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Re: [ScoutRadio] Radio Scouting Emblem

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  • Paul Joosten
    My 2 cents: Why bother with a new emblem? The World logo has it all and is internationaly recognised. A big pro for an internationally inclined kind of
    Message 1 of 27 , Nov 22, 2011
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      My 2 cents: Why bother with a new emblem? The World logo has it all and is internationaly recognised. A big pro for an internationally inclined kind of scouting I'd say.

      73 and YIS,

      Paul PA5UL

      2011/11/23 Jim <jbwilson@...>
      I've asked the graphic designers at BSA National Council to develop a Radio Scouting emblem to be used in the USA in place of the aged world radio scouting emblem. Please look over the four finalists and vote for your favorite at

      http://www.k2bsa.net/2011/10/radio-scouting-emblem/

      Thanks.

      Jim, K5ND



      ------------------------------------

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    • Norm Huber
      ... I voted for the Globe and headphones without revisiting the current emblem choosing for the same reason mentioned in the comments of many. It symbolizes
      Message 2 of 27 , Nov 23, 2011
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        On 11/22/2011 18:42, Jim wrote:
        > I've asked the graphic designers at BSA National Council to develop a
        > Radio Scouting emblem to be used in the USA in place of the aged world
        > radio scouting emblem. Please look over the four finalists and vote for
        > your favorite at

        I voted for the Globe and headphones without revisiting the current
        emblem choosing for the same reason mentioned in the comments of many.
        It symbolizes the World nature of Scouting and radio. I hadn't thought
        of the purple as a symbolic color of world scouting. The flags of the
        nations accents that universality {As long as we are not creating DX
        entities too rapidly).

        ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
        - Norm - N9ZKS - Central Illinois
        - Motorcyclist, Bicyclist, Ham, Scouter
        - '05 Goldwing - Yellow - Rex - 123,000 miles
        - '87 Goldwing Interstate - Lagniappe Too - 66,000 miles
        - LAISSEZ LES BON TEMPS ROULER!
        - IBA 25533, MARC, WOTI, GWRRA, AMA, ARRL
        -
        http://www.findu.com/cgi-bin/find.cgi?call=n9zks-5,n9zks-9,n9zks-10&radar=***
      • Rex Hunt
        If it ain t broke...why fix it? Do you wear the World Badge with Pride..........or do you want to change that too? And I bet you think that B.P. (remember him)
        Message 3 of 27 , Nov 23, 2011
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          If it ain't broke...why fix it?
           
          Do you wear the World Badge with Pride..........or do you want to change that too?
           
          And I bet you think that B.P. (remember him) was an American!
           
          This is what makes you guys unpopular sometimes, just because it's not Jazzy or fashionable enough for you and doesn't appeal to YOUR taste.......it's got to be changed.......must be because of the lack of history/tradition I guess.
           
          Ho hum........Rex,
           
           G0CLR, retired Gilwell 'Shack license holder....(The original UK Gilwell!)
           
           
           
          Sorry about the vitriol group.
        • kb3co
          Just what is wrong with the aged world radio scouting emblem? AND very importantly, why must the USA be different? Isn t that a bit obnoxious to depart from
          Message 4 of 27 , Nov 23, 2011
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            Just what is wrong with the "aged" world radio scouting emblem?
            AND very importantly, why must the USA be different? Isn't that a bit obnoxious to depart from the rest of the world radio scouting community?
            This is not a good idea!
            I vote to forget it.

            Charlie

            --- In ScoutRadio@yahoogroups.com, "Jim" <jbwilson@...> wrote:
            >
            > I've asked the graphic designers at BSA National Council to develop a Radio Scouting emblem to be used in the USA in place of the aged world radio scouting emblem. Please look over the four finalists and vote for your favorite at
            >
            > http://www.k2bsa.net/2011/10/radio-scouting-emblem/
            >
            > Thanks.
            >
            > Jim, K5ND
            >
          • Lars Christian Ingerslev
            As a member of the world-wide botherhood of scouts (as I always used to say to scouts being invested), my opinion is that for a world-wide event, the US and
            Message 5 of 27 , Nov 23, 2011
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              As a member of the world-wide botherhood of scouts (as I always used to say to scouts being invested), my opinion is that for a world-wide event, the US and the rest of the world should have a common emblem, just like the one I wear above my left pocket. I am not keen on any of the four suggestions.
               
              AB2SN Christian
               

              To: ScoutRadio@yahoogroups.com
              From: jbwilson@...
              Date: Wed, 23 Nov 2011 00:42:28 +0000
              Subject: [ScoutRadio] Radio Scouting Emblem

               
              I've asked the graphic designers at BSA National Council to develop a Radio Scouting emblem to be used in the USA in place of the aged world radio scouting emblem. Please look over the four finalists and vote for your favorite at

              http://www.k2bsa.net/2011/10/radio-scouting-emblem/

              Thanks.

              Jim, K5ND


            • Frank Heritage
              Hello Rex, hope all well with you... ... As I understand it, this is a discussion about an American Radio Scouting badge, designed by Americans for
              Message 6 of 27 , Nov 23, 2011
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                Hello Rex, hope all well with you...

                On 23 Nov 2011, at 17:31, Rex Hunt wrote:
                 
                If it ain't broke...why fix it?
                Do you wear the World Badge with Pride..........or do you want to change that too?

                As I understand it, this is a discussion about an American Radio Scouting badge, designed by Americans for Americans...
                I don't think there was ever any mention of trying to change the world Radio Scouting badge.

                For the record, I believe the World Radio Scouting logo is owned by WOSM and Richard Middelkoop, PA3BAR. There is a new modern World JOTA logo that has been used on a few pieces of merchandising (see the JOTA shirts in the World Bureau shop) however I don't believe it's been accepted or approved yet as a replacement for the current logo.

                Now my personal 2 penneth worth:
                Rex, as you may remember I am a professional graphic designer, and I have to say when I heard about the plan to design an American BSA Radio Scouting logo I was quite excited - I had visions of something along the lines of their annual JOTA badges, which I think look great! Modern, colourful and appealing to the young people... everything the badge should be. American in design, yes, but then that's the market it's intended for.

                Sadly, I have to say, when I saw the proposals I was very disappointed... they are the kind of thing I would expect to be handed by a non-designer client and told to make something of!  Somewhat dated, over simplistic and not representational of today's Radio Scouting. Not what I expected at all! 

                I'm all for individual countries having their own version of a Radio Scouting logo - design in every country has to be different to accommodate their own market, and indeed the Icelandic Radio Scouting logo is a variation on the World JOTA logo but incorporating their Association's logo - and very well implemented too! But that doesn't detract from the fact we have a great World JOTA logo that unites Radio Scouting around the world... I have a version of a logo that I started to design with a view to proposing it as a UK specific JOTA logo, however I've not felt the logo is quite right yet, nor is there a need in the UK for our own logo at this point in time, but it was an interesting exercise for me.

                I just think there needs to be more of an effort by the graphic designers of BSA!  :-)  I would love to see a BSA Radio Scouting logo along the lines of their annual JOTA badges.

                73 and good Radio Scouting...
                Frank, M0AEU
              • Bill Stewart
                I personally voted for the globe emblem of the 4 choices. I selected it because it is close to the World version but contains the BSA logo thereby making it a
                Message 7 of 27 , Nov 23, 2011
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                  I personally voted for the globe emblem of the 4 choices.  I selected it because it is close to the World version but contains the BSA logo thereby making it a BSA
                  emblem. I don't have a problem with each Scouting organization having it's own emblem. I do believe that it should incorporate the world emblem in i in some way.
                  I agree with Frank in that all 4 choices could be much better. I also agree that it should be something that the youth would want to wear. None of these are near that.
                  Regarding Rex comments. I don't think that there is any intention to move away from the World Brotherhood. But, the intent is to develop an emblem for BSA use with the
                  BSA logo incorporated. The wonderful patches we hand out to the kids each year are a great example of some great emblems.

                  My 2 cents,

                  Bill Stewart, W2BSA

                  On 11/23/2011 7:21 PM, Frank Heritage wrote:
                   

                  Hello Rex, hope all well with you...


                  On 23 Nov 2011, at 17:31, Rex Hunt wrote:
                   
                  If it ain't broke...why fix it?
                  Do you wear the World Badge with Pride..........or do you want to change that too?

                  As I understand it, this is a discussion about an American Radio Scouting badge, designed by Americans for Americans...
                  I don't think there was ever any mention of trying to change the world Radio Scouting badge.

                  For the record, I believe the World Radio Scouting logo is owned by WOSM and Richard Middelkoop, PA3BAR. There is a new modern World JOTA logo that has been used on a few pieces of merchandising (see the JOTA shirts in the World Bureau shop) however I don't believe it's been accepted or approved yet as a replacement for the current logo.

                  Now my personal 2 penneth worth:
                  Rex, as you may remember I am a professional graphic designer, and I have to say when I heard about the plan to design an American BSA Radio Scouting logo I was quite excited - I had visions of something along the lines of their annual JOTA badges, which I think look great! Modern, colourful and appealing to the young people... everything the badge should be. American in design, yes, but then that's the market it's intended for.

                  Sadly, I have to say, when I saw the proposals I was very disappointed... they are the kind of thing I would expect to be handed by a non-designer client and told to make something of!  Somewhat dated, over simplistic and not representational of today's Radio Scouting. Not what I expected at all! 

                  I'm all for individual countries having their own version of a Radio Scouting logo - design in every country has to be different to accommodate their own market, and indeed the Icelandic Radio Scouting logo is a variation on the World JOTA logo but incorporating their Association's logo - and very well implemented too! But that doesn't detract from the fact we have a great World JOTA logo that unites Radio Scouting around the world... I have a version of a logo that I started to design with a view to proposing it as a UK specific JOTA logo, however I've not felt the logo is quite right yet, nor is there a need in the UK for our own logo at this point in time, but it was an interesting exercise for me.

                  I just think there needs to be more of an effort by the graphic designers of BSA!  :-)  I would love to see a BSA Radio Scouting logo along the lines of their annual JOTA badges.

                  73 and good Radio Scouting...
                  Frank, M0AEU

                • Norm Huber
                  Lot s of comments including What s wrong with the current badge? Question I have, is the world emblem as available from
                  Message 8 of 27 , Nov 23, 2011
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                    Lot's of comments including "What's wrong with the current badge?"
                    Question I have, is the world emblem as available from
                    http://www.worldscoutshops.com/acatalog/info_104308.html
                    approved for wear on the uniform? Sort of like the Overseas Arrowmen
                    Organization that has patches and flaps the are clearly indicated as
                    unapproved for wear on the US Scout uniform. I need to make a light
                    weight Capot to put all my patches on so that I can legally show the
                    things I am proud of in my Scouting career.
                    As far as pride, I end up with the Philmont badge on my uniform almost
                    exclusively unless I have one of the OA commemorative flap/pocket patch
                    combos on or am attending a specific event.
                    --
                    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
                    - Norm - N9ZKS - Central Illinois
                    - Motorcyclist, Bicyclist, Ham, Scouter
                    - '05 Goldwing - Yellow - Rex - 123,000 miles
                    - '87 Goldwing Interstate - Lagniappe Too - 66,000 miles
                    - LAISSEZ LES BON TEMPS ROULER!
                    - IBA 25533, MARC, WOTI, GWRRA, AMA, ARRL
                    -
                    http://www.findu.com/cgi-bin/find.cgi?call=n9zks-5,n9zks-9,n9zks-10&radar=***
                  • Jim
                    Thanks everyone for taking time to vote and comment. I ve now closed voting with 156 registering their vote and roughly a dozen comments. The vote was close
                    Message 9 of 27 , Nov 24, 2011
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                      Thanks everyone for taking time to vote and comment. I've now closed voting with 156 registering their vote and roughly a dozen comments. The vote was close but ended on the Globe and Lightning Bolt emblem, which is consistent with findings from the National Radio Scouting Committee and a poll of youth attending a Radio Scouting event.

                      Thanks again for your great participation in this poll.

                      73,

                      Jim, K5ND
                      National JOTA Organizer
                      K2BSA 2013 Jamboree Chairman


                      --- In ScoutRadio@yahoogroups.com, "Jim" <jbwilson@...> wrote:
                      >
                      > I've asked the graphic designers at BSA National Council to develop a Radio Scouting emblem to be used in the USA in place of the aged world radio scouting emblem. Please look over the four finalists and vote for your favorite at
                      >
                      > http://www.k2bsa.net/2011/10/radio-scouting-emblem/
                      >
                      > Thanks.
                      >
                      > Jim, K5ND
                      >
                    • Roger Woods
                      Jim, I find you dismissal of other remarks both incredible and arrogant. You refer to the world radio scouting symbol as the aged world radio scouting emblem
                      Message 10 of 27 , Nov 24, 2011
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                        Jim,

                         

                        I find you dismissal of other remarks both incredible and arrogant. You refer to the world radio scouting symbol as “the aged world radio scouting emblem” your words not mine.

                         

                        Whilst the BSA is quite within its rights to have its own emblem your dismissal of the world emblem is both disrespectful and lacks scouting spirit. It is not worthy of a national Scouting organisation official.

                         

                        I await your apology.

                         

                         

                        Roger Woods

                        Cub Scout Leader

                        G8XAN

                         

                         

                         

                         

                         

                        From: ScoutRadio@yahoogroups.com [mailto:ScoutRadio@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Jim
                        Sent: 24 November 2011 15:04
                        To: ScoutRadio@yahoogroups.com
                        Subject: [ScoutRadio] Re: Radio Scouting Emblem

                         

                         

                        Thanks everyone for taking time to vote and comment. I've now closed voting with 156 registering their vote and roughly a dozen comments. The vote was close but ended on the Globe and Lightning Bolt emblem, which is consistent with findings from the National Radio Scouting Committee and a poll of youth attending a Radio Scouting event.

                        Thanks again for your great participation in this poll.

                        73,

                        Jim, K5ND
                        National JOTA Organizer
                        K2BSA 2013 Jamboree Chairman

                        --- In ScoutRadio@yahoogroups.com, "Jim" <jbwilson@...> wrote:
                        >
                        > I've asked the graphic designers at BSA National Council to develop a Radio Scouting emblem to be used in the USA in place of the aged world radio scouting emblem. Please look over the four finalists and vote for your favorite at
                        >
                        > http://www.k2bsa.net/2011/10/radio-scouting-emblem/
                        >
                        > Thanks.
                        >
                        > Jim, K5ND
                        >

                      • J.Gordon Beattie, Jr., W2TTT
                        Now boys! Let s think about this.the world emblem is aged, but venerable.as such it means a lot to many and may have some dissonance to youth. As for the
                        Message 11 of 27 , Nov 24, 2011
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                          Now boys!

                           

                          Let’s think about this…the world emblem is aged, but venerable…as such it means a lot to many and may have some dissonance to youth. 

                           

                          As for the choices in the U. S. emblem poll, I would have preferred something snazzier.  At least there was some expressed youth preference for the emblem that won the poll, but I do wonder if that is what youth would produce given the opportunity? 

                           

                          One thing going for the poll winner is that it will work well when produced in multiple media formats. 

                           

                           

                          Yours in Scouting!
                          Thanks & 73,

                          Gordon Beattie, W2TTT

                          201.314.6964


                          From: ScoutRadio@yahoogroups.com [mailto: ScoutRadio@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of Roger Woods
                          Sent: Thursday, November 24, 2011 3:14 PM
                          To: ScoutRadio@yahoogroups.com
                          Subject: RE: [ScoutRadio] Re: Radio Scouting Emblem

                           

                           

                          Jim,

                           

                          I find you dismissal of other remarks both incredible and arrogant. You refer to the world radio scouting symbol as “the aged world radio scouting emblem” your words not mine.

                           

                          Whilst the BSA is quite within its rights to have its own emblem your dismissal of the world emblem is both disrespectful and lacks scouting spirit. It is not worthy of a national Scouting organisation official.

                           

                          I await your apology.

                           

                           

                          Roger Woods

                          Cub Scout Leader

                          G8XAN

                           

                           

                           

                           

                           

                          From: ScoutRadio@yahoogroups.com [mailto: ScoutRadio@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of Jim
                          Sent: 24 November 2011 15:04
                          To: ScoutRadio@yahoogroups.com
                          Subject: [ScoutRadio] Re: Radio Scouting Emblem

                           

                           

                          Thanks everyone for taking time to vote and comment. I've now closed voting with 156 registering their vote and roughly a dozen comments. The vote was close but ended on the Globe and Lightning Bolt emblem, which is consistent with findings from the National Radio Scouting Committee and a poll of youth attending a Radio Scouting event.

                          Thanks again for your great participation in this poll.

                          73,

                          Jim, K5ND
                          National JOTA Organizer
                          K2BSA 2013 Jamboree Chairman

                          --- In ScoutRadio@yahoogroups.com, "Jim" <jbwilson@...> wrote:

                          >
                          > I've asked the graphic designers at BSA National Council to develop a
                          Radio Scouting emblem to be used in the USA in place of the aged world radio scouting emblem. Please look over the four finalists and vote for your favorite at
                          >
                          > http://www.k2bsa.net/2011/10/radio-scouting-emblem/
                          >
                          > Thanks.
                          >
                          > Jim, K5ND
                          >

                        • Walter Underwood
                          It is too bad there wasn t at least a none of the above choice. I thought all of them were too busy. Not as cluttered as the new National Outdoor Badge
                          Message 12 of 27 , Nov 24, 2011
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                            It is too bad there wasn't at least a "none of the above" choice. I thought all of them were too busy. Not as cluttered as the new National Outdoor Badge (which my son wears proudly), but too noisy to be a great design  that we'll use for years.

                            Compare them to the new "non-vintage" JOTA/JOTI patch, with a wireframe globe, headphones, and scarf, but very simple:


                            For another example, the Netherlands 50th JOTA patch is good, with a realistic globe, a transmitting tower and purple background:


                            Long ago, I learned that it is OK to say that none of the choices are good enough and to try again. This is especially true with design work. Every time I've done that, I've been happy that I did. The key to great work is a big wastebasket. :-)

                            wunder
                            KTRU
                            Photography Editor, Rice Thresher 1976-1978

                            On Nov 24, 2011, at 7:04 AM, Jim wrote:

                             

                            Thanks everyone for taking time to vote and comment. I've now closed voting with 156 registering their vote and roughly a dozen comments. The vote was close but ended on the Globe and Lightning Bolt emblem, which is consistent with findings from the National Radio Scouting Committee and a poll of youth attending a Radio Scouting event.

                            Thanks again for your great participation in this poll.

                            73,

                            Jim, K5ND
                            National JOTA Organizer
                            K2BSA 2013 Jamboree Chairman

                            --- In ScoutRadio@yahoogroups.com, "Jim" <jbwilson@...> wrote:
                            >
                            > I've asked the graphic designers at BSA National Council to develop a Radio Scouting emblem to be used in the USA in place of the aged world radio scouting emblem. Please look over the four finalists and vote for your favorite at
                            >
                            > http://www.k2bsa.net/2011/10/radio-scouting-emblem/
                            >
                            > Thanks.
                            >
                            > Jim, K5ND
                            >


                          • Malcolm - G4CXT
                            As others have observed, this was a discussion about a US badge to be worn by US Scouts, and as such I felt I had no need to contribute to the interesting
                            Message 13 of 27 , Nov 25, 2011
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                              As others have observed, this was a discussion about a US badge to be worn by US Scouts, and as such I felt I had no need to contribute to the interesting debate that ensued.

                              However, I would pass comment on the phrase used below .....  while I recognise and respect the fact that BSA has
                              chosen not to admit girls to their ranks I feel it is wrong to refer to the "World Brotherhood".  Anybody who has participated in an international jamboree will quickly recognise the value of a Scout organisation open equally to both boys and girls and the diversity achieved without discriminating against 50% of the world's community.

                              Here in the UK we talk of the "world-wide family of Scouts" - a phrase I suggest is far more appropriate than brotherhood when referring to the population of Scouts outside the USA.

                              73
                              
                              Malcolm - G4CXT
                              

                              On 24/11/2011 02:02, Bill Stewart wrote:
                              I don't think that there is any intention to move away from the World Brotherhood.
                            • J.Gordon Beattie, Jr., W2TTT
                              Malcolm, Many of our Scouts come from families where there is no consistently positive male role model. In our Scout Troop, the boys learn to become empowered,
                              Message 14 of 27 , Nov 25, 2011
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                                Malcolm,

                                Many of our Scouts come from families where there is no consistently positive male role model.

                                 

                                In our Scout Troop, the boys learn to become empowered, thoughtful men of faith from those of us who are blessed with good marriages and those who are not, as we struggle together to provide essential developmental elements to their sons.  While most of our boys are of the Roman Catholic faith, we support the faith development of every Scout, even to the point of making sure that they follow up with the Religious Emblem programs of their faith.  We also do lots of traditional outdoor activities including a monthly camping trip that includes many fun things.  The Troop also has at least one service project each month and we are also pursue hi-tech activities including Amateur Radio (1/2 of our boys have the licenses.), Community Emergency Response Team members, and become Emergency Medical Technicians. 

                                 

                                In this process of these activities, they become a brotherhood and as such, it is reasonable to be a “brotherhood in Scouting” within the “Scouting family”.  Let’s not let the political correctness get in the way of what is rational and reasonable.

                                 

                                Yours in Scouting!
                                Thanks & 73,

                                Gordon Beattie, W2TTT

                                201.314.6964


                                From: ScoutRadio@yahoogroups.com [mailto: ScoutRadio@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of Malcolm - G4CXT
                                Sent: Friday, November 25, 2011 9:07 AM
                                To: ScoutRadio@yahoogroups.com
                                Subject: Re: [ScoutRadio] Radio Scouting Emblem

                                 

                                 

                                As others have observed, this was a discussion about a US badge to be worn by US Scouts, and as such I felt I had no need to contribute to the interesting debate that ensued.

                                However, I would pass comment on the phrase used below .....  while I recognise and respect the fact that BSA has chosen not to admit girls to their ranks I feel it is wrong to refer to the "World Brotherhood".  Anybody who has participated in an international jamboree will quickly recognise the value of a Scout organisation open equally to both boys and girls and the diversity achieved without discriminating against 50% of the world's community.

                                Here in the UK we talk of the "world-wide family of Scouts" - a phrase I suggest is far more appropriate than brotherhood when referring to the population of Scouts outside the USA .

                                73
                                  
                                Malcolm - G4CXT


                                On 24/11/2011 02:02, Bill Stewart wrote:

                                I don't think that there is any intention to move away from the World Brotherhood.

                              • Bill Stewart
                                Malcolm, You mention that we have chosen to be boys only. The BSA over the years has attempted to merge with the GSUSA with no luck. We chose not to reinvent
                                Message 15 of 27 , Nov 25, 2011
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                                  Malcolm,
                                  You mention that we have chosen to be boys only. The BSA over the years has attempted to merge with the GSUSA with no luck. We chose not to reinvent the wheel.
                                  It does look like we MAY be heading in that direction from hints made by several executives. Please note that this is only speculation.

                                  73,

                                  Bill, W2BSA  


                                  On 11/25/2011 7:36 AM, J.Gordon Beattie, Jr., W2TTT wrote:
                                   

                                  Malcolm,

                                  Many of our Scouts come from families where there is no consistently positive male role model.

                                   

                                  In our Scout Troop, the boys learn to become empowered, thoughtful men of faith from those of us who are blessed with good marriages and those who are not, as we struggle together to provide essential developmental elements to their sons.  While most of our boys are of the Roman Catholic faith, we support the faith development of every Scout, even to the point of making sure that they follow up with the Religious Emblem programs of their faith.  We also do lots of traditional outdoor activities including a monthly camping trip that includes many fun things.  The Troop also has at least one service project each month and we are also pursue hi-tech activities including Amateur Radio (1/2 of our boys have the licenses.), Community Emergency Response Team members, and become Emergency Medical Technicians. 

                                   

                                  In this process of these activities, they become a brotherhood and as such, it is reasonable to be a “brotherhood in Scouting” within the “Scouting family”.  Let’s not let the political correctness get in the way of what is rational and reasonable.

                                   

                                  Yours in Scouting!
                                  Thanks & 73,

                                  Gordon Beattie, W2TTT

                                  201.314.6964


                                  From: ScoutRadio@yahoogroups.com [mailto:ScoutRadio@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of Malcolm - G4CXT
                                  Sent: Friday, November 25, 2011 9:07 AM
                                  To: ScoutRadio@yahoogroups.com
                                  Subject: Re: [ScoutRadio] Radio Scouting Emblem

                                   

                                   

                                  As others have observed, this was a discussion about a US badge to be worn by US Scouts, and as such I felt I had no need to contribute to the interesting debate that ensued.

                                  However, I would pass comment on the phrase used below .....  while I recognise and respect the fact that BSA has chosen not to admit girls to their ranks I feel it is wrong to refer to the "World Brotherhood".  Anybody who has participated in an international jamboree will quickly recognise the value of a Scout organisation open equally to both boys and girls and the diversity achieved without discriminating against 50% of the world's community.

                                  Here in the UK we talk of the "world-wide family of Scouts" - a phrase I suggest is far more appropriate than brotherhood when referring to the population of Scouts outside the USA .

                                  73
                                    
                                  Malcolm - G4CXT


                                  On 24/11/2011 02:02, Bill Stewart wrote:

                                  I don't think that there is any intention to move away from the World Brotherhood.


                                • Stephen M. Shearer
                                  Don t forget that USA Venture Crews are M/F over 14 yo. In my council, the camp staff of one of our camps {not sure of the other camp} is 25% female and a
                                  Message 16 of 27 , Nov 25, 2011
                                  • 0 Attachment

                                    Don’t forget that USA Venture Crews are M/F over 14 yo.

                                    In my council, the camp staff of one of our camps {not sure of the other camp} is 25% female and a member of the Crew {to be registered}.

                                    The Crew is very active in the “off” season.

                                    SO, females ARE part of BSA…  Just, not eligible to be Eagle Scouts or in OA {as a youth}.  Venture Crews will be at the National Jamboree in 2013, too.

                                     

                                    73, Steve WB3LGC


                                    From: ScoutRadio@yahoogroups.com [mailto:ScoutRadio@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Bill Stewart
                                    Sent: Friday, November 25, 2011 11:51 AM
                                    To: ScoutRadio@yahoogroups.com
                                    Subject: Re: [ScoutRadio] Radio Scouting Emblem

                                     

                                     

                                    Malcolm,
                                    You mention that we have chosen to be boys only. The BSA over the years has attempted to merge with the GSUSA with no luck. We chose not to reinvent the wheel.
                                    It does look like we MAY be heading in that direction from hints made by several executives. Please note that this is only speculation.

                                    73,

                                    Bill, W2BSA  


                                    On 11/25/2011 7:36 AM, J.Gordon Beattie, Jr., W2TTT wrote:

                                     

                                    Malcolm,

                                    Many of our Scouts come from families where there is no consistently positive male role model.

                                     

                                    In our Scout Troop, the boys learn to become empowered, thoughtful men of faith from those of us who are blessed with good marriages and those who are not, as we struggle together to provide essential developmental elements to their sons.  While most of our boys are of the Roman Catholic faith, we support the faith development of every Scout, even to the point of making sure that they follow up with the Religious Emblem programs of their faith.  We also do lots of traditional outdoor activities including a monthly camping trip that includes many fun things.  The Troop also has at least one service project each month and we are also pursue hi-tech activities including Amateur Radio (1/2 of our boys have the licenses.), Community Emergency Response Team members, and become Emergency Medical Technicians. 

                                     

                                    In this process of these activities, they become a brotherhood and as such, it is reasonable to be a “brotherhood in Scouting” within the “Scouting family”.  Let’s not let the political correctness get in the way of what is rational and reasonable.

                                     

                                    Yours in Scouting!
                                    Thanks & 73,

                                    Gordon Beattie, W2TTT

                                    201.314.6964


                                    From: ScoutRadio@yahoogroups.com [mailto:ScoutRadio@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of Malcolm - G4CXT
                                    Sent: Friday, November 25, 2011 9:07 AM
                                    To: ScoutRadio@yahoogroups.com
                                    Subject: Re: [ScoutRadio] Radio Scouting Emblem

                                     

                                     

                                    As others have observed, this was a discussion about a US badge to be worn by US Scouts, and as such I felt I had no need to contribute to the interesting debate that ensued.

                                    However, I would pass comment on the phrase used below .....  while I recognise and respect the fact that BSA has chosen not to admit girls to their ranks I feel it is wrong to refer to the "World Brotherhood".  Anybody who has participated in an international jamboree will quickly recognise the value of a Scout organisation open equally to both boys and girls and the diversity achieved without discriminating against 50% of the world's community.

                                    Here in the UK we talk of the "world-wide family of Scouts" - a phrase I suggest is far more appropriate than brotherhood when referring to the population of Scouts outside the USA .

                                    73
                                      
                                    Malcolm - G4CXT


                                    On 24/11/2011 02:02, Bill Stewart wrote:

                                    I don't think that there is any intention to move away from the World Brotherhood.

                                     

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                                    No virus found in this message.
                                    Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
                                    Version: 2012.0.1873 / Virus Database: 2101/4638 - Release Date: 11/25/11

                                  • dr@kc.rr.com
                                    Gentlemen: There are a number of Scouting Hams, besides myself that subscribe to this list to discuss and stay abreast of ScoutRadio matters. This conversation
                                    Message 17 of 27 , Nov 25, 2011
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                                      Gentlemen:

                                      There are a number of Scouting Hams, besides myself that subscribe to this list to discuss and stay abreast of ScoutRadio matters. This conversation has digressed well past that point. Before we find ourselves exchanging cookie recipes, perhaps we should refocus on Scouts and radio related issues. I would welcome a flood of emails in my inbox that relate to involving scouts in ham radio, but you guys are starting to wear out my delete button.

                                      Mr. Wilson was well intentioned in his original email, kudos to him for all of his efforts in promoting amateur radio to the Scouting community. I'm sure he appreciated your initial responses to his proposal, but now that train has run itself off the tracks. Lets spend the remainder of the weekend getting some kids on the working side of a microphone, that's what this group is all about.

                                      73 and Yours in Scouting,

                                      Doug Roberts
                                      NEØA
                                      Assistant Council Commissioner - Urban Scouting
                                      Heart of America Council

                                      ---- "Stephen M. Shearer" <wb3lgc@...> wrote:
                                      > Don't forget that USA Venture Crews are M/F over 14 yo.
                                      >
                                      > In my council, the camp staff of one of our camps {not sure of the other
                                      > camp} is 25% female and a member of the Crew {to be registered}.
                                      >
                                      > The Crew is very active in the "off" season.
                                      >
                                      > SO, females ARE part of BSA. Just, not eligible to be Eagle Scouts or in OA
                                      > {as a youth}. Venture Crews will be at the National Jamboree in 2013, too.
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      > 73, Steve WB3LGC
                                      >
                                      > _____
                                      >
                                      > From: ScoutRadio@yahoogroups.com [mailto:ScoutRadio@yahoogroups.com] On
                                      > Behalf Of Bill Stewart
                                      > Sent: Friday, November 25, 2011 11:51 AM
                                      > To: ScoutRadio@yahoogroups.com
                                      > Subject: Re: [ScoutRadio] Radio Scouting Emblem
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      > Malcolm,
                                      > You mention that we have chosen to be boys only. The BSA over the years has
                                      > attempted to merge with the GSUSA with no luck. We chose not to reinvent the
                                      > wheel.
                                      > It does look like we MAY be heading in that direction from hints made by
                                      > several executives. Please note that this is only speculation.
                                      >
                                      > 73,
                                      >
                                      > Bill, W2BSA
                                      >
                                      >
                                      > On 11/25/2011 7:36 AM, J.Gordon Beattie, Jr., W2TTT wrote:
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      > Malcolm,
                                      >
                                      > Many of our Scouts come from families where there is no consistently
                                      > positive male role model.
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      > In our Scout Troop, the boys learn to become empowered, thoughtful men of
                                      > faith from those of us who are blessed with good marriages and those who are
                                      > not, as we struggle together to provide essential developmental elements to
                                      > their sons. While most of our boys are of the Roman Catholic faith, we
                                      > support the faith development of every Scout, even to the point of making
                                      > sure that they follow up with the Religious Emblem programs of their faith.
                                      > We also do lots of traditional outdoor activities including a monthly
                                      > camping trip that includes many fun things. The Troop also has at least one
                                      > service project each month and we are also pursue hi-tech activities
                                      > including Amateur Radio (1/2 of our boys have the licenses.), Community
                                      > Emergency Response Team members, and become Emergency Medical Technicians.
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      > In this process of these activities, they become a brotherhood and as such,
                                      > it is reasonable to be a "brotherhood in Scouting" within the "Scouting
                                      > family". Let's not let the political correctness get in the way of what is
                                      > rational and reasonable.
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      > Yours in Scouting!
                                      > Thanks & 73,
                                      >
                                      > Gordon Beattie, W2TTT
                                      >
                                      > 201.314.6964
                                      >
                                      >
                                      > _____
                                      >
                                      >
                                      > From: <mailto:ScoutRadio@yahoogroups.com> ScoutRadio@yahoogroups.com
                                      > [mailto:ScoutRadio@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Malcolm - G4CXT
                                      > Sent: Friday, November 25, 2011 9:07 AM
                                      > To: ScoutRadio@yahoogroups.com
                                      > Subject: Re: [ScoutRadio] Radio Scouting Emblem
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      > As others have observed, this was a discussion about a US badge to be worn
                                      > by US Scouts, and as such I felt I had no need to contribute to the
                                      > interesting debate that ensued.
                                      >
                                      > However, I would pass comment on the phrase used below ..... while I
                                      > recognise and respect the fact that BSA has chosen not to admit girls to
                                      > their ranks I feel it is wrong to refer to the "World Brotherhood". Anybody
                                      > who has participated in an international jamboree will quickly recognise the
                                      > value of a Scout organisation open equally to both boys and girls and the
                                      > diversity achieved without discriminating against 50% of the world's
                                      > community.
                                      >
                                      > Here in the UK we talk of the "world-wide family of Scouts" - a phrase I
                                      > suggest is far more appropriate than brotherhood when referring to the
                                      > population of Scouts outside the USA.
                                      >
                                      > 73
                                      >
                                      > Malcolm - G4CXT
                                      >
                                      >
                                      > On 24/11/2011 02:02, Bill Stewart wrote:
                                      >
                                      > I don't think that there is any intention to move away from the World
                                      > Brotherhood.
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      > _____
                                      >
                                      > size=1 width="100%" noshade color=gray align=center>
                                      >
                                      > No virus found in this message.
                                      > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
                                      > Version: 2012.0.1873 / Virus Database: 2101/4638 - Release Date: 11/25/11
                                      >
                                    • J.Gordon Beattie, Jr., W2TTT
                                      Hey Folks, Co-ed Crews are fine, especially when led by 18+ youth, male & female. Before that, I see a very mixed picture because the girls are so much more
                                      Message 18 of 27 , Nov 25, 2011
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                                        Hey Folks,

                                         

                                        Co-ed Crews are fine, especially when led by 18+ youth, male & female. 

                                        Before that, I see a very mixed picture because the girls are so much more organized and capable.  A Co-ed Troop or Crew would essentially be female-led by default.  Boys need time to figure themselves out before having to compete and collaborate with girls.  I don’t have as much experience with raising girls (I’m the father of three sons!), but I sense that they could use the space to develop a bit without the distraction of the boys as well.  We really don’t need the jockeying for attention between boys and girls to complicate everyday Troop operations.    

                                         

                                        I think for chaperoning and leadership development purposes, that it may be better to have single-sex Troops and Crews that collaborate on things of common interest.  That way the responsibility to organize, lead and chaperone become unit functions and the opportunity to grow is maximized for all when operating apart or together.   

                                         

                                        My oldest son founded a co-ed Venture Crew that worked well for several years, but he was a Junior and Senior in high school at that time.  The only reason that he led it at all, was that there were a group of young ladies who wanted to do what their brothers were doing, but they didn’t know how.  After two years, none of the younger youth wanted to lead despite their training to do so.  This brings up the question of whether the parents of girls will be interested in delivering the grittier types of “Boy Scout” experiences to their daughters.  Frankly, after twenty years as a Cub Scout & Boy Scout unit leader, I am beginning to think that they don’t want to “get dirty” delivering the grittier experiences for their sons either!  If we keep de-emphasizing and sanitizing the outdoor experiences of our Scouting activities, I firmly believe that something magical will be lost for both our sons and our daughters. 

                                         

                                        To me, that is the bigger question and challenge confronting American Scouting and the BSA in particular.  I think the BSA may be on a good track to work this issue to the betterment of our youth.  The Summit , the National Outdoor Awards and the Venturing program may be ways for us to get to a better place, but only our efforts and time will tell.  The bottom line is whether your child is male or female, make sure that they get the experiences that will help them grow using whatever program format you can use.

                                         

                                        Yours in Scouting!
                                        Thanks & 73,

                                        Gordon Beattie, W2TTT

                                        201.314.6964


                                        From: ScoutRadio@yahoogroups.com [mailto: ScoutRadio@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of Stephen M. Shearer
                                        Sent: Friday, November 25, 2011 6:08 PM
                                        To: ScoutRadio@yahoogroups.com
                                        Subject: RE: [ScoutRadio] Radio Scouting Emblem

                                         

                                         

                                        Don’t forget that USA Venture Crews are M/F over 14 yo.

                                        In my council, the camp staff of one of our camps {not sure of the other camp} is 25% female and a member of the Crew {to be registered}.

                                        The Crew is very active in the “off” season.

                                        SO, females ARE part of BSA…  Just, not eligible to be Eagle Scouts or in OA {as a youth}.  Venture Crews will be at the National Jamboree in 2013, too.

                                         

                                        73, Steve WB3LGC


                                        From: ScoutRadio@yahoogroups.com [mailto: ScoutRadio@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of Bill Stewart
                                        Sent: Friday, November 25, 2011 11:51 AM
                                        To: ScoutRadio@yahoogroups.com
                                        Subject: Re: [ScoutRadio] Radio Scouting Emblem

                                         

                                         

                                        Malcolm,
                                        You mention that we have chosen to be boys only. The BSA over the years has attempted to merge with the GSUSA with no luck. We chose not to reinvent the wheel.
                                        It does look like we MAY be heading in that direction from hints made by several executives. Please note that this is only speculation.

                                        73,

                                        Bill, W2BSA  


                                        On 11/25/2011 7:36 AM, J.Gordon Beattie, Jr., W2TTT wrote:

                                         

                                        Malcolm,

                                        Many of our Scouts come from families where there is no consistently positive male role model.

                                         

                                        In our Scout Troop, the boys learn to become empowered, thoughtful men of faith from those of us who are blessed with good marriages and those who are not, as we struggle together to provide essential developmental elements to their sons.  While most of our boys are of the Roman Catholic faith, we support the faith development of every Scout, even to the point of making sure that they follow up with the Religious Emblem programs of their faith.  We also do lots of traditional outdoor activities including a monthly camping trip that includes many fun things.  The Troop also has at least one service project each month and we are also pursue hi-tech activities including Amateur Radio (1/2 of our boys have the licenses.), Community Emergency Response Team members, and become Emergency Medical Technicians. 

                                         

                                        In this process of these activities, they become a brotherhood and as such, it is reasonable to be a “brotherhood in Scouting” within the “Scouting family”.  Let’s not let the political correctness get in the way of what is rational and reasonable.

                                         

                                        Yours in Scouting!
                                        Thanks & 73,

                                        Gordon Beattie, W2TTT

                                        201.314.6964


                                        From: ScoutRadio@yahoogroups.com [mailto:ScoutRadio@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of Malcolm - G4CXT
                                        Sent: Friday, November 25, 2011 9:07 AM
                                        To: ScoutRadio@yahoogroups.com
                                        Subject: Re: [ScoutRadio] Radio Scouting Emblem

                                         

                                         

                                        As others have observed, this was a discussion about a US badge to be worn by US Scouts, and as such I felt I had no need to contribute to the interesting debate that ensued.

                                        However, I would pass comment on the phrase used below .....  while I recognise and respect the fact that BSA has chosen not to admit girls to their ranks I feel it is wrong to refer to the "World Brotherhood".  Anybody who has participated in an international jamboree will quickly recognise the value of a Scout organisation open equally to both boys and girls and the diversity achieved without discriminating against 50% of the world's community.

                                        Here in the UK we talk of the "world-wide family of Scouts" - a phrase I suggest is far more appropriate than brotherhood when referring to the population of Scouts outside the USA .

                                        73
                                          
                                        Malcolm - G4CXT


                                        On 24/11/2011 02:02, Bill Stewart wrote:

                                        I don't think that there is any intention to move away from the World Brotherhood.

                                         

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                                        No virus found in this message.
                                        Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
                                        Version: 2012.0.1873 / Virus Database: 2101/4638 - Release Date: 11/25/11

                                      • wb2boo
                                        I totally agree with Doug, and I think this group should offer its apologies to Jim. He s had his design team look at things from a modern viewpoint and come
                                        Message 19 of 27 , Nov 26, 2011
                                        • 0 Attachment
                                          I totally agree with Doug, and I think this group should offer its apologies to Jim. He's had his design team look at things from a modern viewpoint and come up with a variety of ideas that he asked us to consider.

                                          Unlike folks sharpshooting from the sidelines, since the February MOU between ARRL and BSA, Jim has devoted himself and his graphics and communications staff at BSA HQ to actively promoting Amateur Radio to millions of Scouts this year. It's fair to say that his efforts have reached more Scouts than the combined efforts of the members of this Yahoo Group. He's also a communications (as in advertising and public relations) professional with decades of experience in that field, and we "amateurs" in that field of expertise might want to listen to his ideas.

                                          Jim has created a BSA National Radio Scouting Committee, staffing it radio Scouters from across the country, actively updated the BSA webpages for JOTA, promoted JOTA in Boy Life and Scouting magazines, and on Facebook and Twitter. He now been designated the job of organizing the K2BSA operation both at the National Jamboree and for other uses. You can see some of that work at http://www.k2bsa.net/ and http://www.scouting.org/JOTA.aspx

                                          If we want the kids of today to get involved in Amateur Radio we need to understand what graphics appeal to them, not what a bunch of old timers like. Jim and his team are attempting to do that and we should encourage it.

                                          So thanks, Jim for your efforts and please share more ideas with us here in the future.

                                          73

                                          Gary Wilson, K2GW
                                          Unit Commissioner
                                          Mercer Area District, Central NJ Council, BSA


                                          --- In ScoutRadio@yahoogroups.com, <dr@...> wrote:
                                          >
                                          > Gentlemen:> There are a number of Scouting Hams, besides myself that subscribe to this list to discuss and stay abreast of ScoutRadio matters. This conversation has digressed well past that point. Before we find ourselves exchanging cookie recipes, perhaps we should refocus on Scouts and radio related issues. I would welcome a flood of emails in my inbox that relate to involving scouts in ham radio, but you guys are starting to wear out my delete button.
                                          >
                                          > Mr. Wilson was well intentioned in his original email, kudos to him for all of his efforts in promoting amateur radio to the Scouting community. I'm sure he appreciated your initial responses to his proposal, but now that train has run itself off the tracks. Lets spend the remainder of the weekend getting some kids on the working side of a microphone, that's what this group is all about.
                                          >
                                          > 73 and Yours in Scouting,
                                          >
                                          > Doug Roberts
                                          > NEØA
                                          > Assistant Council Commissioner - Urban Scouting
                                          > Heart of America Council
                                        • qsl7thp
                                          Amen. The new symbol was not my first choice but I can live with it and it will grow on me. Now let s get to work on getting the scouts on the air, which
                                          Message 20 of 27 , Nov 27, 2011
                                          • 0 Attachment
                                            Amen.

                                            The new symbol was not my first choice but I can live with it and it will grow on me.

                                            Now let's get to work on getting the scouts on the air, which should be job #1 no matter what the emblem looks like.

                                            I think the work that Jim and the staffers do is under-appreciated. I know from the little I do, it takes a lot of effort and also putting other stuff on the back burner to accomplish anything.

                                            My hat is off, Jim, to you and the other staffers. Keep up the good work!(Even if at times it does not look as if all appreciate it.)

                                            (As to Mr. Woods asking for apologies, that sort of offends me.)

                                            tnx es 73,

                                            Russ N7QR
                                            Troop 592 Sunset Trail District
                                            Columbia Pacific Council

                                            --- In ScoutRadio@yahoogroups.com, "wb2boo" <k2gw@...> wrote:
                                            >
                                            > I totally agree with Doug, and I think this group should offer its apologies to Jim. He's had his design team look at things from a modern viewpoint and come up with a variety of ideas that he asked us to consider.
                                            >
                                            > Unlike folks sharpshooting from the sidelines, since the February MOU between ARRL and BSA, Jim has devoted himself and his graphics and communications staff at BSA HQ to actively promoting Amateur Radio to millions of Scouts this year. It's fair to say that his efforts have reached more Scouts than the combined efforts of the members of this Yahoo Group. He's also a communications (as in advertising and public relations) professional with decades of experience in that field, and we "amateurs" in that field of expertise might want to listen to his ideas.
                                            >
                                            > Jim has created a BSA National Radio Scouting Committee, staffing it radio Scouters from across the country, actively updated the BSA webpages for JOTA, promoted JOTA in Boy Life and Scouting magazines, and on Facebook and Twitter. He now been designated the job of organizing the K2BSA operation both at the National Jamboree and for other uses. You can see some of that work at http://www.k2bsa.net/ and http://www.scouting.org/JOTA.aspx
                                            >
                                            > If we want the kids of today to get involved in Amateur Radio we need to understand what graphics appeal to them, not what a bunch of old timers like. Jim and his team are attempting to do that and we should encourage it.
                                            >
                                            > So thanks, Jim for your efforts and please share more ideas with us here in the future.
                                            >
                                            > 73
                                            >
                                            > Gary Wilson, K2GW
                                            > Unit Commissioner
                                            > Mercer Area District, Central NJ Council, BSA
                                            >
                                            >
                                            > --- In ScoutRadio@yahoogroups.com, <dr@> wrote:
                                            > >
                                            > > Gentlemen:> There are a number of Scouting Hams, besides myself that subscribe to this list to discuss and stay abreast of ScoutRadio matters. This conversation has digressed well past that point. Before we find ourselves exchanging cookie recipes, perhaps we should refocus on Scouts and radio related issues. I would welcome a flood of emails in my inbox that relate to involving scouts in ham radio, but you guys are starting to wear out my delete button.
                                            > >
                                            > > Mr. Wilson was well intentioned in his original email, kudos to him for all of his efforts in promoting amateur radio to the Scouting community. I'm sure he appreciated your initial responses to his proposal, but now that train has run itself off the tracks. Lets spend the remainder of the weekend getting some kids on the working side of a microphone, that's what this group is all about.
                                            > >
                                            > > 73 and Yours in Scouting,
                                            > >
                                            > > Doug Roberts
                                            > > NEØA
                                            > > Assistant Council Commissioner - Urban Scouting
                                            > > Heart of America Council
                                            >
                                          • Dale Lamm
                                            [snip] However, I would pass comment on the phrase used below ..... while I recognise and respect the fact that BSA has chosen not to admit girls to their
                                            Message 21 of 27 , Nov 27, 2011
                                            • 0 Attachment
                                              [snip]

                                              However, I would pass comment on the phrase used below ..... while I
                                              recognise and respect the fact that BSA has chosen not to admit girls to
                                              their ranks I feel it is wrong to refer to the "World Brotherhood". Anybody
                                              who has participated in an international jamboree will quickly recognise the
                                              value of a Scout organisation open equally to both boys and girls and the
                                              diversity achieved without discriminating against 50% of the world's
                                              community.

                                              [end]

                                              Venturing is an official BSA program that admits both sexes, although there
                                              is an age limitation. Generally, Venturers should be age 14+ and may remain
                                              registered as youth till the age of 21 is reached. One of our Crew members
                                              took delight in showing off her BSA membership card.

                                              See www.scouting.org/scoutsource/Venturing.aspx

                                              Also, females are admitted as adult leaders in USA Scouting. I am aware of a
                                              Troop in my state that had a female Scoutmaster for a few years. Some people
                                              bemoaned the fact, but she stepped up only because none of the males in the
                                              committee would do so.

                                              Agree that using the noun "Brotherhood" is non-inclusive to half the
                                              population, unless you are talking about a 100% male organization.

                                              Back to the topic... How soon till we can begin using the new emblem in
                                              publicity, posters, handouts and other signage?

                                              Dale Lamm NX8J, KT8BSA
                                              Crew Advisor, VC-73
                                            • Bill - W2BSA
                                              I just love how people beat up on others for using the wrong word. But, it seems to be typical of this and many other email groups I m in which I m a member.
                                              Message 22 of 27 , Nov 28, 2011
                                              • 0 Attachment
                                                I just love how people beat up on others for using the wrong word. But, it seems to be typical of this and many other
                                                email groups I'm in which I'm a member. And, yes since it was my comment that said World brotherhood, I feel I have a right to complain.
                                                It accomplishes nothing to beat up on people for something that stupid and doesn't accomplish the aims of this or many other organizations.
                                                So I used the wrong word, big deal.

                                                Bill Stewart, W2BSA, Venturing Crew 80, W3BSA

                                                On 11/28/2011 12:23 AM, Dale Lamm wrote:
                                                 

                                                [snip]

                                                However, I would pass comment on the phrase used below ..... while I
                                                recognise and respect the fact that BSA has chosen not to admit girls to
                                                their ranks I feel it is wrong to refer to the "World Brotherhood". Anybody
                                                who has participated in an international jamboree will quickly recognise the
                                                value of a Scout organisation open equally to both boys and girls and the
                                                diversity achieved without discriminating against 50% of the world's
                                                community.

                                                [end]

                                                Venturing is an official BSA program that admits both sexes, although there
                                                is an age limitation. Generally, Venturers should be age 14+ and may remain
                                                registered as youth till the age of 21 is reached. One of our Crew members
                                                took delight in showing off her BSA membership card.

                                                See www.scouting.org/scoutsource/Venturing.aspx

                                                Also, females are admitted as adult leaders in USA Scouting. I am aware of a
                                                Troop in my state that had a female Scoutmaster for a few years. Some people
                                                bemoaned the fact, but she stepped up only because none of the males in the
                                                committee would do so.

                                                Agree that using the noun "Brotherhood" is non-inclusive to half the
                                                population, unless you are talking about a 100% male organization.

                                                Back to the topic... How soon till we can begin using the new emblem in
                                                publicity, posters, handouts and other signage?

                                                Dale Lamm NX8J, KT8BSA
                                                Crew Advisor, VC-73


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