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RE: Re: [ScoutRadio] Carrying an HT at Philmont

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  • Robert Bruninga
    ... Gordon, I ve written several ideas on radios, FRS and ham radio at camps...have found... http://www.ew.usna.edu/~bruninga/frsnight.html Here is the shacks
    Message 1 of 17 , May 21, 2006
    • 0 Attachment
      >>> vze1u2wn@... 05/21/06 6:57 PM >>>
      >The Radio Chit sounds interesting.can you send the
      >requirements to me?

      Gordon,
      I've written several ideas on radios, FRS and ham radio at camps...have found...
      http://www.ew.usna.edu/~bruninga/frsnight.html

      Here is the shacks at camp stuff...
      http://www.ew.usna.edu/~bruninga/shacks4packs.html

      Ah, there is the link near the bottom of that page:
      http://www.ew.usna.edu/~bruninga/frsplan.txt

      Hummh... but still not the Chit stuff I wrote...
      I donno.... but that last one is close...

      Bob, Wb4APR



      73,

      Gordon Beattie, W2TTT

      201.314.6964

      w2ttt@...

      w2ttt@...

      w2ttt@...



      _____

      From: ScoutRadio@yahoogroups.com [mailto:ScoutRadio@yahoogroups.com] On
      Behalf Of Robert Bruninga
      Sent: Saturday, 20 May, 2006 18:42
      To: fisher_daniel@...; ScoutRadio@yahoogroups.com
      Subject: Re: Re: [ScoutRadio] Carrying an HT at Philmont



      And I'd like to make progress on a Radio Chit.
      Just like a Totin Chip for carrying knife, they
      would have to do the fundamentals of Radio
      communication (IE, learn about callsigns,
      what CTCSS is, and how the channels are shared
      and so forth before they are "allowed" to blab
      on a radio. This is at the cubscout age where
      they want to play radio but just make noises,
      not communicate...

      I wrote up the requiremets for the Radio-Chit, but
      donno where they are right now... Bob, Wb4APR


      >>> fisher_daniel@... 05/20/06 12:05 PM >>>
      Bob,

      I snipped the bottom of your message to conserve space, but kept the
      highlights so others can follow our thread.

      You're right. We must lobby the camps to change their signs. I'm a
      subscriber to "forgiveness is better than permission," which works MOST of
      the time. (Maybe not the best practice for a police officer, eh?) Anyway,
      Amateur Radio is a part of Scouting, whereas PSP, AM/FM, TV, etc. are not.
      So, my philosophy is that if it's good enough for National Jamboree, and if
      we have a Merit Badge for it, and since ARRL and BSA have had a relationship
      since long before I was a member of either, then Amateur Radio is impliedly
      acceptable at Scouting events.

      That being said, you are absolutely right. We do need to get camp policies
      changed, and the RIGHT thing to do is to check ahead of time with camp
      management. We also need to continue to integrate Amateur Radio (and frs)
      with Scouting. I'd like to see every unit have a couple ham scouts &
      scouters, with other unit members using frs. (I'd also like to see peace on
      earth, an end to terrorism, and so on and so forth.) :-)

      One more thing while I'm on my soapbox: I'd love to get Central Florida
      Council to stop having Unversity of Scouting on JOTA weekend. U. of S. is an
      intensive day of training for leaders, who can obtain training on almost any
      facet of training. It's a superb program; it just shouldn't happen on JOTA
      weekend, and they ALWAYS schedule it then, except that last year it was on a
      different weekend.

      Thanks and 73,
      Dan AI4GK

      ============================================================
      From: "Robert Bruninga" <bruninga@...>
      Date: 2006/05/20 Sat AM 10:32:10 EDT
      To: <fisher_daniel@...>, <ScoutRadio@yahoogroups.com>
      Subject: Re: [ScoutRadio] Carrying an HT at Philmont

      >...my theory is that any Scout or adult Scouter who is a
      >ham should bring a radio along to just about any and
      >every event.

      I would modify that receommendation slightly to say:
      "...any scout or adult leader who is a ham should
      check the camp regulations and requirment and
      make sure well before hand to check the words that
      appear in most parental-guidance advisorys to
      the effect of " NO RADIOS OR ELECTRONICS IN CAMP".

      And to begin lobbying NOW and immediatelly to get
      all such references CHANGED to read something like:

      "NO ENTERTAINMENT OR ELECTRONIC RADIOS OR TOYS
      IN CAMP"...





      Check out the UK Radio-Scouting page here at Yahoo!Groups.
      http://groups.yahoo.com/group/radio-scouting-uk

      Now that you've got new licensees in your unit, why not have them subscibe
      to http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ScoutRadioYouth

      Visit "Operation On Target BSA" Mountain Top Signaling:
      http://www.ontargetbsa.org/

      Great list of Scouting/Amateur Radio web sites:
      http://www.k1dwu.net/ham-links/clubs.-.scouting.phtml

      Visit the Adventure Radio Society: http://www.natworld.com/ars/

      ScoutRadio start page:
      http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ScoutRadio (Email archives - member email
      addresses - change your subscription details, etc.)

      Post message: ScoutRadio@yahoogroups.com
      Unsubscribe: ScoutRadio-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
      List owner: ScoutRadio-owner@yahoogroups.com

      SCOUTING and AMATEUR RADIO - FUN FOR ALL AGES
      Yahoo! Groups Links










      Check out the UK Radio-Scouting page here at Yahoo!Groups.
      http://groups.yahoo.com/group/radio-scouting-uk

      Now that you've got new licensees in your unit, why not have them subscibe
      to http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ScoutRadioYouth

      Visit "Operation On Target BSA" Mountain Top Signaling:
      http://www.ontargetbsa.org/

      Great list of Scouting/Amateur Radio web sites:
      http://www.k1dwu.net/ham-links/clubs.-.scouting.phtml

      Visit the Adventure Radio Society: http://www.natworld.com/ars/

      ScoutRadio start page:
      http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ScoutRadio (Email archives - member email
      addresses - change your subscription details, etc.)

      Post message: ScoutRadio@yahoogroups.com
      Unsubscribe: ScoutRadio-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
      List owner: ScoutRadio-owner@yahoogroups.com

      SCOUTING and AMATEUR RADIO - FUN FOR ALL AGES




      SPONSORED LINKS


      Date
      <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Date+idea&w1=Date+idea&w2=Ideas&w3=Radi
      o&w4=Scouter&w5=Outdoors&c=5&s=64&.sig=mCQpztFx1dCxCxZJgKqgvg> idea

      Ideas
      <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Ideas&w1=Date+idea&w2=Ideas&w3=Radio&w4
      =Scouter&w5=Outdoors&c=5&s=64&.sig=sFDpcZH02g8_D_cunMHWvQ>

      Radio
      <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Radio&w1=Date+idea&w2=Ideas&w3=Radio&w4
      =Scouter&w5=Outdoors&c=5&s=64&.sig=rXaAUpc4EgpHkbW-U4ExDQ>


      Scouter
      <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Scouter&w1=Date+idea&w2=Ideas&w3=Radio&
      w4=Scouter&w5=Outdoors&c=5&s=64&.sig=A3BwF8viSzYYm_WfU68EiA>

      Outdoors
      <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Outdoors&w1=Date+idea&w2=Ideas&w3=Radio
      &w4=Scouter&w5=Outdoors&c=5&s=64&.sig=tt2xr8fjVGG_qGcU2eL1fg>





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    • Frank Krizan
      Hi all, Do a search on scoutradio at yahoogroups.com for communicator chit and radio chit . It doesn t contain the actual requirements, but, will give
      Message 2 of 17 , May 21, 2006
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        Hi all,

         

        Do a search on scoutradio at yahoogroups.com for “communicator chit” and “radio chit”.   It doesn’t contain the actual requirements, but, will give those who weren’t part of the original discussion some insight into what was being discussed. 

         

        With Bob’s help, maybe we can resurrect the discussion and come up with something that could be used for training, requirements, and the actual “chit.”

         

        73, Frank

         

         


        From: ScoutRadio@yahoogroups.com [mailto:ScoutRadio@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Robert Bruninga
        Sent: Sunday, May 21, 2006 9:11 PM
        To: vze1u2wn@...; ScoutRadio@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: RE: Re: [ScoutRadio] Carrying an HT at Philmont

         

        >>> vze1u2wn@... 05/21/06 6:57 PM >>>

        >The Radio Chit sounds interesting.can you send the
        >requirements to me?

        Gordon,
        I've written several ideas on radios, FRS and ham radio at camps...have found...
        http://www.ew.usna.edu/~bruninga/frsnight.html

        Here is the shacks at camp stuff...
        http://www.ew.usna.edu/~bruninga/shacks4packs.html

        Ah, there is the link near the bottom of that page:
        http://www.ew.usna.edu/~bruninga/frsplan.txt

        Hummh... but still not the Chit stuff I wrote...
        I donno.... but that last one is close...

        Bob, Wb4APR



        73,

        Gordon Beattie, W2TTT

        201.314.6964

        w2ttt@...

        w2ttt@...

        w2ttt@...



          _____ 

        From: ScoutRadio@yahoogroups.com [mailto:ScoutRadio@yahoogroups.com] On
        Behalf Of Robert Bruninga
        Sent: Saturday, 20 May, 2006 18:42
        To: fisher_daniel@...; ScoutRadio@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: Re: Re: [ScoutRadio] Carrying an HT at Philmont



        And I'd like to make progress on a Radio Chit.
        Just like a Totin Chip for carrying knife, they
        would have to do the fundamentals of Radio
        communication (IE, learn about callsigns,
        what CTCSS is, and how the channels are shared
        and so forth before they are "allowed" to blab
        on a radio.  This is at the cubscout age where
        they want to play radio but just make noises,
        not communicate... 

        I wrote up the requiremets for the Radio-Chit, but
        donno where they are right now...  Bob, Wb4APR


        >>> fisher_daniel@... 05/20/06 12:05 PM >>>
        Bob,

        I snipped the bottom of your message to conserve space, but kept the
        highlights so others can follow our thread.

        You're right. We must lobby the camps to change their signs. I'm a
        subscriber to "forgiveness is better than permission," which works MOST of
        the time. (Maybe not the best practice for a police officer, eh?) Anyway,
        Amateur Radio is a part of Scouting, whereas PSP, AM/FM, TV, etc. are not.
        So, my philosophy is that if it's good enough for National Jamboree, and if
        we have a Merit Badge for it, and since ARRL and BSA have had a relationship
        since long before I was a member of either, then Amateur Radio is impliedly
        acceptable at Scouting events.

        That being said, you are absolutely right. We do need to get camp policies
        changed, and the RIGHT thing to do is to check ahead of time with camp
        management. We also need to continue to integrate Amateur Radio (and frs)
        with Scouting. I'd like to see every unit have a couple ham scouts &
        scouters, with other unit members using frs. (I'd also like to see peace on
        earth, an end to terrorism, and so on and so forth.)  :-)

        One more thing while I'm on my soapbox: I'd love to get Central Florida
        Council to stop having Unversity of Scouting on JOTA weekend. U. of S. is an
        intensive day of training for leaders, who can obtain training on almost any
        facet of training. It's a superb program; it just shouldn't happen on JOTA
        weekend, and they ALWAYS schedule it then, except that last year it was on a
        different weekend.

        Thanks and 73,
        Dan AI4GK

        ============================================================
        From: "Robert Bruninga" <bruninga@...>
        Date: 2006/05/20 Sat AM 10:32:10 EDT
        To: <fisher_daniel@...>,  <ScoutRadio@yahoogroups.com>
        Subject: Re: [ScoutRadio] Carrying an HT at Philmont

        >...my theory is that any Scout or adult Scouter who is a
        >ham should bring a radio along to just about any and
        >every event.

        I would modify that receommendation slightly to say:
        "...any scout or adult leader who is a ham should
        check the camp regulations and requirment and
        make sure well before hand to check the words that
        appear in most parental-guidance advisorys to
        the effect of " NO RADIOS OR ELECTRONICS IN CAMP".

        And to begin lobbying NOW and immediatelly to get
        all such references CHANGED to read something like:

        "NO ENTERTAINMENT OR ELECTRONIC RADIOS OR TOYS
        IN CAMP"...





        Check out the UK Radio-Scouting page here at Yahoo!Groups.
        http://groups.yahoo.com/group/radio-scouting-uk

        Now that you've got new licensees in your unit, why not have them subscibe
        to http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ScoutRadioYouth

        Visit "Operation On Target BSA" Mountain Top Signaling:
        http://www.ontargetbsa.org/

        Great list of Scouting/Amateur Radio web sites:
        http://www.k1dwu.net/ham-links/clubs.-.scouting.phtml

        Visit the Adventure Radio Society: http://www.natworld.com/ars/

        ScoutRadio start page:
        http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ScoutRadio (Email archives - member email
        addresses - change your subscription details, etc.)

        Post message: ScoutRadio@yahoogroups.com
        Unsubscribe:  ScoutRadio-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
        List owner:   ScoutRadio-owner@yahoogroups.com

        SCOUTING and AMATEUR RADIO - FUN FOR ALL AGES
        Yahoo! Groups Links










        Check out the UK Radio-Scouting page here at Yahoo!Groups.
        http://groups.yahoo.com/group/radio-scouting-uk

        Now that you've got new licensees in your unit, why not have them subscibe
        to http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ScoutRadioYouth

        Visit "Operation On Target BSA" Mountain Top Signaling:
        http://www.ontargetbsa.org/

        Great list of Scouting/Amateur Radio web sites:
        http://www.k1dwu.net/ham-links/clubs.-.scouting.phtml

        Visit the Adventure Radio Society: http://www.natworld.com/ars/

        ScoutRadio start page:
        http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ScoutRadio (Email archives - member email
        addresses - change your subscription details, etc.)

        Post message: ScoutRadio@yahoogroups.com
        Unsubscribe:  ScoutRadio-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
        List owner:   ScoutRadio-owner@yahoogroups.com

        SCOUTING and AMATEUR RADIO - FUN FOR ALL AGES




        SPONSORED LINKS


        Date
        <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Date+idea&w1=Date+idea&w2=Ideas&w3=Radi
        o&w4=Scouter&w5=Outdoors&c=5&s=64&.sig=mCQpztFx1dCxCxZJgKqgvg>  idea

        Ideas
        <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Ideas&w1=Date+idea&w2=Ideas&w3=Radio&w4
        =Scouter&w5=Outdoors&c=5&s=64&.sig=sFDpcZH02g8_D_cunMHWvQ> 

        Radio
        <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Radio&w1=Date+idea&w2=Ideas&w3=Radio&w4
        =Scouter&w5=Outdoors&c=5&s=64&.sig=rXaAUpc4EgpHkbW-U4ExDQ> 


        Scouter
        <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Scouter&w1=Date+idea&w2=Ideas&w3=Radio&
        w4=Scouter&w5=Outdoors&c=5&s=64&.sig=A3BwF8viSzYYm_WfU68EiA> 

        Outdoors
        <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Outdoors&w1=Date+idea&w2=Ideas&w3=Radio
        &w4=Scouter&w5=Outdoors&c=5&s=64&.sig=tt2xr8fjVGG_qGcU2eL1fg> 





          _____ 

        YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS



        *      Visit your group "ScoutRadio
        <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ScoutRadio> " on the web.
         
        *      To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
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          _____ 



      • Chris Kelly
        Hello Steve: As another message in this string answered your question, yes do take your radio. When our crew did Philmont in 2004 we found a ham working in the
        Message 3 of 17 , May 21, 2006
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          Hello Steve:
          As another message in this string answered your question, yes
          do take your radio. When our crew did Philmont in 2004
          we found a ham working in the Base Camp dining hall (wearing his callsign)
          and he gave us great info about the evening nets that year.
          Several backcountry camps had hams on the staff and would meet
          (I believe on 146.52 if I remember) each evening at 8 PM. The staffer at Base
          also monitored almost all the time he was off-duty.
          Wear your callsign around basecamp and advertize that you are hams,
          to help meet other hams. Everyone is pretty busy but the callsign will
          probably grab another ham's attention and you can learn what's up this year.
          Conserve battery power and operate evenings, there are few places
          to recharge anything, but you will probably find some ham operations
          there among the staffers.
          73 and have a good trek,
          Chris Kelly, K0PF
        • Chris Kelly
          Additional Considerations upon further thought: 1. Philmont is an experience almost unique, in that you really get away from phones, news, wars, scandals,
          Message 4 of 17 , May 22, 2006
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            Additional Considerations upon further thought:

            1. Philmont is an experience almost unique, in that you really get away
            from phones, news, wars, scandals, computers, politics, etc for two weeks.
            Don't let the HT detract from that experience.
            I believe we turned on our HT (one for the whole crew, which had three
            hams) about 3 times during the trek, in the evenings.
            It was some comfort against accident, because we may be able to get
            help more quickly if we reached someone by radio from the back country, but
            the
            staffed camps are not that far apart, and are the normal first place to go
            for help.
            The only other use was in celebrating the ascent of Mount Phillips, where we
            talked to a ham in Angelfire via the Angelfire repeater.

            2. Consider the weight seriously. The last two days of our trek (very long
            days with a couple thousand feet elevation gain/loss) I was wishing
            I hadn't brought the weight of those three extra postage stamps! At
            equipment shakeout on checkin you will be urged to reduce weight every
            possible way.
            Our crew shared our sunscreen, duct tape, and almost everything
            except underwear so we would only have to carry one of each item.
            (We immediately shed SOME of the cooking pots they checked out to us.)
            Lightweight cameras are worth it, radios are a tradeoff you have to make,
            and should be based on your willingness/ability to carry that weight for
            however many miles you plan to hike.

            I don't change my opinion of "yes", but I wanted to further discuss the
            issues surrounding the question (besides, it was Ted WB0TSX that
            carried the radio, not me!)

            73,
            Chris Kelly, K0PF
          • Gary Wilson
            ... Bob: While in my 35 years of Scouting, I ve never seen any kid told that they can t bring a ham radio to camp, there s probably a better way to get the
            Message 5 of 17 , May 22, 2006
            • 0 Attachment
              --- In ScoutRadio@yahoogroups.com, "Robert Bruninga" <bruninga@...>
              wrote:
              >
              > And to begin lobbying NOW and immediatelly to get
              > all such references CHANGED to read something like:
              >
              > "NO ENTERTAINMENT OR ELECTRONIC RADIOS OR TOYS
              > IN CAMP"...
              >
              > Because we want to make sure that ALL scouts and
              > leaders are WELCOME to bring their HAM radios
              >
              > Good luck. It takes a lot of effort to get these
              > words changed....

              Bob:

              While in my 35 years of Scouting, I've never seen any kid told that
              they can't bring a ham radio to camp, there's probably a better way
              to get the message out than trying to lobby 300 councils and 100,000
              units about their individual rules that might inadvertantly
              proscribe HT's.

              I suggest you bring it up with Mike Brown, WB2JWD, who as author of
              the Radio Merit Badge pamphlet and coordinator of the K2BSA effort
              at the National Jamboree, has a bit of influence at National Council.

              Perhaps he could have the desirablity of units having back-up
              emergency communications such as Ham HT's added to the "Guide to
              Safe Scouting" which all councils and units must follow. The Guide
              to Safe Scouting is updated about every two years. The bulletins to
              National Jamboree contingent leaders always tell hams to bring their
              HT's along, so it's just expanding Jamboree practice to home troops
              and councils. And that is one of the functions of the Jamboree.

              That way we could also promote the positive aspects of Amateur Radio
              to everyone who reads the national publication, instead of acting
              like folks who are looking for some special dispensation from a
              local rule.

              73 & YIS,

              Gary Wilson, K2GW
              Unit Commissioner
              Central New Jersey Council, BSA
            • Stephen M. Shearer
              Dan, You could look at UofS and JOTA on the same weekend as an opportunity to spread the RADIO message to BSA. Set up a JOTA station at the University of
              Message 6 of 17 , May 24, 2006
              • 0 Attachment
                Dan,

                You could look at UofS and JOTA on the same weekend as an opportunity to
                spread the RADIO message to BSA. Set up a JOTA station at the University of
                Scouting event and make it part of the activities.

                73, Steve WB3LGC

                -----Original Message-----
                From: ScoutRadio@yahoogroups.com [mailto:ScoutRadio@yahoogroups.com] On
                Behalf Of fisher_daniel@...
                Sent: Saturday, May 20, 2006 12:06 PM
                To: ScoutRadio@yahoogroups.com
                Subject: Re: Re: [ScoutRadio] Carrying an HT at Philmont

                <snip>
                One more thing while I'm on my soapbox: I'd love to get Central Florida
                Council to stop having Unversity of Scouting on JOTA weekend. U. of S. is an
                intensive day of training for leaders, who can obtain training on almost any
                facet of training. It's a superb program; it just shouldn't happen on JOTA
                weekend, and they ALWAYS schedule it then, except that last year it was on a
                different weekend.

                Thanks and 73,
                Dan AI4GK
              • fisher_daniel@bellsouth.net
                Steve, I ve thought of that. However, that leaves me having to find someone to get the kids on the air. Since U of S is in Winter Park, which is in the Orlando
                Message 7 of 17 , May 25, 2006
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                  Steve,

                  I've thought of that. However, that leaves me having to find someone to get the kids on the air. Since U of S is in Winter Park, which is in the Orlando metro area, perhaps I can get someone from one of the clubs there to set up a station where the leaders can talk to the Scouts over here. (We're about 80 miles from where U of S is being held.)

                  73, Dan AI4GK

                  ============================================================
                  From: "Stephen M. Shearer" <wb3lgc@...>
                  Date: 2006/05/24 Wed PM 05:05:54 EDT
                  To: <ScoutRadio@yahoogroups.com>
                  Subject: RE: Re: [ScoutRadio] Carrying an HT at Philmont

                  Dan,

                  You could look at UofS and JOTA on the same weekend as an opportunity to
                  spread the RADIO message to BSA. Set up a JOTA station at the University of
                  Scouting event and make it part of the activities.

                  73, Steve WB3LGC

                  -----Original Message-----
                  From: ScoutRadio@yahoogroups.com [mailto:ScoutRadio@yahoogroups.com] On
                  Behalf Of fisher_daniel@...
                  Sent: Saturday, May 20, 2006 12:06 PM
                  To: ScoutRadio@yahoogroups.com
                  Subject: Re: Re: [ScoutRadio] Carrying an HT at Philmont

                  <snip>
                  One more thing while I'm on my soapbox: I'd love to get Central Florida
                  Council to stop having Unversity of Scouting on JOTA weekend. U. of S. is an
                  intensive day of training for leaders, who can obtain training on almost any
                  facet of training. It's a superb program; it just shouldn't happen on JOTA
                  weekend, and they ALWAYS schedule it then, except that last year it was on a
                  different weekend.

                  Thanks and 73,
                  Dan AI4GK









                  Check out the UK Radio-Scouting page here at Yahoo!Groups. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/radio-scouting-uk

                  Now that you've got new licensees in your unit, why not have them subscibe to http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ScoutRadioYouth

                  Visit "Operation On Target BSA" Mountain Top Signaling:
                  http://www.ontargetbsa.org/

                  Great list of Scouting/Amateur Radio web sites:
                  http://www.k1dwu.net/ham-links/clubs.-.scouting.phtml

                  Visit the Adventure Radio Society: http://www.natworld.com/ars/

                  ScoutRadio start page:
                  http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ScoutRadio (Email archives - member email addresses - change your subscription details, etc.)

                  Post message: ScoutRadio@yahoogroups.com
                  Unsubscribe: ScoutRadio-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                  List owner: ScoutRadio-owner@yahoogroups.com

                  SCOUTING and AMATEUR RADIO - FUN FOR ALL AGES
                  Yahoo! Groups Links






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