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RE: [scoutradio] What regulations apply during JOTA?

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  • malcolm.bell@btinternet.com
    ... Pleased to report this is no longer the case, and all UK stations whether operating under a special call or not are now permitted to allow supervised 3rd
    Message 1 of 7 , Mar 19, 2001
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      > ** Limited to special-event stations with call sign prefix GB, (GB3
      > excluded).
      >

      Pleased to report this is no longer the case, and all UK stations whether
      operating under a special call or not are now permitted to allow supervised
      3rd party greetings to be carried to those countries where bi-lateral
      agreements exist.

      Pitcairn Island is certainly 'on the list' - wow, what a lot of traffic that
      generates! Don't you just love rules?

      Malcolm
      G4CXT
    • Don L. Jackson
      Hi Malcolm, What you say may very well be true, but from the standpoint of US regulations, which the original inquirer was asking about, say (in part):
      Message 2 of 7 , Mar 19, 2001
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        Hi Malcolm,

        What you say may very well be true, but from the standpoint of US
        regulations, which the original inquirer was asking about, say (in part):

        §97.115 Third party communications.
        (a) An amateur station may transmit messages for a third party to:
        (2) Any station within the jurisdiction of any foreign government
        whose administration has made arrangements with the United States
        to allow amateur stations to be used for transmitting international
        communications on behalf of third parties. No station shall transmit
        messages for a third party to any station within the jurisdiction of any
        foreign government whose administration has not made such an
        arrangement.

        So the key to this is not that European countries grant special rights, it
        is whether or not they have made arrangements with the US FCC to do third
        party traffic. I do not recall seeing this happen in the past -- I could
        very well be wrong. I would very much like to see it happen.

        Also in regard to your additional posting concerning the GB prefix, US hams
        are limited by what the FCC says, so unless there has been a "bi-lateral"
        agreement concluded between US and UK on this, the GB restriction still
        applies to us (US). Glad to hear UK has done their part.

        73,
        Don AE5K

        At 04:09 PM 03/19/2001 -0000, G4CXT wrote:
        >The picture is better than you think ....
        >
        >A number of European countries are granted 'special' 3rd party rights for
        >the annual JOTA event which opens up the number of countries to and from
        >which 3rd party greetings can be exchanged. I don't have the full list to
        >hand, and in any case, it grows each year.
        >
        >If I don't remember to post details before next October's JOTA in this
        >newsgroup, then drop me a line as a reminder.
        >
        >I will also add details to the UK WEB site closer to the event.

        :::additional posting said:::

        >> ** Limited to special-event stations with call sign prefix GB, (GB3
        >> excluded).
        >>
        >
        >Pleased to report this is no longer the case, and all UK stations whether
        >operating under a special call or not are now permitted to allow supervised
        >3rd party greetings to be carried to those countries where bi-lateral
        >agreements exist.
        >
        >
        >
        >73 Malcolm
        >G4CXT
        >
        >www.radio-scouting.org.uk
        >
        >
        >
        >> -----Original Message-----
        >> From: Don L. Jackson [mailto:don@...]
        >> Sent: 19 March 2001 13:22
        >> To: scoutradio@yahoogroups.com
        >> Subject: Re: [scoutradio] What regulations apply during JOTA?
        >>
        >>
        >> The complete current FCC regs apply all the time. There's
        >> nothing special
        >> about JOTA (as far as regs are concerned). To answer your
        >> question, no, an
        >> unlicensed Scout cannot talk legally to ANYONE in Germany,
        >> licensed or not.
        >>
        >> 73,
        >> Don AE5K
        >>
        >> At 01:10 PM 03/19/2001 -0000, you wrote:
        >> >What regulations apply during JOTA for allowing non licensed scouts
        >> >talk to stations outside the USA under the direction of a licensed
        >> >control operator? I asked a similar question in a different
        >> group and
        >> >the consensus was that the USA must have a Third-Party Traffic
        >> >agreement with the country in question. I just looked at the list of
        >> >countries with Third-Party Traffic agreements published in the April
        >> >QST. The list is not very big! If this interpretation of the
        >> >regulations is correct it would severely limit JOTA operations. So,
        >> >can we allow a scout to talk another scout in say Germany?
        >>
        >>
        >>
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        >>
        >>
        >
        >
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        >
        >
        >
      • malcolm.bell@btinternet.com
        Hi Don, Here is the good news, direct from the UK licence: 1(8) Having regard to sub-clauses 2(10) and 3(3), greetings messages may be sent by non-licensed
        Message 3 of 7 , Mar 19, 2001
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          Hi Don,

          Here is the good news, direct from the UK licence:

          1(8) Having regard to sub-clauses 2(10) and 3(3), greetings messages may be
          sent by non-licensed persons provided
          that:

          (a) it is under the direct supervision of the Licensee or other
          Authorised Club Member (in case of a Licence
          held on behalf of a club), who must operate the transmitter and
          identify the station; and
          (b) each greetings message does not exceed five minutes; and
          (c) greetings messages may be sent and received only within the United
          Kingdom or to and from stations in
          the United States of America, the Republic of Maldives, Gibraltar,
          Malta and Falkland Islands. Greetings
          messages may also be sent to or from stations in Canada and Pitcairn
          Islands provided that each greetings
          message does not exceed two minutes and that each person may only send
          one such message to each
          station with which the station is in contact.

          I have to assume that the FCC has a similar agreement with the UK RA,
          otherwise its a bit pointless - hi!

          If you are a glutton for punishment you can read the full text here:

          http://www.radio.gov.uk/ look in the index under amateur radio, then BR68

          This is the permanent position - which is extended during JOTA as reported
          earlier.

          You are quite right, of course - its is for each individual country's
          administration to agree their terms with the FCC, and just because a
          bilateral agreement exists between a particular country and the UK its wrong
          of me to assume that there is also one with the USA.

          Keep battling for it though - its a great treat for our Scouts to exchange
          messages with other groups around Europe and the US, oh yes, and the
          Pitcairn Is! The highlight of JOTA for some of our participants!

          Regards

          Malcolm



          > -----Original Message-----
          > From: Don L. Jackson [mailto:don@...]
          > Sent: 19 March 2001 16:37
          > To: scoutradio@yahoogroups.com
          > Subject: RE: [scoutradio] What regulations apply during JOTA?
          >
          >
          > Hi Malcolm,
          >
          > What you say may very well be true, but from the standpoint of US
          > regulations, which the original inquirer was asking about,
          > say (in part):
          >
          > §97.115 Third party communications.
          > (a) An amateur station may transmit messages for a third party to:
          > (2) Any station within the jurisdiction of any foreign government
          > whose administration has made arrangements with the United States
          > to allow amateur stations to be used for transmitting
          > international
          > communications on behalf of third parties. No station
          > shall transmit
          > messages for a third party to any station within the
          > jurisdiction of any
          > foreign government whose administration has not made such an
          > arrangement.
          >
          > So the key to this is not that European countries grant
          > special rights, it
          > is whether or not they have made arrangements with the US FCC
          > to do third
          > party traffic. I do not recall seeing this happen in the
          > past -- I could
          > very well be wrong. I would very much like to see it happen.
          >
          > Also in regard to your additional posting concerning the GB
          > prefix, US hams
          > are limited by what the FCC says, so unless there has been a
          > "bi-lateral"
          > agreement concluded between US and UK on this, the GB
          > restriction still
          > applies to us (US). Glad to hear UK has done their part.
          >
          > 73,
          > Don AE5K
          >
          > At 04:09 PM 03/19/2001 -0000, G4CXT wrote:
          > >The picture is better than you think ....
          > >
          > >A number of European countries are granted 'special' 3rd
          > party rights for
          > >the annual JOTA event which opens up the number of countries
          > to and from
          > >which 3rd party greetings can be exchanged. I don't have
          > the full list to
          > >hand, and in any case, it grows each year.
          > >
          > >If I don't remember to post details before next October's
          > JOTA in this
          > >newsgroup, then drop me a line as a reminder.
          > >
          > >I will also add details to the UK WEB site closer to the event.
          >
          > :::additional posting said:::
          >
          > >> ** Limited to special-event stations with call sign prefix GB, (GB3
          > >> excluded).
          > >>
          > >
          > >Pleased to report this is no longer the case, and all UK
          > stations whether
          > >operating under a special call or not are now permitted to
          > allow supervised
          > >3rd party greetings to be carried to those countries where bi-lateral
          > >agreements exist.
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >73 Malcolm
          > >G4CXT
          > >
          > >www.radio-scouting.org.uk
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >> -----Original Message-----
          > >> From: Don L. Jackson [mailto:don@...]
          > >> Sent: 19 March 2001 13:22
          > >> To: scoutradio@yahoogroups.com
          > >> Subject: Re: [scoutradio] What regulations apply during JOTA?
          > >>
          > >>
          > >> The complete current FCC regs apply all the time. There's
          > >> nothing special
          > >> about JOTA (as far as regs are concerned). To answer your
          > >> question, no, an
          > >> unlicensed Scout cannot talk legally to ANYONE in Germany,
          > >> licensed or not.
          > >>
          > >> 73,
          > >> Don AE5K
          > >>
          > >> At 01:10 PM 03/19/2001 -0000, you wrote:
          > >> >What regulations apply during JOTA for allowing non
          > licensed scouts
          > >> >talk to stations outside the USA under the direction of a
          > licensed
          > >> >control operator? I asked a similar question in a different
          > >> group and
          > >> >the consensus was that the USA must have a Third-Party Traffic
          > >> >agreement with the country in question. I just looked at
          > the list of
          > >> >countries with Third-Party Traffic agreements published
          > in the April
          > >> >QST. The list is not very big! If this interpretation of the
          > >> >regulations is correct it would severely limit JOTA
          > operations. So,
          > >> >can we allow a scout to talk another scout in say Germany?
          > >>
          > >>
          > >>
          > >> ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
          > >> ---------------------~-~>
          > >> We give away $70,000 a month! Come to iWin.com for
          > >> your chance to win!
          > >> http://us.click.yahoo.com/r_1oCB/BJVCAA/4ihDAA/yNPVlB/TM
          > >> --------------------------------------------------------------
          > >> -------_->
          > >>
          > >> SCOUTING and AMATEUR RADIO - FUN FOR ALL AGES
          > >>
          > >> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
          > >> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
          > >>
          > >>
          > >>
          > >
          > >
          > >SCOUTING and AMATEUR RADIO - FUN FOR ALL AGES
          > >
          > >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
          http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
          >
          >
          >



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