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Re: [SeattleRobotics] metal supplies

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  • twcarroll@aol.com
    You mentioned in your posting: As for drilling metal, what did I do wrong? Did I use too high of a drill speed? I actually was using my Dremel in the drill
    Message 1 of 16 , Apr 2, 2003
      You mentioned in your posting:
      "As for drilling metal, what did I do wrong? Did I use too high of a
      drill speed? I actually was using my Dremel in the "drill press" tool that I
      have, but wasn't too happy with the results, anyway."
      As someone else mentioned, even with a variable speed Dremel tool,
      you are probably using a too high speed to drill with small bits. Take their
      advice and use "Tap Free" or similar lubrication and slow, 400-800 RPM
      drilling speeds. (even slower for thicker metal) Dremels are great for
      grinding, shaping, even drilling small holes in wood, brass or aluminum, and
      many other hobby uses, but I would leave drilling holes in steel to a
      "standard" drill press. You can get a cheap but surprisingly nice tabletop
      model at Harbor Freight Tools for $39.95 on sale, or $49.95 most times.
      That's cheaper than the cheapest Dremel and will handle far heavier metal.
      Buy a drillpress vice, also. There's a HFT up in Everett or down in Tacoma.
      Remember, their items are mostly cheap Chinese made but most work great for
      home shops.
      Good Luck,
      Tom Carroll


      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Chris Vancil
      A good center punch is a good idea as well. Sharp drill bits and oil... For metals... try Online Metals (http//:www.onlinemetals.com/) 1138 West Ewing
      Message 2 of 16 , Apr 2, 2003
        A good center punch is a good idea as well. Sharp drill bits and
        oil...

        For metals... try Online Metals (http//:www.onlinemetals.com/)
        1138 West Ewing Seattle, WA 98119 Phone: (800) 704-2157 OR (206) 285-
        8603

        So Online Metals is just off of West Nickerson Street between the
        Ballard Bridge and Fremont Bridge...north of Queen Anne...south side
        of Interbay...

        But, they ship...so Online Metals would work for almost anyone on
        this list and they have reasonable prices and are nice folks...

        BTW, on the Eastside I like Home Depot or McLendon's over Lowes for
        metals and hardware.

        --Chris Vancil

        PS Thanks, Gordon.


        --- In SeattleRobotics@yahoogroups.com, "gordonmccomb" <gmccomb@g...>
        wrote:
        > --- In SeattleRobotics@yahoogroups.com, Fred Kerr (usa.net) Do they
        > just need to be
        > > sharpened, or are they destroyed? How long should a drill bit
        last
        > when
        > > drilling metal?
        >
        > You don't mention if your Dremel has a speed control or what it was
        > set at, but drilling into steel (even the "wrought iron" they sell
        at
        > Lowe's) requires the speed of the bit to be fairly slow -- maybe
        500
        > rpm or so for thicker stovk, up to about 1000 rpm for thinner.
        >
        > As necessary, use a cutting oil to prevent heat build-up,
        > particularly with small bits. The smaller the bit, the faster the
        bit
        > will heat up, because the heat cannot be readily dissipated. Heat
        is
        > what caused your bits to wear out prematurely.
        >
        > The bits can be sharpened if you'd like. I personally would forget
        > the cobalt-coated bits and just use a good set of high speed twist
        > bits. They can be resharpened many times without removing any
        > coating, and are well-suited for use with low-carbon steel.
        >
        > -- Gordon
      • John Edwards
        ... From: Chris Vancil To: Sent: Wednesday, April 02, 2003 3:41 PM Subject: [SeattleRobotics] Re:
        Message 3 of 16 , Apr 2, 2003
          ----- Original Message -----
          From: "Chris Vancil" <clvancil@...>
          To: <SeattleRobotics@yahoogroups.com>
          Sent: Wednesday, April 02, 2003 3:41 PM
          Subject: [SeattleRobotics] Re: metal supplies


          > A good center punch is a good idea as well.

          Unless you are trying to drill stainless steel.
          Center punching stainless will compress
          the molecules and harden it making it
          extremely difficult to drill.

          John Edwards
        • gordonmccomb
          ... Barring using a center bit to start the hole, I find a prick punch doesn t cause too much problems, as the detent is very small. IMO, it s also a good idea
          Message 4 of 16 , Apr 2, 2003
            --- In SeattleRobotics@yahoogroups.com, "John Edwards"
            <botbuilder@c...> wrote:
            > > A good center punch is a good idea as well.
            >
            > Unless you are trying to drill stainless steel.
            > Center punching stainless will compress
            > the molecules and harden it making it
            > extremely difficult to drill.

            Barring using a center bit to start the hole, I find a prick punch
            doesn't cause too much problems, as the detent is very small. IMO,
            it's also a good idea to use a wider face on the drill bit -- 135°
            split point (or more), rather than the typical 118° twist bit.
            Less "dogging" as the drill pushes through the metal, as well.

            Still, a $20 (or so) investment in a center bit certainly helps if
            you're working with the harder metals.

            -- Gordon
          • Tom Capon
            are the center bits you are talking about the ones with the little point, then the full bit all at once about 1/8 up? I found a bunch of them in the bottom
            Message 5 of 16 , Apr 2, 2003
              are the "center bits" you are talking about the ones with the little point,
              then the full bit all at once about 1/8" up? I found a bunch of them in
              the bottom of my toolbox and they do work extremely well for metal and
              plastics.

              At 09:15 PM 4/2/2003 +0000, gordonmccomb wrote:
              >--- In SeattleRobotics@yahoogroups.com, "John Edwards"
              ><botbuilder@c...> wrote:
              > > > A good center punch is a good idea as well.
              > >
              > > Unless you are trying to drill stainless steel.
              > > Center punching stainless will compress
              > > the molecules and harden it making it
              > > extremely difficult to drill.
              >
              >Barring using a center bit to start the hole, I find a prick punch
              >doesn't cause too much problems, as the detent is very small. IMO,
              >it's also a good idea to use a wider face on the drill bit -- 135°
              >split point (or more), rather than the typical 118° twist bit.
              >Less "dogging" as the drill pushes through the metal, as well.
              >
              >Still, a $20 (or so) investment in a center bit certainly helps if
              >you're working with the harder metals.
              >
              >-- Gordon
              >
              >
              >
              >Visit the SRS Website at http://www.seattlerobotics.org
              >
              >To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
              >SeattleRobotics-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
              >
              >
              >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
            • gordonmccomb
              Those sound more like brad point bits. A center bit has a small fluted end and a very heavy shank. It s made to drill a small, shallow pilot hole. Because it
              Message 6 of 16 , Apr 2, 2003
                Those sound more like brad point bits. A center bit has a small
                fluted end and a very heavy shank. It's made to drill a small,
                shallow pilot hole. Because it has a heavy shank, the bit doesn't
                deflect as easily while drilling, so the bit won't skate before the
                hole is started.

                Some folks call them spotting bits. They are almost always very
                expensive -- $20 on up, and come in just one or two sizes.

                -- Gordon


                --- In SeattleRobotics@yahoogroups.com, Tom Capon <robot@d...> wrote:
                > are the "center bits" you are talking about the ones with the
                little point,
                > then the full bit all at once about 1/8" up? I found a bunch of
                them in
                > the bottom of my toolbox and they do work extremely well for metal
                and
                > plastics.
              • John Edwards
                Gordon, Actually they come in a variety of sizes. I have some with the main shank varying from 1/8 to a full 1 . Many times these center bits are double ended
                Message 7 of 16 , Apr 3, 2003
                  Gordon,

                  Actually they come in a variety of sizes. I have some with
                  the main shank varying from 1/8" to a full 1". Many times
                  these center bits are double ended also.

                  John Edwards


                  ----- Original Message -----
                  From: "gordonmccomb" <gmccomb@...>
                  To: <SeattleRobotics@yahoogroups.com>
                  Sent: Wednesday, April 02, 2003 11:07 PM
                  Subject: [SeattleRobotics] Re: metal supplies


                  > Those sound more like brad point bits. A center bit has a small
                  > fluted end and a very heavy shank. It's made to drill a small,
                  > shallow pilot hole. Because it has a heavy shank, the bit doesn't
                  > deflect as easily while drilling, so the bit won't skate before the
                  > hole is started.
                  >
                  > Some folks call them spotting bits. They are almost always very
                  > expensive -- $20 on up, and come in just one or two sizes.
                  >
                  > -- Gordon
                  >
                  >
                  > --- In SeattleRobotics@yahoogroups.com, Tom Capon <robot@d...> wrote:
                  > > are the "center bits" you are talking about the ones with the
                  > little point,
                  > > then the full bit all at once about 1/8" up? I found a bunch of
                  > them in
                  > > the bottom of my toolbox and they do work extremely well for metal
                  > and
                  > > plastics.
                  >
                  >
                  > Visit the SRS Website at http://www.seattlerobotics.org
                  >
                  > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                  > SeattleRobotics-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                  >
                  >
                  > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                  >
                  >
                • gordonmccomb
                  ... I understand that *somewhere* a wide variety of sizes of center bits can be found, but I was talking more about what someone would find when they went
                  Message 8 of 16 , Apr 3, 2003
                    --- In SeattleRobotics@yahoogroups.com, "John Edwards"
                    <botbuilder@c...> wrote:
                    > Gordon,
                    >
                    > Actually they come in a variety of sizes. I have some with
                    > the main shank varying from 1/8" to a full 1". Many times
                    > these center bits are double ended also.

                    I understand that *somewhere* a wide variety of sizes of center bits
                    can be found, but I was talking more about what someone would find
                    when they went looking for them at the average tool depot (not
                    Lowe's, but a real tool shop).

                    In my experience, most carry just one or two popular sizes (I see
                    Grainger sells three sizes, that I could find, which is better than
                    average). I can well imagine there are center bits made for ship
                    building that are two or three inches in diameter, but I didn't think
                    those were under discussion! <g>

                    I personally wouldn't use a double-ended center drill in a drill
                    press with a chuck. Those sound like they're center bits for a mill,
                    using a collet.

                    -- Gordon
                  • Kevin Ross
                    I agree that 4th ave S is the best place to find steel. However, you will also find an Everett Steel in Woodinville if you don t want to brave the bridges.
                    Message 9 of 16 , Apr 3, 2003
                      I agree that 4th ave S is the 'best' place to find steel. However, you will
                      also find an Everett Steel in Woodinville if you don't want to brave the
                      bridges.

                      Kevin

                      -----Original Message-----
                      From: Steve Safarik [mailto:ssafarik@...]
                      Sent: Tuesday, April 01, 2003 10:01 PM
                      To: SeattleRobotics@yahoogroups.com
                      Subject: Re: [SeattleRobotics] metal supplies


                      Well, in Seattle a few of the best places are just south of downtown:
                      * Pacific Industrial Supply on 4th S
                      * Pacific Iron & Building Materials on 4th S
                      * Alaskan Copper & Brass on 6th S
                      * Metal Shorts on 6th S

                      The first three are the better ones. Pacific Industrial is a treasure trove
                      of all shapes and sizes of all types of metal, plus lots of industrial
                      "parts" like wheels, cases, chain, hydraulics, tools, etc. Pacific Iron
                      focuses on building materials (surplus doors), but has a decent metals area
                      w/ aluminum, copper, brass, steel, etc, in sheet/rod/angle/misc shapes.
                      Alaskan Copper just does metal, and most of it is new, and in 25 ft lengths
                      or something, but they have a "shorts" area that is worth looking through.

                      S
                    • Rob Purdy
                      And it s still a lot cheaper than yor local Hardware store! ... _________________________________________________________________ Add photos to your messages
                      Message 10 of 16 , Apr 3, 2003
                        And it's still a lot cheaper than yor local Hardware store!






                        >From: "Kevin Ross" <kevinro@...>
                        >To: "'Steve Safarik'"
                        ><ssafarik@...>,<SeattleRobotics@yahoogroups.com>
                        >Subject: RE: [SeattleRobotics] metal supplies
                        >Date: Thu, 3 Apr 2003 19:05:44 -0800
                        >
                        >I agree that 4th ave S is the 'best' place to find steel. However, you will
                        >also find an Everett Steel in Woodinville if you don't want to brave the
                        >bridges.
                        >
                        >Kevin
                        >
                        >-----Original Message-----
                        >From: Steve Safarik [mailto:ssafarik@...]
                        >Sent: Tuesday, April 01, 2003 10:01 PM
                        >To: SeattleRobotics@yahoogroups.com
                        >Subject: Re: [SeattleRobotics] metal supplies
                        >
                        >
                        >Well, in Seattle a few of the best places are just south of downtown:
                        >* Pacific Industrial Supply on 4th S
                        >* Pacific Iron & Building Materials on 4th S
                        >* Alaskan Copper & Brass on 6th S
                        >* Metal Shorts on 6th S
                        >
                        >The first three are the better ones. Pacific Industrial is a treasure
                        >trove
                        >of all shapes and sizes of all types of metal, plus lots of industrial
                        >"parts" like wheels, cases, chain, hydraulics, tools, etc. Pacific Iron
                        >focuses on building materials (surplus doors), but has a decent metals area
                        >w/ aluminum, copper, brass, steel, etc, in sheet/rod/angle/misc shapes.
                        >Alaskan Copper just does metal, and most of it is new, and in 25 ft lengths
                        >or something, but they have a "shorts" area that is worth looking through.
                        >
                        >S
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >Visit the SRS Website at http://www.seattlerobotics.org
                        >
                        >To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                        >SeattleRobotics-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                        >
                        >
                        >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                        >
                        >


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                      • FThompson9@aol.com
                        Try the home improvement hardware store (like Home Depot). Near lumber they have a section for Mending Plates. These are galvanized plates punch cut to
                        Message 11 of 16 , Apr 4, 2003
                          Try the home improvement hardware store (like Home Depot). Near
                          lumber they have a section for "Mending Plates." These are galvanized plates
                          punch cut to several shapes with holes. There are some that are bent as
                          well. You can bend them with a vice and hammer, drill more holes with a hand
                          drill. They are quite strong and I have had a fair amount of success with
                          them. You also might want to check the plumbing section for 1" metal
                          strapping (plumbers tape). There is also some angle iron with regular holes
                          punched in the "hardware" section. (It always bothers me when there is a
                          hardware section in a hardware store.)

                          Hope this helps.
                          Pherd
                          Somers, CT




                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        • Chris Vancil
                          ... Never heard that before. I ve had to cut a few holes in sinks and sheet SS for around ovens and as back splashes, but never was a big fan of it. I
                          Message 12 of 16 , Apr 5, 2003
                            --- In SeattleRobotics@yahoogroups.com, "John Edwards"
                            <botbuilder@c...> wrote:
                            >
                            > ----- Original Message -----
                            > From: "Chris Vancil" <clvancil@y...>
                            > To: <SeattleRobotics@yahoogroups.com>
                            > Sent: Wednesday, April 02, 2003 3:41 PM
                            > Subject: [SeattleRobotics] Re: metal supplies
                            >
                            >
                            > > A good center punch is a good idea as well.
                            >
                            > Unless you are trying to drill stainless steel.
                            > Center punching stainless will compress
                            > the molecules and harden it making it
                            > extremely difficult to drill.
                            >
                            > John Edwards

                            Never heard that before. I've had to cut a few holes in sinks and
                            sheet SS for around ovens and as back splashes, but never was a big
                            fan of it. I wouldn't expect to many robot homebrewers to use SS
                            unless they had some important reason to do so.

                            When it comes to cheap and easy materials to deal with why would you
                            choose stainless over say aluminum or mild steel?

                            --Chris Vancil
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