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RE: [ScoutRadio] Carrying an HT at Philmont

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  • J. Gordon Beattie, Jr., W2TTT
    Hi Folks, I m always bring all kinds of radio equipment for the Cub Scout Bear Radio Elective , Webelos Communicator and Boy Scout Radio MB to Camp and have
    Message 1 of 17 , May 21, 2006

      Hi Folks,

       

      I’m always bring all kinds of radio equipment for the Cub Scout Bear “Radio Elective”, Webelos Communicator and Boy Scout Radio MB to Camp and have never had a problem. 

      In fact, it is always welcomed as an “add-on” program highlight or a program activity for those who need something special or different to whatever else is going on.  Often it is built into our unit, District or Council activities.

       

      I’ve been on trek at Philmont in 2001 and 2005 with an HT that also was my weather/bc radio with no troubles.  These rules are designed to make sure that you don’t have a youth or adult walking on the trial and unable to hear sounds of the wilderness with the added possibility of missing a call for help because of earbuds!  These are more tools designed to re-enforce good wilderness and crew behavior when some Scouts “don’t get it”.  It saves the Crew Chief and the Advisors lots of aggravation when there is a young man or a parent who want to “do their own thing”.   A Philmont Crew is not the place for such things.  

       

      At the Scouts’ request, our trek in 2005 included an on-trail activity of the Radio Merit Badge in short sessions and the kids loved it.  We did almost 90 miles, did all the normal trail activities and when time permitted, the Crew Chief would ask that we provide this additional opportunity.   In addition to a demanding pre-trek training regime (a short 550 ft down and up hike, a twenty miler and two fifteen mile, two night backpacking trips, the boys of this crew asked for GPS training and Radio MB, so we arranged to provide them with the opportunity.  When coupled with normal tweaking of map and compass skills, group bonding activities, and other “soft skill” training, these boys who varied quite a bit in initial skill level  all completed the Radio, Hiking, and Backpacking Merit Badges in the year or so that included their Philmont Trek.

       

      As an advisor, I had great pleasure in following these boys on trek and only having to ask how I can be helpful and what their plan was during the whole trek.  It was AMAZING!  

      I never had to ask about focus, discipline or correct anything they did for the entire time!

       

      So read these rules with some care and common sense.  If nothing else, in various BSA Trekking materials, they call for the use of communications equipment, so read and apply these rules with prudence and your Scouts and Scouters will have a “Mountain-Top” experience!

       

      YIS & 73,

      Gordon Beattie, W2TTT

      201.314.6964

      w2ttt@...

      w2ttt@...

      w2ttt@...

       


      From: ScoutRadio@yahoogroups.com [mailto: ScoutRadio@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of Robert Bruninga
      Sent: Saturday, 20 May, 2006 10:32
      To: fisher_daniel@...; ScoutRadio@yahoogroups.com
      Subject: Re: [ScoutRadio] Carrying an HT at Philmont

       

      >...my theory is that any Scout or adult Scouter who is a

      >ham should bring a radio along to just about any and
      >every event.

      I would modify that receommendation slightly to say:
      "...any scout or adult leader who is a ham should
      check the camp regulations and requirment and
      make sure well before hand to check the words that
      appear in most parental-guidance advisorys to
      the effect of " NO RADIOS OR ELECTRONICS IN CAMP".

      And to begin lobbying NOW and immediatelly to get
      all such references CHANGED to read something like:

      "NO ENTERTAINMENT OR ELECTRONIC RADIOS OR TOYS
      IN CAMP"...

      Because we want to make sure that ALL scouts and
      leaders are WELCOME to bring their HAM radios
      and also to bring FRS radios.   And with the FRS
      radios that we hams teach proper radio etiquette
      and procedures.

      We just must get the words "NO RADIOS... IN CAMP"
      modified.  It appears in every scout camp and
      school camp and church camp literature that I have seen.
      ANd we must work to get this changed.  Those
      words are put in there by clueless individuals who
      do want to properly exclude boom boxes and video
      games, but they do not realize what else they
      are excluding.

      When I talked to my council, they said, "of course,
      Ham radio or FRS are not included".  But I said,
      "then change the words"!.  Do NOT put the parents
      in the position of having to "violate the written
      rule" because they think they know better.  Just
      re-word the stupid rule....

      Good luck.  It takes a lot of effort to get these
      words changed....

      Bob, Wb4APR

    • J. Gordon Beattie, Jr., W2TTT
      Bob, The Radio Chit sounds interesting.can you send the requirements to me? Our Troop has two Scouts who are licensed Hams and we are about to have several
      Message 2 of 17 , May 21, 2006

        Bob,

        The Radio Chit sounds interesting…can you send the requirements to me?

        Our Troop has two Scouts who are licensed Hams and we are about to have several more.

         

        73,

        Gordon Beattie, W2TTT

        201.314.6964

        w2ttt@...

        w2ttt@...

        w2ttt@...

         


        From: ScoutRadio@yahoogroups.com [mailto: ScoutRadio@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of Robert Bruninga
        Sent: Saturday, 20 May, 2006 18:42
        To: fisher_daniel@...; ScoutRadio@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: Re: Re: [ScoutRadio] Carrying an HT at Philmont

         

        And I'd like to make progress on a Radio Chit.
        Just like a Totin Chip for carrying knife, they
        would have to do the fundamentals of Radio
        communication (IE, learn about callsigns,
        what CTCSS is, and how the channels are shared
        and so forth before they are "allowed" to blab
        on a radio.  This is at the cubscout age where
        they want to play radio but just make noises,
        not communicate... 

        I wrote up the requiremets for the Radio-Chit, but
        donno where they are right now...  Bob, Wb4APR


        >>> fisher_daniel@... 05/20/06 12:05 PM >>>
        Bob,

        I snipped the bottom of your message to conserve space, but kept the highlights so others can follow our thread.

        You're right. We must lobby the camps to change their signs. I'm a subscriber to "forgiveness is better than permission," which works MOST of the time. (Maybe not the best practice for a police officer, eh?) Anyway, Amateur Radio is a part of Scouting, whereas PSP, AM/FM, TV, etc. are not. So, my philosophy is that if it's good enough for National Jamboree, and if we have a Merit Badge for it, and since ARRL and BSA have had a relationship since long before I was a member of either, then Amateur Radio is impliedly acceptable at Scouting events.

        That being said, you are absolutely right. We do need to get camp policies changed, and the RIGHT thing to do is to check ahead of time with camp management. We also need to continue to integrate Amateur Radio (and frs) with Scouting. I'd like to see every unit have a couple ham scouts & scouters, with other unit members using frs. (I'd also like to see peace on earth, an end to terrorism, and so on and so forth.)  :-)

        One more thing while I'm on my soapbox: I'd love to get Central Florida Council to stop having Unversity of Scouting on JOTA weekend. U. of S. is an intensive day of training for leaders, who can obtain training on almost any facet of training. It's a superb program; it just shouldn't happen on JOTA weekend, and they ALWAYS schedule it then, except that last year it was on a different weekend.

        Thanks and 73,
        Dan AI4GK

        ============================================================
        From: "Robert Bruninga" <bruninga@...>
        Date: 2006/05/20 Sat AM 10:32:10 EDT
        To: <fisher_daniel@...>,  < ScoutRadio@yahoogroups.com >
        Subject: Re: [ScoutRadio] Carrying an HT at Philmont

        >...my theory is that any Scout or adult Scouter who is a
        >ham should bring a radio along to just about any and
        >every event.

        I would modify that receommendation slightly to say:
        "...any scout or adult leader who is a ham should
        check the camp regulations and requirment and
        make sure well before hand to check the words that
        appear in most parental-guidance advisorys to
        the effect of " NO RADIOS OR ELECTRONICS IN CAMP".

        And to begin lobbying NOW and immediatelly to get
        all such references CHANGED to read something like:

        "NO ENTERTAINMENT OR ELECTRONIC RADIOS OR TOYS
        IN CAMP"...





        Check out the UK Radio-Scouting page here at Yahoo!Groups. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/radio-scouting-uk

        Now that you've got new licensees in your unit, why not have them subscibe to http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ScoutRadioYouth

        Visit "Operation On Target BSA" Mountain Top Signaling:
        http://www.ontargetbsa.org/

        Great list of Scouting/Amateur Radio web sites:
        http://www.k1dwu.net/ham-links/clubs.-.scouting.phtml

        Visit the Adventure Radio Society: http://www.natworld.com/ars/

        ScoutRadio start page:
        http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ScoutRadio (Email archives - member email addresses - change your subscription details, etc.)

        Post message: ScoutRadio@yahoogroups.com
        Unsubscribe:  ScoutRadio-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
        List owner:   ScoutRadio-owner@yahoogroups.com

        SCOUTING and AMATEUR RADIO - FUN FOR ALL AGES
        Yahoo! Groups Links









      • J. Gordon Beattie, Jr., W2TTT
        Bob, The Radio Chit sounds interesting.can you send the requirements to me? Our Troop has two Scouts who are licensed Hams and we are about to have several
        Message 3 of 17 , May 21, 2006

          Bob,

          The Radio Chit sounds interesting…can you send the requirements to me?

          Our Troop has two Scouts who are licensed Hams and we are about to have several more.

           

          73,

          Gordon Beattie, W2TTT

          201.314.6964

          w2ttt@...

          w2ttt@...

          w2ttt@...

           


          From: ScoutRadio@yahoogroups.com [mailto: ScoutRadio@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of Robert Bruninga
          Sent: Saturday, 20 May, 2006 18:42
          To: fisher_daniel@...; ScoutRadio@yahoogroups.com
          Subject: Re: Re: [ScoutRadio] Carrying an HT at Philmont

           

          And I'd like to make progress on a Radio Chit.
          Just like a Totin Chip for carrying knife, they
          would have to do the fundamentals of Radio
          communication (IE, learn about callsigns,
          what CTCSS is, and how the channels are shared
          and so forth before they are "allowed" to blab
          on a radio.  This is at the cubscout age where
          they want to play radio but just make noises,
          not communicate... 

          I wrote up the requiremets for the Radio-Chit, but
          donno where they are right now...  Bob, Wb4APR


          >>> fisher_daniel@... 05/20/06 12:05 PM >>>
          Bob,

          I snipped the bottom of your message to conserve space, but kept the highlights so others can follow our thread.

          You're right. We must lobby the camps to change their signs. I'm a subscriber to "forgiveness is better than permission," which works MOST of the time. (Maybe not the best practice for a police officer, eh?) Anyway, Amateur Radio is a part of Scouting, whereas PSP, AM/FM, TV, etc. are not. So, my philosophy is that if it's good enough for National Jamboree, and if we have a Merit Badge for it, and since ARRL and BSA have had a relationship since long before I was a member of either, then Amateur Radio is impliedly acceptable at Scouting events.

          That being said, you are absolutely right. We do need to get camp policies changed, and the RIGHT thing to do is to check ahead of time with camp management. We also need to continue to integrate Amateur Radio (and frs) with Scouting. I'd like to see every unit have a couple ham scouts & scouters, with other unit members using frs. (I'd also like to see peace on earth, an end to terrorism, and so on and so forth.)  :-)

          One more thing while I'm on my soapbox: I'd love to get Central Florida Council to stop having Unversity of Scouting on JOTA weekend. U. of S. is an intensive day of training for leaders, who can obtain training on almost any facet of training. It's a superb program; it just shouldn't happen on JOTA weekend, and they ALWAYS schedule it then, except that last year it was on a different weekend.

          Thanks and 73,
          Dan AI4GK

          ============================================================
          From: "Robert Bruninga" <bruninga@...>
          Date: 2006/05/20 Sat AM 10:32:10 EDT
          To: <fisher_daniel@...>,  < ScoutRadio@yahoogroups.com >
          Subject: Re: [ScoutRadio] Carrying an HT at Philmont

          >...my theory is that any Scout or adult Scouter who is a
          >ham should bring a radio along to just about any and
          >every event.

          I would modify that receommendation slightly to say:
          "...any scout or adult leader who is a ham should
          check the camp regulations and requirment and
          make sure well before hand to check the words that
          appear in most parental-guidance advisorys to
          the effect of " NO RADIOS OR ELECTRONICS IN CAMP".

          And to begin lobbying NOW and immediatelly to get
          all such references CHANGED to read something like:

          "NO ENTERTAINMENT OR ELECTRONIC RADIOS OR TOYS
          IN CAMP"...





          Check out the UK Radio-Scouting page here at Yahoo!Groups. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/radio-scouting-uk

          Now that you've got new licensees in your unit, why not have them subscibe to http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ScoutRadioYouth

          Visit "Operation On Target BSA" Mountain Top Signaling:
          http://www.ontargetbsa.org/

          Great list of Scouting/Amateur Radio web sites:
          http://www.k1dwu.net/ham-links/clubs.-.scouting.phtml

          Visit the Adventure Radio Society: http://www.natworld.com/ars/

          ScoutRadio start page:
          http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ScoutRadio (Email archives - member email addresses - change your subscription details, etc.)

          Post message: ScoutRadio@yahoogroups.com
          Unsubscribe:  ScoutRadio-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
          List owner:   ScoutRadio-owner@yahoogroups.com

          SCOUTING and AMATEUR RADIO - FUN FOR ALL AGES
          Yahoo! Groups Links









        • Robert Bruninga
          ... Gordon, I ve written several ideas on radios, FRS and ham radio at camps...have found... http://www.ew.usna.edu/~bruninga/frsnight.html Here is the shacks
          Message 4 of 17 , May 21, 2006
            >>> vze1u2wn@... 05/21/06 6:57 PM >>>
            >The Radio Chit sounds interesting.can you send the
            >requirements to me?

            Gordon,
            I've written several ideas on radios, FRS and ham radio at camps...have found...
            http://www.ew.usna.edu/~bruninga/frsnight.html

            Here is the shacks at camp stuff...
            http://www.ew.usna.edu/~bruninga/shacks4packs.html

            Ah, there is the link near the bottom of that page:
            http://www.ew.usna.edu/~bruninga/frsplan.txt

            Hummh... but still not the Chit stuff I wrote...
            I donno.... but that last one is close...

            Bob, Wb4APR



            73,

            Gordon Beattie, W2TTT

            201.314.6964

            w2ttt@...

            w2ttt@...

            w2ttt@...



            _____

            From: ScoutRadio@yahoogroups.com [mailto:ScoutRadio@yahoogroups.com] On
            Behalf Of Robert Bruninga
            Sent: Saturday, 20 May, 2006 18:42
            To: fisher_daniel@...; ScoutRadio@yahoogroups.com
            Subject: Re: Re: [ScoutRadio] Carrying an HT at Philmont



            And I'd like to make progress on a Radio Chit.
            Just like a Totin Chip for carrying knife, they
            would have to do the fundamentals of Radio
            communication (IE, learn about callsigns,
            what CTCSS is, and how the channels are shared
            and so forth before they are "allowed" to blab
            on a radio. This is at the cubscout age where
            they want to play radio but just make noises,
            not communicate...

            I wrote up the requiremets for the Radio-Chit, but
            donno where they are right now... Bob, Wb4APR


            >>> fisher_daniel@... 05/20/06 12:05 PM >>>
            Bob,

            I snipped the bottom of your message to conserve space, but kept the
            highlights so others can follow our thread.

            You're right. We must lobby the camps to change their signs. I'm a
            subscriber to "forgiveness is better than permission," which works MOST of
            the time. (Maybe not the best practice for a police officer, eh?) Anyway,
            Amateur Radio is a part of Scouting, whereas PSP, AM/FM, TV, etc. are not.
            So, my philosophy is that if it's good enough for National Jamboree, and if
            we have a Merit Badge for it, and since ARRL and BSA have had a relationship
            since long before I was a member of either, then Amateur Radio is impliedly
            acceptable at Scouting events.

            That being said, you are absolutely right. We do need to get camp policies
            changed, and the RIGHT thing to do is to check ahead of time with camp
            management. We also need to continue to integrate Amateur Radio (and frs)
            with Scouting. I'd like to see every unit have a couple ham scouts &
            scouters, with other unit members using frs. (I'd also like to see peace on
            earth, an end to terrorism, and so on and so forth.) :-)

            One more thing while I'm on my soapbox: I'd love to get Central Florida
            Council to stop having Unversity of Scouting on JOTA weekend. U. of S. is an
            intensive day of training for leaders, who can obtain training on almost any
            facet of training. It's a superb program; it just shouldn't happen on JOTA
            weekend, and they ALWAYS schedule it then, except that last year it was on a
            different weekend.

            Thanks and 73,
            Dan AI4GK

            ============================================================
            From: "Robert Bruninga" <bruninga@...>
            Date: 2006/05/20 Sat AM 10:32:10 EDT
            To: <fisher_daniel@...>, <ScoutRadio@yahoogroups.com>
            Subject: Re: [ScoutRadio] Carrying an HT at Philmont

            >...my theory is that any Scout or adult Scouter who is a
            >ham should bring a radio along to just about any and
            >every event.

            I would modify that receommendation slightly to say:
            "...any scout or adult leader who is a ham should
            check the camp regulations and requirment and
            make sure well before hand to check the words that
            appear in most parental-guidance advisorys to
            the effect of " NO RADIOS OR ELECTRONICS IN CAMP".

            And to begin lobbying NOW and immediatelly to get
            all such references CHANGED to read something like:

            "NO ENTERTAINMENT OR ELECTRONIC RADIOS OR TOYS
            IN CAMP"...





            Check out the UK Radio-Scouting page here at Yahoo!Groups.
            http://groups.yahoo.com/group/radio-scouting-uk

            Now that you've got new licensees in your unit, why not have them subscibe
            to http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ScoutRadioYouth

            Visit "Operation On Target BSA" Mountain Top Signaling:
            http://www.ontargetbsa.org/

            Great list of Scouting/Amateur Radio web sites:
            http://www.k1dwu.net/ham-links/clubs.-.scouting.phtml

            Visit the Adventure Radio Society: http://www.natworld.com/ars/

            ScoutRadio start page:
            http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ScoutRadio (Email archives - member email
            addresses - change your subscription details, etc.)

            Post message: ScoutRadio@yahoogroups.com
            Unsubscribe: ScoutRadio-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
            List owner: ScoutRadio-owner@yahoogroups.com

            SCOUTING and AMATEUR RADIO - FUN FOR ALL AGES
            Yahoo! Groups Links










            Check out the UK Radio-Scouting page here at Yahoo!Groups.
            http://groups.yahoo.com/group/radio-scouting-uk

            Now that you've got new licensees in your unit, why not have them subscibe
            to http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ScoutRadioYouth

            Visit "Operation On Target BSA" Mountain Top Signaling:
            http://www.ontargetbsa.org/

            Great list of Scouting/Amateur Radio web sites:
            http://www.k1dwu.net/ham-links/clubs.-.scouting.phtml

            Visit the Adventure Radio Society: http://www.natworld.com/ars/

            ScoutRadio start page:
            http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ScoutRadio (Email archives - member email
            addresses - change your subscription details, etc.)

            Post message: ScoutRadio@yahoogroups.com
            Unsubscribe: ScoutRadio-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
            List owner: ScoutRadio-owner@yahoogroups.com

            SCOUTING and AMATEUR RADIO - FUN FOR ALL AGES




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            o&w4=Scouter&w5=Outdoors&c=5&s=64&.sig=mCQpztFx1dCxCxZJgKqgvg> idea

            Ideas
            <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Ideas&w1=Date+idea&w2=Ideas&w3=Radio&w4
            =Scouter&w5=Outdoors&c=5&s=64&.sig=sFDpcZH02g8_D_cunMHWvQ>

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            =Scouter&w5=Outdoors&c=5&s=64&.sig=rXaAUpc4EgpHkbW-U4ExDQ>


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            w4=Scouter&w5=Outdoors&c=5&s=64&.sig=A3BwF8viSzYYm_WfU68EiA>

            Outdoors
            <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Outdoors&w1=Date+idea&w2=Ideas&w3=Radio
            &w4=Scouter&w5=Outdoors&c=5&s=64&.sig=tt2xr8fjVGG_qGcU2eL1fg>





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            _____
          • Frank Krizan
            Hi all, Do a search on scoutradio at yahoogroups.com for communicator chit and radio chit . It doesn t contain the actual requirements, but, will give
            Message 5 of 17 , May 21, 2006

              Hi all,

               

              Do a search on scoutradio at yahoogroups.com for “communicator chit” and “radio chit”.   It doesn’t contain the actual requirements, but, will give those who weren’t part of the original discussion some insight into what was being discussed. 

               

              With Bob’s help, maybe we can resurrect the discussion and come up with something that could be used for training, requirements, and the actual “chit.”

               

              73, Frank

               

               


              From: ScoutRadio@yahoogroups.com [mailto:ScoutRadio@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Robert Bruninga
              Sent: Sunday, May 21, 2006 9:11 PM
              To: vze1u2wn@...; ScoutRadio@yahoogroups.com
              Subject: RE: Re: [ScoutRadio] Carrying an HT at Philmont

               

              >>> vze1u2wn@... 05/21/06 6:57 PM >>>

              >The Radio Chit sounds interesting.can you send the
              >requirements to me?

              Gordon,
              I've written several ideas on radios, FRS and ham radio at camps...have found...
              http://www.ew.usna.edu/~bruninga/frsnight.html

              Here is the shacks at camp stuff...
              http://www.ew.usna.edu/~bruninga/shacks4packs.html

              Ah, there is the link near the bottom of that page:
              http://www.ew.usna.edu/~bruninga/frsplan.txt

              Hummh... but still not the Chit stuff I wrote...
              I donno.... but that last one is close...

              Bob, Wb4APR



              73,

              Gordon Beattie, W2TTT

              201.314.6964

              w2ttt@...

              w2ttt@...

              w2ttt@...



                _____ 

              From: ScoutRadio@yahoogroups.com [mailto:ScoutRadio@yahoogroups.com] On
              Behalf Of Robert Bruninga
              Sent: Saturday, 20 May, 2006 18:42
              To: fisher_daniel@...; ScoutRadio@yahoogroups.com
              Subject: Re: Re: [ScoutRadio] Carrying an HT at Philmont



              And I'd like to make progress on a Radio Chit.
              Just like a Totin Chip for carrying knife, they
              would have to do the fundamentals of Radio
              communication (IE, learn about callsigns,
              what CTCSS is, and how the channels are shared
              and so forth before they are "allowed" to blab
              on a radio.  This is at the cubscout age where
              they want to play radio but just make noises,
              not communicate... 

              I wrote up the requiremets for the Radio-Chit, but
              donno where they are right now...  Bob, Wb4APR


              >>> fisher_daniel@... 05/20/06 12:05 PM >>>
              Bob,

              I snipped the bottom of your message to conserve space, but kept the
              highlights so others can follow our thread.

              You're right. We must lobby the camps to change their signs. I'm a
              subscriber to "forgiveness is better than permission," which works MOST of
              the time. (Maybe not the best practice for a police officer, eh?) Anyway,
              Amateur Radio is a part of Scouting, whereas PSP, AM/FM, TV, etc. are not.
              So, my philosophy is that if it's good enough for National Jamboree, and if
              we have a Merit Badge for it, and since ARRL and BSA have had a relationship
              since long before I was a member of either, then Amateur Radio is impliedly
              acceptable at Scouting events.

              That being said, you are absolutely right. We do need to get camp policies
              changed, and the RIGHT thing to do is to check ahead of time with camp
              management. We also need to continue to integrate Amateur Radio (and frs)
              with Scouting. I'd like to see every unit have a couple ham scouts &
              scouters, with other unit members using frs. (I'd also like to see peace on
              earth, an end to terrorism, and so on and so forth.)  :-)

              One more thing while I'm on my soapbox: I'd love to get Central Florida
              Council to stop having Unversity of Scouting on JOTA weekend. U. of S. is an
              intensive day of training for leaders, who can obtain training on almost any
              facet of training. It's a superb program; it just shouldn't happen on JOTA
              weekend, and they ALWAYS schedule it then, except that last year it was on a
              different weekend.

              Thanks and 73,
              Dan AI4GK

              ============================================================
              From: "Robert Bruninga" <bruninga@...>
              Date: 2006/05/20 Sat AM 10:32:10 EDT
              To: <fisher_daniel@...>,  <ScoutRadio@yahoogroups.com>
              Subject: Re: [ScoutRadio] Carrying an HT at Philmont

              >...my theory is that any Scout or adult Scouter who is a
              >ham should bring a radio along to just about any and
              >every event.

              I would modify that receommendation slightly to say:
              "...any scout or adult leader who is a ham should
              check the camp regulations and requirment and
              make sure well before hand to check the words that
              appear in most parental-guidance advisorys to
              the effect of " NO RADIOS OR ELECTRONICS IN CAMP".

              And to begin lobbying NOW and immediatelly to get
              all such references CHANGED to read something like:

              "NO ENTERTAINMENT OR ELECTRONIC RADIOS OR TOYS
              IN CAMP"...





              Check out the UK Radio-Scouting page here at Yahoo!Groups.
              http://groups.yahoo.com/group/radio-scouting-uk

              Now that you've got new licensees in your unit, why not have them subscibe
              to http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ScoutRadioYouth

              Visit "Operation On Target BSA" Mountain Top Signaling:
              http://www.ontargetbsa.org/

              Great list of Scouting/Amateur Radio web sites:
              http://www.k1dwu.net/ham-links/clubs.-.scouting.phtml

              Visit the Adventure Radio Society: http://www.natworld.com/ars/

              ScoutRadio start page:
              http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ScoutRadio (Email archives - member email
              addresses - change your subscription details, etc.)

              Post message: ScoutRadio@yahoogroups.com
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              SCOUTING and AMATEUR RADIO - FUN FOR ALL AGES
              Yahoo! Groups Links










              Check out the UK Radio-Scouting page here at Yahoo!Groups.
              http://groups.yahoo.com/group/radio-scouting-uk

              Now that you've got new licensees in your unit, why not have them subscibe
              to http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ScoutRadioYouth

              Visit "Operation On Target BSA" Mountain Top Signaling:
              http://www.ontargetbsa.org/

              Great list of Scouting/Amateur Radio web sites:
              http://www.k1dwu.net/ham-links/clubs.-.scouting.phtml

              Visit the Adventure Radio Society: http://www.natworld.com/ars/

              ScoutRadio start page:
              http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ScoutRadio (Email archives - member email
              addresses - change your subscription details, etc.)

              Post message: ScoutRadio@yahoogroups.com
              Unsubscribe:  ScoutRadio-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
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            • Chris Kelly
              Hello Steve: As another message in this string answered your question, yes do take your radio. When our crew did Philmont in 2004 we found a ham working in the
              Message 6 of 17 , May 21, 2006
                Hello Steve:
                As another message in this string answered your question, yes
                do take your radio. When our crew did Philmont in 2004
                we found a ham working in the Base Camp dining hall (wearing his callsign)
                and he gave us great info about the evening nets that year.
                Several backcountry camps had hams on the staff and would meet
                (I believe on 146.52 if I remember) each evening at 8 PM. The staffer at Base
                also monitored almost all the time he was off-duty.
                Wear your callsign around basecamp and advertize that you are hams,
                to help meet other hams. Everyone is pretty busy but the callsign will
                probably grab another ham's attention and you can learn what's up this year.
                Conserve battery power and operate evenings, there are few places
                to recharge anything, but you will probably find some ham operations
                there among the staffers.
                73 and have a good trek,
                Chris Kelly, K0PF
              • Chris Kelly
                Additional Considerations upon further thought: 1. Philmont is an experience almost unique, in that you really get away from phones, news, wars, scandals,
                Message 7 of 17 , May 22, 2006
                  Additional Considerations upon further thought:

                  1. Philmont is an experience almost unique, in that you really get away
                  from phones, news, wars, scandals, computers, politics, etc for two weeks.
                  Don't let the HT detract from that experience.
                  I believe we turned on our HT (one for the whole crew, which had three
                  hams) about 3 times during the trek, in the evenings.
                  It was some comfort against accident, because we may be able to get
                  help more quickly if we reached someone by radio from the back country, but
                  the
                  staffed camps are not that far apart, and are the normal first place to go
                  for help.
                  The only other use was in celebrating the ascent of Mount Phillips, where we
                  talked to a ham in Angelfire via the Angelfire repeater.

                  2. Consider the weight seriously. The last two days of our trek (very long
                  days with a couple thousand feet elevation gain/loss) I was wishing
                  I hadn't brought the weight of those three extra postage stamps! At
                  equipment shakeout on checkin you will be urged to reduce weight every
                  possible way.
                  Our crew shared our sunscreen, duct tape, and almost everything
                  except underwear so we would only have to carry one of each item.
                  (We immediately shed SOME of the cooking pots they checked out to us.)
                  Lightweight cameras are worth it, radios are a tradeoff you have to make,
                  and should be based on your willingness/ability to carry that weight for
                  however many miles you plan to hike.

                  I don't change my opinion of "yes", but I wanted to further discuss the
                  issues surrounding the question (besides, it was Ted WB0TSX that
                  carried the radio, not me!)

                  73,
                  Chris Kelly, K0PF
                • Gary Wilson
                  ... Bob: While in my 35 years of Scouting, I ve never seen any kid told that they can t bring a ham radio to camp, there s probably a better way to get the
                  Message 8 of 17 , May 22, 2006
                    --- In ScoutRadio@yahoogroups.com, "Robert Bruninga" <bruninga@...>
                    wrote:
                    >
                    > And to begin lobbying NOW and immediatelly to get
                    > all such references CHANGED to read something like:
                    >
                    > "NO ENTERTAINMENT OR ELECTRONIC RADIOS OR TOYS
                    > IN CAMP"...
                    >
                    > Because we want to make sure that ALL scouts and
                    > leaders are WELCOME to bring their HAM radios
                    >
                    > Good luck. It takes a lot of effort to get these
                    > words changed....

                    Bob:

                    While in my 35 years of Scouting, I've never seen any kid told that
                    they can't bring a ham radio to camp, there's probably a better way
                    to get the message out than trying to lobby 300 councils and 100,000
                    units about their individual rules that might inadvertantly
                    proscribe HT's.

                    I suggest you bring it up with Mike Brown, WB2JWD, who as author of
                    the Radio Merit Badge pamphlet and coordinator of the K2BSA effort
                    at the National Jamboree, has a bit of influence at National Council.

                    Perhaps he could have the desirablity of units having back-up
                    emergency communications such as Ham HT's added to the "Guide to
                    Safe Scouting" which all councils and units must follow. The Guide
                    to Safe Scouting is updated about every two years. The bulletins to
                    National Jamboree contingent leaders always tell hams to bring their
                    HT's along, so it's just expanding Jamboree practice to home troops
                    and councils. And that is one of the functions of the Jamboree.

                    That way we could also promote the positive aspects of Amateur Radio
                    to everyone who reads the national publication, instead of acting
                    like folks who are looking for some special dispensation from a
                    local rule.

                    73 & YIS,

                    Gary Wilson, K2GW
                    Unit Commissioner
                    Central New Jersey Council, BSA
                  • Stephen M. Shearer
                    Dan, You could look at UofS and JOTA on the same weekend as an opportunity to spread the RADIO message to BSA. Set up a JOTA station at the University of
                    Message 9 of 17 , May 24, 2006
                      Dan,

                      You could look at UofS and JOTA on the same weekend as an opportunity to
                      spread the RADIO message to BSA. Set up a JOTA station at the University of
                      Scouting event and make it part of the activities.

                      73, Steve WB3LGC

                      -----Original Message-----
                      From: ScoutRadio@yahoogroups.com [mailto:ScoutRadio@yahoogroups.com] On
                      Behalf Of fisher_daniel@...
                      Sent: Saturday, May 20, 2006 12:06 PM
                      To: ScoutRadio@yahoogroups.com
                      Subject: Re: Re: [ScoutRadio] Carrying an HT at Philmont

                      <snip>
                      One more thing while I'm on my soapbox: I'd love to get Central Florida
                      Council to stop having Unversity of Scouting on JOTA weekend. U. of S. is an
                      intensive day of training for leaders, who can obtain training on almost any
                      facet of training. It's a superb program; it just shouldn't happen on JOTA
                      weekend, and they ALWAYS schedule it then, except that last year it was on a
                      different weekend.

                      Thanks and 73,
                      Dan AI4GK
                    • fisher_daniel@bellsouth.net
                      Steve, I ve thought of that. However, that leaves me having to find someone to get the kids on the air. Since U of S is in Winter Park, which is in the Orlando
                      Message 10 of 17 , May 25, 2006
                        Steve,

                        I've thought of that. However, that leaves me having to find someone to get the kids on the air. Since U of S is in Winter Park, which is in the Orlando metro area, perhaps I can get someone from one of the clubs there to set up a station where the leaders can talk to the Scouts over here. (We're about 80 miles from where U of S is being held.)

                        73, Dan AI4GK

                        ============================================================
                        From: "Stephen M. Shearer" <wb3lgc@...>
                        Date: 2006/05/24 Wed PM 05:05:54 EDT
                        To: <ScoutRadio@yahoogroups.com>
                        Subject: RE: Re: [ScoutRadio] Carrying an HT at Philmont

                        Dan,

                        You could look at UofS and JOTA on the same weekend as an opportunity to
                        spread the RADIO message to BSA. Set up a JOTA station at the University of
                        Scouting event and make it part of the activities.

                        73, Steve WB3LGC

                        -----Original Message-----
                        From: ScoutRadio@yahoogroups.com [mailto:ScoutRadio@yahoogroups.com] On
                        Behalf Of fisher_daniel@...
                        Sent: Saturday, May 20, 2006 12:06 PM
                        To: ScoutRadio@yahoogroups.com
                        Subject: Re: Re: [ScoutRadio] Carrying an HT at Philmont

                        <snip>
                        One more thing while I'm on my soapbox: I'd love to get Central Florida
                        Council to stop having Unversity of Scouting on JOTA weekend. U. of S. is an
                        intensive day of training for leaders, who can obtain training on almost any
                        facet of training. It's a superb program; it just shouldn't happen on JOTA
                        weekend, and they ALWAYS schedule it then, except that last year it was on a
                        different weekend.

                        Thanks and 73,
                        Dan AI4GK









                        Check out the UK Radio-Scouting page here at Yahoo!Groups. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/radio-scouting-uk

                        Now that you've got new licensees in your unit, why not have them subscibe to http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ScoutRadioYouth

                        Visit "Operation On Target BSA" Mountain Top Signaling:
                        http://www.ontargetbsa.org/

                        Great list of Scouting/Amateur Radio web sites:
                        http://www.k1dwu.net/ham-links/clubs.-.scouting.phtml

                        Visit the Adventure Radio Society: http://www.natworld.com/ars/

                        ScoutRadio start page:
                        http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ScoutRadio (Email archives - member email addresses - change your subscription details, etc.)

                        Post message: ScoutRadio@yahoogroups.com
                        Unsubscribe: ScoutRadio-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                        List owner: ScoutRadio-owner@yahoogroups.com

                        SCOUTING and AMATEUR RADIO - FUN FOR ALL AGES
                        Yahoo! Groups Links






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