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Re: HAM RADIO AT CAMP Pamphlet idea?

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  • kr1zan
    Bob, I think your pamphlet idea is great. I will probably reread it a few times and offer some comments ... but, in general, I like what you ve done. In
    Message 1 of 15 , Jul 12, 2002
      Bob,

      I think your "pamphlet" idea is great. I will probably reread it a
      few times and offer some comments ... but, in general, I like what
      you've done.

      In order to give some credibility to amateur radio and the proper use
      of FRS or other radio communications in camp or other scouting
      events, how about a "Radio Chit" similar to the Tot 'n Chit or the
      Fireman Chit? Both Scouts and Scouters (adult leaders) must undergo
      some type of limited, but documented, training and examination in
      order to earn their "Radio Chit." Your pamphlet, along with the FRS
      guidelines, is a start.

      Similar to the Tot 'n Chit, if a Scout (or Scouter) is found misusing
      radio privileges, a Scout leader (youth or adult) would admonish the
      offender, request the Radio Chit and tear off a corner. If four
      corners (or whatever) are torn off, then the offender must secure or
      turn in for securing the radio equipment. Only when the offender has
      gone through refresher training and receives a new Radio Chit can the
      Scout or Scouter once again use radios in camp. Or, if the
      Scout/Scouter doesn't have a Radio Chit -- simple, no more radio
      under Radio Chit earned.

      Yes, I know there's always the emergency, etc. The same thing holds
      true for the Tot 'n Chit, etc.

      The pamphlet, Radio Chit and other such info papers should be
      published at "no expense to the National BSA." They've got enough
      costs the way it is. The Chit could be in PDF form on a National BSA
      web site, as should the supporting training and exams.

      It is conceivable that a commercial sponsor, like Kenwood, Motorola,
      American Association of Radio Enthusiasts, the ARRL, etc., might
      provide funds for publication of heavy paper Radio Chits, or
      underwrite manufacturing of Radio Chit patches, etc.

      I think the Radio Chit and/or use of radios in camp/scouting should
      be mentioned in the Guide to Safe Scouting, perhaps in the Emergency
      Preparedness section. The Radio Chit then becomes another item that
      Scouts can "earn" and can be promoted through Roundtables, Scouting
      magazine, Boy's Life, etc. An attractive patch that can be worn on
      the uniform would also be another selling point.

      To readers other than Bob: If this discussion of the Radio Chit
      concept doesn't belong in this newsgroup, please let me know and I'll
      gladly communicate with Bob directly. I think he's done a terrific
      job in kindling interest in practical, common sense, limited
      volunteer syndrome, minimum investment ideas.

      73, Frank KR1ZAN
      kr1zan@...
      Garland, Texas

      --- In scoutradio@y..., Bob Bruninga <bruninga@u...> wrote:
      > Topic: Radios at camp...
      >
      > Having just returned from a great experience of demonstrating Ham
      Radio at
      > my son's boy scout camp, but the previous week having my daughter's
      HT
      > banned from a 10 day Appalachian Trail group adventure, I think it
      might
      > be a good idea for the ARRL to publish a standard Pamphlet called
      HAM
      > RADIO AT CAMP that discussses the advantages of HAM radio and
      addresses the
      > differences between HAM radio and FRS and Boom Boxes in simple
      terms.
      >
      > A draft of the Phamplet will be maintained on the WEB page:
      > http://www.ew.usna.edu/~bruninga/hratcamp.txt
      >
      <<<<< REST OF MESSAGE SNIPPED OUT >>>>>
    • Jon Pearl W4ABC
      ... From: kr1zan To: Sent: Friday, July 12, 2002 11:13 PM Subject: [Scoutradio] Re: HAM RADIO AT CAMP Pamphlet
      Message 2 of 15 , Jul 12, 2002
        ----- Original Message -----
        From: "kr1zan" <kr1zan@...>
        To: <scoutradio@yahoogroups.com>
        Sent: Friday, July 12, 2002 11:13 PM
        Subject: [Scoutradio] Re: HAM RADIO AT CAMP Pamphlet idea?


        (SNIP)

        As to your comments below Frank - I don't think anyone here would argue that
        you should take these ideas anywhere else. The fine tuning of a product
        like this takes input from many and it's great to think that we're all a
        little part of something that may well become a 'tangible' reality for every
        boy coming up through the ranks. A 'radio chit' would really add legitimacy
        to operations in those areas where radio ops are presently frowned upon
        largely due to ignorance.

        Now if we could just convince the FCC to perforate the four corners of our
        Ham tickets we might not have to up with so many fools...


        Bravo fellas... great ideas all!

        Jon Pearl W4ABC
        West Central Florida Section OOC
        Trustee WA4BSA

        > > To readers other than Bob: If this discussion of the Radio Chit
        > concept doesn't belong in this newsgroup, please let me know and I'll
        > gladly communicate with Bob directly. I think he's done a terrific
        > job in kindling interest in practical, common sense, limited
        > volunteer syndrome, minimum investment ideas.
        >
        > 73, Frank KR1ZAN
        > kr1zan@...
        > Garland, Texas
      • kr1zan
        Jon, Thanks for your comments. To expand on the chit idea: What if it s called a Communicator Chit with boxes (or something) for endorsements for various
        Message 3 of 15 , Jul 13, 2002
          Jon,

          Thanks for your comments.

          To expand on the "chit" idea: What if it's called a "Communicator
          Chit" with boxes (or something) for endorsements for various
          skills/knowledge, such as rural telephones, cell phones, Ham Radio,
          CB, FRS, Morse Code using Flashing Light/Wig Wag, semaphore, etc.

          A significant amount of "signaling" has been dropped from the BSA
          handbooks over the past couple of decades and emergency preparedness
          may be at the point of suffering.

          73, Frank KR1ZAN
          Garland, Texas

          --- In scoutradio@y..., "Jon Pearl W4ABC" <w4abc@g...> wrote:
          >
          > ----- Original Message -----
          > From: "kr1zan" <kr1zan@a...>
          > To: <scoutradio@y...>
          > Sent: Friday, July 12, 2002 11:13 PM
          > Subject: [Scoutradio] Re: HAM RADIO AT CAMP Pamphlet idea?
          >
          >
          > (SNIP)
          >
          > As to your comments below Frank - I don't think anyone here would
          argue that
          > you should take these ideas anywhere else. The fine tuning of a
          product
          > like this takes input from many and it's great to think that we're
          all a
          > little part of something that may well become a 'tangible' reality
          for every
          > boy coming up through the ranks. A 'radio chit' would really add
          legitimacy
          > to operations in those areas where radio ops are presently frowned
          upon
          > largely due to ignorance.
          >
          > Now if we could just convince the FCC to perforate the four corners
          of our
          > Ham tickets we might not have to up with so many fools...
          >
          >
          > Bravo fellas... great ideas all!
          >
          > Jon Pearl W4ABC
          > West Central Florida Section OOC
          > Trustee WA4BSA
          >
          > > > To readers other than Bob: If this discussion of the Radio Chit
          > > concept doesn't belong in this newsgroup, please let me know and
          I'll
          > > gladly communicate with Bob directly. I think he's done a
          terrific
          > > job in kindling interest in practical, common sense, limited
          > > volunteer syndrome, minimum investment ideas.
          > >
          > > 73, Frank KR1ZAN
          > > kr1zan@a...
          > > Garland, Texas
        • Bob Bruninga
          ... A local church camp. Nothing national... bob ... de WB4APR@amsat.org, Bob PCsat WEB page http://www.ew.usna.edu/~bruninga/pcsat.html ISS-APRS FAQ:
          Message 4 of 15 , Jul 15, 2002
            On Fri, 12 Jul 2002 wa6lbu@... wrote:

            > I think we'd all like to know that.

            A local church camp. Nothing national...

            bob
            >
            > In a message dated 7/12/02 10:59:54 AM Central Daylight Time, w2bsa@...
            > writes:
            >
            > <<
            > Bob, might I ask who the group was that banned the HT??
            >
            > 73,
            > >>
            >
            >
            > Check out the UK Radio-Scouting page here at Yahoo!Groups. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/radio-scouting-uk
            >
            > Now that you've got new licensees in your unit, why not have them subscibe to http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ScoutRadioYouth
            >
            > Great list of Scouting/Amateur Radio web sites:
            > http://www.k1dwu.net/ham-links/clubs.-.scouting.phtml
            >
            > Visit the "Adventure Radio Society" http://www.natworld.com/ars/
            >
            > ScoutRadio start page:
            > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/scoutradio (Email archives - member email addresses - change your subscription details, etc.)
            >
            > Post message: scoutradio@yahoogroups.com
            > Unsubscribe: scoutradio-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
            > List owner: scoutradio-owner@yahoogroups.com
            >
            > SCOUTING and AMATEUR RADIO - FUN FOR ALL AGES
            >
            > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
            >
            >

            de WB4APR@..., Bob

            PCsat WEB page http://www.ew.usna.edu/~bruninga/pcsat.html
            ISS-APRS FAQ: http://www.ew.usna.edu/~bruninga/iss-faq.html
            CUBESAT Designs http://www.ew.usna.edu/~bruninga/cubesat.html
            APRS LIVE pages http://www.ew.usna.edu/~bruninga/aprs.html
            APRS SATELLITES http://www.ew.usna.edu/~bruninga/astars.html
            MIM/Mic-E/Mic-Lite http://www.toad.net/~wclement/bruninga/mic-lite.html
          • Bob Bruninga
            ... GREAT IDEA! I love it. Is it a chit or a chip?. I think the whittling chip is a chip , but then that could be just a pun... A communicators coupon?
            Message 5 of 15 , Jul 15, 2002
              On Sat, 13 Jul 2002, kr1zan wrote:

              > events, how about a "Radio Chit" similar to the Tot 'n Chit or the
              > Fireman Chit?

              GREAT IDEA! I love it. Is it a "chit" or a chip?. I think the
              whittling chip is a "chip", but then that could be just a pun...

              A communicators coupon?

              Bob

              > Both Scouts and Scouters (adult leaders) must undergo
              > some type of limited, but documented, training and examination in
              > order to earn their "Radio Chit." Your pamphlet, along with the FRS
              > guidelines, is a start.

              > Similar to the Tot 'n Chit, if a Scout (or Scouter) is found misusing
              > radio privileges, a Scout leader (youth or adult) would admonish the
              > offender, request the Radio Chit and tear off a corner. If four
              > corners (or whatever) are torn off, then the offender must secure or
              > turn in for securing the radio equipment. Only when the offender has
              > gone through refresher training and receives a new Radio Chit can the
              > Scout or Scouter once again use radios in camp. Or, if the
              > Scout/Scouter doesn't have a Radio Chit -- simple, no more radio
              > under Radio Chit earned.
              >
              > Yes, I know there's always the emergency, etc. The same thing holds
              > true for the Tot 'n Chit, etc.
              >
              > The pamphlet, Radio Chit and other such info papers should be
              > published at "no expense to the National BSA." They've got enough
              > costs the way it is. The Chit could be in PDF form on a National BSA
              > web site, as should the supporting training and exams.
              >
              > It is conceivable that a commercial sponsor, like Kenwood, Motorola,
              > American Association of Radio Enthusiasts, the ARRL, etc., might
              > provide funds for publication of heavy paper Radio Chits, or
              > underwrite manufacturing of Radio Chit patches, etc.
              >
              > I think the Radio Chit and/or use of radios in camp/scouting should
              > be mentioned in the Guide to Safe Scouting, perhaps in the Emergency
              > Preparedness section. The Radio Chit then becomes another item that
              > Scouts can "earn" and can be promoted through Roundtables, Scouting
              > magazine, Boy's Life, etc. An attractive patch that can be worn on
              > the uniform would also be another selling point.
              >
              > To readers other than Bob: If this discussion of the Radio Chit
              > concept doesn't belong in this newsgroup, please let me know and I'll
              > gladly communicate with Bob directly. I think he's done a terrific
              > job in kindling interest in practical, common sense, limited
              > volunteer syndrome, minimum investment ideas.
              >
              > 73, Frank KR1ZAN
              > kr1zan@...
              > Garland, Texas
            • Bob Bruninga
              ... Ah, the clincher comment! Yes, I loved the CHIT idea but then thought it might appear draconian. But Jon s comment that the chit would only be reuqired
              Message 6 of 15 , Jul 15, 2002
                On Sat, 13 Jul 2002, Jon Pearl W4ABC wrote:

                > boy coming up through the ranks. A 'radio chit' would really add legitimacy
                > to operations in those areas where radio ops are presently frowned upon
                > largely due to ignorance.

                Ah, the clincher comment! Yes, I loved the CHIT idea but then thought it
                might appear draconian. But Jon's comment that the chit would only be
                reuqired at those locations "where radio ops are presently fronwned
                upon".. is the idea that makes it seamlessly slide into the mainstream.

                In other words, the CHIT is not reuqired where radios are currently
                permitted. But by having the communicators coupon as part of the concept,
                it allows a mechanism to get radio authorized where it currently is not...
                But in any case, I think our long term goal is to everntually make sure it
                IS REQUIRED.

                I have NEVER seen a kid use an FRS radio as anything other than a
                noisemaker unless he has first been instrcuted in its proper use. Our
                LONGTERM goal is to make sure the airwaves dont become a wasteland by
                having everyone be properly instructed...

                de WB4APR, Bob
              • Fred Stevens K2FRD
                It s CHIP with a P for Papa. A chit is a debt. Don t ask me Tot n Chip s origins; it s been around for a looooooooong time. ... -- 73 de Fred Stevens K2FRD
                Message 7 of 15 , Jul 15, 2002
                  It's CHIP with a "P" for Papa. A chit is a debt. Don't ask me Tot'n
                  Chip's origins; it's been around for a looooooooong time.

                  At 11:28 -0400 15/07/2002, Bob Bruninga wrote:
                  >On Sat, 13 Jul 2002, Jon Pearl W4ABC wrote:
                  >
                  >> boy coming up through the ranks. A 'radio chit' would really add legitimacy
                  >> to operations in those areas where radio ops are presently frowned upon
                  >> largely due to ignorance.
                  >
                  >Ah, the clincher comment! Yes, I loved the CHIT idea but then thought it

                  --
                  73 de Fred Stevens K2FRD
                  Chenango Co. (NY) Assistant Emergency Coordinator
                  Foothills District, Otschodela Council BSA Committees
                  Otschodela Council Amateur Radio Group http://www.ascent.net/thefred/ocarg.htm
                  K2FRD Personal Adventure page: http://www.ascent.net/thefred/K2FRD.htm
                  Fred's newest toy: http://www.ascent.net/thefred/M1911A1.htm .
                  Subscribe to the OCARG EAGLE monthly Scouting/Ham Radio newsletter
                  (no cost, no spam):
                  Send email to: mailto:thefred@... .
                  For a narrative of my VO2/K2FRD Labrador DXpediton:
                  http://www.wpe.com/~oarc/news/page5.html .
                • steve boylan
                  ... Why, shore, sonny: back when I was a young un, you didn t happen to have paper out in the woods. The Scoutmaster would just grab a chip of wood and sign
                  Message 8 of 15 , Jul 15, 2002
                    Fred Stevens, K2FRD, wrote:

                    > It's CHIP with a "P" for Papa. A chit is a debt. Don't ask me Tot'n
                    > Chip's origins; it's been around for a looooooooong time.

                    Why, shore, sonny: back when I was a young 'un, you didn't happen to have
                    paper out in the woods. The Scoutmaster would just grab a chip of wood
                    and sign off, once you showed him you knew which end of the hatchet to
                    use. 'Course, back then, you first had to find a suitable hunk of flint,
                    then make the hatchet ...

                    Ahh, them was the days!

                    - - Steve, KE1KF
                  • Jon Blatman
                    As a current Life Scout and a Tech-class ham I have seen many of the situations talked about recently on the list. I think that the Radio Chit is a GREAT idea,
                    Message 9 of 15 , Jul 15, 2002
                      As a current Life Scout and a Tech-class ham I have seen many of the
                      situations talked about recently on the list.

                      I think that the Radio Chit is a GREAT idea, and the 30-60 minute class
                      that is required for it would be able to be presented at my council camp
                      along with the totin' chit as part of the "new scout" program

                      I also agree that SOMETHING should be done to regulate and educate the
                      scouts, and camp staff in paticular, that all radios are not created
                      equal. if someone teaches the scouts that they are tools, no toys, our
                      lives will be easier.

                      I have been to several major scouting events recently, and the troops that
                      have had FRS radios have scouts running around with tem, cursing at other
                      troops, and generally being unscoutlike. We should do whatever we can to
                      keep that from becoming everyones' impression of amateur radio.

                      Jon Blatman
                      N3VZG

                      Life Scout without a troop, Chester County, PA


                      --- Bob Bruninga <bruninga@...> wrote:
                      > On Sat, 13 Jul 2002, Jon Pearl W4ABC wrote:
                      >
                      > > boy coming up through the ranks. A 'radio chit' would really add
                      > legitimacy
                      > > to operations in those areas where radio ops are presently frowned
                      > upon
                      > > largely due to ignorance.
                      >
                      > Ah, the clincher comment! Yes, I loved the CHIT idea but then thought
                      > it
                      > might appear draconian. But Jon's comment that the chit would only be
                      > reuqired at those locations "where radio ops are presently fronwned
                      > upon".. is the idea that makes it seamlessly slide into the mainstream.
                      >
                      > In other words, the CHIT is not reuqired where radios are currently
                      > permitted. But by having the communicators coupon as part of the
                      > concept,
                      > it allows a mechanism to get radio authorized where it currently is
                      > not...
                      > But in any case, I think our long term goal is to everntually make sure
                      > it
                      > IS REQUIRED.
                      >
                      > I have NEVER seen a kid use an FRS radio as anything other than a
                      > noisemaker unless he has first been instrcuted in its proper use. Our
                      > LONGTERM goal is to make sure the airwaves dont become a wasteland by
                      > having everyone be properly instructed...
                      >
                      > de WB4APR, Bob
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >


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