Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.

Re: [scoutradio] FRS radio for Scouts and HAMS...

Expand Messages
  • Larry Acklin
    I agree- and my scouts certainly use them already. But- two points- I believe ham calls are only to be used on ham frequencies- I remember a reg about that.
    Message 1 of 9 , Mar 13, 2002
    • 0 Attachment
      I agree- and my scouts certainly use them already.
       
      But- two points- I believe ham calls are only to be used on ham frequencies- I remember a reg about that.  You CAN make up calls- Patrol names would be acceptable.
       
      Also- FRS rule 4 prohibits attaching anything to a radio that is not FCC approved for that radio-
       
      I know speaker-mikes do not have FCC tags- but I believe that a simplex repeater is not permitted on FRS- I think you have to be on MURS for that.
       
      That said, also any repeater like a simplex repeater would have to be under the supervision and control of an operator (at least on the ham freqs)  Gotta be near by or control by anothe means (phone or control link radio) (the three minute rule)
       
      I agree this is a very good way for kids to "practice" being a ham- and then I take them over to the SGC 2020 and they get to talk to Europe!
       
       
      My wife KB3GMC, my son KB3EOE  and I use these rigs at hamfests- frequently the ham simplex channels are all busy.
       
      Unfortunately- small business has discovered these rigs too- the welding supply across the street from work uses them on their campus...certainly illegal...
       
      73
      Larry
      KB3CUF
      ----- Original Message -----
      Sent: Monday, March 11, 2002 2:22 PM
      Subject: [scoutradio] FRS radio for Scouts and HAMS...

      After now a few days of driving around with the radio shack roof-mount FRS
      mobile, I am pleased with the $29 purchase. (I bought 4 more).  In
      response to some negative private Emails I received about my interest in
      FRS, I will summarize some things I think are useful:

      1) FRS is a radio. Use any radio that is appropriate for the need athand
      2) FRS can be thought of as a license-free entry level into HAM radio
      3) Once they see the range on HAM radio, they will want to get a license
      4) FRS should always consider ch 1 tone 0 as the universal calling ch.
      5) But for HAMS needing to QSY to a private channel, use "73" (Ch7-PL-3)
      6) As a secondary HAM channel also consider "52"...
      7) The RS Simplex repeater plugged into any FRS with CTCSS is great for
         supporting public service needs.  We now have one on ch 7/3.
      8) Being powerd from the cigarette lighter, leave it on all the time.
      9) Use FRS legally.  Use your HAM call to show them good procedures
      10) Never criticize ANYONE on the air.  Show good procedures by example.
      11) APRS is not legal on FRS.  Dont do it.
      12) Use MULS instead if you must have a license free APRS application.
      13) Its not legal to operate a HAM radio on FRS frequencies.  Dont do it.
      14) Buy an FRS radio and leave your HAM radio on HAM frequencies.
      15) Get kids on the air responsibly.  Consider FRS nights (see web page)

      I have learned these things about the Radio Shack roor mount FRS mobile
      radio:

      * it draws 35 Ma in STBY receive, 75 MA with backlight on, and 225ma XMT
      * The interface is an 11 wire cable (bummer)
      * Channel "73" is 462.7125 MHz with a PL tone of 74.4 MHz.
      * It has a great one-button method for turning off PL.  This is perfect
        for selecting to use the simplex repeater (with PL) or going direct
        (without PL).

      The IDEAL FRS radio has separate selection for TX PL and for RX PL.  this
      way you can LISTEN to all traffic on a channel, but still use PL to
      call someone specific on the same channel.  I have only found one radio
      that does this.  It was the MAXON FRS-214.  I would love to hear of any
      others..

      MY FRS WEB page     http://www.ew.usna.edu/~bruninga/frsnight.html

      I post this on the APRS SIG, because FRS is a great additon to any Mobile
      APRS installation in support of public service events where the ability to
      communicate with the general public is of great value.

      de WB4APR, BOb




      Check out the UK Radio-Scouting page here at Yahoo!Groups. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/radio-scouting-uk

      Now that you've got new licensees in your unit, why not have them subscibe to http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ScoutRadioYouth

      Great list of Scouting/Amateur Radio web sites:
      http://www.k1dwu.net/ham-links/clubs.-.scouting.phtml

      Visit the "Adventure Radio Society" http://www.natworld.com/ars/

      ScoutRadio start page:
      http://groups.yahoo.com/group/scoutradio (Email archives - member email addresses - change your subscription details, etc.)

      Post message: scoutradio@yahoogroups.com
      Unsubscribe:  scoutradio-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
      List owner:   scoutradio-owner@yahoogroups.com

      SCOUTING and AMATEUR RADIO - FUN FOR ALL AGES


      Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
    • Ray Vaughan
      At 10:36 AM 3/13/02 -0500, you wrote: ... Not even slightly illegal. While the service name may use the term family there s no limitation on who you talk
      Message 2 of 9 , Mar 13, 2002
      • 0 Attachment
        At 10:36 AM 3/13/02 -0500, you wrote:

        Regarding FRS radios, you said:

        Unfortunately- small business has discovered these rigs too- the welding supply across the street from work uses them on their campus...certainly illegal...

        Not even slightly illegal.   While the service name may use the term 'family' there's no limitation on who you talk to or why.  

        Please, if you're going to be making a declaration about the FCC R&R, please quote the regulation, it will help prevent a lot of confusion.  

        But- two points- I believe ham calls are only to be used on ham frequencies- I remember a reg about that. 

        Can you please cite the rule you're referring to?   I find my call sign is a good unit number on the bands I share with other hams that aren't amateur frequencies, for example, the county's 800 MHz trunking system.

        Thanks.






        Ray J. Vaughan, MS, CBTE, CERT
        KD4BBM  PG-7-15266
        ray@...
        §97.1(c)-(d)
      • kb3cuf
        Sir, you are correct on both points. I stand corrected. I suppose that the reg I thought I recalled about using Ham calls on other services must have been one
        Message 3 of 9 , Mar 13, 2002
        • 0 Attachment
          Sir, you are correct on both points.
          I stand corrected. I suppose that the reg I thought I recalled about
          using Ham calls on other services must have been one of those "hints"
          that people like me sometimes end up believing.

          There is no ID requirement in FRS, optional in CB, and license # in
          GRMS-

          27 Mhz 5W AM would make much more of a impact than the others- yet no
          ID required...

          By inference, the FCC would prefer (?) GMRS for business purposes-
          but since the part 95 regs are a mish mash of rules- some extremely
          precise and some extremely vague- the FRS says any one can talk to
          anyone else- as long as it is about legal activity. For that matter-
          I do not see any language about indecent or outragous behavior. I
          guess the impact of a 300mw transmitter is overlooked by the FCC. My
          wife was very displeased when she heard a delivery driver verbally
          assaulting another user on "his channel" complete with profanity.
          [family?]

          By the way- this FRS service was started at the request of Tandy.

          I think repeaters are allowed under MURS and GMRS (implied there :>) )

          73
          Larry
          KB3CUF




          --- In scoutradio@y..., Ray Vaughan <ray@r...> wrote:
          > At 10:36 AM 3/13/02 -0500, you wrote:
          >
          > Regarding FRS radios, you said:
          >
          > >Unfortunately- small business has discovered these rigs too- the
          welding supply across the street from work uses them on their
          campus...certainly illegal...
          >
          > Not even slightly illegal. While the service name may use the
          term 'family' there's no limitation on who you talk to or why.
          >
          > Please, if you're going to be making a declaration about the FCC
          R&R, please quote the regulation, it will help prevent a lot of
          confusion.
          >
          > >But- two points- I believe ham calls are only to be used on ham
          frequencies- I remember a reg about that.
          >
          > Can you please cite the rule you're referring to? I find my call
          sign is a good unit number on the bands I share with other hams that
          aren't amateur frequencies, for example, the county's 800 MHz
          trunking system.
          >
          > Thanks.
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > Ray J. Vaughan, MS, CBTE, CERT
          > KD4BBM PG-7-15266
          > ray@r...
          > http://www.rayvaughan.com/
          > §97.1(c)-(d)
        • ClayWA6LBU@aol.com
          I ll look in the FCC rulebook; however, I do believe common sense would prevail in this case. Otherwise the FCC would not give a hoot if I used my police
          Message 4 of 9 , Mar 13, 2002
          • 0 Attachment
            I'll look in the FCC rulebook; however, I do believe common sense would
            prevail in this case. Otherwise the FCC would not give a hoot if I used my
            police callsign on the Ham bands.

            Clay WA6LBU

            In a message dated 3/13/02 10:23:02 AM Central Standard Time,
            ray@... writes:

            >
            > Can you please cite the rule you're referring to? I find my call sign is
            a
            > good unit number on the bands I share with other hams that aren't amateur
            > frequencies, for example, the county's 800 MHz trunking system.
            >


            Clay Mayrose, WA6LBU

            "You have to operate everyday as if the whole world were listening, because
            these days, it is." - The FCC's Riley Hollingsworth, K4ZDH
          • Ray Vaughan
            ... Exactly. As far as the FCC is concerned, you can even call yourself Clay on the air. As long as you also use WA6LBU as often as is required in Part 97.
            Message 5 of 9 , Mar 13, 2002
            • 0 Attachment
              At 07:34 PM 3/13/02 -0500, you wrote:
              >I'll look in the FCC rulebook; however, I do believe common sense would prevail in this case. Otherwise the FCC would not give a hoot if I used my police callsign on the Ham bands.

              Exactly. As far as the FCC is concerned, you can even call yourself Clay on the air. As long as you also use WA6LBU as often as is required in Part 97. Just like using a tactical call sign on the ham bands during a special event. If you were on-duty and on the ham bands for the event, it would make perfect sense to use your police unit number on the ham band. btw, I don't think anyone these days uses FCC callsigns on police or fire channels, it's either automated, or said by the dispatcher every 15 minutes. Otherwise it's all tactical or unit numbers.

              You can call me anything you would like, and I can call myself anything I like as long as I also take care of the legal requirements.

              Ray J. Vaughan, MS, CBTE, CERT
              KD4BBM PG-7-15266
              ray@...
              http://www.rayvaughan.com/
              §97.1(c)-(d)
            • Milt Forsberg
              Unfortunately, the most logical choice is not always the choice of those writing some of the rules. As I understand it, Third Party rules have been in effect
              Message 6 of 9 , Mar 14, 2002
              • 0 Attachment
                Unfortunately, the most logical choice is not always the choice of those
                writing some of the rules. As I understand it, Third Party rules have
                been in effect for a long time, and are probably much outdated. However,
                they still are in effect, and we need to follow them until changed. It
                appears that much of the problem comes from the fact that the governments
                of many of the foreign countries control the telecommunications systems,
                and in many places, own the systems. There is a concern (right or wrong)
                that Amateur Radio might cut into the income of the telecom systems, so
                the governments are very restrictive on types of communications permitted
                on the Amateur bands. It is disappointing that Scouts can't talk to
                everyone on the bands, but we have to live with that fact at present. I
                don't know if we can do anything to change it as the US will enter into a
                treaty with any of the other countires willing to do so to permit Third
                Party traffic, as has been done with most of the Central and South
                American countries, along with a few in other parts of the world. The
                change in attitude must come from the foreign governments.

                The ones who will lose the most in case of a violation are the foreign
                operators. We have to respect their license.

                It is good that this subject had come to light here. Hopefully, it will
                prevent some problems down the road related to JOTA and other Scout
                related Amateur Radio functions.

                Milt Forsberg, K9QZI
                Champaign, IL


                On Mon, 11 Mar 2002, Fred Stevens K2FRD wrote:

                > Here's the answer I just received from Riley Hollingsworth. I don't
                > like it because it makes me wrong, but I'll accept it. For now.
                > However, it's clearly interpretive and subject to
                > policy/interpretation changes. I'd like to see the intent of the
                > original legislation, both at the U.S. Federal and ITU levels. It is
                > not logical that a control operator may communicate with a distant
                > operator in a non-treaty nation, but a non-ham standing right next to
                > him/her may not unless this is the precise intent of this regulation,
                > to wit: prevent non-licensed hams from talking on the radio under any
                > circumstances. If this IS the intent, why doesn't it clearly say so
                > instead of masterful obfuscation? I need to do more follow-up and
                > research, but I don't have the time right now. Once again, the losers
                > are the Scouts.
                >
                > de Fred
                > K2FRD
                >
                > ****************************
                >
                > Fred--here's the answer.
                >
                > Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 10:37:08 -0500
                > From: "William Cross" <BCROSS@...>
                > To: "Riley Hollingsworth" <RHOLLING@...>
                > Subject: Re: Fwd: THIRD PARTY TRAFFIC
                > Mime-Version: 1.0
                > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
                > Content-Disposition: inline
                >
                > You got it-the rule 97.115(a)(2) says "No amateur station shall
                > transmit messages for a third party to any station within the
                > jurisdiction of any foreign government whose administration has not
                > made such an arrangement [with the United States to allow amateur
                > stations to be used for transmitting international communications on
                > behalf of third parties].
                >
                > What the message is about or how close the 3rd party is to the
                > control operator of the station in the US is irrelevant: No
                > agreement-no messages. Straight from the international Radio
                > Regulations.
                >
                > Bill
              Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.