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Re: [scoutradio] What regulations apply during JOTA?

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  • Jon Pearl W4ABC
    Hi Jeff and Don A couple of small addendums apply to the list that the ARRL has noted below... Third-party Traffic List Countries that Share a Third-Party
    Message 1 of 7 , Mar 19, 2001
      Hi Jeff and Don

      A couple of small addendums apply to the list that the ARRL has noted
      below...

      Third-party Traffic List
      Countries that Share a Third-Party Traffic Agreement with the United States
      of America

      V2 -- Antigua/Barbuda
      LU -- Argentina
      VK -- Australia
      V3 -- Belize
      CP -- Bolivia
      T9 -- Bosnia-Herzegovina
      PY -- Brazil
      VE -- Canada
      CE -- Chile
      HK -- Colombia
      D6 -- Comoros
      TI -- Costa Rica
      CO -- Cuba
      HI -- Dominican Republic
      J7 -- Dominica
      HC -- Ecuador
      YS -- El Salvador
      V6 -- Federated States of Micronesia
      9G -- Ghana
      J3 -- Grenada
      TG -- Guatemala
      8R -- Guyana
      6Y -- Jamaica
      HH -- Haiti
      HR -- Honduras 4X -- Israel
      JY -- Jordan
      EL -- Liberia
      V7 -- Marshall Islands
      XE -- Mexico
      YN -- Nicaragua
      HP -- Panama
      ZP -- Paraguay
      OA -- Peru
      DU -- Philippines
      VR6 -- Pitcairn Islands*
      V4 -- St.Christ./Nevis
      J6 -- St. Lucia
      J8 -- St. Vincent
      9L -- Sierra Leone
      ZS -- South Africa
      3DA - Swaziland
      9Y -- Trinidad/Tobago
      TA -- Turkey
      GB -- U.K.**
      CX -- Uruguay
      YV -- Venezuela
      4U1ITU - ITU Geneva
      4U1VIC - VIC Vienna


      * Since 1970, there has been an informal agreement between the U.K. and the
      US, permitting Pitcairn and US amateurs to exchange messages concerning
      medical emergencies, urgent need for equipment of supplies, and private or
      personal matters of island residents.

      ** Limited to special-event stations with call sign prefix GB, (GB3
      excluded).

      73,

      Jon Pearl W4ABC
      w4abc@...


      ----- Original Message -----
      From: <jeffhburns@...>
      To: <scoutradio@yahoogroups.com>
      Sent: Monday, March 19, 2001 8:10 AM
      Subject: [scoutradio] What regulations apply during JOTA?


      > What regulations apply during JOTA for allowing non licensed scouts
      > talk to stations outside the USA under the direction of a licensed
      > control operator? I asked a similar question in a different group and
      > the consensus was that the USA must have a Third-Party Traffic
      > agreement with the country in question. I just looked at the list of
      > countries with Third-Party Traffic agreements published in the April
      > QST. The list is not very big! If this interpretation of the
      > regulations is correct it would severely limit JOTA operations. So,
      > can we allow a scout to talk another scout in say Germany?
    • malcolm.bell@btinternet.com
      The picture is better than you think .... A number of European countries are granted special 3rd party rights for the annual JOTA event which opens up the
      Message 2 of 7 , Mar 19, 2001
        The picture is better than you think ....

        A number of European countries are granted 'special' 3rd party rights for
        the annual JOTA event which opens up the number of countries to and from
        which 3rd party greetings can be exchanged. I don't have the full list to
        hand, and in any case, it grows each year.

        If I don't remember to post details before next October's JOTA in this
        newsgroup, then drop me a line as a reminder.

        I will also add details to the UK WEB site closer to the event.

        73 Malcolm
        G4CXT

        www.radio-scouting.org.uk



        > -----Original Message-----
        > From: Don L. Jackson [mailto:don@...]
        > Sent: 19 March 2001 13:22
        > To: scoutradio@yahoogroups.com
        > Subject: Re: [scoutradio] What regulations apply during JOTA?
        >
        >
        > The complete current FCC regs apply all the time. There's
        > nothing special
        > about JOTA (as far as regs are concerned). To answer your
        > question, no, an
        > unlicensed Scout cannot talk legally to ANYONE in Germany,
        > licensed or not.
        >
        > 73,
        > Don AE5K
        >
        > At 01:10 PM 03/19/2001 -0000, you wrote:
        > >What regulations apply during JOTA for allowing non licensed scouts
        > >talk to stations outside the USA under the direction of a licensed
        > >control operator? I asked a similar question in a different
        > group and
        > >the consensus was that the USA must have a Third-Party Traffic
        > >agreement with the country in question. I just looked at the list of
        > >countries with Third-Party Traffic agreements published in the April
        > >QST. The list is not very big! If this interpretation of the
        > >regulations is correct it would severely limit JOTA operations. So,
        > >can we allow a scout to talk another scout in say Germany?
        >
        >
        >
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        >
        >
        >
      • malcolm.bell@btinternet.com
        ... Pleased to report this is no longer the case, and all UK stations whether operating under a special call or not are now permitted to allow supervised 3rd
        Message 3 of 7 , Mar 19, 2001
          > ** Limited to special-event stations with call sign prefix GB, (GB3
          > excluded).
          >

          Pleased to report this is no longer the case, and all UK stations whether
          operating under a special call or not are now permitted to allow supervised
          3rd party greetings to be carried to those countries where bi-lateral
          agreements exist.

          Pitcairn Island is certainly 'on the list' - wow, what a lot of traffic that
          generates! Don't you just love rules?

          Malcolm
          G4CXT
        • Don L. Jackson
          Hi Malcolm, What you say may very well be true, but from the standpoint of US regulations, which the original inquirer was asking about, say (in part):
          Message 4 of 7 , Mar 19, 2001
            Hi Malcolm,

            What you say may very well be true, but from the standpoint of US
            regulations, which the original inquirer was asking about, say (in part):

            §97.115 Third party communications.
            (a) An amateur station may transmit messages for a third party to:
            (2) Any station within the jurisdiction of any foreign government
            whose administration has made arrangements with the United States
            to allow amateur stations to be used for transmitting international
            communications on behalf of third parties. No station shall transmit
            messages for a third party to any station within the jurisdiction of any
            foreign government whose administration has not made such an
            arrangement.

            So the key to this is not that European countries grant special rights, it
            is whether or not they have made arrangements with the US FCC to do third
            party traffic. I do not recall seeing this happen in the past -- I could
            very well be wrong. I would very much like to see it happen.

            Also in regard to your additional posting concerning the GB prefix, US hams
            are limited by what the FCC says, so unless there has been a "bi-lateral"
            agreement concluded between US and UK on this, the GB restriction still
            applies to us (US). Glad to hear UK has done their part.

            73,
            Don AE5K

            At 04:09 PM 03/19/2001 -0000, G4CXT wrote:
            >The picture is better than you think ....
            >
            >A number of European countries are granted 'special' 3rd party rights for
            >the annual JOTA event which opens up the number of countries to and from
            >which 3rd party greetings can be exchanged. I don't have the full list to
            >hand, and in any case, it grows each year.
            >
            >If I don't remember to post details before next October's JOTA in this
            >newsgroup, then drop me a line as a reminder.
            >
            >I will also add details to the UK WEB site closer to the event.

            :::additional posting said:::

            >> ** Limited to special-event stations with call sign prefix GB, (GB3
            >> excluded).
            >>
            >
            >Pleased to report this is no longer the case, and all UK stations whether
            >operating under a special call or not are now permitted to allow supervised
            >3rd party greetings to be carried to those countries where bi-lateral
            >agreements exist.
            >
            >
            >
            >73 Malcolm
            >G4CXT
            >
            >www.radio-scouting.org.uk
            >
            >
            >
            >> -----Original Message-----
            >> From: Don L. Jackson [mailto:don@...]
            >> Sent: 19 March 2001 13:22
            >> To: scoutradio@yahoogroups.com
            >> Subject: Re: [scoutradio] What regulations apply during JOTA?
            >>
            >>
            >> The complete current FCC regs apply all the time. There's
            >> nothing special
            >> about JOTA (as far as regs are concerned). To answer your
            >> question, no, an
            >> unlicensed Scout cannot talk legally to ANYONE in Germany,
            >> licensed or not.
            >>
            >> 73,
            >> Don AE5K
            >>
            >> At 01:10 PM 03/19/2001 -0000, you wrote:
            >> >What regulations apply during JOTA for allowing non licensed scouts
            >> >talk to stations outside the USA under the direction of a licensed
            >> >control operator? I asked a similar question in a different
            >> group and
            >> >the consensus was that the USA must have a Third-Party Traffic
            >> >agreement with the country in question. I just looked at the list of
            >> >countries with Third-Party Traffic agreements published in the April
            >> >QST. The list is not very big! If this interpretation of the
            >> >regulations is correct it would severely limit JOTA operations. So,
            >> >can we allow a scout to talk another scout in say Germany?
            >>
            >>
            >>
            >> ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
            >> ---------------------~-~>
            >> We give away $70,000 a month! Come to iWin.com for
            >> your chance to win!
            >> http://us.click.yahoo.com/r_1oCB/BJVCAA/4ihDAA/yNPVlB/TM
            >> --------------------------------------------------------------
            >> -------_->
            >>
            >> SCOUTING and AMATEUR RADIO - FUN FOR ALL AGES
            >>
            >> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
            >> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
            >>
            >>
            >>
            >
            >
            >SCOUTING and AMATEUR RADIO - FUN FOR ALL AGES
            >
            >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
            >
            >
            >
          • malcolm.bell@btinternet.com
            Hi Don, Here is the good news, direct from the UK licence: 1(8) Having regard to sub-clauses 2(10) and 3(3), greetings messages may be sent by non-licensed
            Message 5 of 7 , Mar 19, 2001
              Hi Don,

              Here is the good news, direct from the UK licence:

              1(8) Having regard to sub-clauses 2(10) and 3(3), greetings messages may be
              sent by non-licensed persons provided
              that:

              (a) it is under the direct supervision of the Licensee or other
              Authorised Club Member (in case of a Licence
              held on behalf of a club), who must operate the transmitter and
              identify the station; and
              (b) each greetings message does not exceed five minutes; and
              (c) greetings messages may be sent and received only within the United
              Kingdom or to and from stations in
              the United States of America, the Republic of Maldives, Gibraltar,
              Malta and Falkland Islands. Greetings
              messages may also be sent to or from stations in Canada and Pitcairn
              Islands provided that each greetings
              message does not exceed two minutes and that each person may only send
              one such message to each
              station with which the station is in contact.

              I have to assume that the FCC has a similar agreement with the UK RA,
              otherwise its a bit pointless - hi!

              If you are a glutton for punishment you can read the full text here:

              http://www.radio.gov.uk/ look in the index under amateur radio, then BR68

              This is the permanent position - which is extended during JOTA as reported
              earlier.

              You are quite right, of course - its is for each individual country's
              administration to agree their terms with the FCC, and just because a
              bilateral agreement exists between a particular country and the UK its wrong
              of me to assume that there is also one with the USA.

              Keep battling for it though - its a great treat for our Scouts to exchange
              messages with other groups around Europe and the US, oh yes, and the
              Pitcairn Is! The highlight of JOTA for some of our participants!

              Regards

              Malcolm



              > -----Original Message-----
              > From: Don L. Jackson [mailto:don@...]
              > Sent: 19 March 2001 16:37
              > To: scoutradio@yahoogroups.com
              > Subject: RE: [scoutradio] What regulations apply during JOTA?
              >
              >
              > Hi Malcolm,
              >
              > What you say may very well be true, but from the standpoint of US
              > regulations, which the original inquirer was asking about,
              > say (in part):
              >
              > §97.115 Third party communications.
              > (a) An amateur station may transmit messages for a third party to:
              > (2) Any station within the jurisdiction of any foreign government
              > whose administration has made arrangements with the United States
              > to allow amateur stations to be used for transmitting
              > international
              > communications on behalf of third parties. No station
              > shall transmit
              > messages for a third party to any station within the
              > jurisdiction of any
              > foreign government whose administration has not made such an
              > arrangement.
              >
              > So the key to this is not that European countries grant
              > special rights, it
              > is whether or not they have made arrangements with the US FCC
              > to do third
              > party traffic. I do not recall seeing this happen in the
              > past -- I could
              > very well be wrong. I would very much like to see it happen.
              >
              > Also in regard to your additional posting concerning the GB
              > prefix, US hams
              > are limited by what the FCC says, so unless there has been a
              > "bi-lateral"
              > agreement concluded between US and UK on this, the GB
              > restriction still
              > applies to us (US). Glad to hear UK has done their part.
              >
              > 73,
              > Don AE5K
              >
              > At 04:09 PM 03/19/2001 -0000, G4CXT wrote:
              > >The picture is better than you think ....
              > >
              > >A number of European countries are granted 'special' 3rd
              > party rights for
              > >the annual JOTA event which opens up the number of countries
              > to and from
              > >which 3rd party greetings can be exchanged. I don't have
              > the full list to
              > >hand, and in any case, it grows each year.
              > >
              > >If I don't remember to post details before next October's
              > JOTA in this
              > >newsgroup, then drop me a line as a reminder.
              > >
              > >I will also add details to the UK WEB site closer to the event.
              >
              > :::additional posting said:::
              >
              > >> ** Limited to special-event stations with call sign prefix GB, (GB3
              > >> excluded).
              > >>
              > >
              > >Pleased to report this is no longer the case, and all UK
              > stations whether
              > >operating under a special call or not are now permitted to
              > allow supervised
              > >3rd party greetings to be carried to those countries where bi-lateral
              > >agreements exist.
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >73 Malcolm
              > >G4CXT
              > >
              > >www.radio-scouting.org.uk
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >> -----Original Message-----
              > >> From: Don L. Jackson [mailto:don@...]
              > >> Sent: 19 March 2001 13:22
              > >> To: scoutradio@yahoogroups.com
              > >> Subject: Re: [scoutradio] What regulations apply during JOTA?
              > >>
              > >>
              > >> The complete current FCC regs apply all the time. There's
              > >> nothing special
              > >> about JOTA (as far as regs are concerned). To answer your
              > >> question, no, an
              > >> unlicensed Scout cannot talk legally to ANYONE in Germany,
              > >> licensed or not.
              > >>
              > >> 73,
              > >> Don AE5K
              > >>
              > >> At 01:10 PM 03/19/2001 -0000, you wrote:
              > >> >What regulations apply during JOTA for allowing non
              > licensed scouts
              > >> >talk to stations outside the USA under the direction of a
              > licensed
              > >> >control operator? I asked a similar question in a different
              > >> group and
              > >> >the consensus was that the USA must have a Third-Party Traffic
              > >> >agreement with the country in question. I just looked at
              > the list of
              > >> >countries with Third-Party Traffic agreements published
              > in the April
              > >> >QST. The list is not very big! If this interpretation of the
              > >> >regulations is correct it would severely limit JOTA
              > operations. So,
              > >> >can we allow a scout to talk another scout in say Germany?
              > >>
              > >>
              > >>
              > >> ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
              > >> ---------------------~-~>
              > >> We give away $70,000 a month! Come to iWin.com for
              > >> your chance to win!
              > >> http://us.click.yahoo.com/r_1oCB/BJVCAA/4ihDAA/yNPVlB/TM
              > >> --------------------------------------------------------------
              > >> -------_->
              > >>
              > >> SCOUTING and AMATEUR RADIO - FUN FOR ALL AGES
              > >>
              > >> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
              > >> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
              > >>
              > >>
              > >>
              > >
              > >
              > >SCOUTING and AMATEUR RADIO - FUN FOR ALL AGES
              > >
              > >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
              http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
              >
              >
              >



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