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Re: Palmdale, CA Proposed Ordinance Re: [ScoutRadio] Digest Number1178

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  • Bill Stewart
    Good Point Don. Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry ... From: Don Poaps Date: Sat, 13 Dec 2008 12:41:34 To:
    Message 1 of 9 , Dec 13, 2008
    • 0 Attachment
      Good Point Don.

      Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry


      From: Don Poaps
      Date: Sat, 13 Dec 2008 12:41:34 -0500
      To: <scoutradio@yahoogroups.com>
      Subject: RE: Palmdale, CA Proposed Ordinance Re: [ScoutRadio] Digest Number 1178

      You forget the parents of the Scouts in your groups. When they see their Scouters having problems teaching Ham Radio. They can contact City and Town Fathers and remind them that they vote.

      Just a thought

      Don VA7DGP

      ^^^^^^^^^^^^ ^^^^^^^^^ ^^^\| ||\____                
      | | ||','''|'''' ''\__ ,___                                                    
      | Trucker_Don | | | ||__|'__|___ ||()))))) ))))))))) ))         
      ['''(@)'(@)' ''''''''' ''''''''' ''"""''|( @)(@)**** *******'( @)     
                                                                                         
      Catch me on the road at         
      or dpoaps1@hotmail. com    
       
         





      To: ScoutRadio@yahoogro ups.com
      From: k2frd@...
      Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2008 19:06:16 -0700
      Subject: Palmdale, CA Proposed Ordinance Re: [ScoutRadio] Digest Number 1178

      It strikes me that Palmdale, CA politicians have mental anomalies (dementia, brain cancer, or whatever). However, Alan W1AGP has the right advice: keep radicals like me out of the fray and let ham-savvy attorneys handle it. I would, however, ask what we can do to assist the hams of the Palmdale area? E.g., provide examples of how ham operators have saved lives, secured medical assistance, and mitigated property damage during recent California wildfires and the not-infrequent earthquakes and mudslides.

      This whole Palmdale situation is inane, insane, and way beyond the term "reasonable" .

      Beyond staying out of the way (as in "lead, follow, or get out of my way"), what can I do to help? I do not see much support coming from the FCC during this transition between administrations.

      I presume this discussion is on other online forums beyond ScoutRadio but I haven't seen the topic raised until now on this forum. We on ScoutRadio are limited in numbers but given our credentials as dedicated Scouters, we should be able to pass along the word to larger groups such as the Kenwood 2000 Group http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/KenwoodTS- 2000/ (4200 members) and Radio Modifications Group http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/RadioModif ications/ (9800 members). If nothing else, if a legal defense fund is established, to whom do we send funds?

      73 and YIS,
      Fred Stevens K2FRD

      At 12:34 AM +0000 12/12/08, ScoutRadio@yahoogro ups.com wrote:
      >
      >Frankly you should contact your ARRL Division director and the ARRL in Newington, Conn. and find out who is an attorney in your area that
      >works on Ham radio issues. So far from what I'm hearing and seeing, Palmdale CA is in complete
      >violation of Federal Law and I believe may be in violation of California State Law. This is why you need an attorney
      >to sort out where they are in the wrong. They are in the wrong but they will only respond to the legalese that
      >they will understand.
      >
      >73,
      >
      >Bill, W2BSA
      >
      >___________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ __
      >1b. Re: REF: Federal lawsuit over antenna zoning
      > Posted by: "ki4fus@bellsouth. net" ki4fus@bellsouth. net ki4fus
      > Date: Wed Dec 10, 2008 7:42 pm ((PST))
      >
      >
      >The ARRL regulatory people are very aware of this developing legal issue.
      >
      >I also encourage all hams involved to work in coordination with their Section manager and Director. The two PR things you do NOT want to do are
      >(a) have someone go off half-cocked and end up looking foolish (b) get into a general debate with citizens about if antennas look good or bad.
      >It is a legal issue and needs to be handled that way.
      >
      >
      >
      >Allen G Pitts, W1AGP
      >Media & PR Manager
      >ARRL - the national association for Amateur Radio
      >225 Main St. Newington CT 06111
      >(860) 594-0328
      >apitts@arrl. org
      >
      >___________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ __
      >1c. Re: REF: Federal lawsuit over antenna zoning
      > Posted by: "D.G." indianaj0nes@ yahoo.com indianaj0nes
      > Date: Wed Dec 10, 2008 11:42 pm ((PST))
      >
      >
      >OK, fair enough.
      >
      >This is the new You Tube site dedicated to the Palmdale debacle (N9FAA - me):
      >
      >http://www.youtube. com/user/ n9faa
      >
      >This the City of Palmdale You Tube site:
      >
      >http://www.youtube. com/user/ CityofPalmdale
      >
      >
      >This is the message I sent to the City of Palmdale You Tube administrator.
      >
      >REF: Proposed zoning ordinance against ham radio antennas
      >
      >I have started a dedicated You Tube account to broadcast the progress of the zoning oridance proposal that bans ham radio antennas in Palmdale.
      >
      >One of the videos had 400 hits (yesterday), primarily members of the radio amateur community, worldwide. We have moved the videos to this new, dedicated site. I plan to aggressively market these videos via news groups and mail servers to the ham radio community (750,000 in the United States).
      >
      >Offers are pouring in to help finance a legal attack on this ordinance. I suggest you speak with the City Council about the negative impact this ordinance will have in the eyes of the ham radio community.
      >
      >Thank you.
      >
      >David Sweigert, N9FAA
      >
      >Son of George H. Sweigert, W8ZIS, Inventor of the cordless phone
      >
      >73
      >
      >N9FAA

    • D.G.
      Scouters:   About the Palmdale antenna issue.   My Eagle Scout project was on disaster prepardness and disaster communications.  I really enjoy that aspect
      Message 2 of 9 , Dec 13, 2008
      • 0 Attachment
        Scouters:
         
        About the Palmdale antenna issue.
         
        My Eagle Scout project was on disaster prepardness and disaster communications.  I really enjoy that aspect of public service.
         
        As a compromise to "half-cocked" efforts I placed three videos on You Tube under my call sign; N9FAA.  Right now we have about 700 hits.
         
        Palmdale should be more concerned about the out-of-control gang problem and meth labs that appear like mushrooms.  There are crime issues to be concerned about.  But, instead of focusing on real problems the ham radio community became an easy target to push around.
         
        I am glad the ARRL is on board and that's great stuff.  But, as we say in the video this is only the beginning of a cookie-cutter approach to knock down ham radio rights in a domino theory.
         
        I believe Palmdale needs to realize that they are incurring negative publicity in the ham community.  Our most powerful weapon is to pass the word.  Tin horn dictators should be challenged.
         
        My two cents.
         
        N9FAA
         


        --- On Sat, 12/13/08, Bill Stewart <w2bsa@...> wrote:
        From: Bill Stewart <w2bsa@...>
        Subject: Re: Palmdale, CA Proposed Ordinance Re: [ScoutRadio] Digest Number1178
        To: ScoutRadio@yahoogroups.com
        Date: Saturday, December 13, 2008, 12:55 PM

        Good Point Don.
        Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry

        From: Don Poaps
        Date: Sat, 13 Dec 2008 12:41:34 -0500
        To: <scoutradio@yahoogro ups.com>
        Subject: RE: Palmdale, CA Proposed Ordinance Re: [ScoutRadio] Digest Number 1178
        You forget the parents of the Scouts in your groups. When they see their Scouters having problems teaching Ham Radio. They can contact City and Town Fathers and remind them that they vote.

        Just a thought

        Don VA7DGP

        ^^^^^^^^^^^^ ^^^^^^^^^ ^^^\| ||\____                
        | | ||','''|'''' ''\__ ,___                                                    
        | Trucker_Don | | | ||__|'__|___ ||()))))) ))))))))) ))         
        ['''(@)'(@)' ''''''''' ''''''''' ''"""''|( @)(@)**** *******'( @)     
                                                                                           
        Catch me on the road at         
        or dpoaps1@hotmail. com    
         
           





        To: ScoutRadio@yahoogro ups.com
        From: k2frd@...
        Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2008 19:06:16 -0700
        Subject: Palmdale, CA Proposed Ordinance Re: [ScoutRadio] Digest Number 1178

        It strikes me that Palmdale, CA politicians have mental anomalies (dementia, brain cancer, or whatever). However, Alan W1AGP has the right advice: keep radicals like me out of the fray and let ham-savvy attorneys handle it. I would, however, ask what we can do to assist the hams of the Palmdale area? E.g., provide examples of how ham operators have saved lives, secured medical assistance, and mitigated property damage during recent California wildfires and the not-infrequent earthquakes and mudslides.

        This whole Palmdale situation is inane, insane, and way beyond the term "reasonable" .

        Beyond staying out of the way (as in "lead, follow, or get out of my way"), what can I do to help? I do not see much support coming from the FCC during this transition between administrations.

        I presume this discussion is on other online forums beyond ScoutRadio but I haven't seen the topic raised until now on this forum. We on ScoutRadio are limited in numbers but given our credentials as dedicated Scouters, we should be able to pass along the word to larger groups such as the Kenwood 2000 Group http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/KenwoodTS- 2000/ (4200 members) and Radio Modifications Group http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/RadioModif ications/ (9800 members). If nothing else, if a legal defense fund is established, to whom do we send funds?

        73 and YIS,
        Fred Stevens K2FRD

        At 12:34 AM +0000 12/12/08, ScoutRadio@yahoogro ups.com wrote:
        >
        >Frankly you should contact your ARRL Division director and the ARRL in Newington, Conn. and find out who is an attorney in your area that
        >works on Ham radio issues. So far from what I'm hearing and seeing, Palmdale CA is in complete
        >violation of Federal Law and I believe may be in violation of California State Law. This is why you need an attorney
        >to sort out where they are in the wrong. They are in the wrong but they will only respond to the legalese that
        >they will understand.
        >
        >73,
        >
        >Bill, W2BSA
        >
        >___________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ __
        >1b. Re: REF: Federal lawsuit over antenna zoning
        > Posted by: "ki4fus@bellsouth. net" ki4fus@bellsouth. net ki4fus
        > Date: Wed Dec 10, 2008 7:42 pm ((PST))
        >
        >
        >The ARRL regulatory people are very aware of this developing legal issue.
        >
        >I also encourage all hams involved to work in coordination with their Section manager and Director. The two PR things you do NOT want to do are
        >(a) have someone go off half-cocked and end up looking foolish (b) get into a general debate with citizens about if antennas look good or bad.
        >It is a legal issue and needs to be handled that way.
        >
        >
        >
        >Allen G Pitts, W1AGP
        >Media & PR Manager
        >ARRL - the national association for Amateur Radio
        >225 Main St. Newington CT 06111
        >(860) 594-0328
        >apitts@arrl. org
        >
        >___________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ __
        >1c. Re: REF: Federal lawsuit over antenna zoning
        > Posted by: "D.G." indianaj0nes@ yahoo.com indianaj0nes
        > Date: Wed Dec 10, 2008 11:42 pm ((PST))
        >
        >
        >OK, fair enough.
        >
        >This is the new You Tube site dedicated to the Palmdale debacle (N9FAA - me):
        >
        >http://www.youtube. com/user/ n9faa
        >
        >This the City of Palmdale You Tube site:
        >
        >http://www.youtube. com/user/ CityofPalmdale
        >
        >
        >This is the message I sent to the City of Palmdale You Tube administrator.
        >
        >REF: Proposed zoning ordinance against ham radio antennas
        >
        >I have started a dedicated You Tube account to broadcast the progress of the zoning oridance proposal that bans ham radio antennas in Palmdale.
        >
        >One of the videos had 400 hits (yesterday), primarily members of the radio amateur community, worldwide. We have moved the videos to this new, dedicated site. I plan to aggressively market these videos via news groups and mail servers to the ham radio community (750,000 in the United States).
        >
        >Offers are pouring in to help finance a legal attack on this ordinance. I suggest you speak with the City Council about the negative impact this ordinance will have in the eyes of the ham radio community.
        >
        >Thank you.
        >
        >David Sweigert, N9FAA
        >
        >Son of George H. Sweigert, W8ZIS, Inventor of the cordless phone
        >
        >73
        >
        >N9FAA


      • Joe Serocki
        I normally don t post here, but this thread touched a nerve. If any of you are offended, don t bother with flaming email or postings, I am not here to make
        Message 3 of 9 , Dec 13, 2008
        • 0 Attachment

          I normally don’t post here, but this thread touched a nerve. If any of you are offended, don’t bother with flaming email or postings, I am not here to make friends of the like that will be offended by what I am saying.I would rather see this post trigger constructive conversation.

           

          While I totally agree with the statement that the FCC and not some vigilante group (as I see it) needs to enforce proper radio communications, I really think this is not being handled in the right way. In my humble opinion, the right way is the positive way, creating a win-win situation for both the hams and the non-ham community.

           

          Ham Radio ‘RIGHTS’ you say? What have the hams of Palmdale done to deserve these ‘rights’ to operate huge transmitters that can cause harmful interference with the rest of the community (no matter how lousy the design of the Chinese receivers are, they are also FCC certified where ham equipment is not)? What benefit have hams provided to the community of Palmdale? I know we are protected by law and FCC rules, but let me try this one on for size: Is not ham radio still defined and based around being a service? With large aerospace companies like Lockheed Martin, Boeing, and Northrop Grumman I am sure there are plenty of hams that live in the area, and can provide a valuable community resource!

           

          At least here we don’t have these issues. We have towers, we have government provided meeting places, we have KW systems on 6m (right in the middle of the lower TV channels) and KW systems on 2m and 440 (right in the middle of the cable channels), yet we have support of the Village and support of the community.

           

          Why?

           

          Because we participate in the community.

           

          ·         We offer Ham Radio and technology classes for youth and adults.

          ·         We offer regular Merit Badge sessions for Scouts on Electricity, Electronics and Radio, working directly with all local Boy Scout Councils. You might not realize how powerful the BSA is, but they provide a lot of political clout.

          ·         We are fronting a “Digital TV Information Session” and follow-up targeted at fixed income seniors and low income families that cannot afford cable/satellite, assisting them in the February conversion. We make sure the Village fronts this, and they become an ardent supporter of our group.

          ·         We work community events, providing communications support in conjunction with the work the Police Explorers do for the events.

           

          How many can talk of the services provided in the same sentence as talk of your ‘rights’? Our most powerful weapon is not ‘spreading the word’ but rather the actions we hams perform.

           

          As stated in N9FAA video “the City of Palmdale has the right to not rely on private volunteer amateur radio organizations”. They need to WANT to support ham radio! The only way to make this happen is to have ham radio be an active part of the community, working together with the community to provide trained, integrated, maybe even EMMCOMM certified hams in times of need as well as public service.

           

          For those of you that already do, I applaud your efforts! David, it sounds like you actively participate, more power to you! I know of many groups that are at least as active as ours, and I think the effort to properly promote ham radio is effort well spent. Not only does it really promote the hobby, but it makes you realize you are part of a community, a much larger thing than self.

           

          Just my thoughts, any comments?

           

          Joe Serocki

           

          From: ScoutRadio@yahoogroups.com [mailto:ScoutRadio@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of D.G.
          Sent: Saturday, December 13, 2008 6:24 PM
          To: ScoutRadio@yahoogroups.com
          Subject: Re: Palmdale, CA Proposed Ordinance Re: [ScoutRadio] Digest Number1178

           

          Scouters:

           

          About the Palmdale antenna issue.

           

          My Eagle Scout project was on disaster prepardness and disaster communications.  I really enjoy that aspect of public service.

           

          As a compromise to "half-cocked" efforts I placed three videos on You Tube under my call sign; N9FAA.  Right now we have about 700 hits.

           

          Palmdale should be more concerned about the out-of-control gang problem and meth labs that appear like mushrooms.  There are crime issues to be concerned about.  But, instead of focusing on real problems the ham radio community became an easy target to push around.

           

          I am glad the ARRL is on board and that's great stuff.  But, as we say in the video this is only the beginning of a cookie-cutter approach to knock down ham radio rights in a domino theory.

           

          I believe Palmdale needs to realize that they are incurring negative publicity in the ham community.  Our most powerful weapon is to pass the word.  Tin horn dictators should be challenged.

           

          My two cents.

           

          N9FAA

           



          --- On Sat, 12/13/08, Bill Stewart <w2bsa@...> wrote:

          From: Bill Stewart <w2bsa@...>
          Subject: Re: Palmdale, CA Proposed Ordinance Re: [ScoutRadio] Digest Number1178
          To: ScoutRadio@yahoogroups.com
          Date: Saturday, December 13, 2008, 12:55 PM

          Good Point Don.

          Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry


          From: Don Poaps
          Date: Sat, 13 Dec 2008 12:41:34 -0500
          To: <scoutradio@yahoogro ups.com>
          Subject: RE: Palmdale, CA Proposed Ordinance Re: [ScoutRadio] Digest Number 1178

          You forget the parents of the Scouts in your groups. When they see their Scouters having problems teaching Ham Radio. They can contact City and Town Fathers and remind them that they vote.

          Just a thought

          Don VA7DGP

          ^^^^^^^^^^^^ ^^^^^^^^^ ^^^\| ||\____                
          | | ||','''|'''' ''\__ ,___                                                    
          | Trucker_Don | | | ||__|'__|___ ||()))))) ))))))))) ))         
          ['''(@)'(@)' ''''''''' ''''''''' ''"""''|( @)(@)**** *******'( @)     
                                                                                             
          Catch me on the road at         
          or dpoaps1@hotmail. com    

           

             





          To: ScoutRadio@yahoogro ups.com
          From: k2frd@...
          Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2008 19:06:16 -0700
          Subject: Palmdale, CA Proposed Ordinance Re: [ScoutRadio] Digest Number 1178

          It strikes me that Palmdale, CA politicians have mental anomalies (dementia, brain cancer, or whatever). However, Alan W1AGP has the right advice: keep radicals like me out of the fray and let ham-savvy attorneys handle it. I would, however, ask what we can do to assist the hams of the Palmdale area? E.g., provide examples of how ham operators have saved lives, secured medical assistance, and mitigated property damage during recent California wildfires and the not-infrequent earthquakes and mudslides.

          This whole Palmdale situation is inane, insane, and way beyond the term "reasonable" .

          Beyond staying out of the way (as in "lead, follow, or get out of my way"), what can I do to help? I do not see much support coming from the FCC during this transition between administrations.

          I presume this discussion is on other online forums beyond ScoutRadio but I haven't seen the topic raised until now on this forum. We on ScoutRadio are limited in numbers but given our credentials as dedicated Scouters, we should be able to pass along the word to larger groups such as the Kenwood 2000 Group http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/KenwoodTS- 2000/ (4200 members) and Radio Modifications Group http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/RadioModif ications/ (9800 members). If nothing else, if a legal defense fund is established, to whom do we send funds?

          73 and YIS,
          Fred Stevens K2FRD

          At 12:34 AM +0000 12/12/08, ScoutRadio@yahoogro ups.com wrote:
          >
          >Frankly you should contact your ARRL Division director and the ARRL in Newington, Conn. and find out who is an attorney in your area that
          >works on Ham radio issues. So far from what I'm hearing and seeing, Palmdale CA is in complete
          >violation of Federal Law and I believe may be in violation of California State Law. This is why you need an attorney
          >to sort out where they are in the wrong. They are in the wrong but they will only respond to the legalese that
          >they will understand.
          >
          >73,
          >
          >Bill, W2BSA
          >
          >___________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ __
          >1b. Re: REF: Federal lawsuit over antenna zoning
          > Posted by: "ki4fus@bellsouth. net" ki4fus@bellsouth. net ki4fus
          > Date: Wed Dec 10, 2008 7:42 pm ((PST))
          >
          >
          >The ARRL regulatory people are very aware of this developing legal issue.
          >
          >I also encourage all hams involved to work in coordination with their Section manager and Director. The two PR things you do NOT want to do are
          >(a) have someone go off half-cocked and end up looking foolish (b) get into a general debate with citizens about if antennas look good or bad.
          >It is a legal issue and needs to be handled that way.
          >
          >
          >
          >Allen G Pitts, W1AGP
          >Media & PR Manager
          >ARRL - the national association for Amateur Radio
          >225 Main St. Newington CT 06111
          >(860) 594-0328
          >apitts@arrl. org
          >
          >___________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ __
          >1c. Re: REF: Federal lawsuit over antenna zoning
          > Posted by: "D.G." indianaj0nes@ yahoo.com indianaj0nes
          > Date: Wed Dec 10, 2008 11:42 pm ((PST))
          >
          >
          >OK, fair enough.
          >
          >This is the new You Tube site dedicated to the Palmdale debacle (N9FAA - me):
          >
          >http://www.youtube. com/user/ n9faa
          >
          >This the City of Palmdale You Tube site:
          >
          >http://www.youtube. com/user/ CityofPalmdale
          >
          >
          >This is the message I sent to the City of Palmdale You Tube administrator.
          >
          >REF: Proposed zoning ordinance against ham radio antennas
          >
          >I have started a dedicated You Tube account to broadcast the progress of the zoning oridance proposal that bans ham radio antennas in Palmdale.
          >
          >One of the videos had 400 hits (yesterday), primarily members of the radio amateur community, worldwide. We have moved the videos to this new, dedicated site. I plan to aggressively market these videos via news groups and mail servers to the ham radio community (750,000 in the United States).
          >
          >Offers are pouring in to help finance a legal attack on this ordinance. I suggest you speak with the City Council about the negative impact this ordinance will have in the eyes of the ham radio community.
          >
          >Thank you.
          >
          >David Sweigert, N9FAA
          >
          >Son of George H. Sweigert, W8ZIS, Inventor of the cordless phone
          >
          >73
          >
          >N9FAA

           

        • D.G.
          Thanks for your comments.   As I stated in the new video update, the City of Palmdale was warned last year, in writing, about PRB-1 issues that prohibit
          Message 4 of 9 , Dec 15, 2008
          • 0 Attachment
            Thanks for your comments.
             
            As I stated in the new video update, the City of Palmdale was warned last year, in writing, about PRB-1 issues that prohibit ordinances of this type.
             
            The FCC just may say "who cares, let the cities do this".  The FCC just got slamed by Congress for corruption and care-free foot-dragging.  I am sure the FCC doesn't want to get into a big debate with Palmdale about this.
             
            Where does that leave hams if the FCC creates a regulaotry vacuum.  Naked and unprotected.
             
            Hams need to ban together and let these tin horn dictators that we will not be pushed around by administrative facism.
             
            I agree a positive approach would be best, that is why we are attempting to get a ground swell of support and stick together.  This issue is bigger than the local ham community; who will only be pushed around by the City.
            Why should hams pay thousands of dollars in court costs to challenge this stupid ordinance when other public affairs options are available?
             
            12-14-2008 update on Palmdale ham radio ban
             
             
            N9FAA

            --- On Sat, 12/13/08, Joe Serocki <joeserocki@...> wrote:
            From: Joe Serocki <joeserocki@...>
            Subject: RE: Palmdale, CA Proposed Ordinance Re: [ScoutRadio] Digest Number1178
            To: ScoutRadio@yahoogroups.com
            Cc: eric@..., "'Tom Ciciora'" <ttc2301@...>, WeLCARS@yahoogroups.com, stonedmonkey@yahoogroups.com
            Date: Saturday, December 13, 2008, 10:34 PM

            I normally don’t post here, but this thread touched a nerve. If any of you are offended, don’t bother with flaming email or postings, I am not here to make friends of the like that will be offended by what I am saying.I would rather see this post trigger constructive conversation.

             

            While I totally agree with the statement that the FCC and not some vigilante group (as I see it) needs to enforce proper radio communications, I really think this is not being handled in the right way. In my humble opinion, the right way is the positive way, creating a win-win situation for both the hams and the non-ham community.

             

            Ham Radio ‘RIGHTS’ you say? What have the hams of Palmdale done to deserve these ‘rights’ to operate huge transmitters that can cause harmful interference with the rest of the community (no matter how lousy the design of the Chinese receivers are, they are also FCC certified where ham equipment is not)? What benefit have hams provided to the community of Palmdale? I know we are protected by law and FCC rules, but let me try this one on for size: Is not ham radio still defined and based around being a service? With large aerospace companies like Lockheed Martin, Boeing, and Northrop Grumman I am sure there are plenty of hams that live in the area, and can provide a valuable community resource!

             

            At least here we don’t have these issues. We have towers, we have government provided meeting places, we have KW systems on 6m (right in the middle of the lower TV channels) and KW systems on 2m and 440 (right in the middle of the cable channels), yet we have support of the Village and support of the community.

             

            Why?

             

            Because we participate in the community.

             

            ·         We offer Ham Radio and technology classes for youth and adults.

            ·         We offer regular Merit Badge sessions for Scouts on Electricity, Electronics and Radio, working directly with all local Boy Scout Councils. You might not realize how powerful the BSA is, but they provide a lot of political clout.

            ·         We are fronting a “Digital TV Information Session” and follow-up targeted at fixed income seniors and low income families that cannot afford cable/satellite, assisting them in the February conversion. We make sure the Village fronts this, and they become an ardent supporter of our group.

            ·         We work community events, providing communications support in conjunction with the work the Police Explorers do for the events.

             

            How many can talk of the services provided in the same sentence as talk of your ‘rights’? Our most powerful weapon is not ‘spreading the word’ but rather the actions we hams perform.

             

            As stated in N9FAA video “the City of Palmdale has the right to not rely on private volunteer amateur radio organizations”. They need to WANT to support ham radio! The only way to make this happen is to have ham radio be an active part of the community, working together with the community to provide trained, integrated, maybe even EMMCOMM certified hams in times of need as well as public service.

             

            For those of you that already do, I applaud your efforts! David, it sounds like you actively participate, more power to you! I know of many groups that are at least as active as ours, and I think the effort to properly promote ham radio is effort well spent. Not only does it really promote the hobby, but it makes you realize you are part of a community, a much larger thing than self.

             

            Just my thoughts, any comments?

             

            Joe Serocki

             

            From: ScoutRadio@yahoogro ups.com [mailto:ScoutRadio@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of D.G.
            Sent: Saturday, December 13, 2008 6:24 PM
            To: ScoutRadio@yahoogro ups.com
            Subject: Re: Palmdale, CA Proposed Ordinance Re: [ScoutRadio] Digest Number1178

             

             

            About the Palmdale antenna issue.

             

            My Eagle Scout project was on disaster prepardness and disaster communications.  I really enjoy that aspect of public service.

             

            As a compromise to "half-cocked" efforts I placed three videos on You Tube under my call sign; N9FAA.  Right now we have about 700 hits.

             

            Palmdale should be more concerned about the out-of-control gang problem and meth labs that appear like mushrooms.  There are crime issues to be concerned about.  But, instead of focusing on real problems the ham radio community became an easy target to push around.

             

            I am glad the ARRL is on board and that's great stuff.  But, as we say in the video this is only the beginning of a cookie-cutter approach to knock down ham radio rights in a domino theory.

             

            I believe Palmdale needs to realize that they are incurring negative publicity in the ham community.  Our most powerful weapon is to pass the word.  Tin horn dictators should be challenged.

             

            My two cents.

             

            N9FAA

             



            --- On Sat, 12/13/08, Bill Stewart <w2bsa@...> wrote:

            From: Bill Stewart <w2bsa@...>
            Subject: Re: Palmdale, CA Proposed Ordinance Re: [ScoutRadio] Digest Number1178
            To: ScoutRadio@yahoogro ups.com
            Date: Saturday, December 13, 2008, 12:55 PM

            Good Point Don.

            Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry


            From: Don Poaps
            Date: Sat, 13 Dec 2008 12:41:34 -0500
            To: <scoutradio@yahoogro ups.com>
            Subject: RE: Palmdale, CA Proposed Ordinance Re: [ScoutRadio] Digest Number 1178

            You forget the parents of the Scouts in your groups. When they see their Scouters having problems teaching Ham Radio. They can contact City and Town Fathers and remind them that they vote.

            Just a thought

            Don VA7DGP

            ^^^^^^^^^^^^ ^^^^^^^^^ ^^^\| ||\____                
            | | ||','''|'''' ''\__ ,___                                                    
            | Trucker_Don | | | ||__|'__|___ ||()))))) ))))))))) ))         
            ['''(@)'(@)' ''''''''' ''''''''' ''"""''|( @)(@)**** *******'( @)     
                                                                                               
            Catch me on the road at         
            or dpoaps1@hotmail. com    

             

               





            To: ScoutRadio@yahoogro ups.com
            From: k2frd@...
            Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2008 19:06:16 -0700
            Subject: Palmdale, CA Proposed Ordinance Re: [ScoutRadio] Digest Number 1178

            It strikes me that Palmdale, CA politicians have mental anomalies (dementia, brain cancer, or whatever). However, Alan W1AGP has the right advice: keep radicals like me out of the fray and let ham-savvy attorneys handle it. I would, however, ask what we can do to assist the hams of the Palmdale area? E.g., provide examples of how ham operators have saved lives, secured medical assistance, and mitigated property damage during recent California wildfires and the not-infrequent earthquakes and mudslides.

            This whole Palmdale situation is inane, insane, and way beyond the term "reasonable" .

            Beyond staying out of the way (as in "lead, follow, or get out of my way"), what can I do to help? I do not see much support coming from the FCC during this transition between administrations.

            I presume this discussion is on other online forums beyond ScoutRadio but I haven't seen the topic raised until now on this forum. We on ScoutRadio are limited in numbers but given our credentials as dedicated Scouters, we should be able to pass along the word to larger groups such as the Kenwood 2000 Group http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/KenwoodTS- 2000/ (4200 members) and Radio Modifications Group http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/RadioModif ications/ (9800 members). If nothing else, if a legal defense fund is established, to whom do we send funds?

            73 and YIS,
            Fred Stevens K2FRD

            At 12:34 AM +0000 12/12/08, ScoutRadio@yahoogro ups.com wrote:
            >
            >Frankly you should contact your ARRL Division director and the ARRL in Newington, Conn. and find out who is an attorney in your area that
            >works on Ham radio issues. So far from what I'm hearing and seeing, Palmdale CA is in complete
            >violation of Federal Law and I believe may be in violation of California State Law. This is why you need an attorney
            >to sort out where they are in the wrong. They are in the wrong but they will only respond to the legalese that
            >they will understand.
            >
            >73,
            >
            >Bill, W2BSA
            >
            >___________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ __
            >1b. Re: REF: Federal lawsuit over antenna zoning
            > Posted by: "ki4fus@bellsouth. net" ki4fus@bellsouth. net ki4fus
            > Date: Wed Dec 10, 2008 7:42 pm ((PST))
            >
            >
            >The ARRL regulatory people are very aware of this developing legal issue.
            >
            >I also encourage all hams involved to work in coordination with their Section manager and Director. The two PR things you do NOT want to do are
            >(a) have someone go off half-cocked and end up looking foolish (b) get into a general debate with citizens about if antennas look good or bad.
            >It is a legal issue and needs to be handled that way.
            >
            >
            >
            >Allen G Pitts, W1AGP
            >Media & PR Manager
            >ARRL - the national association for Amateur Radio
            >225 Main St. Newington CT 06111
            >(860) 594-0328
            >apitts@arrl. org
            >
            >___________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ __
            >1c. Re: REF: Federal lawsuit over antenna zoning
            > Posted by: "D.G." indianaj0nes@ yahoo.com indianaj0nes
            > Date: Wed Dec 10, 2008 11:42 pm ((PST))
            >
            >
            >OK, fair enough.
            >
            >This is the new You Tube site dedicated to the Palmdale debacle (N9FAA - me):
            >
            >http://www.youtube. com/user/ n9faa
            >
            >This the City of Palmdale You Tube site:
            >
            >http://www.youtube. com/user/ CityofPalmdale
            >
            >
            >This is the message I sent to the City of Palmdale You Tube administrator.
            >
            >REF: Proposed zoning ordinance against ham radio antennas
            >
            >I have started a dedicated You Tube account to broadcast the progress of the zoning oridance proposal that bans ham radio antennas in Palmdale.
            >
            >One of the videos had 400 hits (yesterday), primarily members of the radio amateur community, worldwide. We have moved the videos to this new, dedicated site. I plan to aggressively market these videos via news groups and mail servers to the ham radio community (750,000 in the United States).
            >
            >Offers are pouring in to help finance a legal attack on this ordinance. I suggest you speak with the City Council about the negative impact this ordinance will have in the eyes of the ham radio community.
            >
            >Thank you.
            >
            >David Sweigert, N9FAA
            >
            >Son of George H. Sweigert, W8ZIS, Inventor of the cordless phone
            >
            >73
            >
            >N9FAA

            Scouters:

             


          • D.G.
            Thanks for your comments.   As I stated in the new video update, the City of Palmdale was warned last year, in writing, about PRB-1 issues that prohibit
            Message 5 of 9 , Dec 15, 2008
            • 0 Attachment
              Thanks for your comments.
               
              As I stated in the new video update, the City of Palmdale was warned last year, in writing, about PRB-1 issues that prohibit ordinances of this type.
               
              The FCC just may say "who cares, let the cities do this".  The FCC just got slamed by Congress for corruption and care-free foot-dragging.  I am sure the FCC doesn't want to get into a big debate with Palmdale about this.
               
              Where does that leave hams if the FCC creates a regulaotry vacuum.  Naked and unprotected.
               
              Hams need to ban together and let these tin horn dictators that we will not be pushed around by administrative facism.
               
              I agree a positive approach would be best, that is why we are attempting to get a ground swell of support and stick together.  This issue is bigger than the local ham community; who will only be pushed around by the City.
              Why should hams pay thousands of dollars in court costs to challenge this stupid ordinance when other public affairs options are available?
               
              12-14-2008 update on Palmdale ham radio ban
               
               
              N9FAA

              --- On Sat, 12/13/08, Joe Serocki <joeserocki@...> wrote:
              From: Joe Serocki <joeserocki@...>
              Subject: RE: Palmdale, CA Proposed Ordinance Re: [ScoutRadio] Digest Number1178
              To: ScoutRadio@yahoogroups.com
              Cc: eric@..., "'Tom Ciciora'" <ttc2301@...>, WeLCARS@yahoogroups.com, stonedmonkey@yahoogroups.com
              Date: Saturday, December 13, 2008, 10:34 PM

              I normally don’t post here, but this thread touched a nerve. If any of you are offended, don’t bother with flaming email or postings, I am not here to make friends of the like that will be offended by what I am saying.I would rather see this post trigger constructive conversation.

               

              While I totally agree with the statement that the FCC and not some vigilante group (as I see it) needs to enforce proper radio communications, I really think this is not being handled in the right way. In my humble opinion, the right way is the positive way, creating a win-win situation for both the hams and the non-ham community.

               

              Ham Radio ‘RIGHTS’ you say? What have the hams of Palmdale done to deserve these ‘rights’ to operate huge transmitters that can cause harmful interference with the rest of the community (no matter how lousy the design of the Chinese receivers are, they are also FCC certified where ham equipment is not)? What benefit have hams provided to the community of Palmdale? I know we are protected by law and FCC rules, but let me try this one on for size: Is not ham radio still defined and based around being a service? With large aerospace companies like Lockheed Martin, Boeing, and Northrop Grumman I am sure there are plenty of hams that live in the area, and can provide a valuable community resource!

               

              At least here we don’t have these issues. We have towers, we have government provided meeting places, we have KW systems on 6m (right in the middle of the lower TV channels) and KW systems on 2m and 440 (right in the middle of the cable channels), yet we have support of the Village and support of the community.

               

              Why?

               

              Because we participate in the community.

               

              ·         We offer Ham Radio and technology classes for youth and adults.

              ·         We offer regular Merit Badge sessions for Scouts on Electricity, Electronics and Radio, working directly with all local Boy Scout Councils. You might not realize how powerful the BSA is, but they provide a lot of political clout.

              ·         We are fronting a “Digital TV Information Session” and follow-up targeted at fixed income seniors and low income families that cannot afford cable/satellite, assisting them in the February conversion. We make sure the Village fronts this, and they become an ardent supporter of our group.

              ·         We work community events, providing communications support in conjunction with the work the Police Explorers do for the events.

               

              How many can talk of the services provided in the same sentence as talk of your ‘rights’? Our most powerful weapon is not ‘spreading the word’ but rather the actions we hams perform.

               

              As stated in N9FAA video “the City of Palmdale has the right to not rely on private volunteer amateur radio organizations”. They need to WANT to support ham radio! The only way to make this happen is to have ham radio be an active part of the community, working together with the community to provide trained, integrated, maybe even EMMCOMM certified hams in times of need as well as public service.

               

              For those of you that already do, I applaud your efforts! David, it sounds like you actively participate, more power to you! I know of many groups that are at least as active as ours, and I think the effort to properly promote ham radio is effort well spent. Not only does it really promote the hobby, but it makes you realize you are part of a community, a much larger thing than self.

               

              Just my thoughts, any comments?

               

              Joe Serocki

               

              From: ScoutRadio@yahoogro ups.com [mailto:ScoutRadio@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of D.G.
              Sent: Saturday, December 13, 2008 6:24 PM
              To: ScoutRadio@yahoogro ups.com
              Subject: Re: Palmdale, CA Proposed Ordinance Re: [ScoutRadio] Digest Number1178

               

               

              About the Palmdale antenna issue.

               

              My Eagle Scout project was on disaster prepardness and disaster communications.  I really enjoy that aspect of public service.

               

              As a compromise to "half-cocked" efforts I placed three videos on You Tube under my call sign; N9FAA.  Right now we have about 700 hits.

               

              Palmdale should be more concerned about the out-of-control gang problem and meth labs that appear like mushrooms.  There are crime issues to be concerned about.  But, instead of focusing on real problems the ham radio community became an easy target to push around.

               

              I am glad the ARRL is on board and that's great stuff.  But, as we say in the video this is only the beginning of a cookie-cutter approach to knock down ham radio rights in a domino theory.

               

              I believe Palmdale needs to realize that they are incurring negative publicity in the ham community.  Our most powerful weapon is to pass the word.  Tin horn dictators should be challenged.

               

              My two cents.

               

              N9FAA

               



              --- On Sat, 12/13/08, Bill Stewart <w2bsa@...> wrote:

              From: Bill Stewart <w2bsa@...>
              Subject: Re: Palmdale, CA Proposed Ordinance Re: [ScoutRadio] Digest Number1178
              To: ScoutRadio@yahoogro ups.com
              Date: Saturday, December 13, 2008, 12:55 PM

              Good Point Don.

              Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry


              From: Don Poaps
              Date: Sat, 13 Dec 2008 12:41:34 -0500
              To: <scoutradio@yahoogro ups.com>
              Subject: RE: Palmdale, CA Proposed Ordinance Re: [ScoutRadio] Digest Number 1178

              You forget the parents of the Scouts in your groups. When they see their Scouters having problems teaching Ham Radio. They can contact City and Town Fathers and remind them that they vote.

              Just a thought

              Don VA7DGP

              ^^^^^^^^^^^^ ^^^^^^^^^ ^^^\| ||\____                
              | | ||','''|'''' ''\__ ,___                                                    
              | Trucker_Don | | | ||__|'__|___ ||()))))) ))))))))) ))         
              ['''(@)'(@)' ''''''''' ''''''''' ''"""''|( @)(@)**** *******'( @)     
                                                                                                 
              Catch me on the road at         
              or dpoaps1@hotmail. com    

               

                 





              To: ScoutRadio@yahoogro ups.com
              From: k2frd@...
              Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2008 19:06:16 -0700
              Subject: Palmdale, CA Proposed Ordinance Re: [ScoutRadio] Digest Number 1178

              It strikes me that Palmdale, CA politicians have mental anomalies (dementia, brain cancer, or whatever). However, Alan W1AGP has the right advice: keep radicals like me out of the fray and let ham-savvy attorneys handle it. I would, however, ask what we can do to assist the hams of the Palmdale area? E.g., provide examples of how ham operators have saved lives, secured medical assistance, and mitigated property damage during recent California wildfires and the not-infrequent earthquakes and mudslides.

              This whole Palmdale situation is inane, insane, and way beyond the term "reasonable" .

              Beyond staying out of the way (as in "lead, follow, or get out of my way"), what can I do to help? I do not see much support coming from the FCC during this transition between administrations.

              I presume this discussion is on other online forums beyond ScoutRadio but I haven't seen the topic raised until now on this forum. We on ScoutRadio are limited in numbers but given our credentials as dedicated Scouters, we should be able to pass along the word to larger groups such as the Kenwood 2000 Group http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/KenwoodTS- 2000/ (4200 members) and Radio Modifications Group http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/RadioModif ications/ (9800 members). If nothing else, if a legal defense fund is established, to whom do we send funds?

              73 and YIS,
              Fred Stevens K2FRD

              At 12:34 AM +0000 12/12/08, ScoutRadio@yahoogro ups.com wrote:
              >
              >Frankly you should contact your ARRL Division director and the ARRL in Newington, Conn. and find out who is an attorney in your area that
              >works on Ham radio issues. So far from what I'm hearing and seeing, Palmdale CA is in complete
              >violation of Federal Law and I believe may be in violation of California State Law. This is why you need an attorney
              >to sort out where they are in the wrong. They are in the wrong but they will only respond to the legalese that
              >they will understand.
              >
              >73,
              >
              >Bill, W2BSA
              >
              >___________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ __
              >1b. Re: REF: Federal lawsuit over antenna zoning
              > Posted by: "ki4fus@bellsouth. net" ki4fus@bellsouth. net ki4fus
              > Date: Wed Dec 10, 2008 7:42 pm ((PST))
              >
              >
              >The ARRL regulatory people are very aware of this developing legal issue.
              >
              >I also encourage all hams involved to work in coordination with their Section manager and Director. The two PR things you do NOT want to do are
              >(a) have someone go off half-cocked and end up looking foolish (b) get into a general debate with citizens about if antennas look good or bad.
              >It is a legal issue and needs to be handled that way.
              >
              >
              >
              >Allen G Pitts, W1AGP
              >Media & PR Manager
              >ARRL - the national association for Amateur Radio
              >225 Main St. Newington CT 06111
              >(860) 594-0328
              >apitts@arrl. org
              >
              >___________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ __
              >1c. Re: REF: Federal lawsuit over antenna zoning
              > Posted by: "D.G." indianaj0nes@ yahoo.com indianaj0nes
              > Date: Wed Dec 10, 2008 11:42 pm ((PST))
              >
              >
              >OK, fair enough.
              >
              >This is the new You Tube site dedicated to the Palmdale debacle (N9FAA - me):
              >
              >http://www.youtube. com/user/ n9faa
              >
              >This the City of Palmdale You Tube site:
              >
              >http://www.youtube. com/user/ CityofPalmdale
              >
              >
              >This is the message I sent to the City of Palmdale You Tube administrator.
              >
              >REF: Proposed zoning ordinance against ham radio antennas
              >
              >I have started a dedicated You Tube account to broadcast the progress of the zoning oridance proposal that bans ham radio antennas in Palmdale.
              >
              >One of the videos had 400 hits (yesterday), primarily members of the radio amateur community, worldwide. We have moved the videos to this new, dedicated site. I plan to aggressively market these videos via news groups and mail servers to the ham radio community (750,000 in the United States).
              >
              >Offers are pouring in to help finance a legal attack on this ordinance. I suggest you speak with the City Council about the negative impact this ordinance will have in the eyes of the ham radio community.
              >
              >Thank you.
              >
              >David Sweigert, N9FAA
              >
              >Son of George H. Sweigert, W8ZIS, Inventor of the cordless phone
              >
              >73
              >
              >N9FAA

              Scouters:

               


            • Bruce Harper
              ... Why should hams on this list continue to be spammed with this? I am adamantly against censorship, but I am also not happy with people who step way outside
              Message 6 of 9 , Dec 16, 2008
              • 0 Attachment
                At 11:11 AM -0800 12/15/08, D.G. wrote:
                >
                >Why should hams pay thousands of dollars in court costs to challenge this stupid ordinance when other public affairs options are available?

                Why should hams on this list continue to be spammed with this? I am adamantly against censorship, but I am also not happy with people who step way outside the bounds of a list's purpose or hijack discussions to press forth their own agenda. For Scouts and radio, this is an issue in Palmdale that ties in nicely with the Radio merit badge and the Citizenship in the Community badge. For everyone else, this is too much unrelated info for this Scouts and Radio list. It would be nice if those who are so passionate about Palmdale set up their own Yahoo list and left this list to get back to its main purpose -- promoting amateur radio to and through members of the Boy Scouts. Barring that, perhaps the list owner/moderator could step in and ask that this thread be terminated for running it course and straying off topic.

                Yeah, I could continue to just hit delete, but it is the principle of the thing.

                Bruce in Blacksburg

                --

                Bruce B. Harper KB4GIW bharper@...
                Blacksburg, Virginia 24060 (540)231-4360 - work

                Scoutmaster, Troop 56
                I used to be a Fox and a good ol' Fox too!
              • Bill Stewart - W2BSA
                I must agree with Bruce s point. Several of us have tried without success to nicely get the Palmdale thing to end, it IS a local matter after all. But, I guess
                Message 7 of 9 , Dec 16, 2008
                • 0 Attachment
                  I must agree with Bruce's point. Several of us have tried without success to nicely
                  get the Palmdale thing to end, it IS a local matter after all. But, I guess the time has come
                  to state that this is a group for promoting and teaching ham radio to Scouting and trading ideas on how to do that.
                  Please take the Palmdale thing elsewhere. EHAM.COM and QRZ.COM are great places for promoting
                  the activities of the Palmdale ham antenna issue.

                  Bill Stewart, W2BSA



                  Bruce Harper wrote:

                  At 11:11 AM -0800 12/15/08, D.G. wrote:
                  >
                  >Why should hams pay thousands of dollars in court costs to challenge this stupid ordinance when other public affairs options are available?

                  Why should hams on this list continue to be spammed with this? I am adamantly against censorship, but I am also not happy with people who step way outside the bounds of a list's purpose or hijack discussions to press forth their own agenda. For Scouts and radio, this is an issue in Palmdale that ties in nicely with the Radio merit badge and the Citizenship in the Community badge. For everyone else, this is too much unrelated info for this Scouts and Radio list. It would be nice if those who are so passionate about Palmdale set up their own Yahoo list and left this list to get back to its main purpose -- promoting amateur radio to and through members of the Boy Scouts. Barring that, perhaps the list owner/moderator could step in and ask that this thread be terminated for running it course and straying off topic.

                  Yeah, I could continue to just hit delete, but it is the principle of the thing.

                  Bruce in Blacksburg

                  --

                  Bruce B. Harper KB4GIW bharper@...
                  Blacksburg, Virginia 24060 (540)231-4360 - work

                  Scoutmaster, Troop 56
                  I used to be a Fox and a good ol' Fox too!

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