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Re: [scoutradio] Car Caravans...

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  • Frosty6981@aol.com
    Im just a scout so I m in the dark about the danger of caravaning. Could some one explan to me what makes it so dangerious. I can see what makes it safe but
    Message 1 of 14 , May 12, 2002
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      Im just a scout so I'm in the dark about the danger of caravaning.  Could some one explan to me what makes it so dangerious.  I can see what makes it safe but not unsafe.

      In a message dated 5/12/02 6:40:32 PM Central Daylight Time, gary@... writes:


      Subj:Re: [scoutradio] Car Caravans...
      Date:5/12/02 6:40:32 PM Central Daylight Time
      From:gary@...
      Reply-to:scoutradio@yahoogroups.com
      To:scoutradio@yahoogroups.com
      Sent from the Internet



      When you sign a Tour Permit, you agree to respect a list of safety guidelines printed
      on that form.  One of those is that you acknowledge that "caravanning" is an unsafe
      practice and that you will not attempt to maintain a caravan of vehicles on public
      roads.  I personally agree fully with that perspective; and can give you examples of
      actions taken on the road taken to maintain a caravan, that have put our troop in some
      jeapordy.  But I have been overruled by our troop leadership, who believes that we
      can best express respect for these rules by violating them.  After all, it must be safe,
      because we have always done it, and it makes us feel special on the road.

      Why do we sign a Tour Permit anyway?  Because this is the instrument by which
      the BSA recognizes your event as a BSA activity, covered by the BSA liability
      insurance, which I expect is a good chunk of the hefty "chartering" fees.

      Gary Thorburn  KD1TE
      gary@...


      -----Original Message-----
      From: Carter J Wood <carterjwood@...>
      To: scoutradio@yahoogroups.com <scoutradio@yahoogroups.com>
      Date: Sunday, May 12, 2002 10:38 AM
      Subject: [scoutradio] Car Caravans...


      have been gone for several years.  Use "The Guide to
      Safe Scouting" as a reference.

      __________________________________________________
      Do You Yahoo!?
      LAUNCH - Your Yahoo! Music Experience
      http://launch.yahoo.com


      Check out the UK Radio-Scouting page here at Yahoo!Groups. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/radio-scouting-uk

      Now that you've got new licensees in your unit, why not have them subscibe to http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ScoutRadioYouth

      Great list of Scouting/Amateur Radio web sites:
      http://www.k1dwu.net/ham-links/clubs.-.scouting.phtml

      Visit the "Adventure Radio Society" http://www.natworld.com/ars/

      ScoutRadio start page:
      http://groups.yahoo.com/group/scoutradio (Email archives - member email addresses - change your subscription details, etc.)

      Post message: scoutradio@yahoogroups.com
      Unsubscribe:  scoutradio-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
      List owner:   scoutradio-owner@yahoogroups.com

      SCOUTING and AMATEUR RADIO - FUN FOR ALL AGES

      Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.




      73, Reid KCØIDI
    • Gary W Thorburn
      As someone else correctly pointed out, the Guide to Safe Scouting uses the term Convoy rather than Caravan . Nevertheless, the practice is discouraged. The
      Message 2 of 14 , May 12, 2002
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        As someone else correctly pointed out, the Guide to Safe Scouting uses the term
        "Convoy" rather than "Caravan".  Nevertheless, the practice is discouraged.
         
        The basic problem is this:  when you attempt to maintain a caravan, you are
        asking drivers to add one more issue to the list of things they need to concern
        themselves with when transporting a carload of scouts.  Typically our trips leave
        in busy Friday evening traffic, and head out onto congested interstates.  A sequence
        of cars parades out of the lot, often with CB radios in the first and last car.   The
        radio-less drivers in the middle are usually occasional parent volunteers, and
        this may be their first trip driving with us.   We do not maintain a bumper-to
        bumper convoy, but the middle drivers are expected to stay in sequence.
        None of the other zillion Friday drivers have any idea that we are travelling together,
        nor can they be expected to defer to our little parade.  Yet I have heard the lead
        and sweeper cars negotiate on the radio schemes to "open up" spots in
        lanes for our other drivers, or juggle positions to maintain the sequence.
        This is just plain hazardous.  Our drivers are all capable of negotiating the
        road on their own when out on a family outing, why make it more challenging
        when driving scouts?  The inconvenience incurred when one driver makes
        a wrong turn is small indeed compared to any scheme designed to keep
        drivers in line.
         
        I have also seen the lead car pull over and stop after he thought that the whole
        caravan didn't make it through a light, in a congested area.  The caravanning
        drivers behind him must choose between the safe alternative, which is
        to continue on until a safe pullout can be found, thereby breaking the sequence,
        or pulling over where ever they are, possibly creating a hazard, and expecting
        all the other unsuspecting Friday drivers to pass our parade.  Then, when
        the light changes and our guys come on through, we all hop out into the traffic
        at once, which presents another unusual challenge for all.
         
        The problem with caravanning in a nutshell:  It asks our drivers to make
        a choice they should not have to make:  either to employ the good
        driving skills that they would use driving solo, or to exhibit their identity with
        and support for the troop by playing a little game, possibly compromising
        driving safety.
         
        To get back to the radio point of all this, having a couple cars with radios
        can certainly be a safety and convenience boon.  Without enforcing any
        kind of caravan, one driver can agree at the outset to drag behind a bit,
        watching for any car that may have trouble, or was observed to have made
        a wrong turn, and notify another driver that he will tarry behind to see what
        the problem is.  This achieves any supposed benefit of a caravan without
        involving its hazards.
         
        Gary W Thorburn  KD1TE
         
         
        -----Original Message-----
        From: Frosty6981@... <Frosty6981@...>
        To: scoutradio@yahoogroups.com <scoutradio@yahoogroups.com>
        Date: Sunday, May 12, 2002 7:49 PM
        Subject: Re: [scoutradio] Car Caravans...

        Im just a scout so I'm in the dark about the danger of caravaning.  Could some one explan to me what makes it so dangerious.  I can see what makes it safe but not unsafe.

      • kr1zan
        Hi everyone, I just looked at the current Local Tour Permit on the National BSA web site. It no longer mentions convoy. The wording is: 18. If more than
        Message 3 of 14 , May 12, 2002
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          Hi everyone,

          I just looked at the current Local Tour Permit on the National BSA
          web site. It no longer mentions "convoy." The wording is:

          "18. If more than one vehicle is used to transport our group, we will
          establish rendezvous points at the start of each day and not attempt
          to have drivers closely follow the group veicle in front of them."

          The National Tour Permit doesn't even mention "convoy" or "caravan"
          or anything about following too closely.

          The "Guide to Safe Scouting" continues to state:
          "10. Do not travel in convoy."

          I certainly agree with Gary's comments. I think a lot of the
          convoying or caravaning results from poor planning.
          The 'volunteers', as Gary called them, don't have a map, don't know
          where they're going, don't feel comfortable with the route, etc. By
          following in a caravan, they can watch the car in front and hope that
          someone else is watching out for them. In many cases, the drivers do
          have maps, but habit suggests we travel as a group (a caravan).

          Frank KR1ZAN
          Advisor, Venturer Crew 73 - K5BSA
          Plano, Texas


          --- In scoutradio@y..., "Gary W Thorburn" <gary@t...> wrote:
          > As someone else correctly pointed out, the Guide to Safe Scouting
          uses the term
          > "Convoy" rather than "Caravan". Nevertheless, the practice is
          discouraged.
          >
          > The basic problem is this: when you attempt to maintain a caravan,
          you are
          > asking drivers to add one more issue to the list of things they
          need to concern
          > themselves with when transporting a carload of scouts. Typically
          our trips leave
          > in busy Friday evening traffic, and head out onto congested
          interstates. A sequence
          > of cars parades out of the lot, often with CB radios in the first
          and last car. The
          > radio-less drivers in the middle are usually occasional parent
          volunteers, and
          > this may be their first trip driving with us. We do not maintain
          a bumper-to
          > bumper convoy, but the middle drivers are expected to stay in
          sequence.
          > None of the other zillion Friday drivers have any idea that we are
          travelling together,
          > nor can they be expected to defer to our little parade. Yet I have
          heard the lead
          > and sweeper cars negotiate on the radio schemes to "open up" spots
          in
          > lanes for our other drivers, or juggle positions to maintain the
          sequence.
          > This is just plain hazardous. Our drivers are all capable of
          negotiating the
          > road on their own when out on a family outing, why make it more
          challenging
          > when driving scouts? The inconvenience incurred when one driver
          makes
          > a wrong turn is small indeed compared to any scheme designed to keep
          > drivers in line.
          >
          > I have also seen the lead car pull over and stop after he thought
          that the whole
          > caravan didn't make it through a light, in a congested area. The
          caravanning
          > drivers behind him must choose between the safe alternative, which
          is
          > to continue on until a safe pullout can be found, thereby breaking
          the sequence,
          > or pulling over where ever they are, possibly creating a hazard,
          and expecting
          > all the other unsuspecting Friday drivers to pass our parade.
          Then, when
          > the light changes and our guys come on through, we all hop out into
          the traffic
          > at once, which presents another unusual challenge for all.
          >
          > The problem with caravanning in a nutshell: It asks our drivers to
          make
          > a choice they should not have to make: either to employ the good
          > driving skills that they would use driving solo, or to exhibit
          their identity with
          > and support for the troop by playing a little game, possibly
          compromising
          > driving safety.
          >
          > To get back to the radio point of all this, having a couple cars
          with radios
          > can certainly be a safety and convenience boon. Without enforcing
          any
          > kind of caravan, one driver can agree at the outset to drag behind
          a bit,
          > watching for any car that may have trouble, or was observed to have
          made
          > a wrong turn, and notify another driver that he will tarry behind
          to see what
          > the problem is. This achieves any supposed benefit of a caravan
          without
          > involving its hazards.
          >
          > Gary W Thorburn KD1TE
          > gary@t...
          >
          >
          > -----Original Message-----
          > From: Frosty6981@a... <Frosty6981@a...>
          > To: scoutradio@y... <scoutradio@y...>
          > Date: Sunday, May 12, 2002 7:49 PM
          > Subject: Re: [scoutradio] Car Caravans...
          >
          >
          > Im just a scout so I'm in the dark about the danger of
          caravaning. Could some one explan to me what makes it so
          dangerious. I can see what makes it safe but not unsafe.
        • Richard A. Blank
          From experience, I can tell you that when one driver has to stop suddenly, you hope that everyone behind that driver can stop in time. I have had two
          Message 4 of 14 , May 12, 2002
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            From experience, I can tell you that when one driver has to stop suddenly, you hope that everyone behind that driver can stop in time.  I have had two experiences where we got very lucky both times that we did not have a serious accident.  One other time, though not serious two drivers on behind the other did hit each other on the way home from a camping trip.

            It's that sudden need to stop that makes it unsafe.

            Frosty6981@... wrote:

             Im just a scout so I'm in the dark about the danger of caravaning.  Could some one explan to me what makes it so dangerious.  I can see what makes it safe but not unsafe.

            In a message dated 5/12/02 6:40:32 PM Central Daylight Time, gary@... writes:
             

            Subj:Re: [scoutradio] Car Caravans...
            Date:5/12/02 6:40:32 PM Central Daylight Time
            From:gary@...
            Reply-to:scoutradio@yahoogroups.com
            To:scoutradio@yahoogroups.com
            Sent from the Internet
             
             

            When you sign a Tour Permit, you agree to respect a list of safety guidelines printed
            on that form.  One of those is that you acknowledge that "caravanning" is an unsafe
            practice and that you will not attempt to maintain a caravan of vehicles on public
            roads.  I personally agree fully with that perspective; and can give you examples of
            actions taken on the road taken to maintain a caravan, that have put our troop in some
            jeapordy.  But I have been overruled by our troop leadership, who believes that we
            can best express respect for these rules by violating them.  After all, it must be safe,
            because we have always done it, and it makes us feel special on the road.

            Why do we sign a Tour Permit anyway?  Because this is the instrument by which
            the BSA recognizes your event as a BSA activity, covered by the BSA liability
            insurance, which I expect is a good chunk of the hefty "chartering" fees.

            Gary Thorburn  KD1TE
            gary@...
             

            -----Original Message-----
            From: Carter J Wood <carterjwood@...>
            To: scoutradio@yahoogroups.com <scoutradio@yahoogroups.com>
            Date: Sunday, May 12, 2002 10:38 AM
            Subject: [scoutradio] Car Caravans...
             

            have been gone for several years.  Use "The Guide to
            Safe Scouting" as a reference.

            __________________________________________________
            Do You Yahoo!?
            LAUNCH - Your Yahoo! Music Experience
            http://launch.yahoo.com
             

            Check out the UK Radio-Scouting page here at Yahoo!Groups. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/radio-scouting-uk

            Now that you've got new licensees in your unit, why not have them subscibe to http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ScoutRadioYouth

            Great list of Scouting/Amateur Radio web sites:
            http://www.k1dwu.net/ham-links/clubs.-.scouting.phtml

            Visit the "Adventure Radio Society" http://www.natworld.com/ars/

            ScoutRadio start page:
            http://groups.yahoo.com/group/scoutradio (Email archives - member email addresses - change your subscription details, etc.)

            Post message: scoutradio@yahoogroups.com
            Unsubscribe:  scoutradio-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
            List owner:   scoutradio-owner@yahoogroups.com

            SCOUTING and AMATEUR RADIO - FUN FOR ALL AGES

            Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.

             
             
             

            73, Reid KCØIDI

            Check out the UK Radio-Scouting page here at Yahoo!Groups. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/radio-scouting-uk

            Now that you've got new licensees in your unit, why not have them subscibe to http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ScoutRadioYouth

            Great list of Scouting/Amateur Radio web sites:
            http://www.k1dwu.net/ham-links/clubs.-.scouting.phtml

            Visit the "Adventure Radio Society" http://www.natworld.com/ars/

            ScoutRadio start page:
            http://groups.yahoo.com/group/scoutradio (Email archives - member email addresses - change your subscription details, etc.)

            Post message: scoutradio@yahoogroups.com
            Unsubscribe:  scoutradio-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
            List owner:   scoutradio-owner@yahoogroups.com

            SCOUTING and AMATEUR RADIO - FUN FOR ALL AGES

            Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.

             
          • Roger Woods
            Could we please take this to somewhere where it is ON TOPIC! This has nothing to do with Radio and I am totally unconcered about BSA rules and regs unless they
            Message 5 of 14 , May 12, 2002
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              Could we please take this to somewhere where it is ON TOPIC!

              This has nothing to do with Radio and I am totally unconcered about BSA rules and regs unless they effect radio.

              Sorry guys but this is getting out of hand.

              Roger G8XAN
            • Bill Stewart
              Here, Here!!!! 73, Bill Stewart, W2BSA
              Message 6 of 14 , May 13, 2002
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                Here, Here!!!!

                73,

                Bill Stewart, W2BSA

                Roger Woods wrote:

                > Could we please take this to somewhere where it is ON TOPIC!
                >
                > This has nothing to do with Radio and I am totally unconcered about
                > BSA rules and regs unless they effect radio.
                >
                > Sorry guys but this is getting out of hand.
                >
                > Roger G8XAN
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
                > ADVERTISEMENT
                > <http://us.a1.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/a/ed/ediets/06042002_300x250_orange_01.gif>
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                >
                > <http://rd.yahoo.com/M=194081.2053425.3521449.1829184/D=egroupweb/S=1705066162:HM/A=1046314/R=2/*http://www.ediets.com/start.cfm?code=3225>
                >
                > Height: ft in
                > Weight:
                > Sex: F M
                >
                >
                > Check out the UK Radio-Scouting page here at Yahoo!Groups.
                > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/radio-scouting-uk
                >
                > Now that you've got new licensees in your unit, why not have them
                > subscibe to http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ScoutRadioYouth
                >
                > Great list of Scouting/Amateur Radio web sites:
                > http://www.k1dwu.net/ham-links/clubs.-.scouting.phtml
                >
                > Visit the "Adventure Radio Society" http://www.natworld.com/ars/
                >
                > ScoutRadio start page:
                > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/scoutradio (Email archives - member
                > email addresses - change your subscription details, etc.)
                >
                > Post message: scoutradio@yahoogroups.com
                > Unsubscribe: scoutradio-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                > List owner: scoutradio-owner@yahoogroups.com
                >
                > SCOUTING and AMATEUR RADIO - FUN FOR ALL AGES
                >
                > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service
                > <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> .
              • Bob Bruninga
                ... Wow, I disagree completely. The rules on CONVOY and (incorrect interpretation as it applies to caravans) is exactly a RADIO issue. Knowing and
                Message 7 of 14 , May 13, 2002
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                  > Could we please take this to somewhere where it is ON TOPIC! This has
                  > nothing to do with Radio and I am totally unconcered about BSA rules and
                  > regs unless they effect radio.

                  Wow, I disagree completely. The rules on CONVOY and (incorrect
                  interpretation as it applies to caravans) is exactly a RADIO issue.
                  Knowing and understanding the safety guidelines helps us integrate RADIO
                  into the scout training and education programs. Vehicles traveling to a
                  SCOUT venue is the #1 application for radio!

                  How to get BSA to endores RADIO and to make it a part of the Scouting
                  learning experience is my #1 goal in subscribing to this list. We must
                  find a way to get RADIO education into the souting program (I think it
                  should be a TENDERFOOT requirement to know about FRS, PL tones, Squelch
                  and how to operate a radio).

                  If we dont get this FRS mess under some LEADERSHIP we as HAMS are going to
                  suffer as "radio" becomes a "toy", banned from all venue's due to the
                  illiteracy of the few...

                  See my SHACKS-4-PACKS project:

                  http://www.ew.usna.edu/~bruninga/shacks4packs.html

                  And read it carefully. It is not just a SHED. It is a foot in the door
                  to get BSA to recognize RADIO as something that MUST BE TAUGHT.

                  de WB4APR, Bob
                • Bill Stewart
                  Couldn t agree with you more Bob. I said Here, Here because we were getting bogged down with the ad nausium quoting and re-quoting of BSA regs and NO-ONE
                  Message 8 of 14 , May 13, 2002
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                    Couldn't agree with you more Bob. I said "Here, Here" because we were
                    getting bogged down with the ad nausium quoting and
                    re-quoting of BSA regs and NO-ONE saying anything useful.
                    The best way I know of to avoid the caravan issue is to get everyone FRS
                    or even better GET LICENSED. Running mobile on simplex
                    is far better than FRS since your range is much longer. You don't have
                    to see the next car.
                    If you are the leader you can tell others where you are going.

                    My 2 cents

                    Bill Stewart, W2BSA

                    Bob Bruninga wrote:

                    > > Could we please take this to somewhere where it is ON TOPIC! This has
                    > > nothing to do with Radio and I am totally unconcered about BSA rules and
                    > > regs unless they effect radio.
                    >
                    > Wow, I disagree completely. The rules on CONVOY and (incorrect
                    > interpretation as it applies to caravans) is exactly a RADIO issue.
                    > Knowing and understanding the safety guidelines helps us integrate RADIO
                    > into the scout training and education programs. Vehicles traveling to a
                    > SCOUT venue is the #1 application for radio!
                    >
                    > How to get BSA to endores RADIO and to make it a part of the Scouting
                    > learning experience is my #1 goal in subscribing to this list. We must
                    > find a way to get RADIO education into the souting program (I think it
                    > should be a TENDERFOOT requirement to know about FRS, PL tones, Squelch
                    > and how to operate a radio).
                    >
                    > If we dont get this FRS mess under some LEADERSHIP we as HAMS are going to
                    > suffer as "radio" becomes a "toy", banned from all venue's due to the
                    > illiteracy of the few...
                    >
                    > See my SHACKS-4-PACKS project:
                    >
                    > http://www.ew.usna.edu/~bruninga/shacks4packs.html
                    > <http://www.ew.usna.edu/%7Ebruninga/shacks4packs.html>
                    >
                    > And read it carefully. It is not just a SHED. It is a foot in the door
                    > to get BSA to recognize RADIO as something that MUST BE TAUGHT.
                    >
                    > de WB4APR, Bob
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
                    > ADVERTISEMENT
                    >
                    >
                    > Check out the UK Radio-Scouting page here at Yahoo!Groups.
                    > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/radio-scouting-uk
                    >
                    > Now that you've got new licensees in your unit, why not have them
                    > subscibe to http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ScoutRadioYouth
                    >
                    > Great list of Scouting/Amateur Radio web sites:
                    > http://www.k1dwu.net/ham-links/clubs.-.scouting.phtml
                    >
                    > Visit the "Adventure Radio Society" http://www.natworld.com/ars/
                    >
                    > ScoutRadio start page:
                    > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/scoutradio (Email archives - member
                    > email addresses - change your subscription details, etc.)
                    >
                    > Post message: scoutradio@yahoogroups.com
                    > Unsubscribe: scoutradio-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                    > List owner: scoutradio-owner@yahoogroups.com
                    >
                    > SCOUTING and AMATEUR RADIO - FUN FOR ALL AGES
                    >
                    > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service
                    > <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> .
                  • Roger Woods
                    Sorry but I see little correlation discuss Radio by all means but remember that: 1. This list is international. 2. Your problem appears to be specific to BSA -
                    Message 9 of 14 , May 13, 2002
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                      Sorry but I see little correlation discuss Radio by all means but remember that:

                      1. This list is international.
                      2. Your problem appears to be specific to BSA - we have Scout radio badges in UK.
                      3. In most of the arguments I saw little to do with radio and more about stopping, maps routes etc.


                      Take it to your own scouting group news topic. Please.

                      Thanks

                      Roger G8XAN

                      p.s. I could also chat re foundation licence and Scouts but would not - its more appropriate to UK and their channels.
                    • Bill Stewart
                      Roger I would dare say that the problem is not limited to BSA. I m sure that the equivalent publication in the UK to our Guide to Safe Scouting addresses the
                      Message 10 of 14 , May 13, 2002
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                        Roger I would dare say that the problem is not limited to BSA. I'm sure
                        that the equivalent publication in the UK to our "Guide to Safe
                        Scouting" addresses the
                        issue as well. The point that BOB and I make is that RADIO is a solution
                        to the problem. We should be encouraging all of our Leaders to learn
                        about RADIO
                        and teach the youngsters about RADIO's uses. Our various RADIO Merit
                        badges are only one way to do it.

                        73,

                        Bill, W2BSA

                        Roger Woods wrote:

                        > Sorry but I see little correlation discuss Radio by all means but
                        > remember that:
                        >
                        > 1. This list is international.
                        > 2. Your problem appears to be specific to BSA - we have Scout radio
                        > badges in UK.
                        > 3. In most of the arguments I saw little to do with radio and more
                        > about stopping, maps routes etc.
                        >
                        >
                        > Take it to your own scouting group news topic. Please.
                        >
                        > Thanks
                        >
                        > Roger G8XAN
                        >
                        > p.s. I could also chat re foundation licence and Scouts but would not
                        > - its more appropriate to UK and their channels.
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
                        > ADVERTISEMENT
                        >
                        >
                        > Check out the UK Radio-Scouting page here at Yahoo!Groups.
                        > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/radio-scouting-uk
                        >
                        > Now that you've got new licensees in your unit, why not have them
                        > subscibe to http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ScoutRadioYouth
                        >
                        > Great list of Scouting/Amateur Radio web sites:
                        > http://www.k1dwu.net/ham-links/clubs.-.scouting.phtml
                        >
                        > Visit the "Adventure Radio Society" http://www.natworld.com/ars/
                        >
                        > ScoutRadio start page:
                        > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/scoutradio (Email archives - member
                        > email addresses - change your subscription details, etc.)
                        >
                        > Post message: scoutradio@yahoogroups.com
                        > Unsubscribe: scoutradio-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                        > List owner: scoutradio-owner@yahoogroups.com
                        >
                        > SCOUTING and AMATEUR RADIO - FUN FOR ALL AGES
                        >
                        > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service
                        > <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> .
                      • Carter J Wood
                        Here s another idea - let s all just gripe and grouse at each other - pick apart every statement and opinion as if the whole world of Ham Radio and Scouting
                        Message 11 of 14 , May 13, 2002
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                          Here's another idea - let's all just gripe and grouse
                          at each other - pick apart every statement and opinion
                          as if the whole world of Ham Radio and Scouting
                          pivoted on the most minor point. A Scout is Cheerful.

                          Maybe I'm lucky - my email does not charge for every
                          message and it does have a 'Delete' key for any note
                          that might offend my sensitivities.


                          AG4LK

                          =====
                          Carter J Wood
                          SE288, SR-X, NAUMS
                          Council Commissioner
                          Northeast Georgia Council

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                        • Fred Stevens K2FRD
                          ... I wouldn t mind hearing about the foundation license and UK Scouting. I know little about either. -- 73 de Fred Stevens K2FRD Chenango Co. (NY) Assistant
                          Message 12 of 14 , May 13, 2002
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                            At 18:27 +0100 13/05/2002, Roger Woods wrote:
                            >
                            >p.s. I could also chat re foundation licence and Scouts but would
                            >not - its more appropriate to UK and their channels.

                            I wouldn't mind hearing about the foundation license and UK Scouting.
                            I know little about either.
                            --
                            73 de Fred Stevens K2FRD
                            Chenango Co. (NY) Assistant Emergency Coordinator
                            Foothills District, Otschodela Council BSA Committees
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