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Re: [Scoutradio] Re: scout 50 miler

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  • ClayMayrose@aol.com
    Thanks. I had the name of the mountain range mispelled. I personally can not see how, in the last story, 4 boys started a trek with out adult supervision. It
    Message 1 of 17 , Dec 30, 2003
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      Thanks.  I had the name of the mountain range mispelled. I personally can not see how, in the last story, 4 boys started a trek with out adult supervision.  It might be just me but, our troop would never let sonething like that happen.

      Clay WA6LBU
      Wellston, OK

      In a message dated 12/29/03 10:28:12 PM Central Standard Time, steve@... writes:


      4 Scouts are missing on hike in High Uintas
      http://deseretnews.com/dn/view/0,1249,510040474,00.html


    • Steven C. Gallafent
      ... answer... I ve read both of these and neither says 12-13 year old Boy Scouts should not go on 50-mile hikes in the Uintas. :) It s been a while since
      Message 2 of 17 , Dec 30, 2003
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        > I have read all of this and no one has meantioned the BSA
        > Guide-to-Safe-Scouting or the age appropriate activities list. Please
        > folks, don't just guess these will give you the details.

        > Absolutely, positively correct. Guide to Safe Scouting is the definitive
        answer...

        I've read both of these and neither says "12-13 year old Boy Scouts should
        not go on 50-mile hikes in the Uintas." :)

        It's been a while since I've read the GSS cover-to-cover, but I don't
        remember anything in the book that directly answers the question.

        According to the age-appropriate guidelines list, multi-day hikes are
        appropriate for Boy Scouts. So is "backpacking -- overnight, backcountry,"
        which sounds like exactly what we're talking about.

        The Guide to Safe Scouting provides more detail, since it contains this:

        Anything can happen in the wild outdoors, and you should take measures
        designed to prevent accidents and injuries from occurring. Ask the question:
        "What would happen if ________ occurred?" Once you have identified possible
        problems, devise a plan to minimize the risks and to manage a crisis if one
        occurs. Involve the entire crew in this process so that everyone becomes
        aware of potential dangers and how to avoid them.

        And this:

        All backcountry treks must be supervised by a mature, conscientious adult at
        least 21 years of age who understands the potential risks associated with
        the trek. This person knowingly accepts responsibility for the well-being
        and safety of the youth in his or her care.

        And this:

        Obviously, the best way to stay safe in the wilderness is to not get into
        trouble in the first place. This requires planning, leadership, and good
        judgment.

        My interpretation of the discussion has been that we're discussing these
        very questions so that the original poster can make his own determination
        with the troop as to whether or not this activity is appropriate.

        Having been a unit commissioner for a while, I can say that, for the eight
        units I worked with, this trip would received mixed reviews. For a couple of
        units, I'd have said "have a good time." With those units, I would know that
        the adult leaders would have already had the discussion we're having here
        and would already have asked the "What would happen if ..." questions. They
        would also lead the boys through the process of preparing themselves for the
        trip, including conditioning hikes and everything else that has been
        suggested.

        With some of the other units, I would be concerned that the adults hadn't
        had this discussion and hadn't asked "what if." In those same cases, I would
        be concerned that the preparation wouldn't happen and the trip would be a
        bad experience.

        I guess my point is that I don't read anything in the GSS that answers the
        original question: Is this an appropriate trip? The troop in question is
        going to have to look at the proposed activity and the discussion we have
        had and determine, in their own good judgment, whether this is appropriate
        for their boys.

        > Thanks. I had the name of the mountain range mispelled. I personally can
        not
        > see how, in the last story, 4 boys started a trek with out adult
        supervision.
        > It might be just me but, our troop would never let sonething like that
        > happen.

        I used to say that very thing.

        There were two separate incidents a few weeks apart in Salt Lake City a
        couple of years ago where scouts riding in the back of a pickup (gasp!) fell
        out and were killed. I mentioned to my wife that the leaders in our units
        wouldn't do that because we constantly harped on those safety rules.

        She took that opportunity to point out to me that, a few weeks earlier, she
        had been at an activity (boys and girls) with some of those leaders. They
        were doing a service project picking up trash along a one-mile stretch of
        dirt road. At the end of the trip, the boys climbed into the back of the
        leader's van and drove back down to the start of the road with the hatchback
        open and their legs hanging out.

        I'll bet you can't guess what I would say if he suggested this 50-miler.

        Steve

        Steven C. Gallafent - The Computer Guy
        steve@... - http://www.compguy.com/
        "I used to be a Fox"
      • Bill Stewart
        Actually it does. It says that High-Adventure activites are for youth 13 and over. I would classify this as a High-Adventure activity. There is a reason that
        Message 3 of 17 , Dec 31, 2003
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          Actually it does. It says that High-Adventure activites are for youth 13 and over. I would classify this as a High-Adventure activity. There is a reason
          that Venturing is for those 14 and over. It primarily does High-Adventure, whether it's backcountry camping and hiking or assisting the Red Cross in shelter operations.
          Look  at the age guidelines in the GSS.

          73,

          Bill Stewart, W2BSA

          Steven C. Gallafent wrote:
          I have read all of this and no one has meantioned the BSA
          Guide-to-Safe-Scouting or the age appropriate activities list. Please
          folks, don't just guess these will give you the details.
              
            
          Absolutely, positively correct. Guide to Safe Scouting is the definitive
              
          answer...
          
          I've read both of these and neither says "12-13 year old Boy Scouts should
          not go on 50-mile hikes in the Uintas." :)
          
          It's been a while since I've read the GSS cover-to-cover, but I don't
          remember anything in the book that directly answers the question.
          
          According to the age-appropriate guidelines list, multi-day hikes are
          appropriate for Boy Scouts. So is "backpacking -- overnight, backcountry,"
          which sounds like exactly what we're talking about.
          
          The Guide to Safe Scouting provides more detail, since it contains this:
          
          Anything can happen in the wild outdoors, and you should take measures
          designed to prevent accidents and injuries from occurring. Ask the question:
          "What would happen if ________ occurred?" Once you have identified possible
          problems, devise a plan to minimize the risks and to manage a crisis if one
          occurs. Involve the entire crew in this process so that everyone becomes
          aware of potential dangers and how to avoid them.
          
          And this:
          
          All backcountry treks must be supervised by a mature, conscientious adult at
          least 21 years of age who understands the potential risks associated with
          the trek. This person knowingly accepts responsibility for the well-being
          and safety of the youth in his or her care.
          
          And this:
          
          Obviously, the best way to stay safe in the wilderness is to not get into
          trouble in the first place. This requires planning, leadership, and good
          judgment.
          
          My interpretation of the discussion has been that we're discussing these
          very questions so that the original poster can make his own determination
          with the troop as to whether or not this activity is appropriate.
          
          Having been a unit commissioner for a while, I can say that, for the eight
          units I worked with, this trip would received mixed reviews. For a couple of
          units, I'd have said "have a good time." With those units, I would know that
          the adult leaders would have already had the discussion we're having here
          and would already have asked the "What would happen if ..." questions. They
          would also lead the boys through the process of preparing themselves for the
          trip, including conditioning hikes and everything else that has been
          suggested.
          
          With some of the other units, I would be concerned that the adults hadn't
          had this discussion and hadn't asked "what if." In those same cases, I would
          be concerned that the preparation wouldn't happen and the trip would be a
          bad experience.
          
          I guess my point is that I don't read anything in the GSS that answers the
          original question: Is this an appropriate trip? The troop in question is
          going to have to look at the proposed activity and the discussion we have
          had and determine, in their own good judgment, whether this is appropriate
          for their boys.
          
            
          Thanks.  I had the name of the mountain range mispelled. I personally can
              
          not
            
          see how, in the last story, 4 boys started a trek with out adult
              
          supervision.
            
          It might be just me but, our troop would never let sonething like that
          happen.
              
          I used to say that very thing.
          
          There were two separate incidents a few weeks apart in Salt Lake City a
          couple of years ago where scouts riding in the back of a pickup (gasp!) fell
          out and were killed. I mentioned to my wife that the leaders in our units
          wouldn't do that because we constantly harped on those safety rules.
          
          She took that opportunity to point out to me that, a few weeks earlier, she
          had been at an activity (boys and girls) with some of those leaders. They
          were doing a service project picking up trash along a one-mile stretch of
          dirt road. At the end of the trip, the boys climbed into the back of the
          leader's van and drove back down to the start of the road with the hatchback
          open and their legs hanging out.
          
          I'll bet you can't guess what I would say if he suggested this 50-miler.
          
          Steve
          
          Steven C. Gallafent - The Computer Guy
          steve@... - http://www.compguy.com/
          "I used to be a Fox"
          
          
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