Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.

Specific search tuning question in FAST ESP

Expand Messages
  • schneider_karin
    Does anyone have experience with tuning FAST ESP to return only hits on exactly one word and specifically exclude the word in another context? e.g find: Snow
    Message 1 of 7 , Feb 1, 2008
    • 0 Attachment
      Does anyone have experience with tuning FAST ESP to return only hits on
      exactly one word and specifically exclude the word in another context?
      e.g find: "Snow" but result should exclude "snow storm"
      Can that be handled through exclusions in the synonym dictionary? Or is
      there another way?
      Thanks for any help anyone may have!

      Regards,
      Karin
    • Richard Beatch
      Karin, I spoke with my search architect on this. He knows FAST about as well as anyone I have ever met, including the top engineers at ... I can t think of
      Message 2 of 7 , Feb 6, 2008
      • 0 Attachment
        Karin,

        I spoke with my search architect on this. He knows FAST about as
        well as anyone I have ever met, including the top engineers at
        FAST. So, here is his response:

        ----
        I can't think of anyway to do it via synonyms... only by creating
        the actual queries yourself as follows:

        I'd try using the ONEAR operator and do something like snow ANDNOT
        ONEAR(snow,storm,n=0). The syntax is probalby a little of, but it
        shoudl be close... "find me all the docs with the word snow, but
        exclude the ones with snow within n words of storm.

        If phrase support is enabled on the composite field, then in theory,
        snow ANDNOT "snow storm" should work, but I wouldn't bet the farm on
        it without trying it first.
        ----

        Hope this helps,

        Richard

        --- In SearchCoP@yahoogroups.com, "schneider_karin" <kschnei1@...>
        wrote:
        >
        > Does anyone have experience with tuning FAST ESP to return only
        hits on
        > exactly one word and specifically exclude the word in another
        context?
        > e.g find: "Snow" but result should exclude "snow storm"
        > Can that be handled through exclusions in the synonym dictionary?
        Or is
        > there another way?
        > Thanks for any help anyone may have!
        >
        > Regards,
        > Karin
        >
      • Smith, Lisa
        Can t say I have much experience with FAST, but that seems clunky. No utility to say One word results only , huh? Is there maybe a way in the rules to do a
        Message 3 of 7 , Feb 6, 2008
        • 0 Attachment
          Can't say I have much experience with FAST, but that seems clunky. No utility to say "One word results only", huh? Is there maybe a way in the rules to do a kind of regular expression that looks for a line or field terminator after "snow"? Or at least to say "Find snow without another alphanumeric character or space after or before it? For example, such a matching expression using perl might be /^snow$/ or /^snow(\n|\r|\f)$/ or simply that the string must equal "=" the query rather than be an approximate match "=~" to it.
          Hope that makes sense. I don't know what an equivalent in FAST might be.


          Lisa M. Smith
          Director, Taxonomy
          1-310-586-4198
          lsmith@...

          <https://email.business.com/exchweb/bin/redir.asp?URL=http://www.business.com>


          Business.com · 2120 Colorado Ave. 3rd Floor · Santa Monica, CA 90404




          ________________________________

          From: SearchCoP@yahoogroups.com on behalf of Richard Beatch
          Sent: Wed 2/6/2008 7:05 AM
          To: SearchCoP@yahoogroups.com
          Subject: [SearchCoP] Re: Specific search tuning question in FAST ESP



          Karin,

          I spoke with my search architect on this. He knows FAST about as
          well as anyone I have ever met, including the top engineers at
          FAST. So, here is his response:

          ----
          I can't think of anyway to do it via synonyms... only by creating
          the actual queries yourself as follows:

          I'd try using the ONEAR operator and do something like snow ANDNOT
          ONEAR(snow,storm,n=0). The syntax is probalby a little of, but it
          shoudl be close... "find me all the docs with the word snow, but
          exclude the ones with snow within n words of storm.

          If phrase support is enabled on the composite field, then in theory,
          snow ANDNOT "snow storm" should work, but I wouldn't bet the farm on
          it without trying it first.
          ----

          Hope this helps,

          Richard

          --- In SearchCoP@yahoogroups.com <mailto:SearchCoP%40yahoogroups.com> , "schneider_karin" <kschnei1@...>
          wrote:
          >
          > Does anyone have experience with tuning FAST ESP to return only
          hits on
          > exactly one word and specifically exclude the word in another
          context?
          > e.g find: "Snow" but result should exclude "snow storm"
          > Can that be handled through exclusions in the synonym dictionary?
          Or is
          > there another way?
          > Thanks for any help anyone may have!
          >
          > Regards,
          > Karin
          >
        • Richard Beatch
          While the approach may seem a little cumbersome, remember, searching an inverted index, which is a requirement for any sort of scalability, is rather unlike a
          Message 4 of 7 , Feb 7, 2008
          • 0 Attachment
            While the approach may seem a little cumbersome, remember, searching
            an inverted index, which is a requirement for any sort of
            scalability, is rather unlike a database query or a perl script. If
            my memory serves, Autonomy and, until recently, Verity, did not
            offer much more in this regard.

            --Richard

            --- In SearchCoP@yahoogroups.com, "Smith, Lisa" <lsmith@...> wrote:
            >
            > Can't say I have much experience with FAST, but that seems clunky.
            No utility to say "One word results only", huh? Is there maybe a way
            in the rules to do a kind of regular expression that looks for a
            line or field terminator after "snow"? Or at least to say "Find snow
            without another alphanumeric character or space after or before it?
            For example, such a matching expression using perl might be /^snow$/
            or /^snow(\n|\r|\f)$/ or simply that the string must equal "=" the
            query rather than be an approximate match "=~" to it.
            > Hope that makes sense. I don't know what an equivalent in FAST
            might be.
            >
            >
            > Lisa M. Smith
            > Director, Taxonomy
            > 1-310-586-4198
            > lsmith@...
            >
            > <https://email.business.com/exchweb/bin/redir.asp?
            URL=http://www.business.com>
            >
            >
            > Business.com · 2120 Colorado Ave. 3rd Floor · Santa Monica, CA
            90404
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > ________________________________
            >
            > From: SearchCoP@yahoogroups.com on behalf of Richard Beatch
            > Sent: Wed 2/6/2008 7:05 AM
            > To: SearchCoP@yahoogroups.com
            > Subject: [SearchCoP] Re: Specific search tuning question in FAST
            ESP
            >
            >
            >
            > Karin,
            >
            > I spoke with my search architect on this. He knows FAST about as
            > well as anyone I have ever met, including the top engineers at
            > FAST. So, here is his response:
            >
            > ----
            > I can't think of anyway to do it via synonyms... only by creating
            > the actual queries yourself as follows:
            >
            > I'd try using the ONEAR operator and do something like snow ANDNOT
            > ONEAR(snow,storm,n=0). The syntax is probalby a little of, but it
            > shoudl be close... "find me all the docs with the word snow, but
            > exclude the ones with snow within n words of storm.
            >
            > If phrase support is enabled on the composite field, then in
            theory,
            > snow ANDNOT "snow storm" should work, but I wouldn't bet the farm
            on
            > it without trying it first.
            > ----
            >
            > Hope this helps,
            >
            > Richard
            >
            > --- In SearchCoP@yahoogroups.com <mailto:SearchCoP%
            40yahoogroups.com> , "schneider_karin" <kschnei1@>
            > wrote:
            > >
            > > Does anyone have experience with tuning FAST ESP to return only
            > hits on
            > > exactly one word and specifically exclude the word in another
            > context?
            > > e.g find: "Snow" but result should exclude "snow storm"
            > > Can that be handled through exclusions in the synonym
            dictionary?
            > Or is
            > > there another way?
            > > Thanks for any help anyone may have!
            > >
            > > Regards,
            > > Karin
            > >
            >
          • Smith, Lisa
            Fair enough. Just seems like this shouldn t be such a hurdle. Lisa Smith Director, Taxonomy Business.com(r) - an R.H. Donnelley company 310-586-4198 office
            Message 5 of 7 , Feb 7, 2008
            • 0 Attachment
              Fair enough. Just seems like this shouldn't be such a hurdle.
               

              Lisa Smith
              Director, Taxonomy
              Business.com® - an R.H. Donnelley company 
              310-586-4198 office
              310-586-4054 fax
              lsmith@...
              www.business.com
               

              As the leading business search engine and directory and pay-per-click advertising network, Business.com is a “must buy” for B2B advertisers.

              Latest News - Business.com named toLos Angeles Business Journal’s list of Best Places to Work. Click here to read more.

               


              From: SearchCoP@yahoogroups.com [mailto:SearchCoP@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Richard Beatch
              Sent: Thursday, February 07, 2008 11:22 AM
              To: SearchCoP@yahoogroups.com
              Subject: [SearchCoP] Re: Specific search tuning question in FAST ESP

              While the approach may seem a little cumbersome, remember, searching
              an inverted index, which is a requirement for any sort of
              scalability, is rather unlike a database query or a perl script. If
              my memory serves, Autonomy and, until recently, Verity, did not
              offer much more in this regard.

              --Richard

              --- In SearchCoP@yahoogrou ps.com, "Smith, Lisa" <lsmith@...> wrote:

              >
              > Can't say I have much
              experience with FAST, but that seems clunky.
              No utility to say "One word results only", huh? Is there maybe a way
              in the rules to do a kind of regular expression that looks for a
              line or field terminator after "snow"? Or at least to say "Find snow
              without another alphanumeric character or space after or before it?
              For example, such a matching expression using perl might be /^snow$/
              or /^snow(\n|\r| \f)$/ or simply that the string must equal "=" the
              query rather than be an approximate match "=~" to it.
              >
              Hope that makes sense. I don't know what an equivalent in FAST
              might be.
              >
              >
              > Lisa M. Smith
              > Director, Taxonomy
              >
              1-310-586-4198
              > lsmith@...
              >
              > <
              href="https://email.business.com/exchweb/bin/redir.asp?">https://email. business. com/exchweb/ bin/redir. asp?
              URL=http://www.business .com>
              >
              >
              > Business.com · 2120 Colorado Ave. 3rd Floor · Santa Monica, CA
              90404
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              ____________ _________ _________ __
              >
              > From:
              href="mailto:SearchCoP%40yahoogroups.com">SearchCoP@yahoogrou ps.com on behalf of Richard Beatch
              > Sent: Wed 2/6/2008 7:05 AM
              > To:
              href="mailto:SearchCoP%40yahoogroups.com">SearchCoP@yahoogrou ps.com
              >
              Subject: [SearchCoP] Re: Specific search tuning question in FAST
              ESP
              >
              >
              >
              > Karin,
              >
              > I spoke with my search
              architect on this. He knows FAST about as
              > well as anyone I have ever
              met, including the top engineers at
              > FAST. So, here is his
              response:
              >
              > ----
              > I can't think of anyway to do it via
              synonyms... only by creating
              > the actual queries yourself as
              follows:
              >
              > I'd try using the ONEAR operator and do something like
              snow ANDNOT
              > ONEAR(snow,storm, n=0). The syntax is probalby a little
              of, but it
              > shoudl be close... "find me all the docs with the word snow,
              but
              > exclude the ones with snow within n words of storm.
              >
              > If phrase support is enabled on the composite field, then in
              theory,
              > snow ANDNOT "snow storm" should work, but I wouldn't bet
              the farm
              on
              > it without trying it first.
              > ----
              >
              > Hope this helps,
              >
              > Richard
              >
              > --- In
              href="mailto:SearchCoP%40yahoogroups.com">SearchCoP@yahoogrou ps.com <mailto:SearchCoP%
              40yahoogroups. com> , "schneider_karin" <kschnei1@>
              > wrote:
              > >
              > > Does anyone have
              experience with tuning FAST ESP to return only
              > hits on
              > >
              exactly one word and specifically exclude the word in another
              >
              context?
              > > e.g find: "Snow" but result should exclude "snow
              storm"
              > > Can that be handled through exclusions in the synonym
              dictionary?
              > Or is
              > > there another way?
              > >
              Thanks for any help anyone may have!
              > >
              > > Regards,
              > > Karin
              > >
              >

            • Walter Underwood
              This isn t as easy as it seems. What about these fragments with text after the word snow : Smilla s Sense of Snow Smilla s Sense of Snow,
              Message 6 of 7 , Feb 7, 2008
              • 0 Attachment
                Re: [SearchCoP] Re: Specific search tuning question in FAST ESP This isn't as easy as it seems. What about these fragments with text after the word "snow":

                 <tiltle>Smilla's Sense of Snow</title>
                  Smilla's Sense of Snow, Peter Hoeg
                  Fred came in from the snow, stormy expression still on his face.

                Even if an engine can do this, it is likely to be slow.

                I suspect an "XY Problem", where you have problem "X", want to solve it with "Y", and are asking us about "Y". Instead, tell us about "X". I see this a lot with search engines. People have a mental model of the engine that isn't quite accurate, so they choose approaches that are suboptimal or even impossible.

                http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/XY_problem

                wunder

                On 2/7/08 11:21 AM, "Richard Beatch" <rbeatch@...> wrote:

                While the approach may seem a little cumbersome, remember, searching
                an inverted index, which is a requirement for any sort of
                scalability, is rather unlike a database query or a perl script.  If
                my memory serves, Autonomy and, until recently, Verity, did not
                offer much more in this regard.

                --Richard

                --- In SearchCoP@yahoogroups.com <mailto:SearchCoP%40yahoogroups.com> , "Smith, Lisa" <lsmith@...> wrote:
                >
                > Can't say I have much experience with FAST, but that seems clunky.
                No utility to say "One word results only", huh? Is there maybe a way
                in the rules to do a kind of regular expression that looks for a
                line or field terminator after "snow"? Or at least to say "Find snow
                without another alphanumeric character or space after or before it?
                For example, such a matching expression using perl might be /^snow$/
                or /^snow(\n|\r|\f)$/ or simply that the string must equal "=" the
                query rather than be an approximate match "=~" to it.
                > Hope that makes sense. I don't know what an equivalent in FAST
                might be.
                >  
                >  
                > Lisa M. Smith
                > Director, Taxonomy
                > 1-310-586-4198
                > lsmith@...
                >  
                >  <https://email.business.com/exchweb/bin/redir.asp?
                URL=http://www.business.com>
                >
                >  
                > Business.com · 2120 Colorado Ave. 3rd Floor · Santa Monica, CA
                90404
                >  
                >  
                >  
                >
                > ________________________________
                >
                > From: SearchCoP@yahoogroups.com <mailto:SearchCoP%40yahoogroups.com>  on behalf of Richard Beatch
                > Sent: Wed 2/6/2008 7:05 AM
                > To: SearchCoP@yahoogroups.com <mailto:SearchCoP%40yahoogroups.com>
                > Subject: [SearchCoP] Re: Specific search tuning question in FAST
                ESP
                >
                >
                >
                > Karin,
                >
                > I spoke with my search architect on this. He knows FAST about as
                > well as anyone I have ever met, including the top engineers at
                > FAST. So, here is his response:
                >
                > ----
                > I can't think of anyway to do it via synonyms... only by creating
                > the actual queries yourself as follows:
                >
                > I'd try using the ONEAR operator and do something like snow ANDNOT
                > ONEAR(snow,storm,n=0). The syntax is probalby a little of, but it
                > shoudl be close... "find me all the docs with the word snow, but
                > exclude the ones with snow within n words of storm.
                >
                > If phrase support is enabled on the composite field, then in
                theory,
                > snow ANDNOT "snow storm" should work, but I wouldn't bet the farm
                on
                > it without trying it first.
                > ----
                >
                > Hope this helps,
                >
                > Richard
                >
                > --- In SearchCoP@yahoogroups.com <mailto:SearchCoP%40yahoogroups.com>  <mailto:SearchCoP%
                40yahoogroups.com> , "schneider_karin" <kschnei1@>
                > wrote:
                > >
                > > Does anyone have experience with tuning FAST ESP to return only
                > hits on
                > > exactly one word and specifically exclude the word in another
                > context?
                > > e.g find: "Snow" but result should exclude "snow storm"
                > > Can that be handled through exclusions in the synonym
                dictionary?
                > Or is
                > > there another way?
                > > Thanks for any help anyone may have!
                > >
                > > Regards,
                > > Karin
                > >
                >

                 
                    

              • schneider_karin
                Richard, thanks a lot. This is it! Please extend my thanks to your FAST wiz!! Regards, Karin ... theory, ... on
                Message 7 of 7 , Feb 7, 2008
                • 0 Attachment
                  Richard, thanks a lot. This is it!
                  Please extend my thanks to your FAST wiz!!
                  Regards,
                  Karin

                  --- In SearchCoP@yahoogroups.com, "Richard Beatch" <rbeatch@...>
                  wrote:
                  >
                  > Karin,
                  >
                  > I spoke with my search architect on this. He knows FAST about as
                  > well as anyone I have ever met, including the top engineers at
                  > FAST. So, here is his response:
                  >
                  > ----
                  > I can't think of anyway to do it via synonyms... only by creating
                  > the actual queries yourself as follows:
                  >
                  > I'd try using the ONEAR operator and do something like snow ANDNOT
                  > ONEAR(snow,storm,n=0). The syntax is probalby a little of, but it
                  > shoudl be close... "find me all the docs with the word snow, but
                  > exclude the ones with snow within n words of storm.
                  >
                  > If phrase support is enabled on the composite field, then in
                  theory,
                  > snow ANDNOT "snow storm" should work, but I wouldn't bet the farm
                  on
                  > it without trying it first.
                  > ----
                  >
                  > Hope this helps,
                  >
                  > Richard
                  >
                  > --- In SearchCoP@yahoogroups.com, "schneider_karin" <kschnei1@>
                  > wrote:
                  > >
                  > > Does anyone have experience with tuning FAST ESP to return only
                  > hits on
                  > > exactly one word and specifically exclude the word in another
                  > context?
                  > > e.g find: "Snow" but result should exclude "snow storm"
                  > > Can that be handled through exclusions in the synonym dictionary?
                  > Or is
                  > > there another way?
                  > > Thanks for any help anyone may have!
                  > >
                  > > Regards,
                  > > Karin
                  > >
                  >
                Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.