd
            >> stay away from stuff that's too old (i.e. doesn't use a 2.4 kernel).
            >>
            >> The source code comes with a build script, which I'm running
            >> now. The README.txt doesn't come out and say it, but you want
            >> to make sure that /opt/brm exists and is writable) before
            >> running the script (otherwise the build script will fail
            >> partway through). So far, I'm just running as an ordinary
            >> user (I had to be root to create /opt/brcm and set the permissions).
            >>
            >> I've also discovered one very minor error in the script (it
            >> will continue to run even with the error, and as long as you
            >> were following the directions it doesn't make any difference).
            >>
            >> Once I've verified that it builds under linux, I'll give it a
            >> go under cygwin.
            >>
            >> I think I'm going to have to get me another one of these
            > > WRT54G's. I have an older one, but it's in active service
            > > right now, so I don't feel like cannibalizing it :)
            > >
            > > --
            > > Dave Hylands
            > > Vancouver, BC, Canada
            >> http://www.DaveHylands.com/
            >>
            >> > -----Original Message-----
            >> > From: Karl Lunt [mailto:karllunt@...]
            >> > Sent: Thursday, July 01, 2004 6:27 AM
            >> > To: SeattleRobotics@yahoogroups.com
            >> > Subject: [SeattleRobotics] wrt54g (Was: OK, I need some help)
            >> >
            >> >
            >> > The wrt54g will be the main control computer for any kind of large
            >> > robot you want to build. Since it runs Linux, you have on-board
            > > > tools such as cron, ftp, telnet, and anything else you want to add.
            >> > The board supports wireless and wired Ethernet. One of the serial
            >> > ports controls the console, the second will be used to interface to
            >> > the I/O wad, providing sensor and actuator control. You
            >> will be able
            >> > (when we are finished) to download new code, interact with
            >> the robot,
            >> > and perhaps, even build new apps on the robot (how big can Perl be,
            >> > anyway?).
            >> >
            >> > These boards are less than $70, widely available, fanless, draw way
            >> > less than an amp at 12 VDC, run at 200 MHz, and are designed to run
            >> > continuously without crashing or rebooting. Once we get the build
            >> > environment down, I can't imagine a more flexible, powerful main
            >> > robot computer for the money.
            >> >
            >> > I agree that some form of Linux is likely the build environment to
            >> > use. Which Linux we run on the wrt54g will likely be
            >> decided by the
            >> > Linksys source. I would hesitate to stray too far from
            >> what Linksys
            >> > has done, but a Linux blackbelt may feel otherwise, and have
            >> > compelling reasons to change.
            >> >
            >> > Dave, how did the download go?
            >> >
            >> > Karl
            >> >
            >> >
            >> > >Personally I would set up a linux box to do all the compiling on,
            >> > >since its the native environment. Of course I am biased
            >> (coming from
            >> > >a household
            >> > that has no less
            >> > >then 7 machines running linux, and only 1 that runs
            >> > windows). Have you looked
            >> > >at uClinux yet? They have a pretty neat build and configuration
            >> > >system that lets
            >> > >you config and build the kernel and apps all in one go. It would
            >> > >probably be some
            >> > >work, but it would be useful (possibly) if you ported the linksys
            >> > >stuff over to a similar
            >> > >system.
            >> > >
            >> > >BTW, what is your ultimate goal with the linksys router?
            >> I was not
            >> > >at the meeting so I do not know what this is about.
            >> > >
            >> > >Mike
            >> > >
            >> > >-----Original Message-----
            >> > >From: Karl Lunt <karllunt@...>
            >> > >Sent: Jun 30, 2004 10:30 PM
            >> > >To: SeattleRobotics@yahoogroups.com
            >> > >Subject: Re: [SeattleRobotics] OK, I need some help
            >> > >
            >> > >Mike and Dave (and others),
            >> > >
            >> > >Ideally, I would like a toolchain that runs under Win98 or
            >> suchlike.
            >> > >However, the Win/Unix emulation isn't very good (yes, I've tried
            >> > >cygwin, and it has some problems, notably speed).
            >> Probably the best
            >> > >approach is to find the most robust toolchain, then build
            >> > whatever PC
            >> > >is needed to make that toolchain work.
            >> > >
            >> > >Right now, I have a P3 850MHz laying around with an empty 30G hard
            >> > >drive on it. (OK, it actually has NetBSD 1.6.2 on it, but
            >> > that can be
            >> > >changed if needed.) If the Linksys toolchain is the way to
            >> > go, and it
            >> > >requires some flavor of Linux, such as RedHat or SUSE, then
            >> > that's what
            >> > >I'll load on the PC.
            >> > >
            >> > >My goal is an easy to build Unix/Linux environment that
            >> supports the
            >> > >selected toolchain, with everything documented needed to
            >> > recreate the
            >> > >environment so someone else fairly new to Unix/Linux can get
            >> > the system
            >> > >up and running.
            >> > >
            >> > >If we go with something other than the Linksys toolchain,
            >> > remember that
            >> > >we need to be able to recreate the wrt54g's Linux kernel (source
            >> > >provided by Linksys) as part of the drill.
            >> > >
            >> > >Jim Buzbee's project at http://www.batbox.org/wrt54g-linux.html
            >> > >contains a typical distribution for the wrt54g. I have not
            >> > downloaded
            >> > >his package yet, but the docs imply a script you can run that will
            >> > >create a distribution tarball for transfer to the wrt54g.
            >> His distro
            >> > >loads into wrt54g RAM, which is a good place to start, but
            >> > ultimately I
            >> > >would want something that loads into flash, then expands on
            >> > power-up,
            >> > >just like the current wrt54g firmware does.
            >> > >
            >> > >Jim's distro will install many of the typical Linux tools,
            >> > such as ls,
            >> > >dd...it even includes vi! I would want the ability to pick
            >> > and choose
            >> > >tools to add, including my own custom Linux programs
            >> > compiled for the
            >> > >MIPS.
            >> > >
            >> > >(Let me know when everyone thinks it's time to take this OT..)
            > > > >
            >> > > Karl
            >> > >
            >> > >
            >> > >
            >> > >
            >> > >
            >> > >
            >> > >
            >> > >Visit the SRS Website at http://www.seattlerobotics.org
            >> Yahoo! Groups
            >> > >Links
            >> > >
            >> > >
            >> > >
            >> > >
            >> >
            >> >
            >> >
            >> > Visit the SRS Website at http://www.seattlerobotics.org
            >> > Yahoo! Groups Links
            >> >
            >> >
            >> >
            >> >
            >> >
            >> >
            >> >
            >>
            >>
            >>
            >> Visit the SRS Website at http://www.seattlerobotics.org
            >> Yahoo! Groups Links
            >>
            >>
            >>
            >>
            >>
            >>
            >>
            >
            >
            >
            >Visit the SRS Website at http://www.seattlerobotics.org
            >Yahoo! Groups Links
            >
            >
            >
            >
          • Mike Panetta
            ... From: Karl Lunt Sent: Jul 1, 2004 10:03 PM To: SeattleRobotics@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [SeattleRobotics] wrt54g ... i n my
            Message 5 of 13 , Jul 1, 2004
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              -----Original Message-----
              From: Karl Lunt <karllunt@...>
              Sent: Jul 1, 2004 10:03 PM
              To: SeattleRobotics@yahoogroups.com
              Subject: RE: [SeattleRobotics] wrt54g

              >OK, I understand that you are using a recent version of Mandrake. I
              >can get Mandrake with no problem, but my concern is how easy will the
              >next step (building the cross chain) be? How different is your
              >Mandrake install from the stock, off the CD, install? Tweaks to the
              >system that seem minor to you will stop me (and perhaps others) dead
              i>n my tracks. I've already been through this with other attempts at
              >building the cross tools.

              I do not see how thats possible. Building a cross tool chain only requires
              a working version of GCC and Make. After it bootstraps itself it compiles
              itself, so the whole process is self contained, IE host differences should not
              matter. The only place I have seen "newbies" fail at building a cross tool
              chain is in not setting up the build environment properly (IE creating build
              directories and building in them and not the source dir) and passing the
              wrong flags to configure. In some cases this involves getting newlib
              set up and linked into the gcc directory structure properly as well.

              I have not built with uClibc (that I can remember, I have built so many
              different cross tool chains they all blend together ;) ) so there may
              be extra steps involved there, but usually its pretty streight forward
              as far as host configuration goes.

              >If you can provide a copy of the Linksys source chain (or perhaps I
              >can download it from work), that would be a help. If you can provide
              >a binary tool image on CD, all ready to go, that can simply be copied
              >and/or mounted onto an existing Linux system, that would also he a
              >help to us newbies. Perhaps there are other possibilities.

              Does linksys have links to what versions of the tools they used?

              >(Note: I'm speaking here as one who has tried and failed repeatedly
              >at doing something that a web full of Linux blackbelts assure me is
              >easy, namely building the cross tools suite.)

              Oh but it is easy ;)

              >As to buying another wrt54g, go for it. Once we get past this
              >hurdle, I can see the wrt54g becoming a dependable embedded computer,
              >and a powerful robotics tool.

              I need topick one up myself, as soon as I can afford it. (I am currently
              unemployed, so I have gobs of time, but no money).

              >The cygwin build would be way cool, if you could make that work. The
              >cygwin install is easy; I mean, I can do it, so just about any newbie
              >should be able to do it also. Getting the cross chain and the
              >Linksys source on cygwin would open this up to a lot more people.

              Maybe a package could be created that is like WinAVR that installs everything
              you need in one package for windows? For linux I personally would like to have
              RPM's DEB's, or whatever as packages, it makes maintaining things easier.

              >Please keep us posted...

              > Karl


              Mike
            • Karl Lunt
              ... (deletia...) ... My point exactly. To blackbelts, phrases like setting up the build environment properly amounts to 30 seconds of work, and they can
              Message 6 of 13 , Jul 2, 2004
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                >-----Original Message-----
                >From: Karl Lunt <karllunt@...>
                >Sent: Jul 1, 2004 10:03 PM
                >To: SeattleRobotics@yahoogroups.com
                >Subject: RE: [SeattleRobotics] wrt54g

                (deletia...)


                >I do not see how thats possible. Building a cross tool chain only requires
                >a working version of GCC and Make. After it bootstraps itself it compiles
                >itself, so the whole process is self contained, IE host differences should not
                >matter. The only place I have seen "newbies" fail at building a cross tool
                >chain is in not setting up the build environment properly (IE creating build
                >directories and building in them and not the source dir) and passing the
                >wrong flags to configure. In some cases this involves getting newlib
                >set up and linked into the gcc directory structure properly as well.


                My point exactly. To blackbelts, phrases like "setting up the build
                environment properly" amounts to 30 seconds of work, and they can
                spot instantly when the wrong directory is used or the wrong flag set
                or a dependency not set. To a newbie, it's all a mystery. If it
                works, we're surprised; when it doesn't, we haven't a clue where to
                look. And the Linux world's idea of a clue can be frustratingly
                vague.

                (deletia...)

                >Does linksys have links to what versions of the tools they used?

                I believe that Linksys provides on their website the whole enchilada;
                the compiler/assembler/linker source files, the source files for all
                components of the target system, and the target kernel source files.
                I think Dave is well along on getting that compiled. (Dave?)

                (deletia...)

                >Maybe a package could be created that is like WinAVR that installs everything
                >you need in one package for windows? For linux I personally would
                >like to have
                >RPM's DEB's, or whatever as packages, it makes maintaining things easier.

                I agree. I would like to see a single CD from the SRS (or one of its
                members) that mounts on a compatible version of Linux/Unix, and
                either provides a working binary suite of cross tools or a rock-solid
                build utility that creates those binaries. Additionally, the CD
                should contain the source for the target components that we select
                (and probably some extras) so the user can build a custom subset of
                our target confiburation. Also, I would like a DIRT SIMPLE means of
                configuring the list of compnent files built into the target system.
                For instance, it might be a robobuild.rc file, where every possible
                component is listed on a separate line, and the user merely comments
                out those portions not needed.


                Karl
              • Dave Hylands
                Hi Karl, ... Actuay 8.1 isn t so recent any more. It s at least a couple of years old. As far as I know it s a stock install. The big thinng is to make sure
                Message 7 of 13 , Jul 2, 2004
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                  Hi Karl,

                  > OK, I understand that you are using a recent version of Mandrake. I
                  > can get Mandrake with no problem, but my concern is how easy will the
                  > next step (building the cross chain) be? How different is your
                  > Mandrake install from the stock, off the CD, install? Tweaks to the
                  > system that seem minor to you will stop me (and perhaps others) dead
                  > in my tracks. I've already been through this with other attempts at
                  > building the cross tools.

                  Actuay 8.1 isn't so recent any more. It's at least a couple of years
                  old. As far as I know it's a "stock" install. The big thinng is to make
                  sure that the development tools are installed. If you can build a kernel
                  for the linux that you installed, then you have enough to build the
                  cross-toolchain.

                  > If you can provide a copy of the Linksys source chain (or perhaps I
                  > can download it from work), that would be a help. If you can provide
                  > a binary tool image on CD, all ready to go, that can simply be copied
                  > and/or mounted onto an existing Linux system, that would also he a
                  > help to us newbies. Perhaps there are other possibilities.

                  That big 150 Mb tarball from the linksys site includes the source as
                  well as precompiled binaries of the toolchain. I'm away from home for a
                  week right now, but I could put it on a CD for you if nobody local beats
                  me to it.

                  > (Note: I'm speaking here as one who has tried and failed repeatedly
                  > at doing something that a web full of Linux blackbelts assure me is
                  > easy, namely building the cross tools suite.)

                  It's easy to screw up when performing the steps manually. When using
                  some of the scripts that have een created recently, it makes things go
                  much nicer.

                  > As to buying another wrt54g, go for it. Once we get past this
                  > hurdle, I can see the wrt54g becoming a dependable embedded computer,
                  > and a powerful robotics tool.
                  >
                  > The cygwin build would be way cool, if you could make that work. The
                  > cygwin install is easy; I mean, I can do it, so just about any newbie
                  > should be able to do it also. Getting the cross chain and the
                  > Linksys source on cygwin would open this up to a lot more people.
                  >
                  > Please keep us posted...

                  I will :)

                  --
                  Dave Hylands
                  Vancouver, BC, Canada
                  http://www.DaveHylands.com/
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