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Re: FRS Radios at Scout Camp

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  • TJ-wd4nhh
    The two channel radio s I ve seen have channel s 1 & 8 . T.J. WD4NHH wd4nhh@netzero.net ... From: Bob Bruninga To:
    Message 1 of 15 , Oct 25, 1999
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      The two channel radio's I've seen have channel's 1 & 8 .

      T.J. WD4NHH
      wd4nhh@...

      -----Original Message-----
      From: Bob Bruninga <bruninga@...>
      To: scoutradio@onelist.com <scoutradio@onelist.com>
      Date: Monday, October 25, 1999 9:15 PM
      Subject: Re: [scoutradio] FRS Radios at Scout Camp


      >From: Bob Bruninga <bruninga@...>
      >
      >On Mon, 25 Oct 1999, TJ-wd4nhh wrote Something he forgot to put in his
      >last message about FRS radios:
      >>
      >> is that alot of the cheaper new ones have 14 CH's but have no PL tones .
      >
      >Yes, That is why I proposed channel 1 no tone as the calling "fun" channel
      >for scouts at all times... But after my weekend with 1000 cubscouts, I
      >grew weary of the "chatter" and thats why I modified my suggestion so that
      >the leaders could have a more private "back channel". Only the leader
      >needs the ch9/tone9 radio.
      >
      >Also, I noticed that most radios are NOT made for quick QSY or changing
      >tones, so all planing should consider that the leader may need 2 radios,
      >one for his kids and one for the leaders channel...
      >
      >I chose 9/9 simply as a parallel to "CB" channel 9, but if there is any
      >other combination of digits that is "common" in scouting, then I am happy
      >if we choose that instead. Since many "families" and general public may
      >also think in terms of choosing the same CH/TONE combos, then 9/9 may have
      >more QRM from non scouters than if we did something totally off the wall
      >such as 9/15. (dont go above 15 since many radios only offer the first 15
      >tones...)
      >
      >Also, I noticed many 2 channel radios being sold. What is the 2nd
      >channel? We might want to avoid that one too...
      >
      >bob
      >
      >>SCOUTING and AMATEUR RADIO - FUN FOR ALL AGES
      >

      __________________________________________
      NetZero - Defenders of the Free World
      Get your FREE Internet Access and Email at
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    • Bob Bruninga
      On Mon, 25 Oct 1999, TJ-wd4nhh wrote Something he forgot to put in his ... Yes, That is why I proposed channel 1 no tone as the calling fun channel for
      Message 2 of 15 , Oct 25, 1999
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        On Mon, 25 Oct 1999, TJ-wd4nhh wrote Something he forgot to put in his
        last message about FRS radios:
        >
        > is that alot of the cheaper new ones have 14 CH's but have no PL tones .

        Yes, That is why I proposed channel 1 no tone as the calling "fun" channel
        for scouts at all times... But after my weekend with 1000 cubscouts, I
        grew weary of the "chatter" and thats why I modified my suggestion so that
        the leaders could have a more private "back channel". Only the leader
        needs the ch9/tone9 radio.

        Also, I noticed that most radios are NOT made for quick QSY or changing
        tones, so all planing should consider that the leader may need 2 radios,
        one for his kids and one for the leaders channel...

        I chose 9/9 simply as a parallel to "CB" channel 9, but if there is any
        other combination of digits that is "common" in scouting, then I am happy
        if we choose that instead. Since many "families" and general public may
        also think in terms of choosing the same CH/TONE combos, then 9/9 may have
        more QRM from non scouters than if we did something totally off the wall
        such as 9/15. (dont go above 15 since many radios only offer the first 15
        tones...)

        Also, I noticed many 2 channel radios being sold. What is the 2nd
        channel? We might want to avoid that one too...

        bob
      • Ray J. Vaughan
        ... Have you thought about an interface to GMRS? If I m there with my GMRS radio, I can legally talk to FRS users (http://www.rayvaughan.com/gmrs.htm) on the
        Message 3 of 15 , Oct 25, 1999
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          At 05:15 PM 10/25/99 -0400, you wrote:
          >From: Bob Bruninga <bruninga@...>
          >I chose 9/9 simply as a parallel to "CB" channel 9, but if there is any
          >other combination of digits that is "common" in scouting, then I am happy
          >if we choose that instead. Since many "families" and general public may
          >also think in terms of choosing the same CH/TONE combos, then 9/9 may have
          >more QRM from non scouters than if we did something totally off the wall
          >such as 9/15. (dont go above 15 since many radios only offer the first 15
          >tones...)

          Have you thought about an interface to GMRS? If I'm there with my GMRS
          radio, I can legally talk to FRS users (http://www.rayvaughan.com/gmrs.htm)
          on the 462 channels we have in common. Would that be a good choice for the
          camp HQ maybe? Of course, anyone using the radio in the office would need
          to get their own GMRS license. Active Scout masters might also want to
          upgrade. 2 watts of "Come back to camp" on a base antenna would be better
          than milliwatts.

          Ray J. Vaughan, MS, CBTE
          KD4BBM PG-7-15266
          http://www.rayvaughan.com/
          ray@...
        • Bob Bruninga
          ... Interesting, yes, I bought eery GMRS radio I could find when Radio Shack closed them out... But I was pretty sure that the rules prohibit one service
          Message 4 of 15 , Oct 26, 1999
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            On Mon, 25 Oct 1999, Ray J. Vaughan wrote:

            > Have you thought about an interface to GMRS? If I'm there with my GMRS
            > radio, I can legally talk to FRS users (http://www.rayvaughan.com/gmrs.htm)
            > on the 462 channels we have in common. Would that be a good choice for the
            > camp HQ maybe?

            Interesting, yes, I bought eery GMRS radio I could find when Radio Shack
            closed them out... But I was pretty sure that the "rules" prohibit one
            service from talking to the other... even though we know they are
            identical on the 7 interstitial channels. (but the FRS uses 2.5 KHz
            deviatino and the GMRS uses 5. I find that the GMRS are not frequency
            stable enough to remain in the passband of the FRS, and thus, the FRS
            frequently squleches them out...

            bob
          • TJ-wd4nhh
            GMRS and FRS channels are not the same . FRS channel s are inbetween the GMRS channels and they are called splinter Freq. s . T.J. WD4NHH wd4nhh@netzero.net
            Message 5 of 15 , Oct 26, 1999
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              GMRS and FRS channels are not the same . FRS channel's are

              inbetween the GMRS channels and they are called splinter Freq.'s .

              T.J. WD4NHH
              wd4nhh@...
              Pack 301 Den 3 Asst. Den Leader
              -----Original Message-----
              From: Ray J. Vaughan <ray@...>
              To: scoutradio@onelist.com <scoutradio@onelist.com>
              Date: Tuesday, October 26, 1999 3:51 AM
              Subject: Re: [scoutradio] FRS Radios at Scout Camp


              >From: "Ray J. Vaughan" <ray@...>
              >
              >At 05:15 PM 10/25/99 -0400, you wrote:
              >>From: Bob Bruninga <bruninga@...>
              >>I chose 9/9 simply as a parallel to "CB" channel 9, but if there is any
              >>other combination of digits that is "common" in scouting, then I am happy
              >>if we choose that instead. Since many "families" and general public may
              >>also think in terms of choosing the same CH/TONE combos, then 9/9 may have
              >>more QRM from non scouters than if we did something totally off the wall
              >>such as 9/15. (dont go above 15 since many radios only offer the first 15
              >>tones...)
              >
              >Have you thought about an interface to GMRS? If I'm there with my GMRS
              >radio, I can legally talk to FRS users (http://www.rayvaughan.com/gmrs.htm)
              >on the 462 channels we have in common. Would that be a good choice for the
              >camp HQ maybe? Of course, anyone using the radio in the office would need
              >to get their own GMRS license. Active Scout masters might also want to
              >upgrade. 2 watts of "Come back to camp" on a base antenna would be better
              >than milliwatts.
              >
              > Ray J. Vaughan, MS, CBTE
              > KD4BBM PG-7-15266
              > http://www.rayvaughan.com/
              > ray@...
              >
              >>SCOUTING and AMATEUR RADIO - FUN FOR ALL AGES
              >

              __________________________________________
              NetZero - Defenders of the Free World
              Get your FREE Internet Access and Email at
              http://www.netzero.net/download/index.html
            • Bob Bruninga
              ... Sort of. The GMRS had added seven interstitial channels. These then were converted to FRS when the FRS service was enacted. SO you are right that
              Message 6 of 15 , Oct 26, 1999
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                On Tue, 26 Oct 1999, TJ-wd4nhh wrote:

                > From: "TJ-wd4nhh" <wd4nhh@...>
                >
                > GMRS and FRS channels are not the same . FRS channel's are
                >
                > inbetween the GMRS channels and they are called splinter Freq.'s .

                Sort of. The GMRS had added seven "interstitial" channels.
                These then were converted to "FRS" when the FRS service was enacted. SO
                you are right that they were not part of the ancient GMRS channels, but
                they were part of the GMRS servicve recently... I guess it depends on
                what you call GMRS...?

                Or at least that was the way I understood it. My GMRS radios talk fine on
                the "interstitial" channels with FRS units (except for the difference in
                deviation and frequency stability...

                bob
              • Ray Vaughan
                ... True, but GMRS licensees are permitted to use the seven 462 MHz splinters also. And at more power than the FRS users on the same channels. (but not as
                Message 7 of 15 , Oct 26, 1999
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                  At 12:29 PM 10/26/99 -0000, you wrote:
                  >From: "TJ-wd4nhh" <wd4nhh@...>
                  >
                  >GMRS and FRS channels are not the same . FRS channel's are
                  >
                  >inbetween the GMRS channels and they are called splinter Freq.'s .
                  >
                  >T.J. WD4NHH
                  >wd4nhh@...

                  True, but GMRS licensees are permitted to use the seven 462 MHz splinters
                  also. And at more power than the FRS users on the same channels. (but not
                  as much as on the regular GMRS channels) There was some question as to
                  GMRS <-> FRS traffic being legal, but there's a Opinion and Order from the
                  FCC approving it. To see this, go to this page:

                  http://www.rayvaughan.com/gmrs.htm

                  So, as I read it, GMRS licensees CAN communicate with FRS users, but on
                  only 7 channels. The selection of Scout channels might want to take those
                  7 into consideration.




                  Ray J. Vaughan, MS, CBTE
                  KD4BBM
                  ray@...
                  http://www.rayvaughan.com/
                • Ray Vaughan
                  ... To follow up on this a bit more: http://www.dougweb.com/gmrsinter.html This shows the GMRS Interstitial and FRS channels side by side. It looks like FRS
                  Message 8 of 15 , Oct 26, 1999
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                    At 01:47 PM 10/26/99 -0400, you wrote:
                    >From: Bob Bruninga <bruninga@...>
                    >Sort of. The GMRS had added seven "interstitial" channels.
                    >These then were converted to "FRS" when the FRS service was enacted. SO
                    >you are right that they were not part of the ancient GMRS channels, but
                    >they were part of the GMRS servicve recently... I guess it depends on
                    >what you call GMRS...?

                    To follow up on this a bit more:

                    http://www.dougweb.com/gmrsinter.html

                    This shows the GMRS Interstitial and FRS channels side by side. It looks
                    like FRS users on channels 1-7 get to talk to GMRS licensees, they're on
                    their own on channels 8-14. So the 9-9 suggestion for Emergencies might
                    need to be reconsidered if you would want to have GMRS as part of your
                    camp's plan.


                    Ray J. Vaughan, MS, CBTE
                    KD4BBM
                    ray@...
                    http://www.rayvaughan.com/
                  • Bob Bruninga
                    2-channel FRS radios on sale this and next week at Best Buy for $49 a PAIR! Brand name VOX-BOX (do not have VOX circuits). No PL. Run on 4 AAA s. 500 mw...
                    Message 9 of 15 , Oct 26, 1999
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                      2-channel FRS radios on sale this and next week at Best Buy for $49
                      a PAIR! Brand name VOX-BOX (do not have VOX circuits).

                      No PL. Run on 4 AAA's. 500 mw... (max legal power)

                      Not a bad radio for $25 each...

                      Not exactly APRS, but still useful at a special event...

                      de WB4APR, Bob
                    • Bob Bruninga
                      ... Good point. I guess then channel 7? Who cares about channel-9 anyway... it was only a vague reeerence to CB... and I am happy to distance ourselves
                      Message 10 of 15 , Oct 28, 1999
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                        On Tue, 26 Oct 1999, Ray Vaughan wrote:

                        > This shows the GMRS Interstitial and FRS channels side by side. It looks
                        > like FRS users on channels 1-7 get to talk to GMRS licensees, they're on
                        > their own on channels 8-14. So the 9-9 suggestion for Emergencies might
                        > need to be reconsidered if you would want to have GMRS as part of your
                        > camp's plan.

                        Good point. I guess then channel 7? Who cares about "channel-9"
                        anyway... it was only a vague reeerence to CB... and I am happy to
                        distance ourselves from CB as much as possible.

                        ALSO, I find it bad that all the documents in the FRS packages offer
                        NOTHING IN THE WAY OF USER EDUCATION about how to use a radio and proper
                        radiotelephone technique...

                        At the beach, you hear "DADDY", then "DADDY! WHere are you !"
                        Ie, no callsigns....

                        I think the docs shouls "suggest to users the use of personal callsigns"

                        bob
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