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Re: [ScottishWarPrisoners] Re: RE:Battle of Dunbar

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  • Ericka Morgan
    Dave, Wow, where d you find that book? Could you look for Robert Abernathy while you are at it? If anyone could every circulate such a list, it would be
    Message 1 of 8 , Nov 15, 2005
      Dave,
      Wow, where'd you find that book? Could you look for Robert Abernathy while you are at it? If anyone could every circulate such a list, it would be wonderful. I know that Robert Abernathy was inthe Battle of Dunbar and the Battle of Worcester, and that he came over in or around 1652. He was an indentured servant for several years and then began a long history of farming in Brunswick County, Virginia. If you see an Abernathy (or Abernethy) on the list, please let me know!-Ericka Morgan

      Dave Fisher <stonehorse148@...> wrote:
      Jan,

      There is no known ship list for the UNITY, at least on this side of
      the pond. The Saugus Iron works may have some information, or
      leads. I am not at home in VA now, but I have a book listing
      Scottish prisoners, and includes prisoners transported in JOHN &
      SARAH. I'll check it out when I get back.

      Dave (of George Gray)

      --- In ScottishWarPrisoners@yahoogroups.com, "Larry Highman"
      <medievaltents@h...> wrote:
      >
      > Hi Dave,
      >
      > Thank you for joining the list. My ancestor was Daniel Cone. We
      don't know
      > if his name was changed, he may have been the Daniel McHoe on the
      John and
      > Sara (I believe, the ship of prisoners from the Battle of
      Worcester). Our
      > family history is that he was taken in the Battle of Dunbar. We
      found a
      > reference that he was born in Edinburgh, but I think that was
      assumed from
      > his death certificate (Haddam CT). I appreciate what you have
      added about
      > the history of the men fighting at Dunbar. I had not heard that
      Gen Leslie
      > raised the troops from the lowlands. Do you have any more gems?
      Is there a
      > passenger manifest for the Unity?
      >
      >
      >
      > Jan (Cone) Highman
      >
      >
      >
      > >>>
      > >I too am a direct relative of George Gray on my mother's side
      > >(grandmother Myrtle Gray (decd.) of Georgetown, MA). I realize
      that
      > >the early affairs of G.G. are a bit hazy (gray!?). While poking
      > >about for information, I came up on the comprehensive Cederman
      > >geneology ( http://www.cederman.com/genealogy/ ) with notations of
      a
      > >(the?) Gray family. Within it I note that a Lord Patrick Gray was
      > >born in the Dundee/Perthshire area in 1538. His son, William is
      also
      > >noted as being in the area as Sheriff of Forfar and then Burgess of
      > >Dundee 1589-1590. No dates of birth or death in given. William's
      > >son was Andrew, who also died in the area (at Pitscandly, near
      > >Forfar), no date given. Andrew had one son, GEORGE. No other
      > >information is noted for George, and there are no other George
      Grays
      > >listed in any near period. If you allow a standard of 25 years
      > >between generations beginning with Lord Patrick G., George G. would
      > >have been born in the first quarter of the 1600s, and in his mid-
      30s
      > >at the time of the Battle of Dunbar. That George left no progeny,
      > >and is not listed as dying in Scotland. Maybe sent off in the
      > >UNITY? Who knows?
      > >
      > >The Grays have been claimed as a sept of the Southerland clan (far
      > >northeast Scotland), but the history of the Battle of Dunbar is
      that
      > >the highland clans did not participate, and that General Lesley
      > >raised his Covenenter Army in the lowlands - Dundee and Perthshire
      > >being quite close to the north across the River Tay.
      > >
      > >So, it is not unreasonable to speculate that Cederman's George G.
      > >could have been the one in the right place at the right time.
      Maybe
      > >there is a paper-trail somewhere in the Forfar/Pitscandly area.
      > >
      > >Dave Fisher
      > >
      >






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    • Cathy Lemar
      Those 1,400 survivors were still a threat to Cromwell s Commonwealth, and the government ordered their exile from the British isles. Five hundred were sold
      Message 2 of 8 , Nov 15, 2005
        Those 1,400 survivors were still a threat to Cromwell's Commonwealth, and
        the government ordered their exile from the British isles. Five hundred were
        sold into the French army to fight in Spain, and nine hundred were sold as
        indentured servants to the New World. Most went to Virginia, but 150 on
        November 11 were put aboard a ship named the Unity captained by Augustine
        Walker out of London bound for Boston. Conditions aboard ship for the
        Scottish prisoners were little better than on slaving ships, and we do not
        know how many died during the voyage. But we do know that in Boston 25 were
        sold to a sawmill on the Piscataqua River in Maine, and 62 were sent to the
        Saugus by The Company of Undertakers of the Iron Works of New England. These
        are the men whom we are commemorating today.

        Soon after they arrived here one of their number, Davidson, died of poor
        health, probably from the sea voyage. Seventeen were sent back to Boston to
        work in the company's warehouses. Five to ten were sold off to work off
        their indenture in local businesses and homes. The remainder lived and
        worked here at the Saugus Iron Works, serving as forge hands, colliers,
        blacksmiths, miners, woodcutters, and domestics. Their names include John
        Toish, James Mackall, John Mackshane, Thomas Tower, John Clark, John
        Steward, James Gourdan, James Adams, and many others. In time some married
        and raised families whose descendants are among us here today.

        We are gathered here today to remember the souls of those Scots who lost
        their lives or their freedom fighting to defend their country at the Battle
        of Dunbar 350 years ago today. And we are gathered here specifically at the
        Saugus Iron Works to give thanks for the lives of those prisoners of that
        war who survived the rigors of their ill-treatment and exile to begin new
        families here in this country.

        http://www.tarasthistle.org/dunbar.html

        Cathy Lemar

        ----- Original Message -----
        From: "Ericka Morgan" <erickawaymorgan@...>
        To: <ScottishWarPrisoners@yahoogroups.com>
        Sent: Tuesday, November 15, 2005 8:51 PM
        Subject: Re: [ScottishWarPrisoners] Re: RE:Battle of Dunbar


        > Dave,
        > Wow, where'd you find that book? Could you look for Robert Abernathy
        > while you are at it? If anyone could every circulate such a list, it
        > would be wonderful. I know that Robert Abernathy was inthe Battle of
        > Dunbar and the Battle of Worcester, and that he came over in or around
        > 1652. He was an indentured servant for several years and then began a
        > long history of farming in Brunswick County, Virginia. If you see an
        > Abernathy (or Abernethy) on the list, please let me know!-Ericka Morgan
        >
        > Dave Fisher <stonehorse148@...> wrote:
        > Jan,
        >
        > There is no known ship list for the UNITY, at least on this side of
        > the pond. The Saugus Iron works may have some information, or
        > leads. I am not at home in VA now, but I have a book listing
        > Scottish prisoners, and includes prisoners transported in JOHN &
        > SARAH. I'll check it out when I get back.
        >
        > Dave (of George Gray)
        >
        > --- In ScottishWarPrisoners@yahoogroups.com, "Larry Highman"
        > <medievaltents@h...> wrote:
        >>
        >> Hi Dave,
        >>
        >> Thank you for joining the list. My ancestor was Daniel Cone. We
        > don't know
        >> if his name was changed, he may have been the Daniel McHoe on the
        > John and
        >> Sara (I believe, the ship of prisoners from the Battle of
        > Worcester). Our
        >> family history is that he was taken in the Battle of Dunbar. We
        > found a
        >> reference that he was born in Edinburgh, but I think that was
        > assumed from
        >> his death certificate (Haddam CT). I appreciate what you have
        > added about
        >> the history of the men fighting at Dunbar. I had not heard that
        > Gen Leslie
        >> raised the troops from the lowlands. Do you have any more gems?
        > Is there a
        >> passenger manifest for the Unity?
        >>
        >>
        >>
        >> Jan (Cone) Highman
        >>
        >>
        >>
        >> >>>
        >> >I too am a direct relative of George Gray on my mother's side
        >> >(grandmother Myrtle Gray (decd.) of Georgetown, MA). I realize
        > that
        >> >the early affairs of G.G. are a bit hazy (gray!?). While poking
        >> >about for information, I came up on the comprehensive Cederman
        >> >geneology ( http://www.cederman.com/genealogy/ ) with notations of
        > a
        >> >(the?) Gray family. Within it I note that a Lord Patrick Gray was
        >> >born in the Dundee/Perthshire area in 1538. His son, William is
        > also
        >> >noted as being in the area as Sheriff of Forfar and then Burgess of
        >> >Dundee 1589-1590. No dates of birth or death in given. William's
        >> >son was Andrew, who also died in the area (at Pitscandly, near
        >> >Forfar), no date given. Andrew had one son, GEORGE. No other
        >> >information is noted for George, and there are no other George
        > Grays
        >> >listed in any near period. If you allow a standard of 25 years
        >> >between generations beginning with Lord Patrick G., George G. would
        >> >have been born in the first quarter of the 1600s, and in his mid-
        > 30s
        >> >at the time of the Battle of Dunbar. That George left no progeny,
        >> >and is not listed as dying in Scotland. Maybe sent off in the
        >> >UNITY? Who knows?
        >> >
        >> >The Grays have been claimed as a sept of the Southerland clan (far
        >> >northeast Scotland), but the history of the Battle of Dunbar is
        > that
        >> >the highland clans did not participate, and that General Lesley
        >> >raised his Covenenter Army in the lowlands - Dundee and Perthshire
        >> >being quite close to the north across the River Tay.
        >> >
        >> >So, it is not unreasonable to speculate that Cederman's George G.
        >> >could have been the one in the right place at the right time.
        > Maybe
        >> >there is a paper-trail somewhere in the Forfar/Pitscandly area.
        >> >
        >> >Dave Fisher
        >> >
        >>
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > SPONSORED LINKS
        > American family home insurance American family home insurance
        > company American family home owner insurance Prisoners of war
        > Multi family home for sale Single family home for sale
        >
        > ---------------------------------
        > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
        >
        >
        > Visit your group "ScottishWarPrisoners" on the web.
        >
        > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
        > ScottishWarPrisoners-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
        >
        > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
        >
        >
        > ---------------------------------
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > ---------------------------------
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        >
        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > Yahoo! Groups Links
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        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
      • bob gillis
        ... The list of the Scotsmen on the John and Sarah does not contain any Abernathy or similar name. This list is contained in a letter to Thomas Kemble date 11
        Message 3 of 8 , Nov 16, 2005
          Ericka Morgan wrote:

          >Dave,
          > Wow, where'd you find that book? Could you look for Robert Abernathy while you are at it? If anyone could every circulate such a list, it would be wonderful. I know that Robert Abernathy was in the Battle of Dunbar and the Battle of Worcester, and that he came over in or around 1652. He was an indentured servant for several years and then began a long history of farming in Brunswick County, Virginia. If you see an Abernathy (or Abernethy) on the list, please let me know! Morgan
          >
          >Dave Fisher <stonehorse148@...> wrote:
          > Jan,
          >
          >There is no known ship list for the UNITY, at least on this side of
          >the pond. The Saugus Iron works may have some information, or
          >leads. I am not at home in VA now, but I have a book listing
          >Scottish prisoners, and includes prisoners transported in JOHN &
          >SARAH. I'll check it out when I get back.
          >
          The list of the Scotsmen on the John and Sarah does not contain any
          Abernathy or similar name. This list is contained in a letter to Thomas
          Kemble date 11 Nov 1651 from Robert Rich and William Greene. The letter
          was entered and recorded in the Suffolk County Deeds at the request of
          Mr Kemble.

          The list of names of the men on the John and Sarah has been transcribed
          and published in the NEHGR and several other publications.

          How do you know he was in the Battles of Dunbar and Worcester? Other
          captives at Worcester may have gone to Virginia but AFAIK, there is no
          list of them.

          bob gillis
        • Ericka Morgan
          Bob, I should say Robert Abernathy was in the Battle of Dunbar and/or the Battle of Worcester, according to a book in the geneaology collection of the Library
          Message 4 of 8 , Nov 16, 2005
            Bob,
            I should say Robert Abernathy was in the Battle of Dunbar and/or the Battle of Worcester, according to a book in the geneaology collection of the Library of Virginia, titled Descendants of Robert Abernathy. I understand that there is not a list, and do not mean to make an absolute claim-but I suppose we have to base our info on something.-Ericka Morgan

            bob gillis <robertgillis@...> wrote:
            Ericka Morgan wrote:

            >Dave,
            > Wow, where'd you find that book? Could you look for Robert Abernathy while you are at it? If anyone could every circulate such a list, it would be wonderful. I know that Robert Abernathy was in the Battle of Dunbar and the Battle of Worcester, and that he came over in or around 1652. He was an indentured servant for several years and then began a long history of farming in Brunswick County, Virginia. If you see an Abernathy (or Abernethy) on the list, please let me know! Morgan
            >
            >Dave Fisher <stonehorse148@...> wrote:
            > Jan,
            >
            >There is no known ship list for the UNITY, at least on this side of
            >the pond. The Saugus Iron works may have some information, or
            >leads. I am not at home in VA now, but I have a book listing
            >Scottish prisoners, and includes prisoners transported in JOHN &
            >SARAH. I'll check it out when I get back.
            >
            The list of the Scotsmen on the John and Sarah does not contain any
            Abernathy or similar name. This list is contained in a letter to Thomas
            Kemble date 11 Nov 1651 from Robert Rich and William Greene. The letter
            was entered and recorded in the Suffolk County Deeds at the request of
            Mr Kemble.

            The list of names of the men on the John and Sarah has been transcribed
            and published in the NEHGR and several other publications.

            How do you know he was in the Battles of Dunbar and Worcester? Other
            captives at Worcester may have gone to Virginia but AFAIK, there is no
            list of them.

            bob gillis



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            Visit your group "ScottishWarPrisoners" on the web.

            To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
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          • bob gillis
            ... I did a Google search on Robert Abernathy and found an article by Rhonda Mcclure on Genealogy.com at www.genealogy.com/askr011702.html which I have sent to
            Message 5 of 8 , Nov 17, 2005
              Ericka Morgan wrote:

              >Bob,
              > I should say Robert Abernathy was in the Battle of Dunbar and/or the Battle of Worcester, according to a book in the genealogy collection of the Library of Virginia, titled Descendants of Robert Abernathy. I understand that there is not a list, and do not mean to make an absolute claim, but I suppose we have to base our info on something.
              >
              I did a Google search on Robert Abernathy and found an article by Rhonda
              Mcclure on Genealogy.com at www.genealogy.com/askr011702.html which I
              have sent to Ericka privately and will not post on this list for
              copyright concerns.

              Basically there is no direct evidence that he fought at Dunbar or
              Worcester and she had only secondary sources that he was in Virginia in
              1651.

              Rhonda Mcclure has written other articles on the Scottish Prisoners.

              bob gillis

              bob gillis
            • Dave Fisher
              Unfortunately, no McHoe, or anything close appears in the book. Many entries concerning the ship JOHN AND SARAH though. The only Abernathy (Abernethy) noted
              Message 6 of 8 , Nov 18, 2005
                Unfortunately, no McHoe, or anything close appears in the book. Many
                entries concerning the ship JOHN AND SARAH though.

                The only Abernathy (Abernethy) noted is:

                "ABERNETHY JANET
                Daughter of William Abernethy
                deceased, in Old Manse of Foveran. Petty thief. Banished
                at Aberdeen. Transported on
                BETSY, master James Ramsay.
                Landed Port of James River
                Upper District 29 April 1772"

                Thus is the typical entry in the book. The James River is in
                Virginia, and the "Upper District" could be no further inland than
                the Fall Line at Richmond.

                Directory of Scots Banished to the American Plantations 1650-1775
                by David Dobson
                Geneological Publishing Co., Baltimore, 1983
                ISBN 0-8063-1035-9, LCCN 83-81052

                Sorry no more information. My guy isn't in it either.

                Dave

                --- In ScottishWarPrisoners@yahoogroups.com, Ericka Morgan
                <erickawaymorgan@y...> wrote:
                >
                > Dave,
                > Wow, where'd you find that book? Could you look for Robert
                Abernathy while you are at it? If anyone could every circulate such
                a list, it would be wonderful. I know that Robert Abernathy was
                inthe Battle of Dunbar and the Battle of Worcester, and that he came
                over in or around 1652. He was an indentured servant for several
                years and then began a long history of farming in Brunswick County,
                Virginia. If you see an Abernathy (or Abernethy) on the list, please
                let me know!-Ericka Morgan
                >
                > Dave Fisher <stonehorse148@y...> wrote:
                > Jan,
                >
                > There is no known ship list for the UNITY, at least on this side of
                > the pond. The Saugus Iron works may have some information, or
                > leads. I am not at home in VA now, but I have a book listing
                > Scottish prisoners, and includes prisoners transported in JOHN &
                > SARAH. I'll check it out when I get back.
                >
                > Dave (of George Gray)
                >
                > --- In ScottishWarPrisoners@yahoogroups.com, "Larry Highman"
                > <medievaltents@h...> wrote:
                > >
                > > Hi Dave,
                > >
                > > Thank you for joining the list. My ancestor was Daniel Cone. We
                > don't know
                > > if his name was changed, he may have been the Daniel McHoe on the
                > John and
                > > Sara (I believe, the ship of prisoners from the Battle of
                > Worcester). Our
                > > family history is that he was taken in the Battle of Dunbar. We
                > found a
                > > reference that he was born in Edinburgh, but I think that was
                > assumed from
                > > his death certificate (Haddam CT). I appreciate what you have
                > added about
                > > the history of the men fighting at Dunbar. I had not heard that
                > Gen Leslie
                > > raised the troops from the lowlands. Do you have any more gems?
                > Is there a
                > > passenger manifest for the Unity?
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > > Jan (Cone) Highman
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > > >>>
                > > >I too am a direct relative of George Gray on my mother's side
                > > >(grandmother Myrtle Gray (decd.) of Georgetown, MA). I realize
                > that
                > > >the early affairs of G.G. are a bit hazy (gray!?). While poking
                > > >about for information, I came up on the comprehensive Cederman
                > > >geneology ( http://www.cederman.com/genealogy/ ) with notations
                of
                > a
                > > >(the?) Gray family. Within it I note that a Lord Patrick Gray
                was
                > > >born in the Dundee/Perthshire area in 1538. His son, William is
                > also
                > > >noted as being in the area as Sheriff of Forfar and then Burgess
                of
                > > >Dundee 1589-1590. No dates of birth or death in given.
                William's
                > > >son was Andrew, who also died in the area (at Pitscandly, near
                > > >Forfar), no date given. Andrew had one son, GEORGE. No other
                > > >information is noted for George, and there are no other George
                > Grays
                > > >listed in any near period. If you allow a standard of 25 years
                > > >between generations beginning with Lord Patrick G., George G.
                would
                > > >have been born in the first quarter of the 1600s, and in his mid-
                > 30s
                > > >at the time of the Battle of Dunbar. That George left no
                progeny,
                > > >and is not listed as dying in Scotland. Maybe sent off in the
                > > >UNITY? Who knows?
                > > >
                > > >The Grays have been claimed as a sept of the Southerland clan
                (far
                > > >northeast Scotland), but the history of the Battle of Dunbar is
                > that
                > > >the highland clans did not participate, and that General Lesley
                > > >raised his Covenenter Army in the lowlands - Dundee and
                Perthshire
                > > >being quite close to the north across the River Tay.
                > > >
                > > >So, it is not unreasonable to speculate that Cederman's George G.
                > > >could have been the one in the right place at the right time.
                > Maybe
                > > >there is a paper-trail somewhere in the Forfar/Pitscandly area.
                > > >
                > > >Dave Fisher
                > > >
                > >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                > SPONSORED LINKS
                > American family home insurance American family home
                insurance company American family home owner insurance
                Prisoners of war Multi family home for sale Single family home
                for sale
                >
                > ---------------------------------
                > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
                >
                >
                > Visit your group "ScottishWarPrisoners" on the web.
                >
                > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                > ScottishWarPrisoners-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                >
                > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
                Service.
                >
                >
                > ---------------------------------
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                > ---------------------------------
                > Yahoo! FareChase - Search multiple travel sites in one click.
                >
                > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                >
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