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Re: [ScoutRadio] Award levels?

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  • Walter Underwood
    But no one starts with Eagle. Only 2% achieve that. Everyone does Scout (by definition) and probably 98% make Tenderfoot. So lets have the Tenderfoot level be
    Message 1 of 13 , May 3, 2011
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      But no one starts with Eagle. Only 2% achieve that. Everyone does Scout (by definition) and probably 98% make Tenderfoot.

      So lets have the Tenderfoot level be achievable by 98% of Scouts.

      Where I live (Palo Alto, RFI Capitol of the world), with my equipment (IC-756 and wire antenna) , the Scout level would take years of work. I wouldn't even mention that to a boy because it would be so hard to achieve.

      Saturday night was my son's 100th night of Scout camping!

      wunder

      On May 1, 2011, at 6:33 PM, J.Gordon Beattie, Jr., W2TTT wrote:

       

      I respectfully disagree...this multi-level award system is achievable by a Scout.  

       

      In fact it will be just as attainable as some of the other Scout awards starting with becoming an Eagle Scout.  Even more rare, but attainable, are the Hornaday Award and the National Camping Awards at the 100 night, 250 night and finally the 500 night levels!  Most Boy Scout Troops do not have anyone with these awards.  In fact most Troops do not have a single Scout or adult with the Hiking Merit Badge, because of the requirement for a 20 mile hike in addition to the five 10 mile hikes.  Our Troop does a least one 20 miler each year as a Good Friday Church hike.  Most of our Scouts come every year, even if their overall participation has been poor.   

       

      Our Troop is active, but economically challenged.  Despite that, we have several active Scouts who have not served on camp staffs with 100+ nights of Scout camping and several adults (some who started as Scouts in the 1990's) who have 250 and 500+ nights of camping.  Some have never served on a camp staff and have 500+ nights including this writer! 

       

      Additionally, over a dozen Scouts have Amateur Radio licenses and if this was available at camp in the summer or on weekends, they would jump at the chance!  Those who have earned their licenses have a broad range of academic capabilities.  Most are not the “class genius”, but pretty regular guys including several with special needs!  

       

      Area unit and district leaders are amazed that these activities are normal and routine in our Troop, but they come from a consistent commitment to high standards, extraordinary availability and the notion of making it fun and exciting as it is supported by both the youth and adult leadership. 

       

      Finally, some remote camps could be put on the air remotely via an Internet connection over a landline, cellular data network or an Amateur Radio auxiliary link.   Don’t think in terms of the impossibility when you want to get a camp on the air, but consider how you might make it happen!  Be flexible in your thinking and audacious in your aspirations and in problem-solving when working to get camps on the air!

       

      Thanks & Vy 73,

      Gordon Beattie, W2TTT

      Scoutmaster, Boy Scout Troop 139

      Advisor, Venture Crew 7373

      Bergenfield , NJ

      201.314.6964

      W2TTT@...

       

      -----Original Message-----
      From: ScoutRadio@yahoogroups.com [mailto:ScoutRadio@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of Walter Underwood
      Sent: Sunday, May 01, 2011 8:21 PM
      To: ScoutRadio@yahoogroups.com
      Subject: Re: [ScoutRadio] Award levels?

       

      I don't see how the general ham population would be interested in this. These awards are only achievable for professional certificate chasers.

       

      Even with more activity, camp stations aren't operated like DXpeditions, they might make tens of contacts, not thousands. Our Sierra camps will never be on the air in the winter because they are snowed in. Those camps are a five hour drive from our council, so nobody is popping in on a Saturday to activate the camp.

       

      The BSA defines advancement like this: "Boy Scouting provides a series of surmountable obstacles and steps in overcoming them through the advancement method." These do not seem to be "surmountable obstacles" and seem counter to the spirit of Scouting.

       

      I would expect something more achievable, like WAS. How about working one camp from each call sign region as the Tenderfoot level?

       

      wunder

       

      On May 1, 2011, at 1:03 PM, Mike Crownover wrote:

       

      > Walter,

      >

      > The purpose of what you see on the website right now is to get the general ham population interested in talking to camps. The idea of this is also getting more camps on the air, the idea is to the change the activity level. So I agree the numbers seem almost impossible at todays activity level. However the idea is to increase activity level. There will be awards for hams, camps and scouts. I will get this information up soon but the scout awards are much easier.

      >

      > So, yes for the ham population it is a challenge. Our hope it that it will encourage more activity from more camps. Not just a few.

      >

      > Mike

      >

      >

      > On Sun, May 1, 2011 at 11:13 AM, Walter Underwood <wunder@...> wrote:

      > The award levels seem really tough, considering how rarely camps are on the air. Scoring 10 might be a real achievement here on the west coast.

      >

      >

      > Are these intended to get youth interested or are they for experienced, well-equipped DXers?

      >

      > I'm pretty sure that none of our three council camps have ever been on the air on HF. The only camp I've seen operating was Worth Ranch, while I was there in 2008, but they only run three weeks of camp.

      >

      > Finally, what about non-US camps? I'd expect some sort of credit for working GB2GP, if I ever manage it.

      >

      > Info on radio Scouting in the UK : http://www.radio-scouting.org.uk/

      >

      > wunder

      > --

      > Walter Underwood

      > Venture ASM, Troop 14, Palo Alto

      > K6WRU

      >

      >

      >

       

       

       

       

       

       

      ------------------------------------

       

      Check out the UK Radio-Scouting page here at Yahoo!Groups. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/radio-scouting-uk

       

      Now that you've got new licensees in your unit, why not have them subscibe to http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ScoutRadioYouth

       

      Visit "Operation On Target BSA" Mountain Top Signaling:

      http://www.ontargetbsa.org/

       

      Great list of Scouting/Amateur Radio web sites:

      http://www.k1dwu.net/ham-links/clubs.-.scouting.phtml

       

      SCOUTING and AMATEUR RADIO - FUN FOR ALL AGESYahoo! Groups Links

       

      <*> To visit your group on the web, go to:

          http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ScoutRadio/

       

      <*> Your email settings:

          Individual Email | Traditional

       

      <*> To change settings online go to:

          http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ScoutRadio/join

          (Yahoo! ID required)

       

      <*> To change settings via email:

          ScoutRadio-digest@yahoogroups.com

          ScoutRadio-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com

       

      <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:

          ScoutRadio-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

       

      <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:

          http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

       

       

      __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus signature database 6086 (20110501) __________

       

      The message was checked by ESET Smart Security.

       

      http://www.eset.com

       



      __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus signature database 6086 (20110501) __________

      The message was checked by ESET Smart Security.

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    • J.Gordon Beattie, Jr., W2TTT
      Walter, Levels are fine with me.I just don t think that we need to remove high-end goals as well. BTW: These days, it seems that about 4% make Eagle. Don t
      Message 2 of 13 , May 3, 2011
      • 0 Attachment

        Walter,

        Levels are fine with me…I just don’t think that we need to remove high-end goals as well.  

        BTW:  These days, it seems that about 4% make Eagle.  Don’t panic over that and start worrying about reduced standards and the like, because from what I can see, the issue is that many (not all) boys who gravitate to Scouting in a very active mode, don’t have Varsity sports, or other activities at that level of intensity to compete for their time.  

        Their focus is commendable and something worth noting given how the values of Scouting can be at odds with some of the less desirable current social “norms”.  

        Congratulations to your son on his 100 nights!  Our youngest did a lot of camping as a Cub Scout with the Pack and also with the Troop when his older brothers were out there, so his was as a Cub Scout!  It was very odd having him presented with the 100 Night Award at a Pack Meeting!  Oddly enough, there were a couple of his Webelos colleagues who we right behind him!   It has been an interesting group and now they are 15 and thinking about Eagle projects themselves!

         

        Yours in Scouting!
        Thanks & 73,

        Gordon Beattie, W2TTT

        201.314.6964


        From: ScoutRadio@yahoogroups.com [mailto: ScoutRadio@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of Walter Underwood
        Sent: Wednesday, May 04, 2011 1:30 AM
        To: ScoutRadio@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: Re: [ScoutRadio] Award levels?

         

         

        But no one starts with Eagle. Only 2% achieve that. Everyone does Scout (by definition) and probably 98% make Tenderfoot.

         

        So lets have the Tenderfoot level be achievable by 98% of Scouts.

         

        Where I live ( Palo Alto , RFI Capitol of the world), with my equipment (IC-756 and wire antenna) , the Scout level would take years of work. I wouldn't even mention that to a boy because it would be so hard to achieve.

         

        Saturday night was my son's 100th night of Scout camping!

         

        wunder

         

        On May 1, 2011, at 6:33 PM, J.Gordon Beattie, Jr., W2TTT wrote:



         

         

        I respectfully disagree...this multi-level award system is achievable by a Scout.  

         

        In fact it will be just as attainable as some of the other Scout awards starting with becoming an Eagle Scout.  Even more rare, but attainable, are the Hornaday Award and the National Camping Awards at the 100 night, 250 night and finally the 500 night levels!  Most Boy Scout Troops do not have anyone with these awards.  In fact most Troops do not have a single Scout or adult with the Hiking Merit Badge, because of the requirement for a 20 mile hike in addition to the five 10 mile hikes.  Our Troop does a least one 20 miler each year as a Good Friday Church hike.  Most of our Scouts come every year, even if their overall participation has been poor.   

         

        Our Troop is active, but economically challenged.  Despite that, we have several active Scouts who have not served on camp staffs with 100+ nights of Scout camping and several adults (some who started as Scouts in the 1990's) who have 250 and 500+ nights of camping.  Some have never served on a camp staff and have 500+ nights including this writer! 

         

        Additionally, over a dozen Scouts have Amateur Radio licenses and if this was available at camp in the summer or on weekends, they would jump at the chance!  Those who have earned their licenses have a broad range of academic capabilities.  Most are not the “class genius”, but pretty regular guys including several with special needs!  

         

        Area unit and district leaders are amazed that these activities are normal and routine in our Troop, but they come from a consistent commitment to high standards, extraordinary availability and the notion of making it fun and exciting as it is supported by both the youth and adult leadership. 

         

        Finally, some remote camps could be put on the air remotely via an Internet connection over a landline, cellular data network or an Amateur Radio auxiliary link.   Don’t think in terms of the impossibility when you want to get a camp on the air, but consider how you might make it happen!  Be flexible in your thinking and audacious in your aspirations and in problem-solving when working to get camps on the air!

         

        Thanks & Vy 73,

        Gordon Beattie, W2TTT

        Scoutmaster, Boy Scout Troop 139

        Advisor, Venture Crew 7373

        Bergenfield , NJ

        201.314.6964

        W2TTT@...

         

        -----Original Message-----
        From: ScoutRadio@yahoogroups.com [mailto:ScoutRadio@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of Walter Underwood
        Sent: Sunday, May 01, 2011 8:21 PM
        To: ScoutRadio@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: Re: [ScoutRadio] Award levels?

         

        I don't see how the general ham population would be interested in this. These awards are only achievable for professional certificate chasers.

         

        Even with more activity, camp stations aren't operated like DXpeditions, they might make tens of contacts, not thousands. Our Sierra camps will never be on the air in the winter because they are snowed in. Those camps are a five hour drive from our council, so nobody is popping in on a Saturday to activate the camp.

         

        The BSA defines advancement like this: "Boy Scouting provides a series of surmountable obstacles and steps in overcoming them through the advancement method." These do not seem to be "surmountable obstacles" and seem counter to the spirit of Scouting.

         

        I would expect something more achievable, like WAS. How about working one camp from each call sign region as the Tenderfoot level?

         

        wunder

         

        On May 1, 2011, at 1:03 PM, Mike Crownover wrote:

         

        > Walter,

        >

        > The purpose of what you see on the website right now is to get the general ham population interested in talking to camps. The idea of this is also getting more camps on the air, the idea is to the change the activity level. So I agree the numbers seem almost impossible at todays activity level. However the idea is to increase activity level. There will be awards for hams, camps and scouts. I will get this information up soon but the scout awards are much easier.

        >

        > So, yes for the ham population it is a challenge. Our hope it that it will encourage more activity from more camps. Not just a few.

        >

        > Mike

        >

        >

        > On Sun, May 1, 2011 at 11:13 AM, Walter Underwood <wunder@...> wrote:

        > The award levels seem really tough, considering how rarely camps are on the air. Scoring 10 might be a real achievement here on the west coast.

        >

        >

        > Are these intended to get youth interested or are they for experienced, well-equipped DXers?

        >

        > I'm pretty sure that none of our three council camps have ever been on the air on HF. The only camp I've seen operating was Worth Ranch, while I was there in 2008, but they only run three weeks of camp.

        >

        > Finally, what about non-US camps? I'd expect some sort of credit for working GB2GP, if I ever manage it.

        >

        > Info on radio Scouting in the UK : http://www.radio-scouting.org.uk/

        >

        > wunder

        > --

        > Walter Underwood

        > Venture ASM, Troop 14, Palo Alto

        > K6WRU

        >

        >

        >

         

         

         

         

         

         

        ------------------------------------

         

        Check out the UK Radio-Scouting page here at Yahoo!Groups. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/radio-scouting-uk

         

        Now that you've got new licensees in your unit, why not have them subscibe to http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ScoutRadioYouth

         

        Visit "Operation On Target BSA" Mountain Top Signaling:

        http://www.ontargetbsa.org/

         

        Great list of Scouting/Amateur Radio web sites:

        http://www.k1dwu.net/ham-links/clubs.-.scouting.phtml

         

        SCOUTING and AMATEUR RADIO - FUN FOR ALL AGESYahoo! Groups Links

         

        <*> To visit your group on the web, go to:

            http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ScoutRadio/

         

        <*> Your email settings:

            Individual Email | Traditional

         

        <*> To change settings online go to:

            http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ScoutRadio/join

            (Yahoo! ID required)

         

        <*> To change settings via email:

            ScoutRadio-digest@yahoogroups.com

            ScoutRadio-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com

         

        <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:

            ScoutRadio-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

         

        <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:

            http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

         

         

        __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus signature database 6086 (20110501) __________

         

        The message was checked by ESET Smart Security.

         

        http://www.eset.com

         



        __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus signature database 6086 (20110501) __________

        The message was checked by ESET Smart Security.

        http://www.eset.com

         

         

         

         

         


        __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus signature database 6092 (20110503) __________


        The message was checked by ESET Smart Security.


        http://www.eset.com


        __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus signature database 6092 (20110503) __________


        The message was checked by ESET Smart Security.


        http://www.eset.com

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