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Re: Battles of Dunbar and Worcester

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  • dunbarbill
    I would like to clarify a point about the Dunbar/Worcester prisoners and the cause of their transfer to various places inside and outside of England. Cromwell
    Message 1 of 9 , Mar 14, 2004
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      I would like to clarify a point about the Dunbar/Worcester prisoners
      and the cause of their transfer to various places inside and outside
      of England.

      Cromwell or the English in general did not send the war prisoners
      aywhere except to prison. The government did offer the prisoners to
      various merchants and business ventures for sale. Whoever purchased
      the prisoners determined the final destination within some broad
      guidelines.

      The prisoners ended up in New England and other places, especially
      the
      Caribean, because the merchants that purchased their services
      transported and sold the indentures in open markets in the colonies.
      Those sold in England to work in England were transported to work in
      various types of ventures. If memory serves me these included
      weaving businesses and mines among other businesses.

      Take care,

      Bill Budde

      --- In ScottishWarPrisoners@yahoogroups.com, SusanG1400@a... wrote:
      > Several persons have asked recently where in the Western
      Hemisphere
      > Scotsmen taken prisoner at the Battles of Dunbar and Worcester
      were sent by Oliver
      > Cromwell. Oliver Cromwell sent these Scots prisoners to
      Massachusetts Bay
      > Colony, New Hampshire, Virginia, East New Jersey (Originally New
      Jersey was two
      > colonies: East New Jersey and West New Jersey.) and the British-
      controlled
      > islands of Jamaica and Barbados in the West Indies.
      > Someone asked on what other ships besides the John and Sara the
      prisoners
      > were sent to the Western Hemisphere. One other ship was the Henry
      and Francis
      > . It left from Leith Scotland on September 5, 1685. It took
      prisoners to
      > East New Jersey.
      > The Scots prisoners were sent to so many different places
      because the
      > English settlers in the American Colonies were afraid that if all
      these Scots
      > were sent to the same place, they might rebel.
      > There is a book that lists all the prisoners transported in
      alphabetical
      > order by last name and tells the names of the ship they were sent
      on, where in
      > the Western Hemisphere they were sent, and the date the ships left
      Great
      > Britain and from what port in Great Britain the ships left. I
      studied this book
      > at the Library of Congress in Washington, D.C. You cannot take
      books out from
      > this library. You can probably order this book on Interlibrary
      Loan from your
      > local public library. Your local library can obtain it from
      another library
      > in the United States for you. This book is:
      >
      > Directory of Scots Banished to the American Plantations 1650 -
      1775 by David
      > Dobson, published Baltimore, Maryland: Genealogical Publishing
      Co., Inc. 1983.
      >
      > Mr. Dobson resides in Scotland.
      > My 82-year-old mother's great-grandfather, Walter Jackson
      of Scotland,
      > fought at the Battle of Worcester for Charles II. He was not an
      officer. We
      > are trying to find out in what unit he fought. Maybe if we knew
      this fact,
      > we could then find out where in Scotland he was born. Walter
      Jackson was sent
      > in the ship John and Sarah. In 1683 Walter Jackson died in
      Durham, New
      > Hampshire.
      >
      > Sincerely,
      >
      > Susan M. Grady
      > Alexandria, Virginia
      >
      >
      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • dunbarbill
      In my previous reply I forgot to mention one other point. The prisoners transported on the Henry and Francis in 1685 were not prisoners of the English Civil
      Message 2 of 9 , Mar 14, 2004
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        In my previous reply I forgot to mention one other point. The
        prisoners transported on the Henry and Francis in 1685 were not
        prisoners of the English Civil Wars, nor related to the prisoners
        captured at Dunbar and Worcester. The battles of Dunbar (1650) and
        Worcester (1651) took place 35 years earlier.

        Yours aye,

        Bill Budde

        --- In ScottishWarPrisoners@y
        ahoogroups.com, SusanG1400@a... wrote:
        > Several persons have asked recently where in the Western
        Hemisphere
        > Scotsmen taken prisoner at the Battles of Dunbar and Worcester
        were sent by Oliver
        > Cromwell. Oliver Cromwell sent these Scots prisoners to
        Massachusetts Bay
        > Colony, New Hampshire, Virginia, East New Jersey (Originally New
        Jersey was two
        > colonies: East New Jersey and West New Jersey.) and the British-
        controlled
        > islands of Jamaica and Barbados in the West Indies.
        > Someone asked on what other ships besides the John and Sara the
        prisoners
        > were sent to the Western Hemisphere. One other ship was the Henry
        and Francis
        > . It left from Leith Scotland on September 5, 1685. It took
        prisoners to
        > East New Jersey.
        > The Scots prisoners were sent to so many different places
        because the
        > English settlers in the American Colonies were afraid that if all
        these Scots
        > were sent to the same place, they might rebel.
        > There is a book that lists all the prisoners transported in
        alphabetical
        > order by last name and tells the names of the ship they were sent
        on, where in
        > the Western Hemisphere they were sent, and the date the ships left
        Great
        > Britain and from what port in Great Britain the ships left. I
        studied this book
        > at the Library of Congress in Washington, D.C. You cannot take
        books out from
        > this library. You can probably order this book on Interlibrary
        Loan from your
        > local public library. Your local library can obtain it from
        another library
        > in the United States for you. This book is:
        >
        > Directory of Scots Banished to the American Plantations 1650 -
        1775 by David
        > Dobson, published Baltimore, Maryland: Genealogical Publishing
        Co., Inc. 1983.
        >
        > Mr. Dobson resides in Scotland.
        > My 82-year-old mother's great-grandfather, Walter Jackson
        of Scotland,
        > fought at the Battle of Worcester for Charles II. He was not an
        officer. We
        > are trying to find out in what unit he fought. Maybe if we knew
        this fact,
        > we could then find out where in Scotland he was born. Walter
        Jackson was sent
        > in the ship John and Sarah. In 1683 Walter Jackson died in
        Durham, New
        > Hampshire.
        >
        > Sincerely,
        >
        > Susan M. Grady
        > Alexandria, Virginia
        >
        >
        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • J.Gray
        Hello all. My great great.....Grandfather was sent to this country on a ship called Unity in 1650. He worked in a saw mill in Berwick,Me. He was a prisoner of
        Message 3 of 9 , Mar 14, 2004
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          Hello all.
          My great great.....Grandfather was sent to
          this country on a ship called Unity in 1650.
          He worked in a saw mill in Berwick,Me.
          He was a prisoner of the Battle of Dunbar in 1650.
          Thought I might mention this in case someone might be
          trying to follow their relatives steps from Scotland
          to the USA. Not all the prisoners worked at The Saugus
          Iron works. Good luck in your search

          __________________________________
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        • Tom Cone
          I believe that an ancestor of mine, Acey Cone, had a father on the John and Sara, Neil Mackhoe (or something). He landed in Virginia, and that s about all I
          Message 4 of 9 , Mar 14, 2004
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            I believe that an ancestor of mine, "Acey" Cone, had a
            father on the John and Sara, Neil Mackhoe (or
            something). He landed in Virginia, and that's about
            all I "know"

            Any help would be appreciated.

            =====
            "Dot is the reason Karadon kills clones!"
            - The cast of ANOA:Enclaves

            "Can Suhuy and I go back to creating balance now?"
            -Dot

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          • Amraff@aol.com
            Who was your great great ,,,,grandfather? I have two connections to Berwick s Unity section through the war prisoners. Mine are George Gray and William
            Message 5 of 9 , Mar 17, 2004
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              Who was your great great ,,,,grandfather? I have two connections to
              Berwick's Unity section through the war prisoners. Mine are George Gray and William
              Gowen, possibly others like Lewis Bean and Thomas Holmes. Anne


              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • J.Gray
              My great,great...grandfather is also George Gray. Looking to find out more about him. __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - More
              Message 6 of 9 , Mar 18, 2004
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                My great,great...grandfather is also George Gray.
                Looking to find out more about him.

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              • Dave Fisher
                I too am a direct relative of George Gray on my mother s side (grandmother Myrtle Gray (decd.) of Georgetown, MA). I realize that the early affairs of G.G.
                Message 7 of 9 , Nov 8, 2005
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                  I too am a direct relative of George Gray on my mother's side
                  (grandmother Myrtle Gray (decd.) of Georgetown, MA). I realize that
                  the early affairs of G.G. are a bit hazy (gray!?). While poking
                  about for information, I came up on the comprehensive Cederman
                  geneology ( http://www.cederman.com/genealogy/ ) with notations of a
                  (the?) Gray family. Within it I note that a Lord Patrick Gray was
                  born in the Dundee/Perthshire area in 1538. His son, William is also
                  noted as being in the area as Sheriff of Forfar and then Burgess of
                  Dundee 1589-1590. No dates of birth or death in given. William's
                  son was Andrew, who also died in the area (at Pitscandly, near
                  Forfar), no date given. Andrew had one son, GEORGE. No other
                  information is noted for George, and there are no other George Grays
                  listed in any near period. If you allow a standard of 25 years
                  between generations beginning with Lord Patrick G., George G. would
                  have been born in the first quarter of the 1600s, and in his mid-30s
                  at the time of the Battle of Dunbar. That George left no progeny,
                  and is not listed as dying in Scotland. Maybe sent off in the
                  UNITY? Who knows?

                  The Grays have been claimed as a sept of the Southerland clan (far
                  northeast Scotland), but the history of the Battle of Dunbar is that
                  the highland clans did not participate, and that General Lesley
                  raised his Covenenter Army in the lowlands - Dundee and Perthshire
                  being quite close to the north across the River Tay.

                  So, it is not unreasonable to speculate that Cederman's George G.
                  could have been the one in the right place at the right time. Maybe
                  there is a paper-trail somewhere in the Forfar/Pitscandly area.

                  Dave Fisher

                  --- In ScottishWarPrisoners@yahoogroups.com, "J.Gray" <graysnh@y...>
                  wrote:
                  >
                  > My great,great...grandfather is also George Gray.
                  > Looking to find out more about him.
                  >
                  > __________________________________
                  > Do you Yahoo!?
                  > Yahoo! Mail - More reliable, more storage, less spam
                  > http://mail.yahoo.com
                  >
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