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Re: 20 Meter JOTA CW and PSK31 Conflict

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  • kr1zan
    I like what John is saying here. Last night I was composing a similar message and clicked on the wrong button and lost my message -- probably a good thing!
    Message 1 of 10 , Apr 22, 2003
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      I like what John is saying here. Last night I was composing a
      similar message and clicked on the wrong button and lost my message --
      probably a good thing!

      Rather than "calling frequencies" for Radio Scouting, how about
      recommended segments of bands for Radio Scouting activities,
      including JOTA. Many times I'm asked for skeds with US and foreign
      Scout units on the International Scouting Frequencies. When the time
      comes, those frequencies and many kHz around them are saturated.
      Sometimes we find each other, sometimes we don't.

      Or, to keep it simple, how about using John's concept and suggest
      recommended US Scouting frequencies as Technician, Tech Plus and
      General allocations to allow as many folks as possible to get on
      compatible frequencies. The guidelines could include frequencies or
      portions of bands that should be avoided or used for specific modes
      (i.e., SSTV, PSK-31, RTTY, etc). If you want a sked, just pick a
      frequency -- all of my skeds have been set up via email or packet, as
      opposed to an implication of using the International Scouting
      Frequency.

      The World Jamboree in Thailand announced they would be on the
      Scouting Frequencies and to the best of my knowledge, they always
      showed up on something other than those frequencies. So, what's the
      purpose of those frequencies anyway? -- use reality when answering
      that question.

      Back to what John was commenting on ... maybe it's time for JOTA to
      become more localized for introductions ... use VHF/UHF and amateur
      radio demos. Scouts who have learned more about Ham Radio, perhaps
      have their licenses, might try to work other radio oriented Scout
      groups using HF or satellites. Even though it's not supposed to be a
      contest, embellish the JOTA patch with a WAC, or WAS, or WAD (Worked
      All call sign Districts) or DX-X, or DX-n (the X is for 10 countries
      confirmed, the n is for some number, perhaps an endorsement). JOTA
      for older Scouts might become a Scouting Field Day.

      Just some thoughts.

      73, Frank KR1ZAN
      Advisor, Venturer Crew 73 - K5BSA
      Richardson, TX

      ----- Original Message -----
      From: Kd5inm@...
      To: scoutradio@yahoogroups.com
      Sent: Tuesday, April 22, 2003 1:07 PM
      Subject: [Scoutradio] 20 Meter JOTA CW and PSK31 Conflict



      I don't think CW should be used during JOTA. I think we as Hams
      should focus on aspects of the hobby that are available to a
      Technician class license. It's kinda ignorant to show them aspects of
      the hobby in which they will have no involvement in with the ENTRY
      LEVEL TICKET. Show them what THEY can accomplish in a reasonable
      time, only the ones who really have an interest in CW will persue CW
      after JOTA, the rest won't/can't see themselves doing it, it's not
      beneficial to Ham radio or the scouts to demonstrate CW.

      <<<<< Rest of message snipped out >>>>>
    • kb1flr
      Hi John, I would respectfully disagree with your statements regarding the use of CW. CW IS available to Technicians. Look at the bandplans. All VHF and UHF
      Message 2 of 10 , Apr 28, 2003
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        Hi John,

        I would respectfully disagree with your statements regarding the use
        of CW. CW IS available to Technicians. Look at the bandplans. All VHF
        and UHF allocations have sub bands for CW and SSB and Technicians
        have full rights and privileges in these areas. Just because CW is
        not required for a Tech license does not mean it cannot be used.

        I have given Ham radio demonstrations to my wife's Girl Scout troop,
        of which my daughter is a member. The kids were so interested in
        using the oscillator that they would sneak back from the other
        activities to practice sending. Kids love secret code type stuff and
        CW seems like that to them.

        In addition, many children who enter Ham radio feel intimidated by
        talking to adults on repeaters or HF. CW is a great equalizer in this
        regard.

        So please reconsider your view on the use of CW.

        Best Regards,
        Rick, KB1FLR
        --- In scoutradio@yahoogroups.com, Kd5inm@a... wrote:
        >
        > I don't think CW should be used during JOTA. I think we as Hams
        should
        > focus on aspects of the hobby that are available to a Technician
        class
        > license. It's kinda ignorant to show them aspects of the hobby in
        which they
        > will have no involvement in with the ENTRY LEVEL TICKET. Show them
        what THEY
        > can accomplish in a reasonable time, only the ones who really have
        an
        > interest in CW will persue CW after JOTA, the rest won't/can't see
        themselves
        > doing it, it's not beneficial to Ham radio or the scouts to
        demonstrate CW.
        > This is the problem with all the times Amateur radio is shown to
        the
        > public, some folks do not think about what they are doing. They
        should
        > demonstrate modes or bands that the scouts will get with the first
        license
        > they get, (which I'm afraid to pop everyone's bubble), but it's not
        gonna be
        > 99% of the time a license that gives them access to CW bands on HF.
        > JOTA should be a time that we teach the scouts, and show them
        what is
        > possible with some time spent studying(35 question test), and all
        the fun
        > they will have BREAKING NEW GROUND. HF is old, it is well
        established, we
        > basically know what it's gonna do, how it propagates, heck,
        sometimes we can
        > even predict it, but when you get into microwaves and other aspects
        of the
        > frequencies they get with the Technician class license, there is
        plenty of
        > room to actually do something that no other Ham has done before.
        For
        > instance, set a distance record, or complete a DX QSO when it was
        before
        > thought impossible. PSK31 and other digital modes that have gained
        use in HF
        > because it is something new , one of the few things "New" done at
        HF in
        > years. The thing is that folks forget, PSK31 and like digital modes
        aren't
        > just HF modes, they work anyplace, on ANY band, not just HF, some
        folks
        > forget that, other bands have PSK31 activity, above 30 mhz.
        > I think JOTA is a good project/program, I just feel we should
        show the
        > scouts what they can accomplish and show them how a Tech license
        can be used
        > in their activities as Scouts. Show them search and rescue, show
        them the use
        > of communications on Scout camps, how they can use it to find one
        another, or
        > to communicate between groups, when doing this, they aren't out
        with an HF
        > rig, they will most times have a HT(VHF/UHF), show them how they
        can setup a
        > local camp repeater, then use it to communicate amongst groups.
        Scouting is
        > great, but how many things can you think of that you might learn as
        a scout,
        > that you will use the REST OF YOUR LIFE! Ham radio is one, teach
        them and
        > get them licensed, then they will take that with them up into their
        80's or
        > higher age, and USE IT . Pitch a tent, or tie a rope into a knot
        or start a
        > fire, yeah, you are gonna be doing that in the back yard of your
        house when
        > you are 80-90 years old, not likely, but Ham radio is something
        they will
        > never outgrow.
        >
        > 73' John KD5INM
      • Malcolm - G4CXT
        I would support this point of view. I took radio to one camp which had a spy theme - when I offered to operate CW as a special agent you couldn t get near
        Message 3 of 10 , Apr 28, 2003
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          I would support this point of view. I took radio to one camp which had a
          "spy theme" - when I offered to operate CW as a "special agent" you
          couldn't get near the radio for the number of kids crowding round to
          witness it! Granted, they hadn't a clue what was being said, but to say
          they were intrigued would be an understatement!

          Its this kind of curiosity which ham radio plays to in adults & children
          alike - and if CW or PSK31 is what gets them to ask "I wonder if I could do
          that" then its mission accomplished in my view ... provided you have the
          means to feed that curiosity, of course.

          The only issue we have is that the published "Scout frequencies" show a CW
          calling frequency of 14.070MHz. Where you actually operate of course is
          entirely up to you. I suspect that precious few Scout to Scout CW QSOs
          result from random calling (and listening) on 14.070. In fact, I've NEVER
          listened there for any calls, and seldom operate above 14.060 MHz in any
          case! In practice therefore I think we are talking about a problem which is
          most unlikely to occur and if it does which is easily fixed.

          Despite this there is a case in my view for publishing an alternative Scout
          calling frequency (eg 14.067 MHz) - and this can only come from the
          auspices of WOSM to avoid any accusation of conflict with the now
          recognised & established PSK31 slot at 14.0725 MHz

          73

          Malcolm - G4CXT
          ADC(Scouts) - Woodbridge





          At , you wrote:
          >Hi John,
          >
          >I would respectfully disagree with your statements regarding the use
          >of CW. CW IS available to Technicians. Look at the bandplans. All VHF
          >and UHF allocations have sub bands for CW and SSB and Technicians
          >have full rights and privileges in these areas. Just because CW is
          >not required for a Tech license does not mean it cannot be used.
          >
          >I have given Ham radio demonstrations to my wife's Girl Scout troop,
          >of which my daughter is a member. The kids were so interested in
          >using the oscillator that they would sneak back from the other
          >activities to practice sending. Kids love secret code type stuff and
          >CW seems like that to them.
          >
          >In addition, many children who enter Ham radio feel intimidated by
          >talking to adults on repeaters or HF. CW is a great equalizer in this
          >regard.
          >
          >So please reconsider your view on the use of CW.
          >
          >Best Regards,
          >Rick, KB1FLR
        • kr1zan
          Hi all, I would argue that you re both correct. CW demonstrations are a lot of fun for the kids, especially when it s a no pressure personal challenge.
          Message 4 of 10 , Apr 28, 2003
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            Hi all,

            I would argue that you're both correct. CW "demonstrations" are a
            lot of fun for the kids, especially when it's a no pressure personal
            challenge. When CW is used for an actual on the air contact, the
            Scouts have no practical idea what's going on, they're spectators,
            not actual participants. They must take you at your word that the
            beeps and bonks truly represent what they asked you to send. It's
            kinda like watching a rock grow. I like the use of voice or keyboard
            for Scout to Scout contacts.

            Similar to CW GET that the ARRL used at a teacher's workshop, we
            often use HamScope or some other tools so the kids can try sending
            Morse and the computer interprets what they're sending. This is
            especially useful when you don't have operators who are skilled at CW
            themselves. A computer off to the side can be a lot of fun for kids
            to try -- send their name, etc.

            I would advocate that we get rid of the "calling frequencies" list
            and recommend the use of Technician, Tech Plus and General Class
            portions of the bands for JOTA. For other Scouting events, use
            whatever prearranged frequency makes sense for the two groups.
            The "calling frequencies" invariably fall on an existing QSO or Net.

            In the end, it all boils down to what equipment you have, what
            license class you have and what skills you have. Then, do the best
            to demo Ham Radio and get the Scouts on the air. When we have some
            bureaucracy dictating the frequencies to use and we get too wrapped
            up in the legalities then it stops being fun and the kids suffer. A
            lot of Hams I know are scared away from JOTA and Radio Scouting
            because of the guidelines (for those who are old hands at JOTA, etc.,
            take a look at the WOSM Radio Scouting pages, or the ARRL JOTA pages,
            and you'll see lots of words, which aren't needed for a local third
            party FM repeater contact). I usually work with them to make contact
            on a local repeater or simplex VHF/UHF frequency -- and we all have
            fun.

            73, Frank KR1ZAN
            Advisor Venturer Crew 73 - K5BSA
            Garland, TX



            --- In scoutradio@yahoogroups.com, "kb1flr" <kb1flr@h...> wrote:
            > Hi John,
            >
            > I would respectfully disagree with your statements regarding the
            use
            > of CW. CW IS available to Technicians. Look at the bandplans. All
            VHF
            > and UHF allocations have sub bands for CW and SSB and Technicians
            > have full rights and privileges in these areas. Just because CW is
            > not required for a Tech license does not mean it cannot be used.
            >
            <<<<< Rest of message(s) snipped out >>>>>
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