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Re: Re: [ScoutRadio] Carrying an HT at Philmont

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  • fisher_daniel@bellsouth.net
    Hmmm... I like that idea. A Radio Chit. It would be a rarity, but for those few Cubs with licenses, the license would supersede the Radio Chit, I believe. One
    Message 1 of 17 , May 20, 2006
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      Hmmm... I like that idea. A Radio Chit. It would be a rarity, but for those few Cubs with licenses, the license would supersede the Radio Chit, I believe.

      One good thing in our District is that Keith, KC0DIV, and I have a tremendous amount of latitude with exposing youngsters to Amateur Radio. When we set up stations, it's always a big hit! And, one thing I've noticed firsthand is, as I've seen posted here many times before, the youngsters have a blast with code oscillators and figuring out that they can send messages that way.

      73,
      Dan
      ============================================================
      From: "Robert Bruninga" <bruninga@...>
      Date: 2006/05/20 Sat PM 06:42:29 EDT
      To: <fisher_daniel@...>, <ScoutRadio@yahoogroups.com>
      Subject: Re: Re: [ScoutRadio] Carrying an HT at Philmont

      And I'd like to make progress on a Radio Chit.
      Just like a Totin Chip for carrying knife, they
      would have to do the fundamentals of Radio
      communication (IE, learn about callsigns,
      what CTCSS is, and how the channels are shared
      and so forth before they are "allowed" to blab
      on a radio. This is at the cubscout age where
      they want to play radio but just make noises,
      not communicate...

      I wrote up the requiremets for the Radio-Chit, but
      donno where they are right now... Bob, Wb4APR


      73,
      Dan AI4GK
    • wb0tsx@cs.com
      Yes, take your HT to Philmont! Our crew (1/3 were licensed) was there in 2003 and we were delighted to find a ham community made up of staff members
      Message 2 of 17 , May 21, 2006
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        Yes, take your HT to Philmont!  Our crew (1/3 were licensed) was there in 2003 and we were delighted to find a ham "community" made up of staff members throughout the ranch.  I'm certain the situation changes from year to year, but there was an evening net on 2 meters which we checked into occasionally, and from some of the higher peaks we were able to work the repeater at Angel Fire.

        Enjoy your trek!  We are scheduled to go again in 2007 and we will be taking our rigs with us.


        73 es Good Scouting

        /s/ Ted Black, WB0TSX
        @ Ben Delatour Scout Ranch (w0bsa@...)
      • J. Gordon Beattie, Jr., W2TTT
        Hi Folks, I m always bring all kinds of radio equipment for the Cub Scout Bear Radio Elective , Webelos Communicator and Boy Scout Radio MB to Camp and have
        Message 3 of 17 , May 21, 2006
        • 0 Attachment

          Hi Folks,

           

          I’m always bring all kinds of radio equipment for the Cub Scout Bear “Radio Elective”, Webelos Communicator and Boy Scout Radio MB to Camp and have never had a problem. 

          In fact, it is always welcomed as an “add-on” program highlight or a program activity for those who need something special or different to whatever else is going on.  Often it is built into our unit, District or Council activities.

           

          I’ve been on trek at Philmont in 2001 and 2005 with an HT that also was my weather/bc radio with no troubles.  These rules are designed to make sure that you don’t have a youth or adult walking on the trial and unable to hear sounds of the wilderness with the added possibility of missing a call for help because of earbuds!  These are more tools designed to re-enforce good wilderness and crew behavior when some Scouts “don’t get it”.  It saves the Crew Chief and the Advisors lots of aggravation when there is a young man or a parent who want to “do their own thing”.   A Philmont Crew is not the place for such things.  

           

          At the Scouts’ request, our trek in 2005 included an on-trail activity of the Radio Merit Badge in short sessions and the kids loved it.  We did almost 90 miles, did all the normal trail activities and when time permitted, the Crew Chief would ask that we provide this additional opportunity.   In addition to a demanding pre-trek training regime (a short 550 ft down and up hike, a twenty miler and two fifteen mile, two night backpacking trips, the boys of this crew asked for GPS training and Radio MB, so we arranged to provide them with the opportunity.  When coupled with normal tweaking of map and compass skills, group bonding activities, and other “soft skill” training, these boys who varied quite a bit in initial skill level  all completed the Radio, Hiking, and Backpacking Merit Badges in the year or so that included their Philmont Trek.

           

          As an advisor, I had great pleasure in following these boys on trek and only having to ask how I can be helpful and what their plan was during the whole trek.  It was AMAZING!  

          I never had to ask about focus, discipline or correct anything they did for the entire time!

           

          So read these rules with some care and common sense.  If nothing else, in various BSA Trekking materials, they call for the use of communications equipment, so read and apply these rules with prudence and your Scouts and Scouters will have a “Mountain-Top” experience!

           

          YIS & 73,

          Gordon Beattie, W2TTT

          201.314.6964

          w2ttt@...

          w2ttt@...

          w2ttt@...

           


          From: ScoutRadio@yahoogroups.com [mailto: ScoutRadio@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of Robert Bruninga
          Sent: Saturday, 20 May, 2006 10:32
          To: fisher_daniel@...; ScoutRadio@yahoogroups.com
          Subject: Re: [ScoutRadio] Carrying an HT at Philmont

           

          >...my theory is that any Scout or adult Scouter who is a

          >ham should bring a radio along to just about any and
          >every event.

          I would modify that receommendation slightly to say:
          "...any scout or adult leader who is a ham should
          check the camp regulations and requirment and
          make sure well before hand to check the words that
          appear in most parental-guidance advisorys to
          the effect of " NO RADIOS OR ELECTRONICS IN CAMP".

          And to begin lobbying NOW and immediatelly to get
          all such references CHANGED to read something like:

          "NO ENTERTAINMENT OR ELECTRONIC RADIOS OR TOYS
          IN CAMP"...

          Because we want to make sure that ALL scouts and
          leaders are WELCOME to bring their HAM radios
          and also to bring FRS radios.   And with the FRS
          radios that we hams teach proper radio etiquette
          and procedures.

          We just must get the words "NO RADIOS... IN CAMP"
          modified.  It appears in every scout camp and
          school camp and church camp literature that I have seen.
          ANd we must work to get this changed.  Those
          words are put in there by clueless individuals who
          do want to properly exclude boom boxes and video
          games, but they do not realize what else they
          are excluding.

          When I talked to my council, they said, "of course,
          Ham radio or FRS are not included".  But I said,
          "then change the words"!.  Do NOT put the parents
          in the position of having to "violate the written
          rule" because they think they know better.  Just
          re-word the stupid rule....

          Good luck.  It takes a lot of effort to get these
          words changed....

          Bob, Wb4APR

        • J. Gordon Beattie, Jr., W2TTT
          Bob, The Radio Chit sounds interesting.can you send the requirements to me? Our Troop has two Scouts who are licensed Hams and we are about to have several
          Message 4 of 17 , May 21, 2006
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            Bob,

            The Radio Chit sounds interesting…can you send the requirements to me?

            Our Troop has two Scouts who are licensed Hams and we are about to have several more.

             

            73,

            Gordon Beattie, W2TTT

            201.314.6964

            w2ttt@...

            w2ttt@...

            w2ttt@...

             


            From: ScoutRadio@yahoogroups.com [mailto: ScoutRadio@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of Robert Bruninga
            Sent: Saturday, 20 May, 2006 18:42
            To: fisher_daniel@...; ScoutRadio@yahoogroups.com
            Subject: Re: Re: [ScoutRadio] Carrying an HT at Philmont

             

            And I'd like to make progress on a Radio Chit.
            Just like a Totin Chip for carrying knife, they
            would have to do the fundamentals of Radio
            communication (IE, learn about callsigns,
            what CTCSS is, and how the channels are shared
            and so forth before they are "allowed" to blab
            on a radio.  This is at the cubscout age where
            they want to play radio but just make noises,
            not communicate... 

            I wrote up the requiremets for the Radio-Chit, but
            donno where they are right now...  Bob, Wb4APR


            >>> fisher_daniel@... 05/20/06 12:05 PM >>>
            Bob,

            I snipped the bottom of your message to conserve space, but kept the highlights so others can follow our thread.

            You're right. We must lobby the camps to change their signs. I'm a subscriber to "forgiveness is better than permission," which works MOST of the time. (Maybe not the best practice for a police officer, eh?) Anyway, Amateur Radio is a part of Scouting, whereas PSP, AM/FM, TV, etc. are not. So, my philosophy is that if it's good enough for National Jamboree, and if we have a Merit Badge for it, and since ARRL and BSA have had a relationship since long before I was a member of either, then Amateur Radio is impliedly acceptable at Scouting events.

            That being said, you are absolutely right. We do need to get camp policies changed, and the RIGHT thing to do is to check ahead of time with camp management. We also need to continue to integrate Amateur Radio (and frs) with Scouting. I'd like to see every unit have a couple ham scouts & scouters, with other unit members using frs. (I'd also like to see peace on earth, an end to terrorism, and so on and so forth.)  :-)

            One more thing while I'm on my soapbox: I'd love to get Central Florida Council to stop having Unversity of Scouting on JOTA weekend. U. of S. is an intensive day of training for leaders, who can obtain training on almost any facet of training. It's a superb program; it just shouldn't happen on JOTA weekend, and they ALWAYS schedule it then, except that last year it was on a different weekend.

            Thanks and 73,
            Dan AI4GK

            ============================================================
            From: "Robert Bruninga" <bruninga@...>
            Date: 2006/05/20 Sat AM 10:32:10 EDT
            To: <fisher_daniel@...>,  < ScoutRadio@yahoogroups.com >
            Subject: Re: [ScoutRadio] Carrying an HT at Philmont

            >...my theory is that any Scout or adult Scouter who is a
            >ham should bring a radio along to just about any and
            >every event.

            I would modify that receommendation slightly to say:
            "...any scout or adult leader who is a ham should
            check the camp regulations and requirment and
            make sure well before hand to check the words that
            appear in most parental-guidance advisorys to
            the effect of " NO RADIOS OR ELECTRONICS IN CAMP".

            And to begin lobbying NOW and immediatelly to get
            all such references CHANGED to read something like:

            "NO ENTERTAINMENT OR ELECTRONIC RADIOS OR TOYS
            IN CAMP"...





            Check out the UK Radio-Scouting page here at Yahoo!Groups. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/radio-scouting-uk

            Now that you've got new licensees in your unit, why not have them subscibe to http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ScoutRadioYouth

            Visit "Operation On Target BSA" Mountain Top Signaling:
            http://www.ontargetbsa.org/

            Great list of Scouting/Amateur Radio web sites:
            http://www.k1dwu.net/ham-links/clubs.-.scouting.phtml

            Visit the Adventure Radio Society: http://www.natworld.com/ars/

            ScoutRadio start page:
            http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ScoutRadio (Email archives - member email addresses - change your subscription details, etc.)

            Post message: ScoutRadio@yahoogroups.com
            Unsubscribe:  ScoutRadio-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
            List owner:   ScoutRadio-owner@yahoogroups.com

            SCOUTING and AMATEUR RADIO - FUN FOR ALL AGES
            Yahoo! Groups Links









          • J. Gordon Beattie, Jr., W2TTT
            Bob, The Radio Chit sounds interesting.can you send the requirements to me? Our Troop has two Scouts who are licensed Hams and we are about to have several
            Message 5 of 17 , May 21, 2006
            • 0 Attachment

              Bob,

              The Radio Chit sounds interesting…can you send the requirements to me?

              Our Troop has two Scouts who are licensed Hams and we are about to have several more.

               

              73,

              Gordon Beattie, W2TTT

              201.314.6964

              w2ttt@...

              w2ttt@...

              w2ttt@...

               


              From: ScoutRadio@yahoogroups.com [mailto: ScoutRadio@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of Robert Bruninga
              Sent: Saturday, 20 May, 2006 18:42
              To: fisher_daniel@...; ScoutRadio@yahoogroups.com
              Subject: Re: Re: [ScoutRadio] Carrying an HT at Philmont

               

              And I'd like to make progress on a Radio Chit.
              Just like a Totin Chip for carrying knife, they
              would have to do the fundamentals of Radio
              communication (IE, learn about callsigns,
              what CTCSS is, and how the channels are shared
              and so forth before they are "allowed" to blab
              on a radio.  This is at the cubscout age where
              they want to play radio but just make noises,
              not communicate... 

              I wrote up the requiremets for the Radio-Chit, but
              donno where they are right now...  Bob, Wb4APR


              >>> fisher_daniel@... 05/20/06 12:05 PM >>>
              Bob,

              I snipped the bottom of your message to conserve space, but kept the highlights so others can follow our thread.

              You're right. We must lobby the camps to change their signs. I'm a subscriber to "forgiveness is better than permission," which works MOST of the time. (Maybe not the best practice for a police officer, eh?) Anyway, Amateur Radio is a part of Scouting, whereas PSP, AM/FM, TV, etc. are not. So, my philosophy is that if it's good enough for National Jamboree, and if we have a Merit Badge for it, and since ARRL and BSA have had a relationship since long before I was a member of either, then Amateur Radio is impliedly acceptable at Scouting events.

              That being said, you are absolutely right. We do need to get camp policies changed, and the RIGHT thing to do is to check ahead of time with camp management. We also need to continue to integrate Amateur Radio (and frs) with Scouting. I'd like to see every unit have a couple ham scouts & scouters, with other unit members using frs. (I'd also like to see peace on earth, an end to terrorism, and so on and so forth.)  :-)

              One more thing while I'm on my soapbox: I'd love to get Central Florida Council to stop having Unversity of Scouting on JOTA weekend. U. of S. is an intensive day of training for leaders, who can obtain training on almost any facet of training. It's a superb program; it just shouldn't happen on JOTA weekend, and they ALWAYS schedule it then, except that last year it was on a different weekend.

              Thanks and 73,
              Dan AI4GK

              ============================================================
              From: "Robert Bruninga" <bruninga@...>
              Date: 2006/05/20 Sat AM 10:32:10 EDT
              To: <fisher_daniel@...>,  < ScoutRadio@yahoogroups.com >
              Subject: Re: [ScoutRadio] Carrying an HT at Philmont

              >...my theory is that any Scout or adult Scouter who is a
              >ham should bring a radio along to just about any and
              >every event.

              I would modify that receommendation slightly to say:
              "...any scout or adult leader who is a ham should
              check the camp regulations and requirment and
              make sure well before hand to check the words that
              appear in most parental-guidance advisorys to
              the effect of " NO RADIOS OR ELECTRONICS IN CAMP".

              And to begin lobbying NOW and immediatelly to get
              all such references CHANGED to read something like:

              "NO ENTERTAINMENT OR ELECTRONIC RADIOS OR TOYS
              IN CAMP"...





              Check out the UK Radio-Scouting page here at Yahoo!Groups. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/radio-scouting-uk

              Now that you've got new licensees in your unit, why not have them subscibe to http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ScoutRadioYouth

              Visit "Operation On Target BSA" Mountain Top Signaling:
              http://www.ontargetbsa.org/

              Great list of Scouting/Amateur Radio web sites:
              http://www.k1dwu.net/ham-links/clubs.-.scouting.phtml

              Visit the Adventure Radio Society: http://www.natworld.com/ars/

              ScoutRadio start page:
              http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ScoutRadio (Email archives - member email addresses - change your subscription details, etc.)

              Post message: ScoutRadio@yahoogroups.com
              Unsubscribe:  ScoutRadio-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
              List owner:   ScoutRadio-owner@yahoogroups.com

              SCOUTING and AMATEUR RADIO - FUN FOR ALL AGES
              Yahoo! Groups Links









            • Robert Bruninga
              ... Gordon, I ve written several ideas on radios, FRS and ham radio at camps...have found... http://www.ew.usna.edu/~bruninga/frsnight.html Here is the shacks
              Message 6 of 17 , May 21, 2006
              • 0 Attachment
                >>> vze1u2wn@... 05/21/06 6:57 PM >>>
                >The Radio Chit sounds interesting.can you send the
                >requirements to me?

                Gordon,
                I've written several ideas on radios, FRS and ham radio at camps...have found...
                http://www.ew.usna.edu/~bruninga/frsnight.html

                Here is the shacks at camp stuff...
                http://www.ew.usna.edu/~bruninga/shacks4packs.html

                Ah, there is the link near the bottom of that page:
                http://www.ew.usna.edu/~bruninga/frsplan.txt

                Hummh... but still not the Chit stuff I wrote...
                I donno.... but that last one is close...

                Bob, Wb4APR



                73,

                Gordon Beattie, W2TTT

                201.314.6964

                w2ttt@...

                w2ttt@...

                w2ttt@...



                _____

                From: ScoutRadio@yahoogroups.com [mailto:ScoutRadio@yahoogroups.com] On
                Behalf Of Robert Bruninga
                Sent: Saturday, 20 May, 2006 18:42
                To: fisher_daniel@...; ScoutRadio@yahoogroups.com
                Subject: Re: Re: [ScoutRadio] Carrying an HT at Philmont



                And I'd like to make progress on a Radio Chit.
                Just like a Totin Chip for carrying knife, they
                would have to do the fundamentals of Radio
                communication (IE, learn about callsigns,
                what CTCSS is, and how the channels are shared
                and so forth before they are "allowed" to blab
                on a radio. This is at the cubscout age where
                they want to play radio but just make noises,
                not communicate...

                I wrote up the requiremets for the Radio-Chit, but
                donno where they are right now... Bob, Wb4APR


                >>> fisher_daniel@... 05/20/06 12:05 PM >>>
                Bob,

                I snipped the bottom of your message to conserve space, but kept the
                highlights so others can follow our thread.

                You're right. We must lobby the camps to change their signs. I'm a
                subscriber to "forgiveness is better than permission," which works MOST of
                the time. (Maybe not the best practice for a police officer, eh?) Anyway,
                Amateur Radio is a part of Scouting, whereas PSP, AM/FM, TV, etc. are not.
                So, my philosophy is that if it's good enough for National Jamboree, and if
                we have a Merit Badge for it, and since ARRL and BSA have had a relationship
                since long before I was a member of either, then Amateur Radio is impliedly
                acceptable at Scouting events.

                That being said, you are absolutely right. We do need to get camp policies
                changed, and the RIGHT thing to do is to check ahead of time with camp
                management. We also need to continue to integrate Amateur Radio (and frs)
                with Scouting. I'd like to see every unit have a couple ham scouts &
                scouters, with other unit members using frs. (I'd also like to see peace on
                earth, an end to terrorism, and so on and so forth.) :-)

                One more thing while I'm on my soapbox: I'd love to get Central Florida
                Council to stop having Unversity of Scouting on JOTA weekend. U. of S. is an
                intensive day of training for leaders, who can obtain training on almost any
                facet of training. It's a superb program; it just shouldn't happen on JOTA
                weekend, and they ALWAYS schedule it then, except that last year it was on a
                different weekend.

                Thanks and 73,
                Dan AI4GK

                ============================================================
                From: "Robert Bruninga" <bruninga@...>
                Date: 2006/05/20 Sat AM 10:32:10 EDT
                To: <fisher_daniel@...>, <ScoutRadio@yahoogroups.com>
                Subject: Re: [ScoutRadio] Carrying an HT at Philmont

                >...my theory is that any Scout or adult Scouter who is a
                >ham should bring a radio along to just about any and
                >every event.

                I would modify that receommendation slightly to say:
                "...any scout or adult leader who is a ham should
                check the camp regulations and requirment and
                make sure well before hand to check the words that
                appear in most parental-guidance advisorys to
                the effect of " NO RADIOS OR ELECTRONICS IN CAMP".

                And to begin lobbying NOW and immediatelly to get
                all such references CHANGED to read something like:

                "NO ENTERTAINMENT OR ELECTRONIC RADIOS OR TOYS
                IN CAMP"...





                Check out the UK Radio-Scouting page here at Yahoo!Groups.
                http://groups.yahoo.com/group/radio-scouting-uk

                Now that you've got new licensees in your unit, why not have them subscibe
                to http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ScoutRadioYouth

                Visit "Operation On Target BSA" Mountain Top Signaling:
                http://www.ontargetbsa.org/

                Great list of Scouting/Amateur Radio web sites:
                http://www.k1dwu.net/ham-links/clubs.-.scouting.phtml

                Visit the Adventure Radio Society: http://www.natworld.com/ars/

                ScoutRadio start page:
                http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ScoutRadio (Email archives - member email
                addresses - change your subscription details, etc.)

                Post message: ScoutRadio@yahoogroups.com
                Unsubscribe: ScoutRadio-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                List owner: ScoutRadio-owner@yahoogroups.com

                SCOUTING and AMATEUR RADIO - FUN FOR ALL AGES
                Yahoo! Groups Links










                Check out the UK Radio-Scouting page here at Yahoo!Groups.
                http://groups.yahoo.com/group/radio-scouting-uk

                Now that you've got new licensees in your unit, why not have them subscibe
                to http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ScoutRadioYouth

                Visit "Operation On Target BSA" Mountain Top Signaling:
                http://www.ontargetbsa.org/

                Great list of Scouting/Amateur Radio web sites:
                http://www.k1dwu.net/ham-links/clubs.-.scouting.phtml

                Visit the Adventure Radio Society: http://www.natworld.com/ars/

                ScoutRadio start page:
                http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ScoutRadio (Email archives - member email
                addresses - change your subscription details, etc.)

                Post message: ScoutRadio@yahoogroups.com
                Unsubscribe: ScoutRadio-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                List owner: ScoutRadio-owner@yahoogroups.com

                SCOUTING and AMATEUR RADIO - FUN FOR ALL AGES




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                o&w4=Scouter&w5=Outdoors&c=5&s=64&.sig=mCQpztFx1dCxCxZJgKqgvg> idea

                Ideas
                <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Ideas&w1=Date+idea&w2=Ideas&w3=Radio&w4
                =Scouter&w5=Outdoors&c=5&s=64&.sig=sFDpcZH02g8_D_cunMHWvQ>

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                <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Radio&w1=Date+idea&w2=Ideas&w3=Radio&w4
                =Scouter&w5=Outdoors&c=5&s=64&.sig=rXaAUpc4EgpHkbW-U4ExDQ>


                Scouter
                <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Scouter&w1=Date+idea&w2=Ideas&w3=Radio&
                w4=Scouter&w5=Outdoors&c=5&s=64&.sig=A3BwF8viSzYYm_WfU68EiA>

                Outdoors
                <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Outdoors&w1=Date+idea&w2=Ideas&w3=Radio
                &w4=Scouter&w5=Outdoors&c=5&s=64&.sig=tt2xr8fjVGG_qGcU2eL1fg>





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              • Frank Krizan
                Hi all, Do a search on scoutradio at yahoogroups.com for communicator chit and radio chit . It doesn t contain the actual requirements, but, will give
                Message 7 of 17 , May 21, 2006
                • 0 Attachment

                  Hi all,

                   

                  Do a search on scoutradio at yahoogroups.com for “communicator chit” and “radio chit”.   It doesn’t contain the actual requirements, but, will give those who weren’t part of the original discussion some insight into what was being discussed. 

                   

                  With Bob’s help, maybe we can resurrect the discussion and come up with something that could be used for training, requirements, and the actual “chit.”

                   

                  73, Frank

                   

                   


                  From: ScoutRadio@yahoogroups.com [mailto:ScoutRadio@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Robert Bruninga
                  Sent: Sunday, May 21, 2006 9:11 PM
                  To: vze1u2wn@...; ScoutRadio@yahoogroups.com
                  Subject: RE: Re: [ScoutRadio] Carrying an HT at Philmont

                   

                  >>> vze1u2wn@... 05/21/06 6:57 PM >>>

                  >The Radio Chit sounds interesting.can you send the
                  >requirements to me?

                  Gordon,
                  I've written several ideas on radios, FRS and ham radio at camps...have found...
                  http://www.ew.usna.edu/~bruninga/frsnight.html

                  Here is the shacks at camp stuff...
                  http://www.ew.usna.edu/~bruninga/shacks4packs.html

                  Ah, there is the link near the bottom of that page:
                  http://www.ew.usna.edu/~bruninga/frsplan.txt

                  Hummh... but still not the Chit stuff I wrote...
                  I donno.... but that last one is close...

                  Bob, Wb4APR



                  73,

                  Gordon Beattie, W2TTT

                  201.314.6964

                  w2ttt@...

                  w2ttt@...

                  w2ttt@...



                    _____ 

                  From: ScoutRadio@yahoogroups.com [mailto:ScoutRadio@yahoogroups.com] On
                  Behalf Of Robert Bruninga
                  Sent: Saturday, 20 May, 2006 18:42
                  To: fisher_daniel@...; ScoutRadio@yahoogroups.com
                  Subject: Re: Re: [ScoutRadio] Carrying an HT at Philmont



                  And I'd like to make progress on a Radio Chit.
                  Just like a Totin Chip for carrying knife, they
                  would have to do the fundamentals of Radio
                  communication (IE, learn about callsigns,
                  what CTCSS is, and how the channels are shared
                  and so forth before they are "allowed" to blab
                  on a radio.  This is at the cubscout age where
                  they want to play radio but just make noises,
                  not communicate... 

                  I wrote up the requiremets for the Radio-Chit, but
                  donno where they are right now...  Bob, Wb4APR


                  >>> fisher_daniel@... 05/20/06 12:05 PM >>>
                  Bob,

                  I snipped the bottom of your message to conserve space, but kept the
                  highlights so others can follow our thread.

                  You're right. We must lobby the camps to change their signs. I'm a
                  subscriber to "forgiveness is better than permission," which works MOST of
                  the time. (Maybe not the best practice for a police officer, eh?) Anyway,
                  Amateur Radio is a part of Scouting, whereas PSP, AM/FM, TV, etc. are not.
                  So, my philosophy is that if it's good enough for National Jamboree, and if
                  we have a Merit Badge for it, and since ARRL and BSA have had a relationship
                  since long before I was a member of either, then Amateur Radio is impliedly
                  acceptable at Scouting events.

                  That being said, you are absolutely right. We do need to get camp policies
                  changed, and the RIGHT thing to do is to check ahead of time with camp
                  management. We also need to continue to integrate Amateur Radio (and frs)
                  with Scouting. I'd like to see every unit have a couple ham scouts &
                  scouters, with other unit members using frs. (I'd also like to see peace on
                  earth, an end to terrorism, and so on and so forth.)  :-)

                  One more thing while I'm on my soapbox: I'd love to get Central Florida
                  Council to stop having Unversity of Scouting on JOTA weekend. U. of S. is an
                  intensive day of training for leaders, who can obtain training on almost any
                  facet of training. It's a superb program; it just shouldn't happen on JOTA
                  weekend, and they ALWAYS schedule it then, except that last year it was on a
                  different weekend.

                  Thanks and 73,
                  Dan AI4GK

                  ============================================================
                  From: "Robert Bruninga" <bruninga@...>
                  Date: 2006/05/20 Sat AM 10:32:10 EDT
                  To: <fisher_daniel@...>,  <ScoutRadio@yahoogroups.com>
                  Subject: Re: [ScoutRadio] Carrying an HT at Philmont

                  >...my theory is that any Scout or adult Scouter who is a
                  >ham should bring a radio along to just about any and
                  >every event.

                  I would modify that receommendation slightly to say:
                  "...any scout or adult leader who is a ham should
                  check the camp regulations and requirment and
                  make sure well before hand to check the words that
                  appear in most parental-guidance advisorys to
                  the effect of " NO RADIOS OR ELECTRONICS IN CAMP".

                  And to begin lobbying NOW and immediatelly to get
                  all such references CHANGED to read something like:

                  "NO ENTERTAINMENT OR ELECTRONIC RADIOS OR TOYS
                  IN CAMP"...





                  Check out the UK Radio-Scouting page here at Yahoo!Groups.
                  http://groups.yahoo.com/group/radio-scouting-uk

                  Now that you've got new licensees in your unit, why not have them subscibe
                  to http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ScoutRadioYouth

                  Visit "Operation On Target BSA" Mountain Top Signaling:
                  http://www.ontargetbsa.org/

                  Great list of Scouting/Amateur Radio web sites:
                  http://www.k1dwu.net/ham-links/clubs.-.scouting.phtml

                  Visit the Adventure Radio Society: http://www.natworld.com/ars/

                  ScoutRadio start page:
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                  Check out the UK Radio-Scouting page here at Yahoo!Groups.
                  http://groups.yahoo.com/group/radio-scouting-uk

                  Now that you've got new licensees in your unit, why not have them subscibe
                  to http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ScoutRadioYouth

                  Visit "Operation On Target BSA" Mountain Top Signaling:
                  http://www.ontargetbsa.org/

                  Great list of Scouting/Amateur Radio web sites:
                  http://www.k1dwu.net/ham-links/clubs.-.scouting.phtml

                  Visit the Adventure Radio Society: http://www.natworld.com/ars/

                  ScoutRadio start page:
                  http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ScoutRadio (Email archives - member email
                  addresses - change your subscription details, etc.)

                  Post message: ScoutRadio@yahoogroups.com
                  Unsubscribe:  ScoutRadio-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
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                • Chris Kelly
                  Hello Steve: As another message in this string answered your question, yes do take your radio. When our crew did Philmont in 2004 we found a ham working in the
                  Message 8 of 17 , May 21, 2006
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                    Hello Steve:
                    As another message in this string answered your question, yes
                    do take your radio. When our crew did Philmont in 2004
                    we found a ham working in the Base Camp dining hall (wearing his callsign)
                    and he gave us great info about the evening nets that year.
                    Several backcountry camps had hams on the staff and would meet
                    (I believe on 146.52 if I remember) each evening at 8 PM. The staffer at Base
                    also monitored almost all the time he was off-duty.
                    Wear your callsign around basecamp and advertize that you are hams,
                    to help meet other hams. Everyone is pretty busy but the callsign will
                    probably grab another ham's attention and you can learn what's up this year.
                    Conserve battery power and operate evenings, there are few places
                    to recharge anything, but you will probably find some ham operations
                    there among the staffers.
                    73 and have a good trek,
                    Chris Kelly, K0PF
                  • Chris Kelly
                    Additional Considerations upon further thought: 1. Philmont is an experience almost unique, in that you really get away from phones, news, wars, scandals,
                    Message 9 of 17 , May 22, 2006
                    • 0 Attachment
                      Additional Considerations upon further thought:

                      1. Philmont is an experience almost unique, in that you really get away
                      from phones, news, wars, scandals, computers, politics, etc for two weeks.
                      Don't let the HT detract from that experience.
                      I believe we turned on our HT (one for the whole crew, which had three
                      hams) about 3 times during the trek, in the evenings.
                      It was some comfort against accident, because we may be able to get
                      help more quickly if we reached someone by radio from the back country, but
                      the
                      staffed camps are not that far apart, and are the normal first place to go
                      for help.
                      The only other use was in celebrating the ascent of Mount Phillips, where we
                      talked to a ham in Angelfire via the Angelfire repeater.

                      2. Consider the weight seriously. The last two days of our trek (very long
                      days with a couple thousand feet elevation gain/loss) I was wishing
                      I hadn't brought the weight of those three extra postage stamps! At
                      equipment shakeout on checkin you will be urged to reduce weight every
                      possible way.
                      Our crew shared our sunscreen, duct tape, and almost everything
                      except underwear so we would only have to carry one of each item.
                      (We immediately shed SOME of the cooking pots they checked out to us.)
                      Lightweight cameras are worth it, radios are a tradeoff you have to make,
                      and should be based on your willingness/ability to carry that weight for
                      however many miles you plan to hike.

                      I don't change my opinion of "yes", but I wanted to further discuss the
                      issues surrounding the question (besides, it was Ted WB0TSX that
                      carried the radio, not me!)

                      73,
                      Chris Kelly, K0PF
                    • Gary Wilson
                      ... Bob: While in my 35 years of Scouting, I ve never seen any kid told that they can t bring a ham radio to camp, there s probably a better way to get the
                      Message 10 of 17 , May 22, 2006
                      • 0 Attachment
                        --- In ScoutRadio@yahoogroups.com, "Robert Bruninga" <bruninga@...>
                        wrote:
                        >
                        > And to begin lobbying NOW and immediatelly to get
                        > all such references CHANGED to read something like:
                        >
                        > "NO ENTERTAINMENT OR ELECTRONIC RADIOS OR TOYS
                        > IN CAMP"...
                        >
                        > Because we want to make sure that ALL scouts and
                        > leaders are WELCOME to bring their HAM radios
                        >
                        > Good luck. It takes a lot of effort to get these
                        > words changed....

                        Bob:

                        While in my 35 years of Scouting, I've never seen any kid told that
                        they can't bring a ham radio to camp, there's probably a better way
                        to get the message out than trying to lobby 300 councils and 100,000
                        units about their individual rules that might inadvertantly
                        proscribe HT's.

                        I suggest you bring it up with Mike Brown, WB2JWD, who as author of
                        the Radio Merit Badge pamphlet and coordinator of the K2BSA effort
                        at the National Jamboree, has a bit of influence at National Council.

                        Perhaps he could have the desirablity of units having back-up
                        emergency communications such as Ham HT's added to the "Guide to
                        Safe Scouting" which all councils and units must follow. The Guide
                        to Safe Scouting is updated about every two years. The bulletins to
                        National Jamboree contingent leaders always tell hams to bring their
                        HT's along, so it's just expanding Jamboree practice to home troops
                        and councils. And that is one of the functions of the Jamboree.

                        That way we could also promote the positive aspects of Amateur Radio
                        to everyone who reads the national publication, instead of acting
                        like folks who are looking for some special dispensation from a
                        local rule.

                        73 & YIS,

                        Gary Wilson, K2GW
                        Unit Commissioner
                        Central New Jersey Council, BSA
                      • Stephen M. Shearer
                        Dan, You could look at UofS and JOTA on the same weekend as an opportunity to spread the RADIO message to BSA. Set up a JOTA station at the University of
                        Message 11 of 17 , May 24, 2006
                        • 0 Attachment
                          Dan,

                          You could look at UofS and JOTA on the same weekend as an opportunity to
                          spread the RADIO message to BSA. Set up a JOTA station at the University of
                          Scouting event and make it part of the activities.

                          73, Steve WB3LGC

                          -----Original Message-----
                          From: ScoutRadio@yahoogroups.com [mailto:ScoutRadio@yahoogroups.com] On
                          Behalf Of fisher_daniel@...
                          Sent: Saturday, May 20, 2006 12:06 PM
                          To: ScoutRadio@yahoogroups.com
                          Subject: Re: Re: [ScoutRadio] Carrying an HT at Philmont

                          <snip>
                          One more thing while I'm on my soapbox: I'd love to get Central Florida
                          Council to stop having Unversity of Scouting on JOTA weekend. U. of S. is an
                          intensive day of training for leaders, who can obtain training on almost any
                          facet of training. It's a superb program; it just shouldn't happen on JOTA
                          weekend, and they ALWAYS schedule it then, except that last year it was on a
                          different weekend.

                          Thanks and 73,
                          Dan AI4GK
                        • fisher_daniel@bellsouth.net
                          Steve, I ve thought of that. However, that leaves me having to find someone to get the kids on the air. Since U of S is in Winter Park, which is in the Orlando
                          Message 12 of 17 , May 25, 2006
                          • 0 Attachment
                            Steve,

                            I've thought of that. However, that leaves me having to find someone to get the kids on the air. Since U of S is in Winter Park, which is in the Orlando metro area, perhaps I can get someone from one of the clubs there to set up a station where the leaders can talk to the Scouts over here. (We're about 80 miles from where U of S is being held.)

                            73, Dan AI4GK

                            ============================================================
                            From: "Stephen M. Shearer" <wb3lgc@...>
                            Date: 2006/05/24 Wed PM 05:05:54 EDT
                            To: <ScoutRadio@yahoogroups.com>
                            Subject: RE: Re: [ScoutRadio] Carrying an HT at Philmont

                            Dan,

                            You could look at UofS and JOTA on the same weekend as an opportunity to
                            spread the RADIO message to BSA. Set up a JOTA station at the University of
                            Scouting event and make it part of the activities.

                            73, Steve WB3LGC

                            -----Original Message-----
                            From: ScoutRadio@yahoogroups.com [mailto:ScoutRadio@yahoogroups.com] On
                            Behalf Of fisher_daniel@...
                            Sent: Saturday, May 20, 2006 12:06 PM
                            To: ScoutRadio@yahoogroups.com
                            Subject: Re: Re: [ScoutRadio] Carrying an HT at Philmont

                            <snip>
                            One more thing while I'm on my soapbox: I'd love to get Central Florida
                            Council to stop having Unversity of Scouting on JOTA weekend. U. of S. is an
                            intensive day of training for leaders, who can obtain training on almost any
                            facet of training. It's a superb program; it just shouldn't happen on JOTA
                            weekend, and they ALWAYS schedule it then, except that last year it was on a
                            different weekend.

                            Thanks and 73,
                            Dan AI4GK









                            Check out the UK Radio-Scouting page here at Yahoo!Groups. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/radio-scouting-uk

                            Now that you've got new licensees in your unit, why not have them subscibe to http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ScoutRadioYouth

                            Visit "Operation On Target BSA" Mountain Top Signaling:
                            http://www.ontargetbsa.org/

                            Great list of Scouting/Amateur Radio web sites:
                            http://www.k1dwu.net/ham-links/clubs.-.scouting.phtml

                            Visit the Adventure Radio Society: http://www.natworld.com/ars/

                            ScoutRadio start page:
                            http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ScoutRadio (Email archives - member email addresses - change your subscription details, etc.)

                            Post message: ScoutRadio@yahoogroups.com
                            Unsubscribe: ScoutRadio-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                            List owner: ScoutRadio-owner@yahoogroups.com

                            SCOUTING and AMATEUR RADIO - FUN FOR ALL AGES
                            Yahoo! Groups Links






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