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Re: [ScoutRadio] FCC 97.113 and summer camp radio merit badge

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  • Bill Stewart, w2bsa
    That would come under the education exemption, in that the paid person who also has a ham radio license is teaching the Radio Merit badge class. There is
    Message 1 of 6 , Oct 13, 2009
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      That would come under the education exemption, in that the paid person
      who also has a ham radio
      license is teaching the Radio Merit badge class. There is nothing to
      preclude a licensee from doing that.
      The licensee gets no remuneration by virtue of the fact that the
      licensee is a ham.
      The licensee gets remuneration by virtue of the fact that the licensee
      is hired to teach. Most likely
      the licensee was hired to teach other merit badges as well, for example,
      computers and/or electronics and/or
      electricity, if I am remembering my merit badge titles right.

      Bill, W2BSA

      Stephen M. Shearer wrote:
      >
      >
      > The issue of FCC 97.113 has raised discussion in many email groups and
      > web forums. BSA summer camps running radio merit badge could have an
      > issue. "obviously" using ham radio for camp staff communications isn't
      > OK, but will making a radio contact (using paid camp staff) for radio
      > merit badge be an issue? Some camps have a volunteer running the merit
      > badge (lack of a ham in the camp staff). The merit badge communications
      > does "benefit the public" (the scout) and only indirectly the Camp (the
      > camp may get campers because of the merit badge - science camp for
      > example)...
      > Something to think/talk about. What do you think?
      >
      > also see:
      > http://www.arrl.org/news/files/ARRL_AppropriateUseGuidelines.pdf
      > <http://www.arrl.org/news/files/ARRL_AppropriateUseGuidelines.pdf>
      > <http://www.arrl.org/news/files/ARRL_AppropriateUseGuidelines.pdf
      > <http://www.arrl.org/news/files/ARRL_AppropriateUseGuidelines.pdf>>
      > and see: http://forums.qrz.com/showthread.php?t=220443
      > <http://forums.qrz.com/showthread.php?t=220443>
      > <http://forums.qrz.com/showthread.php?t=220443
      > <http://forums.qrz.com/showthread.php?t=220443>>
      >
      > steve WB3LGC
      >
      > ___
      >
      >
    • Wayne W. Santos
      Sounds logical - but then decision aren t always based on logic or facts. Would be good if we could get BSA and the ARRL to finalize that MOU. To:
      Message 2 of 6 , Oct 13, 2009
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        Sounds logical - but then decision aren't always based on logic or facts.
         
        Would be good if we could get BSA and the ARRL to finalize that MOU.
         

        To: ScoutRadio@yahoogroups.com
        CC: wb3fup@...
        From: w2bsa@...
        Date: Tue, 13 Oct 2009 11:57:21 -0400
        Subject: Re: [ScoutRadio] FCC 97.113 and summer camp radio merit badge

         
        That would come under the education exemption, in that the paid person
        who also has a ham radio
        license is teaching the Radio Merit badge class. There is nothing to
        preclude a licensee from doing that.
        The licensee gets no remuneration by virtue of the fact that the
        licensee is a ham.
        The licensee gets remuneration by virtue of the fact that the licensee
        is hired to teach. Most likely
        the licensee was hired to teach other merit badges as well, for example,
        computers and/or electronics and/or
        electricity, if I am remembering my merit badge titles right.

        Bill, W2BSA

        Stephen M. Shearer wrote:
        >
        >
        > The issue of FCC 97.113 has raised discussion in many email groups and
        > web forums. BSA summer camps running radio merit badge could have an
        > issue. "obviously" using ham radio for camp staff communications isn't
        > OK, but will making a radio contact (using paid camp staff) for radio
        > merit badge be an issue? Some camps have a volunteer running the merit
        > badge (lack of a ham in the camp staff). The merit badge communications
        > does "benefit the public" (the scout) and only indirectly the Camp (the
        > camp may get campers because of the merit badge - science camp for
        > example)...
        > Something to think/talk about. What do you think?
        >
        > also see:
        > http://www.arrl. org/news/ files/ARRL_ AppropriateUseGu idelines. pdf
        > <http://www.arrl. org/news/ files/ARRL_ AppropriateUseGu idelines. pdf>
        > <http://www.arrl. org/news/ files/ARRL_ AppropriateUseGu idelines. pdf
        > <http://www.arrl. org/news/ files/ARRL_ AppropriateUseGu idelines. pdf>>
        > and see: http://forums. qrz.com/showthre ad.php?t= 220443
        > <http://forums. qrz.com/showthre ad.php?t= 220443>
        > <http://forums. qrz.com/showthre ad.php?t= 220443
        > <http://forums. qrz.com/showthre ad.php?t= 220443>>
        >
        > steve WB3LGC
        >
        > ___
        >
        >




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      • Brian Mileshosky
        Although an MOU won t affect anything with regard to FCC s 97.113 as it relates to BSA teaching Radio merit badge, the proposed MOU text is on ARRL s Executive
        Message 3 of 6 , Oct 13, 2009
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          Although an MOU won't affect anything with regard to FCC's 97.113 as it
          relates to BSA teaching Radio merit badge, the proposed MOU text is on
          ARRL's Executive Committee's agenda for their upcoming meeting, at which
          point I expect formal interaction with BSA to get it in a mutually
          agreeable form, and ultimately approval.

          73,
          Brian N5ZGT
          Chairman, ARRL ad hoc Committee on Scouting
          ARRL Director, Rocky Mountain Division
          www.RockyMountainDivision.org


          On Tue, 13 Oct 2009, Wayne W. Santos wrote:

          >
          > Sounds logical - but then decision aren't always based on logic or facts.
          >
          >
          >
          > Would be good if we could get BSA and the ARRL to finalize that MOU.
          >
          >
          >
          > To: ScoutRadio@yahoogroups.com
          > CC: wb3fup@...
          > From: w2bsa@...
          > Date: Tue, 13 Oct 2009 11:57:21 -0400
          > Subject: Re: [ScoutRadio] FCC 97.113 and summer camp radio merit badge
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > That would come under the education exemption, in that the paid person
          > who also has a ham radio
          > license is teaching the Radio Merit badge class. There is nothing to
          > preclude a licensee from doing that.
          > The licensee gets no remuneration by virtue of the fact that the
          > licensee is a ham.
          > The licensee gets remuneration by virtue of the fact that the licensee
          > is hired to teach. Most likely
          > the licensee was hired to teach other merit badges as well, for example,
          > computers and/or electronics and/or
          > electricity, if I am remembering my merit badge titles right.
          >
          > Bill, W2BSA
          >
          > Stephen M. Shearer wrote:
          >>
          >>
          >> The issue of FCC 97.113 has raised discussion in many email groups and
          >> web forums. BSA summer camps running radio merit badge could have an
          >> issue. "obviously" using ham radio for camp staff communications isn't
          >> OK, but will making a radio contact (using paid camp staff) for radio
          >> merit badge be an issue? Some camps have a volunteer running the merit
          >> badge (lack of a ham in the camp staff). The merit badge communications
          >> does "benefit the public" (the scout) and only indirectly the Camp (the
          >> camp may get campers because of the merit badge - science camp for
          >> example)...
          >> Something to think/talk about. What do you think?
          >>
          >> also see:
          >> http://www.arrl.org/news/files/ARRL_AppropriateUseGuidelines.pdf
          >> <http://www.arrl.org/news/files/ARRL_AppropriateUseGuidelines.pdf>
          >> <http://www.arrl.org/news/files/ARRL_AppropriateUseGuidelines.pdf
          >> <http://www.arrl.org/news/files/ARRL_AppropriateUseGuidelines.pdf>>
          >> and see: http://forums.qrz.com/showthread.php?t=220443
          >> <http://forums.qrz.com/showthread.php?t=220443>
          >> <http://forums.qrz.com/showthread.php?t=220443
          >> <http://forums.qrz.com/showthread.php?t=220443>>
          >>
          >> steve WB3LGC
          >>
          >> ___
          >>
          >>
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > _________________________________________________________________
          > Hotmail: Trusted email with MicrosoftÂ’s powerful SPAM protection.
          > http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/177141664/direct/01/

          ARRL Director, Rocky Mountain Division
          On the web at www.RockyMountainDivision.org
        • Stephen M. Shearer
          I got a chance to actually sit down and read 97.113 and in 97.113c it says A control operator may accept compensation as an incident of a teaching position
          Message 4 of 6 , Oct 26, 2009
          • 0 Attachment
            I got a chance to actually sit down and read 97.113 and in 97.113c it
            says "A control operator may accept compensation as an incident of a
            teaching position during periods of time when an amateur station is used
            by that teacher as a part of classroom instruction at an educational
            institution." -- thanks Bill for the direction. The "ruckus" is more
            related to ECOM and 97.113a. The ability to teach "the art" is also
            covered in 97.1 -- schools (scout camp) would have a difficult time
            teaching without at some point in time getting on the air...

            (on the ECOM side, one could argue the point that 97.1 also wants to
            "... advancing skills in both the communications and technical phases of
            the art." is difficult without having drills and often need to include
            the paid responders too. [yes the local government can ask for an
            exception - what about a local private hospital?] - no answer required,
            just my mumbling.)

            steve

            Bill Stewart, w2bsa wrote:
            >
            >
            > That would come under the education exemption, in that the paid person
            > who also has a ham radio
            > license is teaching the Radio Merit badge class. There is nothing to
            > preclude a licensee from doing that.
            > The licensee gets no remuneration by virtue of the fact that the
            > licensee is a ham.
            > The licensee gets remuneration by virtue of the fact that the licensee
            > is hired to teach. Most likely
            > the licensee was hired to teach other merit badges as well, for example,
            > computers and/or electronics and/or
            > electricity, if I am remembering my merit badge titles right.
            >
            > Bill, W2BSA
            >
            > Stephen M. Shearer wrote:
            > >
            > >
            > > The issue of FCC 97.113 has raised discussion in many email groups and
            > > web forums. BSA summer camps running radio merit badge could have an
            > > issue. "obviously" using ham radio for camp staff communications isn't
            > > OK, but will making a radio contact (using paid camp staff) for radio
            > > merit badge be an issue? Some camps have a volunteer running the merit
            > > badge (lack of a ham in the camp staff). The merit badge communications
            > > does "benefit the public" (the scout) and only indirectly the Camp (the
            > > camp may get campers because of the merit badge - science camp for
            > > example)...
            > > Something to think/talk about. What do you think?
            > >
            > > also see:
            > > http://www.arrl.org/news/files/ARRL_AppropriateUseGuidelines.pdf
            > <http://www.arrl.org/news/files/ARRL_AppropriateUseGuidelines.pdf>
            > > <http://www.arrl.org/news/files/ARRL_AppropriateUseGuidelines.pdf
            > <http://www.arrl.org/news/files/ARRL_AppropriateUseGuidelines.pdf>>
            > > <http://www.arrl.org/news/files/ARRL_AppropriateUseGuidelines.pdf
            > <http://www.arrl.org/news/files/ARRL_AppropriateUseGuidelines.pdf>
            > > <http://www.arrl.org/news/files/ARRL_AppropriateUseGuidelines.pdf
            > <http://www.arrl.org/news/files/ARRL_AppropriateUseGuidelines.pdf>>>
            > > and see: http://forums.qrz.com/showthread.php?t=220443
            > <http://forums.qrz.com/showthread.php?t=220443>
            > > <http://forums.qrz.com/showthread.php?t=220443
            > <http://forums.qrz.com/showthread.php?t=220443>>
            > > <http://forums.qrz.com/showthread.php?t=220443
            > <http://forums.qrz.com/showthread.php?t=220443>
            > > <http://forums.qrz.com/showthread.php?t=220443
            > <http://forums.qrz.com/showthread.php?t=220443>>>
            > >
            > > steve WB3LGC
            > >
            >
            > .
            >
            >
          • Bill Stewart, w2bsa
            Yes, and there is a petition to revise 97.113 already at FCC to resolve the problem. It has been submitted by WB6NOA and others to actually address the
            Message 5 of 6 , Oct 26, 2009
            • 0 Attachment
              Yes, and there is a petition to revise 97.113 already at FCC to resolve
              the problem.
              It has been submitted by WB6NOA and others to actually address the problems.
              Personally, in the times we live in now, there should be no reason that
              professional
              emergency communicators who are also hams should not be able to drill,
              train, and plan
              for the use of amateur radio in times of emergency.

              Methinks that someone in the FCC staff hath gone overboard when they
              made the earlier
              ruling, since the earlier ruling seems to contradict 97.1.

              73,

              Bill, W2BSA

              Stephen M. Shearer wrote:
              >
              >
              > I got a chance to actually sit down and read 97.113 and in 97.113c it
              > says "A control operator may accept compensation as an incident of a
              > teaching position during periods of time when an amateur station is used
              > by that teacher as a part of classroom instruction at an educational
              > institution." -- thanks Bill for the direction. The "ruckus" is more
              > related to ECOM and 97.113a. The ability to teach "the art" is also
              > covered in 97.1 -- schools (scout camp) would have a difficult time
              > teaching without at some point in time getting on the air...
              >
              > (on the ECOM side, one could argue the point that 97.1 also wants to
              > "... advancing skills in both the communications and technical phases of
              > the art." is difficult without having drills and often need to include
              > the paid responders too. [yes the local government can ask for an
              > exception - what about a local private hospital?] - no answer required,
              > just my mumbling.)
              >
              > steve
              >
              > Bill Stewart, w2bsa wrote:
              > >
              > >
              > > That would come under the education exemption, in that the paid person
              > > who also has a ham radio
              > > license is teaching the Radio Merit badge class. There is nothing to
              > > preclude a licensee from doing that.
              > > The licensee gets no remuneration by virtue of the fact that the
              > > licensee is a ham.
              > > The licensee gets remuneration by virtue of the fact that the licensee
              > > is hired to teach. Most likely
              > > the licensee was hired to teach other merit badges as well, for example,
              > > computers and/or electronics and/or
              > > electricity, if I am remembering my merit badge titles right.
              > >
              > > Bill, W2BSA
              > >
              > > Stephen M. Shearer wrote:
              > > >
              > > >
              > > > The issue of FCC 97.113 has raised discussion in many email groups and
              > > > web forums. BSA summer camps running radio merit badge could have an
              > > > issue. "obviously" using ham radio for camp staff communications isn't
              > > > OK, but will making a radio contact (using paid camp staff) for radio
              > > > merit badge be an issue? Some camps have a volunteer running the merit
              > > > badge (lack of a ham in the camp staff). The merit badge
              > communications
              > > > does "benefit the public" (the scout) and only indirectly the Camp
              > (the
              > > > camp may get campers because of the merit badge - science camp for
              > > > example)...
              > > > Something to think/talk about. What do you think?
              > > >
              > > > also see:
              > > > http://www.arrl.org/news/files/ARRL_AppropriateUseGuidelines.pdf
              > <http://www.arrl.org/news/files/ARRL_AppropriateUseGuidelines.pdf>
              > > <http://www.arrl.org/news/files/ARRL_AppropriateUseGuidelines.pdf
              > <http://www.arrl.org/news/files/ARRL_AppropriateUseGuidelines.pdf>>
              > > > <http://www.arrl.org/news/files/ARRL_AppropriateUseGuidelines.pdf
              > <http://www.arrl.org/news/files/ARRL_AppropriateUseGuidelines.pdf>
              > > <http://www.arrl.org/news/files/ARRL_AppropriateUseGuidelines.pdf
              > <http://www.arrl.org/news/files/ARRL_AppropriateUseGuidelines.pdf>>>
              > > > <http://www.arrl.org/news/files/ARRL_AppropriateUseGuidelines.pdf
              > <http://www.arrl.org/news/files/ARRL_AppropriateUseGuidelines.pdf>
              > > <http://www.arrl.org/news/files/ARRL_AppropriateUseGuidelines.pdf
              > <http://www.arrl.org/news/files/ARRL_AppropriateUseGuidelines.pdf>>
              > > > <http://www.arrl.org/news/files/ARRL_AppropriateUseGuidelines.pdf
              > <http://www.arrl.org/news/files/ARRL_AppropriateUseGuidelines.pdf>
              > > <http://www.arrl.org/news/files/ARRL_AppropriateUseGuidelines.pdf
              > <http://www.arrl.org/news/files/ARRL_AppropriateUseGuidelines.pdf>>>>
              > > > and see: http://forums.qrz.com/showthread.php?t=220443
              > <http://forums.qrz.com/showthread.php?t=220443>
              > > <http://forums.qrz.com/showthread.php?t=220443
              > <http://forums.qrz.com/showthread.php?t=220443>>
              > > > <http://forums.qrz.com/showthread.php?t=220443
              > <http://forums.qrz.com/showthread.php?t=220443>
              > > <http://forums.qrz.com/showthread.php?t=220443
              > <http://forums.qrz.com/showthread.php?t=220443>>>
              > > > <http://forums.qrz.com/showthread.php?t=220443
              > <http://forums.qrz.com/showthread.php?t=220443>
              > > <http://forums.qrz.com/showthread.php?t=220443
              > <http://forums.qrz.com/showthread.php?t=220443>>
              > > > <http://forums.qrz.com/showthread.php?t=220443
              > <http://forums.qrz.com/showthread.php?t=220443>
              > > <http://forums.qrz.com/showthread.php?t=220443
              > <http://forums.qrz.com/showthread.php?t=220443>>>>
              > > >
              > > > steve WB3LGC
              > > >
              > >
              > > .
              > >
              > >
              >
              >
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