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What regulations apply during JOTA?

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  • jeffhburns@yahoo.com
    What regulations apply during JOTA for allowing non licensed scouts talk to stations outside the USA under the direction of a licensed control operator? I
    Message 1 of 7 , Mar 19, 2001
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      What regulations apply during JOTA for allowing non licensed scouts
      talk to stations outside the USA under the direction of a licensed
      control operator? I asked a similar question in a different group and
      the consensus was that the USA must have a Third-Party Traffic
      agreement with the country in question. I just looked at the list of
      countries with Third-Party Traffic agreements published in the April
      QST. The list is not very big! If this interpretation of the
      regulations is correct it would severely limit JOTA operations. So,
      can we allow a scout to talk another scout in say Germany?
    • Don L. Jackson
      The complete current FCC regs apply all the time. There s nothing special about JOTA (as far as regs are concerned). To answer your question, no, an
      Message 2 of 7 , Mar 19, 2001
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        The complete current FCC regs apply all the time. There's nothing special
        about JOTA (as far as regs are concerned). To answer your question, no, an
        unlicensed Scout cannot talk legally to ANYONE in Germany, licensed or not.

        73,
        Don AE5K

        At 01:10 PM 03/19/2001 -0000, you wrote:
        >What regulations apply during JOTA for allowing non licensed scouts
        >talk to stations outside the USA under the direction of a licensed
        >control operator? I asked a similar question in a different group and
        >the consensus was that the USA must have a Third-Party Traffic
        >agreement with the country in question. I just looked at the list of
        >countries with Third-Party Traffic agreements published in the April
        >QST. The list is not very big! If this interpretation of the
        >regulations is correct it would severely limit JOTA operations. So,
        >can we allow a scout to talk another scout in say Germany?
      • Jon Pearl W4ABC
        Hi Jeff and Don A couple of small addendums apply to the list that the ARRL has noted below... Third-party Traffic List Countries that Share a Third-Party
        Message 3 of 7 , Mar 19, 2001
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          Hi Jeff and Don

          A couple of small addendums apply to the list that the ARRL has noted
          below...

          Third-party Traffic List
          Countries that Share a Third-Party Traffic Agreement with the United States
          of America

          V2 -- Antigua/Barbuda
          LU -- Argentina
          VK -- Australia
          V3 -- Belize
          CP -- Bolivia
          T9 -- Bosnia-Herzegovina
          PY -- Brazil
          VE -- Canada
          CE -- Chile
          HK -- Colombia
          D6 -- Comoros
          TI -- Costa Rica
          CO -- Cuba
          HI -- Dominican Republic
          J7 -- Dominica
          HC -- Ecuador
          YS -- El Salvador
          V6 -- Federated States of Micronesia
          9G -- Ghana
          J3 -- Grenada
          TG -- Guatemala
          8R -- Guyana
          6Y -- Jamaica
          HH -- Haiti
          HR -- Honduras 4X -- Israel
          JY -- Jordan
          EL -- Liberia
          V7 -- Marshall Islands
          XE -- Mexico
          YN -- Nicaragua
          HP -- Panama
          ZP -- Paraguay
          OA -- Peru
          DU -- Philippines
          VR6 -- Pitcairn Islands*
          V4 -- St.Christ./Nevis
          J6 -- St. Lucia
          J8 -- St. Vincent
          9L -- Sierra Leone
          ZS -- South Africa
          3DA - Swaziland
          9Y -- Trinidad/Tobago
          TA -- Turkey
          GB -- U.K.**
          CX -- Uruguay
          YV -- Venezuela
          4U1ITU - ITU Geneva
          4U1VIC - VIC Vienna


          * Since 1970, there has been an informal agreement between the U.K. and the
          US, permitting Pitcairn and US amateurs to exchange messages concerning
          medical emergencies, urgent need for equipment of supplies, and private or
          personal matters of island residents.

          ** Limited to special-event stations with call sign prefix GB, (GB3
          excluded).

          73,

          Jon Pearl W4ABC
          w4abc@...


          ----- Original Message -----
          From: <jeffhburns@...>
          To: <scoutradio@yahoogroups.com>
          Sent: Monday, March 19, 2001 8:10 AM
          Subject: [scoutradio] What regulations apply during JOTA?


          > What regulations apply during JOTA for allowing non licensed scouts
          > talk to stations outside the USA under the direction of a licensed
          > control operator? I asked a similar question in a different group and
          > the consensus was that the USA must have a Third-Party Traffic
          > agreement with the country in question. I just looked at the list of
          > countries with Third-Party Traffic agreements published in the April
          > QST. The list is not very big! If this interpretation of the
          > regulations is correct it would severely limit JOTA operations. So,
          > can we allow a scout to talk another scout in say Germany?
        • malcolm.bell@btinternet.com
          The picture is better than you think .... A number of European countries are granted special 3rd party rights for the annual JOTA event which opens up the
          Message 4 of 7 , Mar 19, 2001
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            The picture is better than you think ....

            A number of European countries are granted 'special' 3rd party rights for
            the annual JOTA event which opens up the number of countries to and from
            which 3rd party greetings can be exchanged. I don't have the full list to
            hand, and in any case, it grows each year.

            If I don't remember to post details before next October's JOTA in this
            newsgroup, then drop me a line as a reminder.

            I will also add details to the UK WEB site closer to the event.

            73 Malcolm
            G4CXT

            www.radio-scouting.org.uk



            > -----Original Message-----
            > From: Don L. Jackson [mailto:don@...]
            > Sent: 19 March 2001 13:22
            > To: scoutradio@yahoogroups.com
            > Subject: Re: [scoutradio] What regulations apply during JOTA?
            >
            >
            > The complete current FCC regs apply all the time. There's
            > nothing special
            > about JOTA (as far as regs are concerned). To answer your
            > question, no, an
            > unlicensed Scout cannot talk legally to ANYONE in Germany,
            > licensed or not.
            >
            > 73,
            > Don AE5K
            >
            > At 01:10 PM 03/19/2001 -0000, you wrote:
            > >What regulations apply during JOTA for allowing non licensed scouts
            > >talk to stations outside the USA under the direction of a licensed
            > >control operator? I asked a similar question in a different
            > group and
            > >the consensus was that the USA must have a Third-Party Traffic
            > >agreement with the country in question. I just looked at the list of
            > >countries with Third-Party Traffic agreements published in the April
            > >QST. The list is not very big! If this interpretation of the
            > >regulations is correct it would severely limit JOTA operations. So,
            > >can we allow a scout to talk another scout in say Germany?
            >
            >
            >
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            > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
            >
            >
            >
          • malcolm.bell@btinternet.com
            ... Pleased to report this is no longer the case, and all UK stations whether operating under a special call or not are now permitted to allow supervised 3rd
            Message 5 of 7 , Mar 19, 2001
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              > ** Limited to special-event stations with call sign prefix GB, (GB3
              > excluded).
              >

              Pleased to report this is no longer the case, and all UK stations whether
              operating under a special call or not are now permitted to allow supervised
              3rd party greetings to be carried to those countries where bi-lateral
              agreements exist.

              Pitcairn Island is certainly 'on the list' - wow, what a lot of traffic that
              generates! Don't you just love rules?

              Malcolm
              G4CXT
            • Don L. Jackson
              Hi Malcolm, What you say may very well be true, but from the standpoint of US regulations, which the original inquirer was asking about, say (in part):
              Message 6 of 7 , Mar 19, 2001
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                Hi Malcolm,

                What you say may very well be true, but from the standpoint of US
                regulations, which the original inquirer was asking about, say (in part):

                §97.115 Third party communications.
                (a) An amateur station may transmit messages for a third party to:
                (2) Any station within the jurisdiction of any foreign government
                whose administration has made arrangements with the United States
                to allow amateur stations to be used for transmitting international
                communications on behalf of third parties. No station shall transmit
                messages for a third party to any station within the jurisdiction of any
                foreign government whose administration has not made such an
                arrangement.

                So the key to this is not that European countries grant special rights, it
                is whether or not they have made arrangements with the US FCC to do third
                party traffic. I do not recall seeing this happen in the past -- I could
                very well be wrong. I would very much like to see it happen.

                Also in regard to your additional posting concerning the GB prefix, US hams
                are limited by what the FCC says, so unless there has been a "bi-lateral"
                agreement concluded between US and UK on this, the GB restriction still
                applies to us (US). Glad to hear UK has done their part.

                73,
                Don AE5K

                At 04:09 PM 03/19/2001 -0000, G4CXT wrote:
                >The picture is better than you think ....
                >
                >A number of European countries are granted 'special' 3rd party rights for
                >the annual JOTA event which opens up the number of countries to and from
                >which 3rd party greetings can be exchanged. I don't have the full list to
                >hand, and in any case, it grows each year.
                >
                >If I don't remember to post details before next October's JOTA in this
                >newsgroup, then drop me a line as a reminder.
                >
                >I will also add details to the UK WEB site closer to the event.

                :::additional posting said:::

                >> ** Limited to special-event stations with call sign prefix GB, (GB3
                >> excluded).
                >>
                >
                >Pleased to report this is no longer the case, and all UK stations whether
                >operating under a special call or not are now permitted to allow supervised
                >3rd party greetings to be carried to those countries where bi-lateral
                >agreements exist.
                >
                >
                >
                >73 Malcolm
                >G4CXT
                >
                >www.radio-scouting.org.uk
                >
                >
                >
                >> -----Original Message-----
                >> From: Don L. Jackson [mailto:don@...]
                >> Sent: 19 March 2001 13:22
                >> To: scoutradio@yahoogroups.com
                >> Subject: Re: [scoutradio] What regulations apply during JOTA?
                >>
                >>
                >> The complete current FCC regs apply all the time. There's
                >> nothing special
                >> about JOTA (as far as regs are concerned). To answer your
                >> question, no, an
                >> unlicensed Scout cannot talk legally to ANYONE in Germany,
                >> licensed or not.
                >>
                >> 73,
                >> Don AE5K
                >>
                >> At 01:10 PM 03/19/2001 -0000, you wrote:
                >> >What regulations apply during JOTA for allowing non licensed scouts
                >> >talk to stations outside the USA under the direction of a licensed
                >> >control operator? I asked a similar question in a different
                >> group and
                >> >the consensus was that the USA must have a Third-Party Traffic
                >> >agreement with the country in question. I just looked at the list of
                >> >countries with Third-Party Traffic agreements published in the April
                >> >QST. The list is not very big! If this interpretation of the
                >> >regulations is correct it would severely limit JOTA operations. So,
                >> >can we allow a scout to talk another scout in say Germany?
                >>
                >>
                >>
                >> ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
                >> ---------------------~-~>
                >> We give away $70,000 a month! Come to iWin.com for
                >> your chance to win!
                >> http://us.click.yahoo.com/r_1oCB/BJVCAA/4ihDAA/yNPVlB/TM
                >> --------------------------------------------------------------
                >> -------_->
                >>
                >> SCOUTING and AMATEUR RADIO - FUN FOR ALL AGES
                >>
                >> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
                >> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                >>
                >>
                >>
                >
                >
                >SCOUTING and AMATEUR RADIO - FUN FOR ALL AGES
                >
                >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                >
                >
                >
              • malcolm.bell@btinternet.com
                Hi Don, Here is the good news, direct from the UK licence: 1(8) Having regard to sub-clauses 2(10) and 3(3), greetings messages may be sent by non-licensed
                Message 7 of 7 , Mar 19, 2001
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                  Hi Don,

                  Here is the good news, direct from the UK licence:

                  1(8) Having regard to sub-clauses 2(10) and 3(3), greetings messages may be
                  sent by non-licensed persons provided
                  that:

                  (a) it is under the direct supervision of the Licensee or other
                  Authorised Club Member (in case of a Licence
                  held on behalf of a club), who must operate the transmitter and
                  identify the station; and
                  (b) each greetings message does not exceed five minutes; and
                  (c) greetings messages may be sent and received only within the United
                  Kingdom or to and from stations in
                  the United States of America, the Republic of Maldives, Gibraltar,
                  Malta and Falkland Islands. Greetings
                  messages may also be sent to or from stations in Canada and Pitcairn
                  Islands provided that each greetings
                  message does not exceed two minutes and that each person may only send
                  one such message to each
                  station with which the station is in contact.

                  I have to assume that the FCC has a similar agreement with the UK RA,
                  otherwise its a bit pointless - hi!

                  If you are a glutton for punishment you can read the full text here:

                  http://www.radio.gov.uk/ look in the index under amateur radio, then BR68

                  This is the permanent position - which is extended during JOTA as reported
                  earlier.

                  You are quite right, of course - its is for each individual country's
                  administration to agree their terms with the FCC, and just because a
                  bilateral agreement exists between a particular country and the UK its wrong
                  of me to assume that there is also one with the USA.

                  Keep battling for it though - its a great treat for our Scouts to exchange
                  messages with other groups around Europe and the US, oh yes, and the
                  Pitcairn Is! The highlight of JOTA for some of our participants!

                  Regards

                  Malcolm



                  > -----Original Message-----
                  > From: Don L. Jackson [mailto:don@...]
                  > Sent: 19 March 2001 16:37
                  > To: scoutradio@yahoogroups.com
                  > Subject: RE: [scoutradio] What regulations apply during JOTA?
                  >
                  >
                  > Hi Malcolm,
                  >
                  > What you say may very well be true, but from the standpoint of US
                  > regulations, which the original inquirer was asking about,
                  > say (in part):
                  >
                  > §97.115 Third party communications.
                  > (a) An amateur station may transmit messages for a third party to:
                  > (2) Any station within the jurisdiction of any foreign government
                  > whose administration has made arrangements with the United States
                  > to allow amateur stations to be used for transmitting
                  > international
                  > communications on behalf of third parties. No station
                  > shall transmit
                  > messages for a third party to any station within the
                  > jurisdiction of any
                  > foreign government whose administration has not made such an
                  > arrangement.
                  >
                  > So the key to this is not that European countries grant
                  > special rights, it
                  > is whether or not they have made arrangements with the US FCC
                  > to do third
                  > party traffic. I do not recall seeing this happen in the
                  > past -- I could
                  > very well be wrong. I would very much like to see it happen.
                  >
                  > Also in regard to your additional posting concerning the GB
                  > prefix, US hams
                  > are limited by what the FCC says, so unless there has been a
                  > "bi-lateral"
                  > agreement concluded between US and UK on this, the GB
                  > restriction still
                  > applies to us (US). Glad to hear UK has done their part.
                  >
                  > 73,
                  > Don AE5K
                  >
                  > At 04:09 PM 03/19/2001 -0000, G4CXT wrote:
                  > >The picture is better than you think ....
                  > >
                  > >A number of European countries are granted 'special' 3rd
                  > party rights for
                  > >the annual JOTA event which opens up the number of countries
                  > to and from
                  > >which 3rd party greetings can be exchanged. I don't have
                  > the full list to
                  > >hand, and in any case, it grows each year.
                  > >
                  > >If I don't remember to post details before next October's
                  > JOTA in this
                  > >newsgroup, then drop me a line as a reminder.
                  > >
                  > >I will also add details to the UK WEB site closer to the event.
                  >
                  > :::additional posting said:::
                  >
                  > >> ** Limited to special-event stations with call sign prefix GB, (GB3
                  > >> excluded).
                  > >>
                  > >
                  > >Pleased to report this is no longer the case, and all UK
                  > stations whether
                  > >operating under a special call or not are now permitted to
                  > allow supervised
                  > >3rd party greetings to be carried to those countries where bi-lateral
                  > >agreements exist.
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >73 Malcolm
                  > >G4CXT
                  > >
                  > >www.radio-scouting.org.uk
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >> -----Original Message-----
                  > >> From: Don L. Jackson [mailto:don@...]
                  > >> Sent: 19 March 2001 13:22
                  > >> To: scoutradio@yahoogroups.com
                  > >> Subject: Re: [scoutradio] What regulations apply during JOTA?
                  > >>
                  > >>
                  > >> The complete current FCC regs apply all the time. There's
                  > >> nothing special
                  > >> about JOTA (as far as regs are concerned). To answer your
                  > >> question, no, an
                  > >> unlicensed Scout cannot talk legally to ANYONE in Germany,
                  > >> licensed or not.
                  > >>
                  > >> 73,
                  > >> Don AE5K
                  > >>
                  > >> At 01:10 PM 03/19/2001 -0000, you wrote:
                  > >> >What regulations apply during JOTA for allowing non
                  > licensed scouts
                  > >> >talk to stations outside the USA under the direction of a
                  > licensed
                  > >> >control operator? I asked a similar question in a different
                  > >> group and
                  > >> >the consensus was that the USA must have a Third-Party Traffic
                  > >> >agreement with the country in question. I just looked at
                  > the list of
                  > >> >countries with Third-Party Traffic agreements published
                  > in the April
                  > >> >QST. The list is not very big! If this interpretation of the
                  > >> >regulations is correct it would severely limit JOTA
                  > operations. So,
                  > >> >can we allow a scout to talk another scout in say Germany?
                  > >>
                  > >>
                  > >>
                  > >> ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
                  > >> ---------------------~-~>
                  > >> We give away $70,000 a month! Come to iWin.com for
                  > >> your chance to win!
                  > >> http://us.click.yahoo.com/r_1oCB/BJVCAA/4ihDAA/yNPVlB/TM
                  > >> --------------------------------------------------------------
                  > >> -------_->
                  > >>
                  > >> SCOUTING and AMATEUR RADIO - FUN FOR ALL AGES
                  > >>
                  > >> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
                  > >> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                  > >>
                  > >>
                  > >>
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >SCOUTING and AMATEUR RADIO - FUN FOR ALL AGES
                  > >
                  > >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
                  http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                  >
                  >
                  >



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