Re: [scoutradio] FRS radio for Scouts and HAMS...
- I agree- and my scouts certainly use them already.But- two points- I believe ham calls are only to be used on ham frequencies- I remember a reg about that. You CAN make up calls- Patrol names would be acceptable.Also- FRS rule 4 prohibits attaching anything to a radio that is not FCC approved for that radio-I know speaker-mikes do not have FCC tags- but I believe that a simplex repeater is not permitted on FRS- I think you have to be on MURS for that.That said, also any repeater like a simplex repeater would have to be under the supervision and control of an operator (at least on the ham freqs) Gotta be near by or control by anothe means (phone or control link radio) (the three minute rule)I agree this is a very good way for kids to "practice" being a ham- and then I take them over to the SGC 2020 and they get to talk to Europe!My wife KB3GMC, my son KB3EOE and I use these rigs at hamfests- frequently the ham simplex channels are all busy.Unfortunately- small business has discovered these rigs too- the welding supply across the street from work uses them on their campus...certainly illegal...73LarryKB3CUF----- Original Message -----From: Bob BruningaSent: Monday, March 11, 2002 2:22 PMSubject: [scoutradio] FRS radio for Scouts and HAMS...After now a few days of driving around with the radio shack roof-mount FRS
mobile, I am pleased with the $29 purchase. (I bought 4 more). In
response to some negative private Emails I received about my interest in
FRS, I will summarize some things I think are useful:
1) FRS is a radio. Use any radio that is appropriate for the need athand
2) FRS can be thought of as a license-free entry level into HAM radio
3) Once they see the range on HAM radio, they will want to get a license
4) FRS should always consider ch 1 tone 0 as the universal calling ch.
5) But for HAMS needing to QSY to a private channel, use "73" (Ch7-PL-3)
6) As a secondary HAM channel also consider "52"...
7) The RS Simplex repeater plugged into any FRS with CTCSS is great for
supporting public service needs. We now have one on ch 7/3.
8) Being powerd from the cigarette lighter, leave it on all the time.
9) Use FRS legally. Use your HAM call to show them good procedures
10) Never criticize ANYONE on the air. Show good procedures by example.
11) APRS is not legal on FRS. Dont do it.
12) Use MULS instead if you must have a license free APRS application.
13) Its not legal to operate a HAM radio on FRS frequencies. Dont do it.
14) Buy an FRS radio and leave your HAM radio on HAM frequencies.
15) Get kids on the air responsibly. Consider FRS nights (see web page)
I have learned these things about the Radio Shack roor mount FRS mobile
* it draws 35 Ma in STBY receive, 75 MA with backlight on, and 225ma XMT
* The interface is an 11 wire cable (bummer)
* Channel "73" is 462.7125 MHz with a PL tone of 74.4 MHz.
* It has a great one-button method for turning off PL. This is perfect
for selecting to use the simplex repeater (with PL) or going direct
The IDEAL FRS radio has separate selection for TX PL and for RX PL. this
way you can LISTEN to all traffic on a channel, but still use PL to
call someone specific on the same channel. I have only found one radio
that does this. It was the MAXON FRS-214. I would love to hear of any
MY FRS WEB page http://www.ew.usna.edu/~bruninga/frsnight.html
I post this on the APRS SIG, because FRS is a great additon to any Mobile
APRS installation in support of public service events where the ability to
communicate with the general public is of great value.
de WB4APR, BOb
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- At 10:36 AM 3/13/02 -0500, you wrote:
Regarding FRS radios, you said:
Unfortunately- small business has discovered these rigs too- the welding supply across the street from work uses them on their campus...certainly illegal...
Not even slightly illegal. While the service name may use the term 'family' there's no limitation on who you talk to or why.
Please, if you're going to be making a declaration about the FCC R&R, please quote the regulation, it will help prevent a lot of confusion.
But- two points- I believe ham calls are only to be used on ham frequencies- I remember a reg about that.
Can you please cite the rule you're referring to? I find my call sign is a good unit number on the bands I share with other hams that aren't amateur frequencies, for example, the county's 800 MHz trunking system.
Ray J. Vaughan, MS, CBTE, CERTKD4BBM PG-7-15266ray@...
- Sir, you are correct on both points.
I stand corrected. I suppose that the reg I thought I recalled about
using Ham calls on other services must have been one of those "hints"
that people like me sometimes end up believing.
There is no ID requirement in FRS, optional in CB, and license # in
27 Mhz 5W AM would make much more of a impact than the others- yet no
By inference, the FCC would prefer (?) GMRS for business purposes-
but since the part 95 regs are a mish mash of rules- some extremely
precise and some extremely vague- the FRS says any one can talk to
anyone else- as long as it is about legal activity. For that matter-
I do not see any language about indecent or outragous behavior. I
guess the impact of a 300mw transmitter is overlooked by the FCC. My
wife was very displeased when she heard a delivery driver verbally
assaulting another user on "his channel" complete with profanity.
By the way- this FRS service was started at the request of Tandy.
I think repeaters are allowed under MURS and GMRS (implied there :>) )
--- In scoutradio@y..., Ray Vaughan <ray@r...> wrote:
> At 10:36 AM 3/13/02 -0500, you wrote:
> Regarding FRS radios, you said:
> >Unfortunately- small business has discovered these rigs too- the
welding supply across the street from work uses them on their
> Not even slightly illegal. While the service name may use the
term 'family' there's no limitation on who you talk to or why.
> Please, if you're going to be making a declaration about the FCC
R&R, please quote the regulation, it will help prevent a lot of
> >But- two points- I believe ham calls are only to be used on ham
frequencies- I remember a reg about that.
> Can you please cite the rule you're referring to? I find my call
sign is a good unit number on the bands I share with other hams that
aren't amateur frequencies, for example, the county's 800 MHz
> Ray J. Vaughan, MS, CBTE, CERT
> KD4BBM PG-7-15266
- I'll look in the FCC rulebook; however, I do believe common sense would
prevail in this case. Otherwise the FCC would not give a hoot if I used my
police callsign on the Ham bands.
In a message dated 3/13/02 10:23:02 AM Central Standard Time,
> Can you please cite the rule you're referring to? I find my call sign is
> good unit number on the bands I share with other hams that aren't amateurClay Mayrose, WA6LBU
> frequencies, for example, the county's 800 MHz trunking system.
"You have to operate everyday as if the whole world were listening, because
these days, it is." - The FCC's Riley Hollingsworth, K4ZDH
- At 07:34 PM 3/13/02 -0500, you wrote:
>I'll look in the FCC rulebook; however, I do believe common sense would prevail in this case. Otherwise the FCC would not give a hoot if I used my police callsign on the Ham bands.Exactly. As far as the FCC is concerned, you can even call yourself Clay on the air. As long as you also use WA6LBU as often as is required in Part 97. Just like using a tactical call sign on the ham bands during a special event. If you were on-duty and on the ham bands for the event, it would make perfect sense to use your police unit number on the ham band. btw, I don't think anyone these days uses FCC callsigns on police or fire channels, it's either automated, or said by the dispatcher every 15 minutes. Otherwise it's all tactical or unit numbers.
You can call me anything you would like, and I can call myself anything I like as long as I also take care of the legal requirements.
Ray J. Vaughan, MS, CBTE, CERT
- Unfortunately, the most logical choice is not always the choice of those
writing some of the rules. As I understand it, Third Party rules have
been in effect for a long time, and are probably much outdated. However,
they still are in effect, and we need to follow them until changed. It
appears that much of the problem comes from the fact that the governments
of many of the foreign countries control the telecommunications systems,
and in many places, own the systems. There is a concern (right or wrong)
that Amateur Radio might cut into the income of the telecom systems, so
the governments are very restrictive on types of communications permitted
on the Amateur bands. It is disappointing that Scouts can't talk to
everyone on the bands, but we have to live with that fact at present. I
don't know if we can do anything to change it as the US will enter into a
treaty with any of the other countires willing to do so to permit Third
Party traffic, as has been done with most of the Central and South
American countries, along with a few in other parts of the world. The
change in attitude must come from the foreign governments.
The ones who will lose the most in case of a violation are the foreign
operators. We have to respect their license.
It is good that this subject had come to light here. Hopefully, it will
prevent some problems down the road related to JOTA and other Scout
related Amateur Radio functions.
Milt Forsberg, K9QZI
On Mon, 11 Mar 2002, Fred Stevens K2FRD wrote:
> Here's the answer I just received from Riley Hollingsworth. I don't
> like it because it makes me wrong, but I'll accept it. For now.
> However, it's clearly interpretive and subject to
> policy/interpretation changes. I'd like to see the intent of the
> original legislation, both at the U.S. Federal and ITU levels. It is
> not logical that a control operator may communicate with a distant
> operator in a non-treaty nation, but a non-ham standing right next to
> him/her may not unless this is the precise intent of this regulation,
> to wit: prevent non-licensed hams from talking on the radio under any
> circumstances. If this IS the intent, why doesn't it clearly say so
> instead of masterful obfuscation? I need to do more follow-up and
> research, but I don't have the time right now. Once again, the losers
> are the Scouts.
> de Fred
> Fred--here's the answer.
> Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 10:37:08 -0500
> From: "William Cross" <BCROSS@...>
> To: "Riley Hollingsworth" <RHOLLING@...>
> Subject: Re: Fwd: THIRD PARTY TRAFFIC
> Mime-Version: 1.0
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
> Content-Disposition: inline
> You got it-the rule 97.115(a)(2) says "No amateur station shall
> transmit messages for a third party to any station within the
> jurisdiction of any foreign government whose administration has not
> made such an arrangement [with the United States to allow amateur
> stations to be used for transmitting international communications on
> behalf of third parties].
> What the message is about or how close the 3rd party is to the
> control operator of the station in the US is irrelevant: No
> agreement-no messages. Straight from the international Radio