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Re: [ScottishWarPrisoners] Re: RE:Battle of Dunbar

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  • Cathy Lemar
    Those 1,400 survivors were still a threat to Cromwell s Commonwealth, and the government ordered their exile from the British isles. Five hundred were sold
    Message 1 of 8 , Nov 15, 2005
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      Those 1,400 survivors were still a threat to Cromwell's Commonwealth, and
      the government ordered their exile from the British isles. Five hundred were
      sold into the French army to fight in Spain, and nine hundred were sold as
      indentured servants to the New World. Most went to Virginia, but 150 on
      November 11 were put aboard a ship named the Unity captained by Augustine
      Walker out of London bound for Boston. Conditions aboard ship for the
      Scottish prisoners were little better than on slaving ships, and we do not
      know how many died during the voyage. But we do know that in Boston 25 were
      sold to a sawmill on the Piscataqua River in Maine, and 62 were sent to the
      Saugus by The Company of Undertakers of the Iron Works of New England. These
      are the men whom we are commemorating today.

      Soon after they arrived here one of their number, Davidson, died of poor
      health, probably from the sea voyage. Seventeen were sent back to Boston to
      work in the company's warehouses. Five to ten were sold off to work off
      their indenture in local businesses and homes. The remainder lived and
      worked here at the Saugus Iron Works, serving as forge hands, colliers,
      blacksmiths, miners, woodcutters, and domestics. Their names include John
      Toish, James Mackall, John Mackshane, Thomas Tower, John Clark, John
      Steward, James Gourdan, James Adams, and many others. In time some married
      and raised families whose descendants are among us here today.

      We are gathered here today to remember the souls of those Scots who lost
      their lives or their freedom fighting to defend their country at the Battle
      of Dunbar 350 years ago today. And we are gathered here specifically at the
      Saugus Iron Works to give thanks for the lives of those prisoners of that
      war who survived the rigors of their ill-treatment and exile to begin new
      families here in this country.

      http://www.tarasthistle.org/dunbar.html

      Cathy Lemar

      ----- Original Message -----
      From: "Ericka Morgan" <erickawaymorgan@...>
      To: <ScottishWarPrisoners@yahoogroups.com>
      Sent: Tuesday, November 15, 2005 8:51 PM
      Subject: Re: [ScottishWarPrisoners] Re: RE:Battle of Dunbar


      > Dave,
      > Wow, where'd you find that book? Could you look for Robert Abernathy
      > while you are at it? If anyone could every circulate such a list, it
      > would be wonderful. I know that Robert Abernathy was inthe Battle of
      > Dunbar and the Battle of Worcester, and that he came over in or around
      > 1652. He was an indentured servant for several years and then began a
      > long history of farming in Brunswick County, Virginia. If you see an
      > Abernathy (or Abernethy) on the list, please let me know!-Ericka Morgan
      >
      > Dave Fisher <stonehorse148@...> wrote:
      > Jan,
      >
      > There is no known ship list for the UNITY, at least on this side of
      > the pond. The Saugus Iron works may have some information, or
      > leads. I am not at home in VA now, but I have a book listing
      > Scottish prisoners, and includes prisoners transported in JOHN &
      > SARAH. I'll check it out when I get back.
      >
      > Dave (of George Gray)
      >
      > --- In ScottishWarPrisoners@yahoogroups.com, "Larry Highman"
      > <medievaltents@h...> wrote:
      >>
      >> Hi Dave,
      >>
      >> Thank you for joining the list. My ancestor was Daniel Cone. We
      > don't know
      >> if his name was changed, he may have been the Daniel McHoe on the
      > John and
      >> Sara (I believe, the ship of prisoners from the Battle of
      > Worcester). Our
      >> family history is that he was taken in the Battle of Dunbar. We
      > found a
      >> reference that he was born in Edinburgh, but I think that was
      > assumed from
      >> his death certificate (Haddam CT). I appreciate what you have
      > added about
      >> the history of the men fighting at Dunbar. I had not heard that
      > Gen Leslie
      >> raised the troops from the lowlands. Do you have any more gems?
      > Is there a
      >> passenger manifest for the Unity?
      >>
      >>
      >>
      >> Jan (Cone) Highman
      >>
      >>
      >>
      >> >>>
      >> >I too am a direct relative of George Gray on my mother's side
      >> >(grandmother Myrtle Gray (decd.) of Georgetown, MA). I realize
      > that
      >> >the early affairs of G.G. are a bit hazy (gray!?). While poking
      >> >about for information, I came up on the comprehensive Cederman
      >> >geneology ( http://www.cederman.com/genealogy/ ) with notations of
      > a
      >> >(the?) Gray family. Within it I note that a Lord Patrick Gray was
      >> >born in the Dundee/Perthshire area in 1538. His son, William is
      > also
      >> >noted as being in the area as Sheriff of Forfar and then Burgess of
      >> >Dundee 1589-1590. No dates of birth or death in given. William's
      >> >son was Andrew, who also died in the area (at Pitscandly, near
      >> >Forfar), no date given. Andrew had one son, GEORGE. No other
      >> >information is noted for George, and there are no other George
      > Grays
      >> >listed in any near period. If you allow a standard of 25 years
      >> >between generations beginning with Lord Patrick G., George G. would
      >> >have been born in the first quarter of the 1600s, and in his mid-
      > 30s
      >> >at the time of the Battle of Dunbar. That George left no progeny,
      >> >and is not listed as dying in Scotland. Maybe sent off in the
      >> >UNITY? Who knows?
      >> >
      >> >The Grays have been claimed as a sept of the Southerland clan (far
      >> >northeast Scotland), but the history of the Battle of Dunbar is
      > that
      >> >the highland clans did not participate, and that General Lesley
      >> >raised his Covenenter Army in the lowlands - Dundee and Perthshire
      >> >being quite close to the north across the River Tay.
      >> >
      >> >So, it is not unreasonable to speculate that Cederman's George G.
      >> >could have been the one in the right place at the right time.
      > Maybe
      >> >there is a paper-trail somewhere in the Forfar/Pitscandly area.
      >> >
      >> >Dave Fisher
      >> >
      >>
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
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      > company American family home owner insurance Prisoners of war
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      >
      > Visit your group "ScottishWarPrisoners" on the web.
      >
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      >
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    • bob gillis
      ... The list of the Scotsmen on the John and Sarah does not contain any Abernathy or similar name. This list is contained in a letter to Thomas Kemble date 11
      Message 2 of 8 , Nov 16, 2005
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        Ericka Morgan wrote:

        >Dave,
        > Wow, where'd you find that book? Could you look for Robert Abernathy while you are at it? If anyone could every circulate such a list, it would be wonderful. I know that Robert Abernathy was in the Battle of Dunbar and the Battle of Worcester, and that he came over in or around 1652. He was an indentured servant for several years and then began a long history of farming in Brunswick County, Virginia. If you see an Abernathy (or Abernethy) on the list, please let me know! Morgan
        >
        >Dave Fisher <stonehorse148@...> wrote:
        > Jan,
        >
        >There is no known ship list for the UNITY, at least on this side of
        >the pond. The Saugus Iron works may have some information, or
        >leads. I am not at home in VA now, but I have a book listing
        >Scottish prisoners, and includes prisoners transported in JOHN &
        >SARAH. I'll check it out when I get back.
        >
        The list of the Scotsmen on the John and Sarah does not contain any
        Abernathy or similar name. This list is contained in a letter to Thomas
        Kemble date 11 Nov 1651 from Robert Rich and William Greene. The letter
        was entered and recorded in the Suffolk County Deeds at the request of
        Mr Kemble.

        The list of names of the men on the John and Sarah has been transcribed
        and published in the NEHGR and several other publications.

        How do you know he was in the Battles of Dunbar and Worcester? Other
        captives at Worcester may have gone to Virginia but AFAIK, there is no
        list of them.

        bob gillis
      • Ericka Morgan
        Bob, I should say Robert Abernathy was in the Battle of Dunbar and/or the Battle of Worcester, according to a book in the geneaology collection of the Library
        Message 3 of 8 , Nov 16, 2005
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          Bob,
          I should say Robert Abernathy was in the Battle of Dunbar and/or the Battle of Worcester, according to a book in the geneaology collection of the Library of Virginia, titled Descendants of Robert Abernathy. I understand that there is not a list, and do not mean to make an absolute claim-but I suppose we have to base our info on something.-Ericka Morgan

          bob gillis <robertgillis@...> wrote:
          Ericka Morgan wrote:

          >Dave,
          > Wow, where'd you find that book? Could you look for Robert Abernathy while you are at it? If anyone could every circulate such a list, it would be wonderful. I know that Robert Abernathy was in the Battle of Dunbar and the Battle of Worcester, and that he came over in or around 1652. He was an indentured servant for several years and then began a long history of farming in Brunswick County, Virginia. If you see an Abernathy (or Abernethy) on the list, please let me know! Morgan
          >
          >Dave Fisher <stonehorse148@...> wrote:
          > Jan,
          >
          >There is no known ship list for the UNITY, at least on this side of
          >the pond. The Saugus Iron works may have some information, or
          >leads. I am not at home in VA now, but I have a book listing
          >Scottish prisoners, and includes prisoners transported in JOHN &
          >SARAH. I'll check it out when I get back.
          >
          The list of the Scotsmen on the John and Sarah does not contain any
          Abernathy or similar name. This list is contained in a letter to Thomas
          Kemble date 11 Nov 1651 from Robert Rich and William Greene. The letter
          was entered and recorded in the Suffolk County Deeds at the request of
          Mr Kemble.

          The list of names of the men on the John and Sarah has been transcribed
          and published in the NEHGR and several other publications.

          How do you know he was in the Battles of Dunbar and Worcester? Other
          captives at Worcester may have gone to Virginia but AFAIK, there is no
          list of them.

          bob gillis



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        • bob gillis
          ... I did a Google search on Robert Abernathy and found an article by Rhonda Mcclure on Genealogy.com at www.genealogy.com/askr011702.html which I have sent to
          Message 4 of 8 , Nov 17, 2005
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            Ericka Morgan wrote:

            >Bob,
            > I should say Robert Abernathy was in the Battle of Dunbar and/or the Battle of Worcester, according to a book in the genealogy collection of the Library of Virginia, titled Descendants of Robert Abernathy. I understand that there is not a list, and do not mean to make an absolute claim, but I suppose we have to base our info on something.
            >
            I did a Google search on Robert Abernathy and found an article by Rhonda
            Mcclure on Genealogy.com at www.genealogy.com/askr011702.html which I
            have sent to Ericka privately and will not post on this list for
            copyright concerns.

            Basically there is no direct evidence that he fought at Dunbar or
            Worcester and she had only secondary sources that he was in Virginia in
            1651.

            Rhonda Mcclure has written other articles on the Scottish Prisoners.

            bob gillis

            bob gillis
          • Dave Fisher
            Unfortunately, no McHoe, or anything close appears in the book. Many entries concerning the ship JOHN AND SARAH though. The only Abernathy (Abernethy) noted
            Message 5 of 8 , Nov 18, 2005
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              Unfortunately, no McHoe, or anything close appears in the book. Many
              entries concerning the ship JOHN AND SARAH though.

              The only Abernathy (Abernethy) noted is:

              "ABERNETHY JANET
              Daughter of William Abernethy
              deceased, in Old Manse of Foveran. Petty thief. Banished
              at Aberdeen. Transported on
              BETSY, master James Ramsay.
              Landed Port of James River
              Upper District 29 April 1772"

              Thus is the typical entry in the book. The James River is in
              Virginia, and the "Upper District" could be no further inland than
              the Fall Line at Richmond.

              Directory of Scots Banished to the American Plantations 1650-1775
              by David Dobson
              Geneological Publishing Co., Baltimore, 1983
              ISBN 0-8063-1035-9, LCCN 83-81052

              Sorry no more information. My guy isn't in it either.

              Dave

              --- In ScottishWarPrisoners@yahoogroups.com, Ericka Morgan
              <erickawaymorgan@y...> wrote:
              >
              > Dave,
              > Wow, where'd you find that book? Could you look for Robert
              Abernathy while you are at it? If anyone could every circulate such
              a list, it would be wonderful. I know that Robert Abernathy was
              inthe Battle of Dunbar and the Battle of Worcester, and that he came
              over in or around 1652. He was an indentured servant for several
              years and then began a long history of farming in Brunswick County,
              Virginia. If you see an Abernathy (or Abernethy) on the list, please
              let me know!-Ericka Morgan
              >
              > Dave Fisher <stonehorse148@y...> wrote:
              > Jan,
              >
              > There is no known ship list for the UNITY, at least on this side of
              > the pond. The Saugus Iron works may have some information, or
              > leads. I am not at home in VA now, but I have a book listing
              > Scottish prisoners, and includes prisoners transported in JOHN &
              > SARAH. I'll check it out when I get back.
              >
              > Dave (of George Gray)
              >
              > --- In ScottishWarPrisoners@yahoogroups.com, "Larry Highman"
              > <medievaltents@h...> wrote:
              > >
              > > Hi Dave,
              > >
              > > Thank you for joining the list. My ancestor was Daniel Cone. We
              > don't know
              > > if his name was changed, he may have been the Daniel McHoe on the
              > John and
              > > Sara (I believe, the ship of prisoners from the Battle of
              > Worcester). Our
              > > family history is that he was taken in the Battle of Dunbar. We
              > found a
              > > reference that he was born in Edinburgh, but I think that was
              > assumed from
              > > his death certificate (Haddam CT). I appreciate what you have
              > added about
              > > the history of the men fighting at Dunbar. I had not heard that
              > Gen Leslie
              > > raised the troops from the lowlands. Do you have any more gems?
              > Is there a
              > > passenger manifest for the Unity?
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > > Jan (Cone) Highman
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > > >>>
              > > >I too am a direct relative of George Gray on my mother's side
              > > >(grandmother Myrtle Gray (decd.) of Georgetown, MA). I realize
              > that
              > > >the early affairs of G.G. are a bit hazy (gray!?). While poking
              > > >about for information, I came up on the comprehensive Cederman
              > > >geneology ( http://www.cederman.com/genealogy/ ) with notations
              of
              > a
              > > >(the?) Gray family. Within it I note that a Lord Patrick Gray
              was
              > > >born in the Dundee/Perthshire area in 1538. His son, William is
              > also
              > > >noted as being in the area as Sheriff of Forfar and then Burgess
              of
              > > >Dundee 1589-1590. No dates of birth or death in given.
              William's
              > > >son was Andrew, who also died in the area (at Pitscandly, near
              > > >Forfar), no date given. Andrew had one son, GEORGE. No other
              > > >information is noted for George, and there are no other George
              > Grays
              > > >listed in any near period. If you allow a standard of 25 years
              > > >between generations beginning with Lord Patrick G., George G.
              would
              > > >have been born in the first quarter of the 1600s, and in his mid-
              > 30s
              > > >at the time of the Battle of Dunbar. That George left no
              progeny,
              > > >and is not listed as dying in Scotland. Maybe sent off in the
              > > >UNITY? Who knows?
              > > >
              > > >The Grays have been claimed as a sept of the Southerland clan
              (far
              > > >northeast Scotland), but the history of the Battle of Dunbar is
              > that
              > > >the highland clans did not participate, and that General Lesley
              > > >raised his Covenenter Army in the lowlands - Dundee and
              Perthshire
              > > >being quite close to the north across the River Tay.
              > > >
              > > >So, it is not unreasonable to speculate that Cederman's George G.
              > > >could have been the one in the right place at the right time.
              > Maybe
              > > >there is a paper-trail somewhere in the Forfar/Pitscandly area.
              > > >
              > > >Dave Fisher
              > > >
              > >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > SPONSORED LINKS
              > American family home insurance American family home
              insurance company American family home owner insurance
              Prisoners of war Multi family home for sale Single family home
              for sale
              >
              > ---------------------------------
              > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
              >
              >
              > Visit your group "ScottishWarPrisoners" on the web.
              >
              > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
              > ScottishWarPrisoners-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
              >
              > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
              Service.
              >
              >
              > ---------------------------------
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > ---------------------------------
              > Yahoo! FareChase - Search multiple travel sites in one click.
              >
              > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              >
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