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Re: [ScoutRadio] Carrying an HT at Philmont

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  • Robert Bruninga
    ... I would modify that receommendation slightly to say: ...any scout or adult leader who is a ham should check the camp regulations and requirment and make
    Message 1 of 17 , May 20, 2006
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      >...my theory is that any Scout or adult Scouter who is a
      >ham should bring a radio along to just about any and
      >every event.

      I would modify that receommendation slightly to say:
      "...any scout or adult leader who is a ham should
      check the camp regulations and requirment and
      make sure well before hand to check the words that
      appear in most parental-guidance advisorys to
      the effect of " NO RADIOS OR ELECTRONICS IN CAMP".

      And to begin lobbying NOW and immediatelly to get
      all such references CHANGED to read something like:

      "NO ENTERTAINMENT OR ELECTRONIC RADIOS OR TOYS
      IN CAMP"...

      Because we want to make sure that ALL scouts and
      leaders are WELCOME to bring their HAM radios
      and also to bring FRS radios. And with the FRS
      radios that we hams teach proper radio etiquette
      and procedures.

      We just must get the words "NO RADIOS... IN CAMP"
      modified. It appears in every scout camp and
      school camp and church camp literature that I have seen.
      ANd we must work to get this changed. Those
      words are put in there by clueless individuals who
      do want to properly exclude boom boxes and video
      games, but they do not realize what else they
      are excluding.

      When I talked to my council, they said, "of course,
      Ham radio or FRS are not included". But I said,
      "then change the words"!. Do NOT put the parents
      in the position of having to "violate the written
      rule" because they think they know better. Just
      re-word the stupid rule....

      Good luck. It takes a lot of effort to get these
      words changed....

      Bob, Wb4APR
    • fisher_daniel@bellsouth.net
      Bob, I snipped the bottom of your message to conserve space, but kept the highlights so others can follow our thread. You re right. We must lobby the camps to
      Message 2 of 17 , May 20, 2006
      • 0 Attachment
        Bob,

        I snipped the bottom of your message to conserve space, but kept the highlights so others can follow our thread.

        You're right. We must lobby the camps to change their signs. I'm a subscriber to "forgiveness is better than permission," which works MOST of the time. (Maybe not the best practice for a police officer, eh?) Anyway, Amateur Radio is a part of Scouting, whereas PSP, AM/FM, TV, etc. are not. So, my philosophy is that if it's good enough for National Jamboree, and if we have a Merit Badge for it, and since ARRL and BSA have had a relationship since long before I was a member of either, then Amateur Radio is impliedly acceptable at Scouting events.

        That being said, you are absolutely right. We do need to get camp policies changed, and the RIGHT thing to do is to check ahead of time with camp management. We also need to continue to integrate Amateur Radio (and frs) with Scouting. I'd like to see every unit have a couple ham scouts & scouters, with other unit members using frs. (I'd also like to see peace on earth, an end to terrorism, and so on and so forth.) :-)

        One more thing while I'm on my soapbox: I'd love to get Central Florida Council to stop having Unversity of Scouting on JOTA weekend. U. of S. is an intensive day of training for leaders, who can obtain training on almost any facet of training. It's a superb program; it just shouldn't happen on JOTA weekend, and they ALWAYS schedule it then, except that last year it was on a different weekend.

        Thanks and 73,
        Dan AI4GK

        ============================================================
        From: "Robert Bruninga" <bruninga@...>
        Date: 2006/05/20 Sat AM 10:32:10 EDT
        To: <fisher_daniel@...>, <ScoutRadio@yahoogroups.com>
        Subject: Re: [ScoutRadio] Carrying an HT at Philmont

        >...my theory is that any Scout or adult Scouter who is a
        >ham should bring a radio along to just about any and
        >every event.

        I would modify that receommendation slightly to say:
        "...any scout or adult leader who is a ham should
        check the camp regulations and requirment and
        make sure well before hand to check the words that
        appear in most parental-guidance advisorys to
        the effect of " NO RADIOS OR ELECTRONICS IN CAMP".

        And to begin lobbying NOW and immediatelly to get
        all such references CHANGED to read something like:

        "NO ENTERTAINMENT OR ELECTRONIC RADIOS OR TOYS
        IN CAMP"...
      • Robert Bruninga
        And I d like to make progress on a Radio Chit. Just like a Totin Chip for carrying knife, they would have to do the fundamentals of Radio communication (IE,
        Message 3 of 17 , May 20, 2006
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          And I'd like to make progress on a Radio Chit.
          Just like a Totin Chip for carrying knife, they
          would have to do the fundamentals of Radio
          communication (IE, learn about callsigns,
          what CTCSS is, and how the channels are shared
          and so forth before they are "allowed" to blab
          on a radio. This is at the cubscout age where
          they want to play radio but just make noises,
          not communicate...

          I wrote up the requiremets for the Radio-Chit, but
          donno where they are right now... Bob, Wb4APR


          >>> fisher_daniel@... 05/20/06 12:05 PM >>>
          Bob,

          I snipped the bottom of your message to conserve space, but kept the highlights so others can follow our thread.

          You're right. We must lobby the camps to change their signs. I'm a subscriber to "forgiveness is better than permission," which works MOST of the time. (Maybe not the best practice for a police officer, eh?) Anyway, Amateur Radio is a part of Scouting, whereas PSP, AM/FM, TV, etc. are not. So, my philosophy is that if it's good enough for National Jamboree, and if we have a Merit Badge for it, and since ARRL and BSA have had a relationship since long before I was a member of either, then Amateur Radio is impliedly acceptable at Scouting events.

          That being said, you are absolutely right. We do need to get camp policies changed, and the RIGHT thing to do is to check ahead of time with camp management. We also need to continue to integrate Amateur Radio (and frs) with Scouting. I'd like to see every unit have a couple ham scouts & scouters, with other unit members using frs. (I'd also like to see peace on earth, an end to terrorism, and so on and so forth.) :-)

          One more thing while I'm on my soapbox: I'd love to get Central Florida Council to stop having Unversity of Scouting on JOTA weekend. U. of S. is an intensive day of training for leaders, who can obtain training on almost any facet of training. It's a superb program; it just shouldn't happen on JOTA weekend, and they ALWAYS schedule it then, except that last year it was on a different weekend.

          Thanks and 73,
          Dan AI4GK

          ============================================================
          From: "Robert Bruninga" <bruninga@...>
          Date: 2006/05/20 Sat AM 10:32:10 EDT
          To: <fisher_daniel@...>, <ScoutRadio@yahoogroups.com>
          Subject: Re: [ScoutRadio] Carrying an HT at Philmont

          >...my theory is that any Scout or adult Scouter who is a
          >ham should bring a radio along to just about any and
          >every event.

          I would modify that receommendation slightly to say:
          "...any scout or adult leader who is a ham should
          check the camp regulations and requirment and
          make sure well before hand to check the words that
          appear in most parental-guidance advisorys to
          the effect of " NO RADIOS OR ELECTRONICS IN CAMP".

          And to begin lobbying NOW and immediatelly to get
          all such references CHANGED to read something like:

          "NO ENTERTAINMENT OR ELECTRONIC RADIOS OR TOYS
          IN CAMP"...





          Check out the UK Radio-Scouting page here at Yahoo!Groups. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/radio-scouting-uk

          Now that you've got new licensees in your unit, why not have them subscibe to http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ScoutRadioYouth

          Visit "Operation On Target BSA" Mountain Top Signaling:
          http://www.ontargetbsa.org/

          Great list of Scouting/Amateur Radio web sites:
          http://www.k1dwu.net/ham-links/clubs.-.scouting.phtml

          Visit the Adventure Radio Society: http://www.natworld.com/ars/

          ScoutRadio start page:
          http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ScoutRadio (Email archives - member email addresses - change your subscription details, etc.)

          Post message: ScoutRadio@yahoogroups.com
          Unsubscribe: ScoutRadio-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
          List owner: ScoutRadio-owner@yahoogroups.com

          SCOUTING and AMATEUR RADIO - FUN FOR ALL AGES
          Yahoo! Groups Links
        • fisher_daniel@bellsouth.net
          Hmmm... I like that idea. A Radio Chit. It would be a rarity, but for those few Cubs with licenses, the license would supersede the Radio Chit, I believe. One
          Message 4 of 17 , May 20, 2006
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            Hmmm... I like that idea. A Radio Chit. It would be a rarity, but for those few Cubs with licenses, the license would supersede the Radio Chit, I believe.

            One good thing in our District is that Keith, KC0DIV, and I have a tremendous amount of latitude with exposing youngsters to Amateur Radio. When we set up stations, it's always a big hit! And, one thing I've noticed firsthand is, as I've seen posted here many times before, the youngsters have a blast with code oscillators and figuring out that they can send messages that way.

            73,
            Dan
            ============================================================
            From: "Robert Bruninga" <bruninga@...>
            Date: 2006/05/20 Sat PM 06:42:29 EDT
            To: <fisher_daniel@...>, <ScoutRadio@yahoogroups.com>
            Subject: Re: Re: [ScoutRadio] Carrying an HT at Philmont

            And I'd like to make progress on a Radio Chit.
            Just like a Totin Chip for carrying knife, they
            would have to do the fundamentals of Radio
            communication (IE, learn about callsigns,
            what CTCSS is, and how the channels are shared
            and so forth before they are "allowed" to blab
            on a radio. This is at the cubscout age where
            they want to play radio but just make noises,
            not communicate...

            I wrote up the requiremets for the Radio-Chit, but
            donno where they are right now... Bob, Wb4APR


            73,
            Dan AI4GK
          • wb0tsx@cs.com
            Yes, take your HT to Philmont! Our crew (1/3 were licensed) was there in 2003 and we were delighted to find a ham community made up of staff members
            Message 5 of 17 , May 21, 2006
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              Yes, take your HT to Philmont!  Our crew (1/3 were licensed) was there in 2003 and we were delighted to find a ham "community" made up of staff members throughout the ranch.  I'm certain the situation changes from year to year, but there was an evening net on 2 meters which we checked into occasionally, and from some of the higher peaks we were able to work the repeater at Angel Fire.

              Enjoy your trek!  We are scheduled to go again in 2007 and we will be taking our rigs with us.


              73 es Good Scouting

              /s/ Ted Black, WB0TSX
              @ Ben Delatour Scout Ranch (w0bsa@...)
            • J. Gordon Beattie, Jr., W2TTT
              Hi Folks, I m always bring all kinds of radio equipment for the Cub Scout Bear Radio Elective , Webelos Communicator and Boy Scout Radio MB to Camp and have
              Message 6 of 17 , May 21, 2006
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                Hi Folks,

                 

                I’m always bring all kinds of radio equipment for the Cub Scout Bear “Radio Elective”, Webelos Communicator and Boy Scout Radio MB to Camp and have never had a problem. 

                In fact, it is always welcomed as an “add-on” program highlight or a program activity for those who need something special or different to whatever else is going on.  Often it is built into our unit, District or Council activities.

                 

                I’ve been on trek at Philmont in 2001 and 2005 with an HT that also was my weather/bc radio with no troubles.  These rules are designed to make sure that you don’t have a youth or adult walking on the trial and unable to hear sounds of the wilderness with the added possibility of missing a call for help because of earbuds!  These are more tools designed to re-enforce good wilderness and crew behavior when some Scouts “don’t get it”.  It saves the Crew Chief and the Advisors lots of aggravation when there is a young man or a parent who want to “do their own thing”.   A Philmont Crew is not the place for such things.  

                 

                At the Scouts’ request, our trek in 2005 included an on-trail activity of the Radio Merit Badge in short sessions and the kids loved it.  We did almost 90 miles, did all the normal trail activities and when time permitted, the Crew Chief would ask that we provide this additional opportunity.   In addition to a demanding pre-trek training regime (a short 550 ft down and up hike, a twenty miler and two fifteen mile, two night backpacking trips, the boys of this crew asked for GPS training and Radio MB, so we arranged to provide them with the opportunity.  When coupled with normal tweaking of map and compass skills, group bonding activities, and other “soft skill” training, these boys who varied quite a bit in initial skill level  all completed the Radio, Hiking, and Backpacking Merit Badges in the year or so that included their Philmont Trek.

                 

                As an advisor, I had great pleasure in following these boys on trek and only having to ask how I can be helpful and what their plan was during the whole trek.  It was AMAZING!  

                I never had to ask about focus, discipline or correct anything they did for the entire time!

                 

                So read these rules with some care and common sense.  If nothing else, in various BSA Trekking materials, they call for the use of communications equipment, so read and apply these rules with prudence and your Scouts and Scouters will have a “Mountain-Top” experience!

                 

                YIS & 73,

                Gordon Beattie, W2TTT

                201.314.6964

                w2ttt@...

                w2ttt@...

                w2ttt@...

                 


                From: ScoutRadio@yahoogroups.com [mailto: ScoutRadio@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of Robert Bruninga
                Sent: Saturday, 20 May, 2006 10:32
                To: fisher_daniel@...; ScoutRadio@yahoogroups.com
                Subject: Re: [ScoutRadio] Carrying an HT at Philmont

                 

                >...my theory is that any Scout or adult Scouter who is a

                >ham should bring a radio along to just about any and
                >every event.

                I would modify that receommendation slightly to say:
                "...any scout or adult leader who is a ham should
                check the camp regulations and requirment and
                make sure well before hand to check the words that
                appear in most parental-guidance advisorys to
                the effect of " NO RADIOS OR ELECTRONICS IN CAMP".

                And to begin lobbying NOW and immediatelly to get
                all such references CHANGED to read something like:

                "NO ENTERTAINMENT OR ELECTRONIC RADIOS OR TOYS
                IN CAMP"...

                Because we want to make sure that ALL scouts and
                leaders are WELCOME to bring their HAM radios
                and also to bring FRS radios.   And with the FRS
                radios that we hams teach proper radio etiquette
                and procedures.

                We just must get the words "NO RADIOS... IN CAMP"
                modified.  It appears in every scout camp and
                school camp and church camp literature that I have seen.
                ANd we must work to get this changed.  Those
                words are put in there by clueless individuals who
                do want to properly exclude boom boxes and video
                games, but they do not realize what else they
                are excluding.

                When I talked to my council, they said, "of course,
                Ham radio or FRS are not included".  But I said,
                "then change the words"!.  Do NOT put the parents
                in the position of having to "violate the written
                rule" because they think they know better.  Just
                re-word the stupid rule....

                Good luck.  It takes a lot of effort to get these
                words changed....

                Bob, Wb4APR

              • J. Gordon Beattie, Jr., W2TTT
                Bob, The Radio Chit sounds interesting.can you send the requirements to me? Our Troop has two Scouts who are licensed Hams and we are about to have several
                Message 7 of 17 , May 21, 2006
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                  Bob,

                  The Radio Chit sounds interesting…can you send the requirements to me?

                  Our Troop has two Scouts who are licensed Hams and we are about to have several more.

                   

                  73,

                  Gordon Beattie, W2TTT

                  201.314.6964

                  w2ttt@...

                  w2ttt@...

                  w2ttt@...

                   


                  From: ScoutRadio@yahoogroups.com [mailto: ScoutRadio@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of Robert Bruninga
                  Sent: Saturday, 20 May, 2006 18:42
                  To: fisher_daniel@...; ScoutRadio@yahoogroups.com
                  Subject: Re: Re: [ScoutRadio] Carrying an HT at Philmont

                   

                  And I'd like to make progress on a Radio Chit.
                  Just like a Totin Chip for carrying knife, they
                  would have to do the fundamentals of Radio
                  communication (IE, learn about callsigns,
                  what CTCSS is, and how the channels are shared
                  and so forth before they are "allowed" to blab
                  on a radio.  This is at the cubscout age where
                  they want to play radio but just make noises,
                  not communicate... 

                  I wrote up the requiremets for the Radio-Chit, but
                  donno where they are right now...  Bob, Wb4APR


                  >>> fisher_daniel@... 05/20/06 12:05 PM >>>
                  Bob,

                  I snipped the bottom of your message to conserve space, but kept the highlights so others can follow our thread.

                  You're right. We must lobby the camps to change their signs. I'm a subscriber to "forgiveness is better than permission," which works MOST of the time. (Maybe not the best practice for a police officer, eh?) Anyway, Amateur Radio is a part of Scouting, whereas PSP, AM/FM, TV, etc. are not. So, my philosophy is that if it's good enough for National Jamboree, and if we have a Merit Badge for it, and since ARRL and BSA have had a relationship since long before I was a member of either, then Amateur Radio is impliedly acceptable at Scouting events.

                  That being said, you are absolutely right. We do need to get camp policies changed, and the RIGHT thing to do is to check ahead of time with camp management. We also need to continue to integrate Amateur Radio (and frs) with Scouting. I'd like to see every unit have a couple ham scouts & scouters, with other unit members using frs. (I'd also like to see peace on earth, an end to terrorism, and so on and so forth.)  :-)

                  One more thing while I'm on my soapbox: I'd love to get Central Florida Council to stop having Unversity of Scouting on JOTA weekend. U. of S. is an intensive day of training for leaders, who can obtain training on almost any facet of training. It's a superb program; it just shouldn't happen on JOTA weekend, and they ALWAYS schedule it then, except that last year it was on a different weekend.

                  Thanks and 73,
                  Dan AI4GK

                  ============================================================
                  From: "Robert Bruninga" <bruninga@...>
                  Date: 2006/05/20 Sat AM 10:32:10 EDT
                  To: <fisher_daniel@...>,  < ScoutRadio@yahoogroups.com >
                  Subject: Re: [ScoutRadio] Carrying an HT at Philmont

                  >...my theory is that any Scout or adult Scouter who is a
                  >ham should bring a radio along to just about any and
                  >every event.

                  I would modify that receommendation slightly to say:
                  "...any scout or adult leader who is a ham should
                  check the camp regulations and requirment and
                  make sure well before hand to check the words that
                  appear in most parental-guidance advisorys to
                  the effect of " NO RADIOS OR ELECTRONICS IN CAMP".

                  And to begin lobbying NOW and immediatelly to get
                  all such references CHANGED to read something like:

                  "NO ENTERTAINMENT OR ELECTRONIC RADIOS OR TOYS
                  IN CAMP"...





                  Check out the UK Radio-Scouting page here at Yahoo!Groups. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/radio-scouting-uk

                  Now that you've got new licensees in your unit, why not have them subscibe to http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ScoutRadioYouth

                  Visit "Operation On Target BSA" Mountain Top Signaling:
                  http://www.ontargetbsa.org/

                  Great list of Scouting/Amateur Radio web sites:
                  http://www.k1dwu.net/ham-links/clubs.-.scouting.phtml

                  Visit the Adventure Radio Society: http://www.natworld.com/ars/

                  ScoutRadio start page:
                  http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ScoutRadio (Email archives - member email addresses - change your subscription details, etc.)

                  Post message: ScoutRadio@yahoogroups.com
                  Unsubscribe:  ScoutRadio-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                  List owner:   ScoutRadio-owner@yahoogroups.com

                  SCOUTING and AMATEUR RADIO - FUN FOR ALL AGES
                  Yahoo! Groups Links









                • J. Gordon Beattie, Jr., W2TTT
                  Bob, The Radio Chit sounds interesting.can you send the requirements to me? Our Troop has two Scouts who are licensed Hams and we are about to have several
                  Message 8 of 17 , May 21, 2006
                  • 0 Attachment

                    Bob,

                    The Radio Chit sounds interesting…can you send the requirements to me?

                    Our Troop has two Scouts who are licensed Hams and we are about to have several more.

                     

                    73,

                    Gordon Beattie, W2TTT

                    201.314.6964

                    w2ttt@...

                    w2ttt@...

                    w2ttt@...

                     


                    From: ScoutRadio@yahoogroups.com [mailto: ScoutRadio@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of Robert Bruninga
                    Sent: Saturday, 20 May, 2006 18:42
                    To: fisher_daniel@...; ScoutRadio@yahoogroups.com
                    Subject: Re: Re: [ScoutRadio] Carrying an HT at Philmont

                     

                    And I'd like to make progress on a Radio Chit.
                    Just like a Totin Chip for carrying knife, they
                    would have to do the fundamentals of Radio
                    communication (IE, learn about callsigns,
                    what CTCSS is, and how the channels are shared
                    and so forth before they are "allowed" to blab
                    on a radio.  This is at the cubscout age where
                    they want to play radio but just make noises,
                    not communicate... 

                    I wrote up the requiremets for the Radio-Chit, but
                    donno where they are right now...  Bob, Wb4APR


                    >>> fisher_daniel@... 05/20/06 12:05 PM >>>
                    Bob,

                    I snipped the bottom of your message to conserve space, but kept the highlights so others can follow our thread.

                    You're right. We must lobby the camps to change their signs. I'm a subscriber to "forgiveness is better than permission," which works MOST of the time. (Maybe not the best practice for a police officer, eh?) Anyway, Amateur Radio is a part of Scouting, whereas PSP, AM/FM, TV, etc. are not. So, my philosophy is that if it's good enough for National Jamboree, and if we have a Merit Badge for it, and since ARRL and BSA have had a relationship since long before I was a member of either, then Amateur Radio is impliedly acceptable at Scouting events.

                    That being said, you are absolutely right. We do need to get camp policies changed, and the RIGHT thing to do is to check ahead of time with camp management. We also need to continue to integrate Amateur Radio (and frs) with Scouting. I'd like to see every unit have a couple ham scouts & scouters, with other unit members using frs. (I'd also like to see peace on earth, an end to terrorism, and so on and so forth.)  :-)

                    One more thing while I'm on my soapbox: I'd love to get Central Florida Council to stop having Unversity of Scouting on JOTA weekend. U. of S. is an intensive day of training for leaders, who can obtain training on almost any facet of training. It's a superb program; it just shouldn't happen on JOTA weekend, and they ALWAYS schedule it then, except that last year it was on a different weekend.

                    Thanks and 73,
                    Dan AI4GK

                    ============================================================
                    From: "Robert Bruninga" <bruninga@...>
                    Date: 2006/05/20 Sat AM 10:32:10 EDT
                    To: <fisher_daniel@...>,  < ScoutRadio@yahoogroups.com >
                    Subject: Re: [ScoutRadio] Carrying an HT at Philmont

                    >...my theory is that any Scout or adult Scouter who is a
                    >ham should bring a radio along to just about any and
                    >every event.

                    I would modify that receommendation slightly to say:
                    "...any scout or adult leader who is a ham should
                    check the camp regulations and requirment and
                    make sure well before hand to check the words that
                    appear in most parental-guidance advisorys to
                    the effect of " NO RADIOS OR ELECTRONICS IN CAMP".

                    And to begin lobbying NOW and immediatelly to get
                    all such references CHANGED to read something like:

                    "NO ENTERTAINMENT OR ELECTRONIC RADIOS OR TOYS
                    IN CAMP"...





                    Check out the UK Radio-Scouting page here at Yahoo!Groups. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/radio-scouting-uk

                    Now that you've got new licensees in your unit, why not have them subscibe to http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ScoutRadioYouth

                    Visit "Operation On Target BSA" Mountain Top Signaling:
                    http://www.ontargetbsa.org/

                    Great list of Scouting/Amateur Radio web sites:
                    http://www.k1dwu.net/ham-links/clubs.-.scouting.phtml

                    Visit the Adventure Radio Society: http://www.natworld.com/ars/

                    ScoutRadio start page:
                    http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ScoutRadio (Email archives - member email addresses - change your subscription details, etc.)

                    Post message: ScoutRadio@yahoogroups.com
                    Unsubscribe:  ScoutRadio-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                    List owner:   ScoutRadio-owner@yahoogroups.com

                    SCOUTING and AMATEUR RADIO - FUN FOR ALL AGES
                    Yahoo! Groups Links









                  • Robert Bruninga
                    ... Gordon, I ve written several ideas on radios, FRS and ham radio at camps...have found... http://www.ew.usna.edu/~bruninga/frsnight.html Here is the shacks
                    Message 9 of 17 , May 21, 2006
                    • 0 Attachment
                      >>> vze1u2wn@... 05/21/06 6:57 PM >>>
                      >The Radio Chit sounds interesting.can you send the
                      >requirements to me?

                      Gordon,
                      I've written several ideas on radios, FRS and ham radio at camps...have found...
                      http://www.ew.usna.edu/~bruninga/frsnight.html

                      Here is the shacks at camp stuff...
                      http://www.ew.usna.edu/~bruninga/shacks4packs.html

                      Ah, there is the link near the bottom of that page:
                      http://www.ew.usna.edu/~bruninga/frsplan.txt

                      Hummh... but still not the Chit stuff I wrote...
                      I donno.... but that last one is close...

                      Bob, Wb4APR



                      73,

                      Gordon Beattie, W2TTT

                      201.314.6964

                      w2ttt@...

                      w2ttt@...

                      w2ttt@...



                      _____

                      From: ScoutRadio@yahoogroups.com [mailto:ScoutRadio@yahoogroups.com] On
                      Behalf Of Robert Bruninga
                      Sent: Saturday, 20 May, 2006 18:42
                      To: fisher_daniel@...; ScoutRadio@yahoogroups.com
                      Subject: Re: Re: [ScoutRadio] Carrying an HT at Philmont



                      And I'd like to make progress on a Radio Chit.
                      Just like a Totin Chip for carrying knife, they
                      would have to do the fundamentals of Radio
                      communication (IE, learn about callsigns,
                      what CTCSS is, and how the channels are shared
                      and so forth before they are "allowed" to blab
                      on a radio. This is at the cubscout age where
                      they want to play radio but just make noises,
                      not communicate...

                      I wrote up the requiremets for the Radio-Chit, but
                      donno where they are right now... Bob, Wb4APR


                      >>> fisher_daniel@... 05/20/06 12:05 PM >>>
                      Bob,

                      I snipped the bottom of your message to conserve space, but kept the
                      highlights so others can follow our thread.

                      You're right. We must lobby the camps to change their signs. I'm a
                      subscriber to "forgiveness is better than permission," which works MOST of
                      the time. (Maybe not the best practice for a police officer, eh?) Anyway,
                      Amateur Radio is a part of Scouting, whereas PSP, AM/FM, TV, etc. are not.
                      So, my philosophy is that if it's good enough for National Jamboree, and if
                      we have a Merit Badge for it, and since ARRL and BSA have had a relationship
                      since long before I was a member of either, then Amateur Radio is impliedly
                      acceptable at Scouting events.

                      That being said, you are absolutely right. We do need to get camp policies
                      changed, and the RIGHT thing to do is to check ahead of time with camp
                      management. We also need to continue to integrate Amateur Radio (and frs)
                      with Scouting. I'd like to see every unit have a couple ham scouts &
                      scouters, with other unit members using frs. (I'd also like to see peace on
                      earth, an end to terrorism, and so on and so forth.) :-)

                      One more thing while I'm on my soapbox: I'd love to get Central Florida
                      Council to stop having Unversity of Scouting on JOTA weekend. U. of S. is an
                      intensive day of training for leaders, who can obtain training on almost any
                      facet of training. It's a superb program; it just shouldn't happen on JOTA
                      weekend, and they ALWAYS schedule it then, except that last year it was on a
                      different weekend.

                      Thanks and 73,
                      Dan AI4GK

                      ============================================================
                      From: "Robert Bruninga" <bruninga@...>
                      Date: 2006/05/20 Sat AM 10:32:10 EDT
                      To: <fisher_daniel@...>, <ScoutRadio@yahoogroups.com>
                      Subject: Re: [ScoutRadio] Carrying an HT at Philmont

                      >...my theory is that any Scout or adult Scouter who is a
                      >ham should bring a radio along to just about any and
                      >every event.

                      I would modify that receommendation slightly to say:
                      "...any scout or adult leader who is a ham should
                      check the camp regulations and requirment and
                      make sure well before hand to check the words that
                      appear in most parental-guidance advisorys to
                      the effect of " NO RADIOS OR ELECTRONICS IN CAMP".

                      And to begin lobbying NOW and immediatelly to get
                      all such references CHANGED to read something like:

                      "NO ENTERTAINMENT OR ELECTRONIC RADIOS OR TOYS
                      IN CAMP"...





                      Check out the UK Radio-Scouting page here at Yahoo!Groups.
                      http://groups.yahoo.com/group/radio-scouting-uk

                      Now that you've got new licensees in your unit, why not have them subscibe
                      to http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ScoutRadioYouth

                      Visit "Operation On Target BSA" Mountain Top Signaling:
                      http://www.ontargetbsa.org/

                      Great list of Scouting/Amateur Radio web sites:
                      http://www.k1dwu.net/ham-links/clubs.-.scouting.phtml

                      Visit the Adventure Radio Society: http://www.natworld.com/ars/

                      ScoutRadio start page:
                      http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ScoutRadio (Email archives - member email
                      addresses - change your subscription details, etc.)

                      Post message: ScoutRadio@yahoogroups.com
                      Unsubscribe: ScoutRadio-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                      List owner: ScoutRadio-owner@yahoogroups.com

                      SCOUTING and AMATEUR RADIO - FUN FOR ALL AGES
                      Yahoo! Groups Links










                      Check out the UK Radio-Scouting page here at Yahoo!Groups.
                      http://groups.yahoo.com/group/radio-scouting-uk

                      Now that you've got new licensees in your unit, why not have them subscibe
                      to http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ScoutRadioYouth

                      Visit "Operation On Target BSA" Mountain Top Signaling:
                      http://www.ontargetbsa.org/

                      Great list of Scouting/Amateur Radio web sites:
                      http://www.k1dwu.net/ham-links/clubs.-.scouting.phtml

                      Visit the Adventure Radio Society: http://www.natworld.com/ars/

                      ScoutRadio start page:
                      http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ScoutRadio (Email archives - member email
                      addresses - change your subscription details, etc.)

                      Post message: ScoutRadio@yahoogroups.com
                      Unsubscribe: ScoutRadio-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                      List owner: ScoutRadio-owner@yahoogroups.com

                      SCOUTING and AMATEUR RADIO - FUN FOR ALL AGES




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                      <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Date+idea&w1=Date+idea&w2=Ideas&w3=Radi
                      o&w4=Scouter&w5=Outdoors&c=5&s=64&.sig=mCQpztFx1dCxCxZJgKqgvg> idea

                      Ideas
                      <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Ideas&w1=Date+idea&w2=Ideas&w3=Radio&w4
                      =Scouter&w5=Outdoors&c=5&s=64&.sig=sFDpcZH02g8_D_cunMHWvQ>

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                      <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Radio&w1=Date+idea&w2=Ideas&w3=Radio&w4
                      =Scouter&w5=Outdoors&c=5&s=64&.sig=rXaAUpc4EgpHkbW-U4ExDQ>


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                      <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Scouter&w1=Date+idea&w2=Ideas&w3=Radio&
                      w4=Scouter&w5=Outdoors&c=5&s=64&.sig=A3BwF8viSzYYm_WfU68EiA>

                      Outdoors
                      <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Outdoors&w1=Date+idea&w2=Ideas&w3=Radio
                      &w4=Scouter&w5=Outdoors&c=5&s=64&.sig=tt2xr8fjVGG_qGcU2eL1fg>





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                    • Frank Krizan
                      Hi all, Do a search on scoutradio at yahoogroups.com for communicator chit and radio chit . It doesn t contain the actual requirements, but, will give
                      Message 10 of 17 , May 21, 2006
                      • 0 Attachment

                        Hi all,

                         

                        Do a search on scoutradio at yahoogroups.com for “communicator chit” and “radio chit”.   It doesn’t contain the actual requirements, but, will give those who weren’t part of the original discussion some insight into what was being discussed. 

                         

                        With Bob’s help, maybe we can resurrect the discussion and come up with something that could be used for training, requirements, and the actual “chit.”

                         

                        73, Frank

                         

                         


                        From: ScoutRadio@yahoogroups.com [mailto:ScoutRadio@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Robert Bruninga
                        Sent: Sunday, May 21, 2006 9:11 PM
                        To: vze1u2wn@...; ScoutRadio@yahoogroups.com
                        Subject: RE: Re: [ScoutRadio] Carrying an HT at Philmont

                         

                        >>> vze1u2wn@... 05/21/06 6:57 PM >>>

                        >The Radio Chit sounds interesting.can you send the
                        >requirements to me?

                        Gordon,
                        I've written several ideas on radios, FRS and ham radio at camps...have found...
                        http://www.ew.usna.edu/~bruninga/frsnight.html

                        Here is the shacks at camp stuff...
                        http://www.ew.usna.edu/~bruninga/shacks4packs.html

                        Ah, there is the link near the bottom of that page:
                        http://www.ew.usna.edu/~bruninga/frsplan.txt

                        Hummh... but still not the Chit stuff I wrote...
                        I donno.... but that last one is close...

                        Bob, Wb4APR



                        73,

                        Gordon Beattie, W2TTT

                        201.314.6964

                        w2ttt@...

                        w2ttt@...

                        w2ttt@...



                          _____ 

                        From: ScoutRadio@yahoogroups.com [mailto:ScoutRadio@yahoogroups.com] On
                        Behalf Of Robert Bruninga
                        Sent: Saturday, 20 May, 2006 18:42
                        To: fisher_daniel@...; ScoutRadio@yahoogroups.com
                        Subject: Re: Re: [ScoutRadio] Carrying an HT at Philmont



                        And I'd like to make progress on a Radio Chit.
                        Just like a Totin Chip for carrying knife, they
                        would have to do the fundamentals of Radio
                        communication (IE, learn about callsigns,
                        what CTCSS is, and how the channels are shared
                        and so forth before they are "allowed" to blab
                        on a radio.  This is at the cubscout age where
                        they want to play radio but just make noises,
                        not communicate... 

                        I wrote up the requiremets for the Radio-Chit, but
                        donno where they are right now...  Bob, Wb4APR


                        >>> fisher_daniel@... 05/20/06 12:05 PM >>>
                        Bob,

                        I snipped the bottom of your message to conserve space, but kept the
                        highlights so others can follow our thread.

                        You're right. We must lobby the camps to change their signs. I'm a
                        subscriber to "forgiveness is better than permission," which works MOST of
                        the time. (Maybe not the best practice for a police officer, eh?) Anyway,
                        Amateur Radio is a part of Scouting, whereas PSP, AM/FM, TV, etc. are not.
                        So, my philosophy is that if it's good enough for National Jamboree, and if
                        we have a Merit Badge for it, and since ARRL and BSA have had a relationship
                        since long before I was a member of either, then Amateur Radio is impliedly
                        acceptable at Scouting events.

                        That being said, you are absolutely right. We do need to get camp policies
                        changed, and the RIGHT thing to do is to check ahead of time with camp
                        management. We also need to continue to integrate Amateur Radio (and frs)
                        with Scouting. I'd like to see every unit have a couple ham scouts &
                        scouters, with other unit members using frs. (I'd also like to see peace on
                        earth, an end to terrorism, and so on and so forth.)  :-)

                        One more thing while I'm on my soapbox: I'd love to get Central Florida
                        Council to stop having Unversity of Scouting on JOTA weekend. U. of S. is an
                        intensive day of training for leaders, who can obtain training on almost any
                        facet of training. It's a superb program; it just shouldn't happen on JOTA
                        weekend, and they ALWAYS schedule it then, except that last year it was on a
                        different weekend.

                        Thanks and 73,
                        Dan AI4GK

                        ============================================================
                        From: "Robert Bruninga" <bruninga@...>
                        Date: 2006/05/20 Sat AM 10:32:10 EDT
                        To: <fisher_daniel@...>,  <ScoutRadio@yahoogroups.com>
                        Subject: Re: [ScoutRadio] Carrying an HT at Philmont

                        >...my theory is that any Scout or adult Scouter who is a
                        >ham should bring a radio along to just about any and
                        >every event.

                        I would modify that receommendation slightly to say:
                        "...any scout or adult leader who is a ham should
                        check the camp regulations and requirment and
                        make sure well before hand to check the words that
                        appear in most parental-guidance advisorys to
                        the effect of " NO RADIOS OR ELECTRONICS IN CAMP".

                        And to begin lobbying NOW and immediatelly to get
                        all such references CHANGED to read something like:

                        "NO ENTERTAINMENT OR ELECTRONIC RADIOS OR TOYS
                        IN CAMP"...





                        Check out the UK Radio-Scouting page here at Yahoo!Groups.
                        http://groups.yahoo.com/group/radio-scouting-uk

                        Now that you've got new licensees in your unit, why not have them subscibe
                        to http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ScoutRadioYouth

                        Visit "Operation On Target BSA" Mountain Top Signaling:
                        http://www.ontargetbsa.org/

                        Great list of Scouting/Amateur Radio web sites:
                        http://www.k1dwu.net/ham-links/clubs.-.scouting.phtml

                        Visit the Adventure Radio Society: http://www.natworld.com/ars/

                        ScoutRadio start page:
                        http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ScoutRadio (Email archives - member email
                        addresses - change your subscription details, etc.)

                        Post message: ScoutRadio@yahoogroups.com
                        Unsubscribe:  ScoutRadio-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                        List owner:   ScoutRadio-owner@yahoogroups.com

                        SCOUTING and AMATEUR RADIO - FUN FOR ALL AGES
                        Yahoo! Groups Links










                        Check out the UK Radio-Scouting page here at Yahoo!Groups.
                        http://groups.yahoo.com/group/radio-scouting-uk

                        Now that you've got new licensees in your unit, why not have them subscibe
                        to http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ScoutRadioYouth

                        Visit "Operation On Target BSA" Mountain Top Signaling:
                        http://www.ontargetbsa.org/

                        Great list of Scouting/Amateur Radio web sites:
                        http://www.k1dwu.net/ham-links/clubs.-.scouting.phtml

                        Visit the Adventure Radio Society: http://www.natworld.com/ars/

                        ScoutRadio start page:
                        http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ScoutRadio (Email archives - member email
                        addresses - change your subscription details, etc.)

                        Post message: ScoutRadio@yahoogroups.com
                        Unsubscribe:  ScoutRadio-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                        List owner:   ScoutRadio-owner@yahoogroups.com

                        SCOUTING and AMATEUR RADIO - FUN FOR ALL AGES




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                        <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Date+idea&w1=Date+idea&w2=Ideas&w3=Radi
                        o&w4=Scouter&w5=Outdoors&c=5&s=64&.sig=mCQpztFx1dCxCxZJgKqgvg>  idea

                        Ideas
                        <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Ideas&w1=Date+idea&w2=Ideas&w3=Radio&w4
                        =Scouter&w5=Outdoors&c=5&s=64&.sig=sFDpcZH02g8_D_cunMHWvQ> 

                        Radio
                        <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Radio&w1=Date+idea&w2=Ideas&w3=Radio&w4
                        =Scouter&w5=Outdoors&c=5&s=64&.sig=rXaAUpc4EgpHkbW-U4ExDQ> 


                        Scouter
                        <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Scouter&w1=Date+idea&w2=Ideas&w3=Radio&
                        w4=Scouter&w5=Outdoors&c=5&s=64&.sig=A3BwF8viSzYYm_WfU68EiA> 

                        Outdoors
                        <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Outdoors&w1=Date+idea&w2=Ideas&w3=Radio
                        &w4=Scouter&w5=Outdoors&c=5&s=64&.sig=tt2xr8fjVGG_qGcU2eL1fg> 





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                      • Chris Kelly
                        Hello Steve: As another message in this string answered your question, yes do take your radio. When our crew did Philmont in 2004 we found a ham working in the
                        Message 11 of 17 , May 21, 2006
                        • 0 Attachment
                          Hello Steve:
                          As another message in this string answered your question, yes
                          do take your radio. When our crew did Philmont in 2004
                          we found a ham working in the Base Camp dining hall (wearing his callsign)
                          and he gave us great info about the evening nets that year.
                          Several backcountry camps had hams on the staff and would meet
                          (I believe on 146.52 if I remember) each evening at 8 PM. The staffer at Base
                          also monitored almost all the time he was off-duty.
                          Wear your callsign around basecamp and advertize that you are hams,
                          to help meet other hams. Everyone is pretty busy but the callsign will
                          probably grab another ham's attention and you can learn what's up this year.
                          Conserve battery power and operate evenings, there are few places
                          to recharge anything, but you will probably find some ham operations
                          there among the staffers.
                          73 and have a good trek,
                          Chris Kelly, K0PF
                        • Chris Kelly
                          Additional Considerations upon further thought: 1. Philmont is an experience almost unique, in that you really get away from phones, news, wars, scandals,
                          Message 12 of 17 , May 22, 2006
                          • 0 Attachment
                            Additional Considerations upon further thought:

                            1. Philmont is an experience almost unique, in that you really get away
                            from phones, news, wars, scandals, computers, politics, etc for two weeks.
                            Don't let the HT detract from that experience.
                            I believe we turned on our HT (one for the whole crew, which had three
                            hams) about 3 times during the trek, in the evenings.
                            It was some comfort against accident, because we may be able to get
                            help more quickly if we reached someone by radio from the back country, but
                            the
                            staffed camps are not that far apart, and are the normal first place to go
                            for help.
                            The only other use was in celebrating the ascent of Mount Phillips, where we
                            talked to a ham in Angelfire via the Angelfire repeater.

                            2. Consider the weight seriously. The last two days of our trek (very long
                            days with a couple thousand feet elevation gain/loss) I was wishing
                            I hadn't brought the weight of those three extra postage stamps! At
                            equipment shakeout on checkin you will be urged to reduce weight every
                            possible way.
                            Our crew shared our sunscreen, duct tape, and almost everything
                            except underwear so we would only have to carry one of each item.
                            (We immediately shed SOME of the cooking pots they checked out to us.)
                            Lightweight cameras are worth it, radios are a tradeoff you have to make,
                            and should be based on your willingness/ability to carry that weight for
                            however many miles you plan to hike.

                            I don't change my opinion of "yes", but I wanted to further discuss the
                            issues surrounding the question (besides, it was Ted WB0TSX that
                            carried the radio, not me!)

                            73,
                            Chris Kelly, K0PF
                          • Gary Wilson
                            ... Bob: While in my 35 years of Scouting, I ve never seen any kid told that they can t bring a ham radio to camp, there s probably a better way to get the
                            Message 13 of 17 , May 22, 2006
                            • 0 Attachment
                              --- In ScoutRadio@yahoogroups.com, "Robert Bruninga" <bruninga@...>
                              wrote:
                              >
                              > And to begin lobbying NOW and immediatelly to get
                              > all such references CHANGED to read something like:
                              >
                              > "NO ENTERTAINMENT OR ELECTRONIC RADIOS OR TOYS
                              > IN CAMP"...
                              >
                              > Because we want to make sure that ALL scouts and
                              > leaders are WELCOME to bring their HAM radios
                              >
                              > Good luck. It takes a lot of effort to get these
                              > words changed....

                              Bob:

                              While in my 35 years of Scouting, I've never seen any kid told that
                              they can't bring a ham radio to camp, there's probably a better way
                              to get the message out than trying to lobby 300 councils and 100,000
                              units about their individual rules that might inadvertantly
                              proscribe HT's.

                              I suggest you bring it up with Mike Brown, WB2JWD, who as author of
                              the Radio Merit Badge pamphlet and coordinator of the K2BSA effort
                              at the National Jamboree, has a bit of influence at National Council.

                              Perhaps he could have the desirablity of units having back-up
                              emergency communications such as Ham HT's added to the "Guide to
                              Safe Scouting" which all councils and units must follow. The Guide
                              to Safe Scouting is updated about every two years. The bulletins to
                              National Jamboree contingent leaders always tell hams to bring their
                              HT's along, so it's just expanding Jamboree practice to home troops
                              and councils. And that is one of the functions of the Jamboree.

                              That way we could also promote the positive aspects of Amateur Radio
                              to everyone who reads the national publication, instead of acting
                              like folks who are looking for some special dispensation from a
                              local rule.

                              73 & YIS,

                              Gary Wilson, K2GW
                              Unit Commissioner
                              Central New Jersey Council, BSA
                            • Stephen M. Shearer
                              Dan, You could look at UofS and JOTA on the same weekend as an opportunity to spread the RADIO message to BSA. Set up a JOTA station at the University of
                              Message 14 of 17 , May 24, 2006
                              • 0 Attachment
                                Dan,

                                You could look at UofS and JOTA on the same weekend as an opportunity to
                                spread the RADIO message to BSA. Set up a JOTA station at the University of
                                Scouting event and make it part of the activities.

                                73, Steve WB3LGC

                                -----Original Message-----
                                From: ScoutRadio@yahoogroups.com [mailto:ScoutRadio@yahoogroups.com] On
                                Behalf Of fisher_daniel@...
                                Sent: Saturday, May 20, 2006 12:06 PM
                                To: ScoutRadio@yahoogroups.com
                                Subject: Re: Re: [ScoutRadio] Carrying an HT at Philmont

                                <snip>
                                One more thing while I'm on my soapbox: I'd love to get Central Florida
                                Council to stop having Unversity of Scouting on JOTA weekend. U. of S. is an
                                intensive day of training for leaders, who can obtain training on almost any
                                facet of training. It's a superb program; it just shouldn't happen on JOTA
                                weekend, and they ALWAYS schedule it then, except that last year it was on a
                                different weekend.

                                Thanks and 73,
                                Dan AI4GK
                              • fisher_daniel@bellsouth.net
                                Steve, I ve thought of that. However, that leaves me having to find someone to get the kids on the air. Since U of S is in Winter Park, which is in the Orlando
                                Message 15 of 17 , May 25, 2006
                                • 0 Attachment
                                  Steve,

                                  I've thought of that. However, that leaves me having to find someone to get the kids on the air. Since U of S is in Winter Park, which is in the Orlando metro area, perhaps I can get someone from one of the clubs there to set up a station where the leaders can talk to the Scouts over here. (We're about 80 miles from where U of S is being held.)

                                  73, Dan AI4GK

                                  ============================================================
                                  From: "Stephen M. Shearer" <wb3lgc@...>
                                  Date: 2006/05/24 Wed PM 05:05:54 EDT
                                  To: <ScoutRadio@yahoogroups.com>
                                  Subject: RE: Re: [ScoutRadio] Carrying an HT at Philmont

                                  Dan,

                                  You could look at UofS and JOTA on the same weekend as an opportunity to
                                  spread the RADIO message to BSA. Set up a JOTA station at the University of
                                  Scouting event and make it part of the activities.

                                  73, Steve WB3LGC

                                  -----Original Message-----
                                  From: ScoutRadio@yahoogroups.com [mailto:ScoutRadio@yahoogroups.com] On
                                  Behalf Of fisher_daniel@...
                                  Sent: Saturday, May 20, 2006 12:06 PM
                                  To: ScoutRadio@yahoogroups.com
                                  Subject: Re: Re: [ScoutRadio] Carrying an HT at Philmont

                                  <snip>
                                  One more thing while I'm on my soapbox: I'd love to get Central Florida
                                  Council to stop having Unversity of Scouting on JOTA weekend. U. of S. is an
                                  intensive day of training for leaders, who can obtain training on almost any
                                  facet of training. It's a superb program; it just shouldn't happen on JOTA
                                  weekend, and they ALWAYS schedule it then, except that last year it was on a
                                  different weekend.

                                  Thanks and 73,
                                  Dan AI4GK









                                  Check out the UK Radio-Scouting page here at Yahoo!Groups. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/radio-scouting-uk

                                  Now that you've got new licensees in your unit, why not have them subscibe to http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ScoutRadioYouth

                                  Visit "Operation On Target BSA" Mountain Top Signaling:
                                  http://www.ontargetbsa.org/

                                  Great list of Scouting/Amateur Radio web sites:
                                  http://www.k1dwu.net/ham-links/clubs.-.scouting.phtml

                                  Visit the Adventure Radio Society: http://www.natworld.com/ars/

                                  ScoutRadio start page:
                                  http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ScoutRadio (Email archives - member email addresses - change your subscription details, etc.)

                                  Post message: ScoutRadio@yahoogroups.com
                                  Unsubscribe: ScoutRadio-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                                  List owner: ScoutRadio-owner@yahoogroups.com

                                  SCOUTING and AMATEUR RADIO - FUN FOR ALL AGES
                                  Yahoo! Groups Links






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