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20 Meter JOTA CW and PSK31 Conflict

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  • Kd5inm@aol.com
    I don t think CW should be used during JOTA. I think we as Hams should focus on aspects of the hobby that are available to a Technician class license. It s
    Message 1 of 10 , Apr 22, 2003
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        I don't think CW should be used during JOTA. I think we as Hams should focus on aspects of the hobby that are available to a Technician class license. It's kinda ignorant to show them aspects of the hobby in which they will have no involvement in with the ENTRY LEVEL TICKET. Show them what THEY can accomplish in a reasonable time, only the ones who really have an interest in CW will persue CW after JOTA, the rest won't/can't see themselves doing it, it's not beneficial to Ham radio or the scouts to demonstrate CW.
        This is the problem with all the times Amateur radio is shown to the public, some folks do not think about what they are doing. They should demonstrate modes or bands that the scouts will get with the first license they get, (which I'm afraid to pop everyone's bubble), but it's not gonna be 99% of the time a license that gives them access to CW bands on HF.
        JOTA should be a time that we teach the scouts, and show them what is possible with some time spent studying(35 question test), and all the fun they will have BREAKING NEW GROUND. HF is old, it is well established, we basically know what it's gonna do, how it propagates, heck, sometimes we can even predict it, but when you get into microwaves and other aspects of the frequencies they get with the Technician class license, there is plenty of room to actually do something that no other Ham has done before. For instance, set a distance record, or complete a DX QSO when it was before thought impossible.  PSK31 and other digital modes that have gained use in HF because it is something new , one of the few things "New" done at HF in years. The thing is that folks forget, PSK31 and like digital modes aren't just HF modes, they work anyplace, on ANY band, not just HF, some folks forget that, other bands have PSK31 activity, above 30 mhz.
         I think JOTA is a good project/program, I just feel we should show the scouts what they can accomplish and show them how a Tech license can be used in their activities as Scouts. Show them search and rescue, show them the use of communications on Scout camps, how they can use it to find one another, or to communicate between groups, when doing this, they aren't out with an HF rig, they will most times have a HT(VHF/UHF), show them how they can setup a local camp repeater, then use it to communicate amongst groups. Scouting is great, but how many things can you think of that you might learn as a scout, that you will use the REST OF YOUR LIFE!  Ham radio is one, teach them and get them licensed, then they will take that with them up into their 80's or higher age,  and USE IT . Pitch a tent, or tie a rope into a knot or start a fire, yeah, you are gonna be doing that in the back yard of your house when you are 80-90 years old, not likely, but Ham radio is something they will never outgrow.

        73'  John KD5INM
    • kr1zan
      I like what John is saying here. Last night I was composing a similar message and clicked on the wrong button and lost my message -- probably a good thing!
      Message 2 of 10 , Apr 22, 2003
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        I like what John is saying here. Last night I was composing a
        similar message and clicked on the wrong button and lost my message --
        probably a good thing!

        Rather than "calling frequencies" for Radio Scouting, how about
        recommended segments of bands for Radio Scouting activities,
        including JOTA. Many times I'm asked for skeds with US and foreign
        Scout units on the International Scouting Frequencies. When the time
        comes, those frequencies and many kHz around them are saturated.
        Sometimes we find each other, sometimes we don't.

        Or, to keep it simple, how about using John's concept and suggest
        recommended US Scouting frequencies as Technician, Tech Plus and
        General allocations to allow as many folks as possible to get on
        compatible frequencies. The guidelines could include frequencies or
        portions of bands that should be avoided or used for specific modes
        (i.e., SSTV, PSK-31, RTTY, etc). If you want a sked, just pick a
        frequency -- all of my skeds have been set up via email or packet, as
        opposed to an implication of using the International Scouting
        Frequency.

        The World Jamboree in Thailand announced they would be on the
        Scouting Frequencies and to the best of my knowledge, they always
        showed up on something other than those frequencies. So, what's the
        purpose of those frequencies anyway? -- use reality when answering
        that question.

        Back to what John was commenting on ... maybe it's time for JOTA to
        become more localized for introductions ... use VHF/UHF and amateur
        radio demos. Scouts who have learned more about Ham Radio, perhaps
        have their licenses, might try to work other radio oriented Scout
        groups using HF or satellites. Even though it's not supposed to be a
        contest, embellish the JOTA patch with a WAC, or WAS, or WAD (Worked
        All call sign Districts) or DX-X, or DX-n (the X is for 10 countries
        confirmed, the n is for some number, perhaps an endorsement). JOTA
        for older Scouts might become a Scouting Field Day.

        Just some thoughts.

        73, Frank KR1ZAN
        Advisor, Venturer Crew 73 - K5BSA
        Richardson, TX

        ----- Original Message -----
        From: Kd5inm@...
        To: scoutradio@yahoogroups.com
        Sent: Tuesday, April 22, 2003 1:07 PM
        Subject: [Scoutradio] 20 Meter JOTA CW and PSK31 Conflict



        I don't think CW should be used during JOTA. I think we as Hams
        should focus on aspects of the hobby that are available to a
        Technician class license. It's kinda ignorant to show them aspects of
        the hobby in which they will have no involvement in with the ENTRY
        LEVEL TICKET. Show them what THEY can accomplish in a reasonable
        time, only the ones who really have an interest in CW will persue CW
        after JOTA, the rest won't/can't see themselves doing it, it's not
        beneficial to Ham radio or the scouts to demonstrate CW.

        <<<<< Rest of message snipped out >>>>>
      • kb1flr
        Hi John, I would respectfully disagree with your statements regarding the use of CW. CW IS available to Technicians. Look at the bandplans. All VHF and UHF
        Message 3 of 10 , Apr 28, 2003
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          Hi John,

          I would respectfully disagree with your statements regarding the use
          of CW. CW IS available to Technicians. Look at the bandplans. All VHF
          and UHF allocations have sub bands for CW and SSB and Technicians
          have full rights and privileges in these areas. Just because CW is
          not required for a Tech license does not mean it cannot be used.

          I have given Ham radio demonstrations to my wife's Girl Scout troop,
          of which my daughter is a member. The kids were so interested in
          using the oscillator that they would sneak back from the other
          activities to practice sending. Kids love secret code type stuff and
          CW seems like that to them.

          In addition, many children who enter Ham radio feel intimidated by
          talking to adults on repeaters or HF. CW is a great equalizer in this
          regard.

          So please reconsider your view on the use of CW.

          Best Regards,
          Rick, KB1FLR
          --- In scoutradio@yahoogroups.com, Kd5inm@a... wrote:
          >
          > I don't think CW should be used during JOTA. I think we as Hams
          should
          > focus on aspects of the hobby that are available to a Technician
          class
          > license. It's kinda ignorant to show them aspects of the hobby in
          which they
          > will have no involvement in with the ENTRY LEVEL TICKET. Show them
          what THEY
          > can accomplish in a reasonable time, only the ones who really have
          an
          > interest in CW will persue CW after JOTA, the rest won't/can't see
          themselves
          > doing it, it's not beneficial to Ham radio or the scouts to
          demonstrate CW.
          > This is the problem with all the times Amateur radio is shown to
          the
          > public, some folks do not think about what they are doing. They
          should
          > demonstrate modes or bands that the scouts will get with the first
          license
          > they get, (which I'm afraid to pop everyone's bubble), but it's not
          gonna be
          > 99% of the time a license that gives them access to CW bands on HF.
          > JOTA should be a time that we teach the scouts, and show them
          what is
          > possible with some time spent studying(35 question test), and all
          the fun
          > they will have BREAKING NEW GROUND. HF is old, it is well
          established, we
          > basically know what it's gonna do, how it propagates, heck,
          sometimes we can
          > even predict it, but when you get into microwaves and other aspects
          of the
          > frequencies they get with the Technician class license, there is
          plenty of
          > room to actually do something that no other Ham has done before.
          For
          > instance, set a distance record, or complete a DX QSO when it was
          before
          > thought impossible. PSK31 and other digital modes that have gained
          use in HF
          > because it is something new , one of the few things "New" done at
          HF in
          > years. The thing is that folks forget, PSK31 and like digital modes
          aren't
          > just HF modes, they work anyplace, on ANY band, not just HF, some
          folks
          > forget that, other bands have PSK31 activity, above 30 mhz.
          > I think JOTA is a good project/program, I just feel we should
          show the
          > scouts what they can accomplish and show them how a Tech license
          can be used
          > in their activities as Scouts. Show them search and rescue, show
          them the use
          > of communications on Scout camps, how they can use it to find one
          another, or
          > to communicate between groups, when doing this, they aren't out
          with an HF
          > rig, they will most times have a HT(VHF/UHF), show them how they
          can setup a
          > local camp repeater, then use it to communicate amongst groups.
          Scouting is
          > great, but how many things can you think of that you might learn as
          a scout,
          > that you will use the REST OF YOUR LIFE! Ham radio is one, teach
          them and
          > get them licensed, then they will take that with them up into their
          80's or
          > higher age, and USE IT . Pitch a tent, or tie a rope into a knot
          or start a
          > fire, yeah, you are gonna be doing that in the back yard of your
          house when
          > you are 80-90 years old, not likely, but Ham radio is something
          they will
          > never outgrow.
          >
          > 73' John KD5INM
        • Malcolm - G4CXT
          I would support this point of view. I took radio to one camp which had a spy theme - when I offered to operate CW as a special agent you couldn t get near
          Message 4 of 10 , Apr 28, 2003
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            I would support this point of view. I took radio to one camp which had a
            "spy theme" - when I offered to operate CW as a "special agent" you
            couldn't get near the radio for the number of kids crowding round to
            witness it! Granted, they hadn't a clue what was being said, but to say
            they were intrigued would be an understatement!

            Its this kind of curiosity which ham radio plays to in adults & children
            alike - and if CW or PSK31 is what gets them to ask "I wonder if I could do
            that" then its mission accomplished in my view ... provided you have the
            means to feed that curiosity, of course.

            The only issue we have is that the published "Scout frequencies" show a CW
            calling frequency of 14.070MHz. Where you actually operate of course is
            entirely up to you. I suspect that precious few Scout to Scout CW QSOs
            result from random calling (and listening) on 14.070. In fact, I've NEVER
            listened there for any calls, and seldom operate above 14.060 MHz in any
            case! In practice therefore I think we are talking about a problem which is
            most unlikely to occur and if it does which is easily fixed.

            Despite this there is a case in my view for publishing an alternative Scout
            calling frequency (eg 14.067 MHz) - and this can only come from the
            auspices of WOSM to avoid any accusation of conflict with the now
            recognised & established PSK31 slot at 14.0725 MHz

            73

            Malcolm - G4CXT
            ADC(Scouts) - Woodbridge





            At , you wrote:
            >Hi John,
            >
            >I would respectfully disagree with your statements regarding the use
            >of CW. CW IS available to Technicians. Look at the bandplans. All VHF
            >and UHF allocations have sub bands for CW and SSB and Technicians
            >have full rights and privileges in these areas. Just because CW is
            >not required for a Tech license does not mean it cannot be used.
            >
            >I have given Ham radio demonstrations to my wife's Girl Scout troop,
            >of which my daughter is a member. The kids were so interested in
            >using the oscillator that they would sneak back from the other
            >activities to practice sending. Kids love secret code type stuff and
            >CW seems like that to them.
            >
            >In addition, many children who enter Ham radio feel intimidated by
            >talking to adults on repeaters or HF. CW is a great equalizer in this
            >regard.
            >
            >So please reconsider your view on the use of CW.
            >
            >Best Regards,
            >Rick, KB1FLR
          • kr1zan
            Hi all, I would argue that you re both correct. CW demonstrations are a lot of fun for the kids, especially when it s a no pressure personal challenge.
            Message 5 of 10 , Apr 28, 2003
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              Hi all,

              I would argue that you're both correct. CW "demonstrations" are a
              lot of fun for the kids, especially when it's a no pressure personal
              challenge. When CW is used for an actual on the air contact, the
              Scouts have no practical idea what's going on, they're spectators,
              not actual participants. They must take you at your word that the
              beeps and bonks truly represent what they asked you to send. It's
              kinda like watching a rock grow. I like the use of voice or keyboard
              for Scout to Scout contacts.

              Similar to CW GET that the ARRL used at a teacher's workshop, we
              often use HamScope or some other tools so the kids can try sending
              Morse and the computer interprets what they're sending. This is
              especially useful when you don't have operators who are skilled at CW
              themselves. A computer off to the side can be a lot of fun for kids
              to try -- send their name, etc.

              I would advocate that we get rid of the "calling frequencies" list
              and recommend the use of Technician, Tech Plus and General Class
              portions of the bands for JOTA. For other Scouting events, use
              whatever prearranged frequency makes sense for the two groups.
              The "calling frequencies" invariably fall on an existing QSO or Net.

              In the end, it all boils down to what equipment you have, what
              license class you have and what skills you have. Then, do the best
              to demo Ham Radio and get the Scouts on the air. When we have some
              bureaucracy dictating the frequencies to use and we get too wrapped
              up in the legalities then it stops being fun and the kids suffer. A
              lot of Hams I know are scared away from JOTA and Radio Scouting
              because of the guidelines (for those who are old hands at JOTA, etc.,
              take a look at the WOSM Radio Scouting pages, or the ARRL JOTA pages,
              and you'll see lots of words, which aren't needed for a local third
              party FM repeater contact). I usually work with them to make contact
              on a local repeater or simplex VHF/UHF frequency -- and we all have
              fun.

              73, Frank KR1ZAN
              Advisor Venturer Crew 73 - K5BSA
              Garland, TX



              --- In scoutradio@yahoogroups.com, "kb1flr" <kb1flr@h...> wrote:
              > Hi John,
              >
              > I would respectfully disagree with your statements regarding the
              use
              > of CW. CW IS available to Technicians. Look at the bandplans. All
              VHF
              > and UHF allocations have sub bands for CW and SSB and Technicians
              > have full rights and privileges in these areas. Just because CW is
              > not required for a Tech license does not mean it cannot be used.
              >
              <<<<< Rest of message(s) snipped out >>>>>
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