Re: 20 Meter JOTA CW and PSK31 Conflict
- I like what John is saying here. Last night I was composing a
similar message and clicked on the wrong button and lost my message --
probably a good thing!
Rather than "calling frequencies" for Radio Scouting, how about
recommended segments of bands for Radio Scouting activities,
including JOTA. Many times I'm asked for skeds with US and foreign
Scout units on the International Scouting Frequencies. When the time
comes, those frequencies and many kHz around them are saturated.
Sometimes we find each other, sometimes we don't.
Or, to keep it simple, how about using John's concept and suggest
recommended US Scouting frequencies as Technician, Tech Plus and
General allocations to allow as many folks as possible to get on
compatible frequencies. The guidelines could include frequencies or
portions of bands that should be avoided or used for specific modes
(i.e., SSTV, PSK-31, RTTY, etc). If you want a sked, just pick a
frequency -- all of my skeds have been set up via email or packet, as
opposed to an implication of using the International Scouting
The World Jamboree in Thailand announced they would be on the
Scouting Frequencies and to the best of my knowledge, they always
showed up on something other than those frequencies. So, what's the
purpose of those frequencies anyway? -- use reality when answering
Back to what John was commenting on ... maybe it's time for JOTA to
become more localized for introductions ... use VHF/UHF and amateur
radio demos. Scouts who have learned more about Ham Radio, perhaps
have their licenses, might try to work other radio oriented Scout
groups using HF or satellites. Even though it's not supposed to be a
contest, embellish the JOTA patch with a WAC, or WAS, or WAD (Worked
All call sign Districts) or DX-X, or DX-n (the X is for 10 countries
confirmed, the n is for some number, perhaps an endorsement). JOTA
for older Scouts might become a Scouting Field Day.
Just some thoughts.
73, Frank KR1ZAN
Advisor, Venturer Crew 73 - K5BSA
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Tuesday, April 22, 2003 1:07 PM
Subject: [Scoutradio] 20 Meter JOTA CW and PSK31 Conflict
I don't think CW should be used during JOTA. I think we as Hams
should focus on aspects of the hobby that are available to a
Technician class license. It's kinda ignorant to show them aspects of
the hobby in which they will have no involvement in with the ENTRY
LEVEL TICKET. Show them what THEY can accomplish in a reasonable
time, only the ones who really have an interest in CW will persue CW
after JOTA, the rest won't/can't see themselves doing it, it's not
beneficial to Ham radio or the scouts to demonstrate CW.
<<<<< Rest of message snipped out >>>>>
- Hi John,
I would respectfully disagree with your statements regarding the use
of CW. CW IS available to Technicians. Look at the bandplans. All VHF
and UHF allocations have sub bands for CW and SSB and Technicians
have full rights and privileges in these areas. Just because CW is
not required for a Tech license does not mean it cannot be used.
I have given Ham radio demonstrations to my wife's Girl Scout troop,
of which my daughter is a member. The kids were so interested in
using the oscillator that they would sneak back from the other
activities to practice sending. Kids love secret code type stuff and
CW seems like that to them.
In addition, many children who enter Ham radio feel intimidated by
talking to adults on repeaters or HF. CW is a great equalizer in this
So please reconsider your view on the use of CW.
--- In firstname.lastname@example.org, Kd5inm@a... wrote:
> I don't think CW should be used during JOTA. I think we as Hams
> focus on aspects of the hobby that are available to a Technician
> license. It's kinda ignorant to show them aspects of the hobby in
> will have no involvement in with the ENTRY LEVEL TICKET. Show them
> can accomplish in a reasonable time, only the ones who really have
> interest in CW will persue CW after JOTA, the rest won't/can't see
> doing it, it's not beneficial to Ham radio or the scouts to
> This is the problem with all the times Amateur radio is shown to
> public, some folks do not think about what they are doing. They
> demonstrate modes or bands that the scouts will get with the first
> they get, (which I'm afraid to pop everyone's bubble), but it's not
> 99% of the time a license that gives them access to CW bands on HF.
> JOTA should be a time that we teach the scouts, and show them
> possible with some time spent studying(35 question test), and all
> they will have BREAKING NEW GROUND. HF is old, it is well
> basically know what it's gonna do, how it propagates, heck,
sometimes we can
> even predict it, but when you get into microwaves and other aspects
> frequencies they get with the Technician class license, there is
> room to actually do something that no other Ham has done before.
> instance, set a distance record, or complete a DX QSO when it was
> thought impossible. PSK31 and other digital modes that have gained
use in HF
> because it is something new , one of the few things "New" done at
> years. The thing is that folks forget, PSK31 and like digital modes
> just HF modes, they work anyplace, on ANY band, not just HF, some
> forget that, other bands have PSK31 activity, above 30 mhz.
> I think JOTA is a good project/program, I just feel we should
> scouts what they can accomplish and show them how a Tech license
can be used
> in their activities as Scouts. Show them search and rescue, show
them the use
> of communications on Scout camps, how they can use it to find one
> to communicate between groups, when doing this, they aren't out
with an HF
> rig, they will most times have a HT(VHF/UHF), show them how they
can setup a
> local camp repeater, then use it to communicate amongst groups.
> great, but how many things can you think of that you might learn as
> that you will use the REST OF YOUR LIFE! Ham radio is one, teach
> get them licensed, then they will take that with them up into their
> higher age, and USE IT . Pitch a tent, or tie a rope into a knot
or start a
> fire, yeah, you are gonna be doing that in the back yard of your
> you are 80-90 years old, not likely, but Ham radio is something
> never outgrow.
> 73' John KD5INM
- I would support this point of view. I took radio to one camp which had a
"spy theme" - when I offered to operate CW as a "special agent" you
couldn't get near the radio for the number of kids crowding round to
witness it! Granted, they hadn't a clue what was being said, but to say
they were intrigued would be an understatement!
Its this kind of curiosity which ham radio plays to in adults & children
alike - and if CW or PSK31 is what gets them to ask "I wonder if I could do
that" then its mission accomplished in my view ... provided you have the
means to feed that curiosity, of course.
The only issue we have is that the published "Scout frequencies" show a CW
calling frequency of 14.070MHz. Where you actually operate of course is
entirely up to you. I suspect that precious few Scout to Scout CW QSOs
result from random calling (and listening) on 14.070. In fact, I've NEVER
listened there for any calls, and seldom operate above 14.060 MHz in any
case! In practice therefore I think we are talking about a problem which is
most unlikely to occur and if it does which is easily fixed.
Despite this there is a case in my view for publishing an alternative Scout
calling frequency (eg 14.067 MHz) - and this can only come from the
auspices of WOSM to avoid any accusation of conflict with the now
recognised & established PSK31 slot at 14.0725 MHz
Malcolm - G4CXT
ADC(Scouts) - Woodbridge
At , you wrote:
>I would respectfully disagree with your statements regarding the use
>of CW. CW IS available to Technicians. Look at the bandplans. All VHF
>and UHF allocations have sub bands for CW and SSB and Technicians
>have full rights and privileges in these areas. Just because CW is
>not required for a Tech license does not mean it cannot be used.
>I have given Ham radio demonstrations to my wife's Girl Scout troop,
>of which my daughter is a member. The kids were so interested in
>using the oscillator that they would sneak back from the other
>activities to practice sending. Kids love secret code type stuff and
>CW seems like that to them.
>In addition, many children who enter Ham radio feel intimidated by
>talking to adults on repeaters or HF. CW is a great equalizer in this
>So please reconsider your view on the use of CW.
- Hi all,
I would argue that you're both correct. CW "demonstrations" are a
lot of fun for the kids, especially when it's a no pressure personal
challenge. When CW is used for an actual on the air contact, the
Scouts have no practical idea what's going on, they're spectators,
not actual participants. They must take you at your word that the
beeps and bonks truly represent what they asked you to send. It's
kinda like watching a rock grow. I like the use of voice or keyboard
for Scout to Scout contacts.
Similar to CW GET that the ARRL used at a teacher's workshop, we
often use HamScope or some other tools so the kids can try sending
Morse and the computer interprets what they're sending. This is
especially useful when you don't have operators who are skilled at CW
themselves. A computer off to the side can be a lot of fun for kids
to try -- send their name, etc.
I would advocate that we get rid of the "calling frequencies" list
and recommend the use of Technician, Tech Plus and General Class
portions of the bands for JOTA. For other Scouting events, use
whatever prearranged frequency makes sense for the two groups.
The "calling frequencies" invariably fall on an existing QSO or Net.
In the end, it all boils down to what equipment you have, what
license class you have and what skills you have. Then, do the best
to demo Ham Radio and get the Scouts on the air. When we have some
bureaucracy dictating the frequencies to use and we get too wrapped
up in the legalities then it stops being fun and the kids suffer. A
lot of Hams I know are scared away from JOTA and Radio Scouting
because of the guidelines (for those who are old hands at JOTA, etc.,
take a look at the WOSM Radio Scouting pages, or the ARRL JOTA pages,
and you'll see lots of words, which aren't needed for a local third
party FM repeater contact). I usually work with them to make contact
on a local repeater or simplex VHF/UHF frequency -- and we all have
73, Frank KR1ZAN
Advisor Venturer Crew 73 - K5BSA
--- In email@example.com, "kb1flr" <kb1flr@h...> wrote:
> Hi John,
> I would respectfully disagree with your statements regarding the
> of CW. CW IS available to Technicians. Look at the bandplans. All
> and UHF allocations have sub bands for CW and SSB and Technicians
> have full rights and privileges in these areas. Just because CW is
> not required for a Tech license does not mean it cannot be used.
<<<<< Rest of message(s) snipped out >>>>>