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Re: [Scoutradio] HAM RADIO AT CAMP Pamphlet idea?

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  • Bill Stewart
    Bob, might I ask who the group was that banned the HT?? 73, Bill Stewart, W2BSA ... Topic: Radios at camp... Having just returned from a great experience of
    Message 1 of 15 , Jul 12, 2002
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      Topic:  Radios at camp...

      Having just returned from a great experience of demonstrating Ham Radio at
      my son's boy scout camp, but the previous week having my daughter's HT
      banned from a 10 day Appalachian Trail group adventure, I think it might
      be a good idea for the ARRL to publish a standard Pamphlet called HAM
      RADIO AT CAMP that discussses the advantages of HAM radio and addresses the
      differences between HAM radio and FRS and Boom Boxes in simple terms.

      A draft of the Phamplet will be maintained on the WEB page:
      http://www.ew.usna.edu/~bruninga/hratcamp.txt

      Following is a text copy of the draft if you are interested...  I invite
      any substantive improvements or simplifications on the wording...

      de WB4APR, Bob

      **************************************************************************
      * This is a two sided pamphlet for use at ALL camps.  Side one discusses *
      * Ham Radio at camp and how it is excluded from the list of prohibited   *
      * electronics at camp and the other side is the Scouting FRS Radio Code. *
      **************************************************************************

      HAM RADIO AT CAMP                                                   Side 1
      --------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                                                          WB4APR

      HAM RADIO is not a boombox or a video game or a toy.  Ham Radio is not
      anonymous and nothing at all like a "chatroom".  Individuals on the Ham
      Radio bands are licensed and uniquely identified by the Federal
      Communications Commission (FCC).  Such individuals have studied radio
      technology and operational techniques and have passed a test demonstrating
      their knowledge of the communications art before licensing.

      HAM RADIO is a licensed two-way radio service for local, national and
      international communications and especially for emergency communications
      where normal means of communications are lost or are not available.  Ham
      Radio operators pride themselves in the ability to communicate and
      practice their emergency communications skills out in the field whenever
      they get the opportunity.

      HAM RADIO operation from camp, in the field, on hikes, or on trips is
      fundamental to exploring the limits of communications under a variety of
      conditions.  In this case, Ham Radio is NOT included in the list of
      prohibited items at camp such as "electronics, radios, video games boom
      boxes, and other entertinament electronic devices".

      HAM RADIO can serve several opportunities at camp besides just emergency
      communications and  operating from field situations.  Examples:

        * Hiker communications
        * camp-to-camp communications
        * Radio merit badge operations
        * International awareness and communications
        * Geography and topography effects on radio waves
        * Hidden transmitter hunts and direction finding
        * Radio Sport (a combinateion of DFing and orienteering)

      HAM RADIO walkie talkies should not be confused with the FAMILY RADIO
      SERVICE, which is similar to CB in that it is an unlicensed radio service
      for the consumer with no individual identification nor individual
      responsibility for proper operations.  Any restrictions (if any) on the
      use of walkie-talkies at camp must consider the distinct differences
      between these two services in the decision process.

      This is not to say that FRS does not have great potential at camp.  In
      fact, FRS when properly used can also serve many viable communications
      needs at camp and as an excellent introduction to radio as long as every-
      one who uses FRS properly identifies his transmissions and operates
      responsibly.  See the Scouting FRS Radio Code on the reverse of this
      Pamphlet.

      SHACKS-FOR-PACKS (and troops and posts) is a program to encourage the
      permanent installation of HAM Shacks at all camps.  These shacks are just
      simple pre-fab 8x8' sheds which provide a gathering place for kids to
      learn about radio from any camper or Mom or Dad that has brought his
      HAM equipment with him.  The shack provides a permanent place, an
      antenna and sometimes a 12 volt power system.  Equipment and security
      is provided by whoever is currently in camp.  Thus, the shack is intended
      to remain open at all times.  The only permanently installed electronics
      will be an FRS base station on the scouting FRS channel 12.  For more
      information see http://www.ew.usna.edu/~bruninga/shacks4packs.html.


      SCOUTING FRS RADIO CODE                                            Side 2
      -------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                                                         WB4APR

      The Family Radio Service is ideal for Scout communications.  Packs,
      troops, posts and camps should adopt FRS and encourage Scouts to learn
      the fundamentals of radio technique for practical, efficient and safe
      communications.  FRS consists of 14 channels and 38 squelch codes which
      combined, yield 526 ways for people to NOT be able to communicate with
      each other without prior agreement on their settings.  This is OK for a
      family, but contrary to many potential applications for radios in and
      around camps and Scouting.

      FRS radios are not toys and should not be used as such.  Scouting is the
      ideal place to teach the fundamentals of radio techinque to all kids.

      FRS designers assumed consumers would use FRS like a cell phone for one-
      on-one calls.  That is why they have the irritating RING tones and there
      is no mention of proper "radio procedures" in the instructions.  But for
      Scouting, FRS radios are used as RADIOS and Scouts need to understand
      proper radio procedures when multiple people share a channel.  To use FRS
      effectively AS A RADIO and for safety in the wilderness, the following
      guidelines are recommended for all Scouts.

      1) For general communications purposes with many users, do not use the
      CALL buttons, or RING tones.  They are irritating, and they cause people
      to turn their volume down, or turn the radio off.  This eliminates the
      value of a radio to communicate.  To contact someone, use their callsign.

      2) CHANNEL-1 TONE-0:  At each new outing or venue, begin communications
      on channel 1 tone 0 (tones off).  This is the universal FRS calling
      channel.  If it is quiet, you may meet fellow hikers or Scouters, and you
      are serving others by monitoring this channel for emergencies.

      3) SCOUTING CHANNEL:  If channel 1 is too busy for peace of mind, change
      to channel 12, the Scouting channel.  Remember the 12 points of the Scout
      law.  If channel 12 is too busy, then set tone 5 for the 5 words in the
      Scout slogan.  With this setting you will typically only hear other
      Scouters in busy areas.  But in general setting TONES to anything but off
      makes it difficult for you to  monitor the channel and keep aware of what
      is going on.

      4) CAMP CHANNELS:  At camps or Jamborees, choose your channel and tones
      to match your troop numbers in accordance with these guidelines so that
      someone trying to reach you can also figure out your channel and tone in
      case somone needs to contact you.  Use the first two digits of your troop
      for your channel if possible.  If these are above "14", then use only the
      first digit.   Do not use tones.  Set tones to 0 or OFF.  If you must
      silence the channel by using tones, then use the next two digits of your
      troop for your tone.  If above 38, then use only the single digit.  Using
      these rules will make it possible to always find your frequency if someone
      needs to contact you.

      5) HAM CHANNEL:  One other channel that may be interesting to Scouts
      wanting to learn more about radio is channel 7 tone 3.  That is where HAM
      radio operators on FRS may hang out if channel 1 tone 0 or the scouting
      channel is too busy...  Again, only set the tones if you have to...

      6) CALLSIGNS:  Radio communications work best when everyone can tell who
      is talking.  Eliminating anonymity eliminates much of the abuse on the
      channel.  It is best to use callsigns and to begin any new conversation
      with standard  radio technique of saying the callsign of the person you
      are calling  followed by "this is" and your callsign.  Choose good
      callsigns such as your  troop number and your initials. For our Troop 995,
      for example, "995AJB this is 995REB, over".

      7) TEACH, NOT SCOLD:  Never be critical of someone over the air.  Teach
      proper radio technique by setting a good example and by instruction to new
      Scouts.  Remember with 38 squelch tones, the chance that the other person
      will hear you is less than 3%.  If someone is acting improperly, the
      number  one rule is to ignore them.  If you respond, then you are only
      encouraging  further abuse.  If you ignore him, however, he will get bored
      and probably go elsewhere.

      8) FRS NIGHT:  Every WED nite at 9 PM everywhere is FRS night.  This is a
      time to meet new radio friends who are also looking to see who else is
      radio active in their area and wants to learn more about radio.  Just go to
      channel 1 tone 0 and call "CQ FRS NIGHT, this is xxxxxxx, OVER".

      9) MOVE UP TO HAM RADIO:  FRS radio is limited in range and power.  If you
      enjoy radio and want to increase your range as well as make new radio
      friends  and to even make phone calls from your radio, get in touch with
      HAM radio  operators and learn all about the exciing world of HAM radio.
      See the web page at http://www.arrl.org.

      10) PLAY IT SAFE:  FRS radio is a great way to meet new friends and learn
      about radio.  But it is unlicensed and you have no guarantee who may be on
      the other end.  So be smart and use the same safety precautions as with
      any strangers.  Do not reveal any private information and do not meet any
      stangers in any unsafe location.  Only communicate with others who
      properly identify themselves.

      To encourage radio communications at camp, many camps are installing "HAM
      Shacks" permanently in camp, and these shacks include FRS equipment for
      introducing youth to proper radio techniques.  See the SHACKS-FOR-PACKS
      section on the reverse side of this pamphlet.

      **************************************************************************
      * These guidelines for FRS and Scouting are only a draft.  They are not  *
      * yet endorsed by any scouting organization, but we hope to encourage    *
      * their adoption.  To keep up-to-date on any changes to this plan, visit *
      * our web page at:  www.ew.usna.edu/~bruninga/frsplan.txt                *
      *                                                                        *
      * Teaching familiarity with this RADIO CODE should be one of requirements*
      * in the scouting program.  I would suggest Tenderfoot.  FRS radio can be*
      * a powerful tool for Scouting, but unless we teach radio technique, FRS *
      * will become just another noisey toy, banned from all Scout activities  *
      * at great loss to the Scouting program.                                 *
      *                                                                        *
      * Enjoy radio, learn more, and move up to HAM radio!                     *
      * Bob Bruninga, WB4APR, Eagle Scout.                                     *
      **************************************************************************





      Check out the UK Radio-Scouting page here at Yahoo!Groups. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/radio-scouting-uk

      Now that you've got new licensees in your unit, why not have them subscibe to http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ScoutRadioYouth

      Great list of Scouting/Amateur Radio web sites:
      http://www.k1dwu.net/ham-links/clubs.-.scouting.phtml

      Visit the "Adventure Radio Society" http://www.natworld.com/ars/

      ScoutRadio start page:
      http://groups.yahoo.com/group/scoutradio (Email archives - member email addresses - change your subscription details, etc.)

      Post message: scoutradio@yahoogroups.com
      Unsubscribe:  scoutradio-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
      List owner:   scoutradio-owner@yahoogroups.com

      SCOUTING and AMATEUR RADIO - FUN FOR ALL AGES


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    • Bob Bruninga
      ... As a Dad, on arrival at camp for my one night tour of duty, I was told that my job was to sit in the campsite (rules require 2 adults present). THus,
      Message 2 of 15 , Jul 12, 2002
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        Having been to camp this week, I have a new perspective on:

        > SHACKS-FOR-PACKS (and troops and posts) is a program to encourage the
        > permanent installation of HAM Shacks at all camps. These... simple
        > pre-fab 8x8' sheds... provide a gathering place for kids to learn about
        > radio from any camper, Mom or Dad that has brought his HAM equipment...

        As a Dad, on arrival at camp for my one night tour of duty, I was told
        that my job was to sit in the campsite (rules require 2 adults present).
        THus, setting up a demo station in a central location (the mess hall) was
        out for the evening I was there...

        As I was schelping my equipment down the trail to our campsite, I saw a
        suspiciious white rope going into the trees at a nearby campsite and
        followed it to a dipole, coax and another HAM! But no one outside of his
        troop knew it was there.

        So here is the new cheap alternative to SHACKS-4-PACKS to give visibility
        to HAM radio in camp with greater flexibility. Simply prepare a permanent
        big sign in a central location that says something like:

        +--------------------------+
        | HAM Station this week |
        | |
        | *************** |
        | * ON THE AIR * |
        | *************** |
        | is operating at campsite |
        +-------*---------*--------+
        * *
        +---*---------*---+
        | Davey Crocket |
        +-----------------+

        Actually it would also have a place for the operator to put his QSL card
        to identify who he is and it would also probably have a little note that
        says the HAM station is montoring 146.52 and FRS channel 7 tone 3 and an
        invitation to "come on down"...

        Thus, everyone at camp will konw if HAM radio is currently being
        demonstrated and where. ALso, since an FRS radio is less than $20 these
        days, I would make the ON-AIR sign be RED and BACKLIT and hooked to the
        FRS squelch and a 15 minute one-shot timer so that I could trigger it to
        be ON remotely whenever I am on the air. Thus saving a hike to the
        mess-hall at the start and stop of each operating session...

        The advantage here is that each HAM can do his thing WITH HIS TROOP in
        place at his campsite, yet still give the overall camp the visibility of
        operations. A problem with the shacks-4-packs concept is that the
        operator there must be independent of any other collateral duties since he
        is stuck at a central location.

        I would make the sign about 1' by 2' and use a router to make it permanent
        on thick wood. The individual campsite plaques would hang below it...
        The sign should probably have a place on the back to keep all the unused
        campsite boards when not in use... Now, where to find the back-lit ON-AIR
        piece of red glass..?

        See the design http://www.ew.usna.edu/~bruninga/shacksign.jpg

        So anyway, I just thought I would post this ON-THE-AIR sign idea as a
        cheap and simple alternative to the SHACKS-4-PACKS idea....

        See http://www.ew.usna.edu/~bruninga/shacks4packs.html

        de WB4APR, Bob
      • wa6lbu@aol.com
        I think we d all like to know that. In a message dated 7/12/02 10:59:54 AM Central Daylight Time, w2bsa@arrl.net writes:
        Message 3 of 15 , Jul 12, 2002
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          I think we'd all like to know that.

          In a message dated 7/12/02 10:59:54 AM Central Daylight Time, w2bsa@...
          writes:

          <<
          Bob, might I ask who the group was that banned the HT??

          73,
          >>
        • kr1zan
          Bob, I think your pamphlet idea is great. I will probably reread it a few times and offer some comments ... but, in general, I like what you ve done. In
          Message 4 of 15 , Jul 12, 2002
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            Bob,

            I think your "pamphlet" idea is great. I will probably reread it a
            few times and offer some comments ... but, in general, I like what
            you've done.

            In order to give some credibility to amateur radio and the proper use
            of FRS or other radio communications in camp or other scouting
            events, how about a "Radio Chit" similar to the Tot 'n Chit or the
            Fireman Chit? Both Scouts and Scouters (adult leaders) must undergo
            some type of limited, but documented, training and examination in
            order to earn their "Radio Chit." Your pamphlet, along with the FRS
            guidelines, is a start.

            Similar to the Tot 'n Chit, if a Scout (or Scouter) is found misusing
            radio privileges, a Scout leader (youth or adult) would admonish the
            offender, request the Radio Chit and tear off a corner. If four
            corners (or whatever) are torn off, then the offender must secure or
            turn in for securing the radio equipment. Only when the offender has
            gone through refresher training and receives a new Radio Chit can the
            Scout or Scouter once again use radios in camp. Or, if the
            Scout/Scouter doesn't have a Radio Chit -- simple, no more radio
            under Radio Chit earned.

            Yes, I know there's always the emergency, etc. The same thing holds
            true for the Tot 'n Chit, etc.

            The pamphlet, Radio Chit and other such info papers should be
            published at "no expense to the National BSA." They've got enough
            costs the way it is. The Chit could be in PDF form on a National BSA
            web site, as should the supporting training and exams.

            It is conceivable that a commercial sponsor, like Kenwood, Motorola,
            American Association of Radio Enthusiasts, the ARRL, etc., might
            provide funds for publication of heavy paper Radio Chits, or
            underwrite manufacturing of Radio Chit patches, etc.

            I think the Radio Chit and/or use of radios in camp/scouting should
            be mentioned in the Guide to Safe Scouting, perhaps in the Emergency
            Preparedness section. The Radio Chit then becomes another item that
            Scouts can "earn" and can be promoted through Roundtables, Scouting
            magazine, Boy's Life, etc. An attractive patch that can be worn on
            the uniform would also be another selling point.

            To readers other than Bob: If this discussion of the Radio Chit
            concept doesn't belong in this newsgroup, please let me know and I'll
            gladly communicate with Bob directly. I think he's done a terrific
            job in kindling interest in practical, common sense, limited
            volunteer syndrome, minimum investment ideas.

            73, Frank KR1ZAN
            kr1zan@...
            Garland, Texas

            --- In scoutradio@y..., Bob Bruninga <bruninga@u...> wrote:
            > Topic: Radios at camp...
            >
            > Having just returned from a great experience of demonstrating Ham
            Radio at
            > my son's boy scout camp, but the previous week having my daughter's
            HT
            > banned from a 10 day Appalachian Trail group adventure, I think it
            might
            > be a good idea for the ARRL to publish a standard Pamphlet called
            HAM
            > RADIO AT CAMP that discussses the advantages of HAM radio and
            addresses the
            > differences between HAM radio and FRS and Boom Boxes in simple
            terms.
            >
            > A draft of the Phamplet will be maintained on the WEB page:
            > http://www.ew.usna.edu/~bruninga/hratcamp.txt
            >
            <<<<< REST OF MESSAGE SNIPPED OUT >>>>>
          • Jon Pearl W4ABC
            ... From: kr1zan To: Sent: Friday, July 12, 2002 11:13 PM Subject: [Scoutradio] Re: HAM RADIO AT CAMP Pamphlet
            Message 5 of 15 , Jul 12, 2002
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              ----- Original Message -----
              From: "kr1zan" <kr1zan@...>
              To: <scoutradio@yahoogroups.com>
              Sent: Friday, July 12, 2002 11:13 PM
              Subject: [Scoutradio] Re: HAM RADIO AT CAMP Pamphlet idea?


              (SNIP)

              As to your comments below Frank - I don't think anyone here would argue that
              you should take these ideas anywhere else. The fine tuning of a product
              like this takes input from many and it's great to think that we're all a
              little part of something that may well become a 'tangible' reality for every
              boy coming up through the ranks. A 'radio chit' would really add legitimacy
              to operations in those areas where radio ops are presently frowned upon
              largely due to ignorance.

              Now if we could just convince the FCC to perforate the four corners of our
              Ham tickets we might not have to up with so many fools...


              Bravo fellas... great ideas all!

              Jon Pearl W4ABC
              West Central Florida Section OOC
              Trustee WA4BSA

              > > To readers other than Bob: If this discussion of the Radio Chit
              > concept doesn't belong in this newsgroup, please let me know and I'll
              > gladly communicate with Bob directly. I think he's done a terrific
              > job in kindling interest in practical, common sense, limited
              > volunteer syndrome, minimum investment ideas.
              >
              > 73, Frank KR1ZAN
              > kr1zan@...
              > Garland, Texas
            • kr1zan
              Jon, Thanks for your comments. To expand on the chit idea: What if it s called a Communicator Chit with boxes (or something) for endorsements for various
              Message 6 of 15 , Jul 13, 2002
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                Jon,

                Thanks for your comments.

                To expand on the "chit" idea: What if it's called a "Communicator
                Chit" with boxes (or something) for endorsements for various
                skills/knowledge, such as rural telephones, cell phones, Ham Radio,
                CB, FRS, Morse Code using Flashing Light/Wig Wag, semaphore, etc.

                A significant amount of "signaling" has been dropped from the BSA
                handbooks over the past couple of decades and emergency preparedness
                may be at the point of suffering.

                73, Frank KR1ZAN
                Garland, Texas

                --- In scoutradio@y..., "Jon Pearl W4ABC" <w4abc@g...> wrote:
                >
                > ----- Original Message -----
                > From: "kr1zan" <kr1zan@a...>
                > To: <scoutradio@y...>
                > Sent: Friday, July 12, 2002 11:13 PM
                > Subject: [Scoutradio] Re: HAM RADIO AT CAMP Pamphlet idea?
                >
                >
                > (SNIP)
                >
                > As to your comments below Frank - I don't think anyone here would
                argue that
                > you should take these ideas anywhere else. The fine tuning of a
                product
                > like this takes input from many and it's great to think that we're
                all a
                > little part of something that may well become a 'tangible' reality
                for every
                > boy coming up through the ranks. A 'radio chit' would really add
                legitimacy
                > to operations in those areas where radio ops are presently frowned
                upon
                > largely due to ignorance.
                >
                > Now if we could just convince the FCC to perforate the four corners
                of our
                > Ham tickets we might not have to up with so many fools...
                >
                >
                > Bravo fellas... great ideas all!
                >
                > Jon Pearl W4ABC
                > West Central Florida Section OOC
                > Trustee WA4BSA
                >
                > > > To readers other than Bob: If this discussion of the Radio Chit
                > > concept doesn't belong in this newsgroup, please let me know and
                I'll
                > > gladly communicate with Bob directly. I think he's done a
                terrific
                > > job in kindling interest in practical, common sense, limited
                > > volunteer syndrome, minimum investment ideas.
                > >
                > > 73, Frank KR1ZAN
                > > kr1zan@a...
                > > Garland, Texas
              • Bob Bruninga
                ... A local church camp. Nothing national... bob ... de WB4APR@amsat.org, Bob PCsat WEB page http://www.ew.usna.edu/~bruninga/pcsat.html ISS-APRS FAQ:
                Message 7 of 15 , Jul 15, 2002
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                  On Fri, 12 Jul 2002 wa6lbu@... wrote:

                  > I think we'd all like to know that.

                  A local church camp. Nothing national...

                  bob
                  >
                  > In a message dated 7/12/02 10:59:54 AM Central Daylight Time, w2bsa@...
                  > writes:
                  >
                  > <<
                  > Bob, might I ask who the group was that banned the HT??
                  >
                  > 73,
                  > >>
                  >
                  >
                  > Check out the UK Radio-Scouting page here at Yahoo!Groups. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/radio-scouting-uk
                  >
                  > Now that you've got new licensees in your unit, why not have them subscibe to http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ScoutRadioYouth
                  >
                  > Great list of Scouting/Amateur Radio web sites:
                  > http://www.k1dwu.net/ham-links/clubs.-.scouting.phtml
                  >
                  > Visit the "Adventure Radio Society" http://www.natworld.com/ars/
                  >
                  > ScoutRadio start page:
                  > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/scoutradio (Email archives - member email addresses - change your subscription details, etc.)
                  >
                  > Post message: scoutradio@yahoogroups.com
                  > Unsubscribe: scoutradio-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                  > List owner: scoutradio-owner@yahoogroups.com
                  >
                  > SCOUTING and AMATEUR RADIO - FUN FOR ALL AGES
                  >
                  > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                  >
                  >

                  de WB4APR@..., Bob

                  PCsat WEB page http://www.ew.usna.edu/~bruninga/pcsat.html
                  ISS-APRS FAQ: http://www.ew.usna.edu/~bruninga/iss-faq.html
                  CUBESAT Designs http://www.ew.usna.edu/~bruninga/cubesat.html
                  APRS LIVE pages http://www.ew.usna.edu/~bruninga/aprs.html
                  APRS SATELLITES http://www.ew.usna.edu/~bruninga/astars.html
                  MIM/Mic-E/Mic-Lite http://www.toad.net/~wclement/bruninga/mic-lite.html
                • Bob Bruninga
                  ... GREAT IDEA! I love it. Is it a chit or a chip?. I think the whittling chip is a chip , but then that could be just a pun... A communicators coupon?
                  Message 8 of 15 , Jul 15, 2002
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                    On Sat, 13 Jul 2002, kr1zan wrote:

                    > events, how about a "Radio Chit" similar to the Tot 'n Chit or the
                    > Fireman Chit?

                    GREAT IDEA! I love it. Is it a "chit" or a chip?. I think the
                    whittling chip is a "chip", but then that could be just a pun...

                    A communicators coupon?

                    Bob

                    > Both Scouts and Scouters (adult leaders) must undergo
                    > some type of limited, but documented, training and examination in
                    > order to earn their "Radio Chit." Your pamphlet, along with the FRS
                    > guidelines, is a start.

                    > Similar to the Tot 'n Chit, if a Scout (or Scouter) is found misusing
                    > radio privileges, a Scout leader (youth or adult) would admonish the
                    > offender, request the Radio Chit and tear off a corner. If four
                    > corners (or whatever) are torn off, then the offender must secure or
                    > turn in for securing the radio equipment. Only when the offender has
                    > gone through refresher training and receives a new Radio Chit can the
                    > Scout or Scouter once again use radios in camp. Or, if the
                    > Scout/Scouter doesn't have a Radio Chit -- simple, no more radio
                    > under Radio Chit earned.
                    >
                    > Yes, I know there's always the emergency, etc. The same thing holds
                    > true for the Tot 'n Chit, etc.
                    >
                    > The pamphlet, Radio Chit and other such info papers should be
                    > published at "no expense to the National BSA." They've got enough
                    > costs the way it is. The Chit could be in PDF form on a National BSA
                    > web site, as should the supporting training and exams.
                    >
                    > It is conceivable that a commercial sponsor, like Kenwood, Motorola,
                    > American Association of Radio Enthusiasts, the ARRL, etc., might
                    > provide funds for publication of heavy paper Radio Chits, or
                    > underwrite manufacturing of Radio Chit patches, etc.
                    >
                    > I think the Radio Chit and/or use of radios in camp/scouting should
                    > be mentioned in the Guide to Safe Scouting, perhaps in the Emergency
                    > Preparedness section. The Radio Chit then becomes another item that
                    > Scouts can "earn" and can be promoted through Roundtables, Scouting
                    > magazine, Boy's Life, etc. An attractive patch that can be worn on
                    > the uniform would also be another selling point.
                    >
                    > To readers other than Bob: If this discussion of the Radio Chit
                    > concept doesn't belong in this newsgroup, please let me know and I'll
                    > gladly communicate with Bob directly. I think he's done a terrific
                    > job in kindling interest in practical, common sense, limited
                    > volunteer syndrome, minimum investment ideas.
                    >
                    > 73, Frank KR1ZAN
                    > kr1zan@...
                    > Garland, Texas
                  • Bob Bruninga
                    ... Ah, the clincher comment! Yes, I loved the CHIT idea but then thought it might appear draconian. But Jon s comment that the chit would only be reuqired
                    Message 9 of 15 , Jul 15, 2002
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                      On Sat, 13 Jul 2002, Jon Pearl W4ABC wrote:

                      > boy coming up through the ranks. A 'radio chit' would really add legitimacy
                      > to operations in those areas where radio ops are presently frowned upon
                      > largely due to ignorance.

                      Ah, the clincher comment! Yes, I loved the CHIT idea but then thought it
                      might appear draconian. But Jon's comment that the chit would only be
                      reuqired at those locations "where radio ops are presently fronwned
                      upon".. is the idea that makes it seamlessly slide into the mainstream.

                      In other words, the CHIT is not reuqired where radios are currently
                      permitted. But by having the communicators coupon as part of the concept,
                      it allows a mechanism to get radio authorized where it currently is not...
                      But in any case, I think our long term goal is to everntually make sure it
                      IS REQUIRED.

                      I have NEVER seen a kid use an FRS radio as anything other than a
                      noisemaker unless he has first been instrcuted in its proper use. Our
                      LONGTERM goal is to make sure the airwaves dont become a wasteland by
                      having everyone be properly instructed...

                      de WB4APR, Bob
                    • Fred Stevens K2FRD
                      It s CHIP with a P for Papa. A chit is a debt. Don t ask me Tot n Chip s origins; it s been around for a looooooooong time. ... -- 73 de Fred Stevens K2FRD
                      Message 10 of 15 , Jul 15, 2002
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                        It's CHIP with a "P" for Papa. A chit is a debt. Don't ask me Tot'n
                        Chip's origins; it's been around for a looooooooong time.

                        At 11:28 -0400 15/07/2002, Bob Bruninga wrote:
                        >On Sat, 13 Jul 2002, Jon Pearl W4ABC wrote:
                        >
                        >> boy coming up through the ranks. A 'radio chit' would really add legitimacy
                        >> to operations in those areas where radio ops are presently frowned upon
                        >> largely due to ignorance.
                        >
                        >Ah, the clincher comment! Yes, I loved the CHIT idea but then thought it

                        --
                        73 de Fred Stevens K2FRD
                        Chenango Co. (NY) Assistant Emergency Coordinator
                        Foothills District, Otschodela Council BSA Committees
                        Otschodela Council Amateur Radio Group http://www.ascent.net/thefred/ocarg.htm
                        K2FRD Personal Adventure page: http://www.ascent.net/thefred/K2FRD.htm
                        Fred's newest toy: http://www.ascent.net/thefred/M1911A1.htm .
                        Subscribe to the OCARG EAGLE monthly Scouting/Ham Radio newsletter
                        (no cost, no spam):
                        Send email to: mailto:thefred@... .
                        For a narrative of my VO2/K2FRD Labrador DXpediton:
                        http://www.wpe.com/~oarc/news/page5.html .
                      • steve boylan
                        ... Why, shore, sonny: back when I was a young un, you didn t happen to have paper out in the woods. The Scoutmaster would just grab a chip of wood and sign
                        Message 11 of 15 , Jul 15, 2002
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                          Fred Stevens, K2FRD, wrote:

                          > It's CHIP with a "P" for Papa. A chit is a debt. Don't ask me Tot'n
                          > Chip's origins; it's been around for a looooooooong time.

                          Why, shore, sonny: back when I was a young 'un, you didn't happen to have
                          paper out in the woods. The Scoutmaster would just grab a chip of wood
                          and sign off, once you showed him you knew which end of the hatchet to
                          use. 'Course, back then, you first had to find a suitable hunk of flint,
                          then make the hatchet ...

                          Ahh, them was the days!

                          - - Steve, KE1KF
                        • Jon Blatman
                          As a current Life Scout and a Tech-class ham I have seen many of the situations talked about recently on the list. I think that the Radio Chit is a GREAT idea,
                          Message 12 of 15 , Jul 15, 2002
                          • 0 Attachment
                            As a current Life Scout and a Tech-class ham I have seen many of the
                            situations talked about recently on the list.

                            I think that the Radio Chit is a GREAT idea, and the 30-60 minute class
                            that is required for it would be able to be presented at my council camp
                            along with the totin' chit as part of the "new scout" program

                            I also agree that SOMETHING should be done to regulate and educate the
                            scouts, and camp staff in paticular, that all radios are not created
                            equal. if someone teaches the scouts that they are tools, no toys, our
                            lives will be easier.

                            I have been to several major scouting events recently, and the troops that
                            have had FRS radios have scouts running around with tem, cursing at other
                            troops, and generally being unscoutlike. We should do whatever we can to
                            keep that from becoming everyones' impression of amateur radio.

                            Jon Blatman
                            N3VZG

                            Life Scout without a troop, Chester County, PA


                            --- Bob Bruninga <bruninga@...> wrote:
                            > On Sat, 13 Jul 2002, Jon Pearl W4ABC wrote:
                            >
                            > > boy coming up through the ranks. A 'radio chit' would really add
                            > legitimacy
                            > > to operations in those areas where radio ops are presently frowned
                            > upon
                            > > largely due to ignorance.
                            >
                            > Ah, the clincher comment! Yes, I loved the CHIT idea but then thought
                            > it
                            > might appear draconian. But Jon's comment that the chit would only be
                            > reuqired at those locations "where radio ops are presently fronwned
                            > upon".. is the idea that makes it seamlessly slide into the mainstream.
                            >
                            > In other words, the CHIT is not reuqired where radios are currently
                            > permitted. But by having the communicators coupon as part of the
                            > concept,
                            > it allows a mechanism to get radio authorized where it currently is
                            > not...
                            > But in any case, I think our long term goal is to everntually make sure
                            > it
                            > IS REQUIRED.
                            >
                            > I have NEVER seen a kid use an FRS radio as anything other than a
                            > noisemaker unless he has first been instrcuted in its proper use. Our
                            > LONGTERM goal is to make sure the airwaves dont become a wasteland by
                            > having everyone be properly instructed...
                            >
                            > de WB4APR, Bob
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >


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