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Re: [SciFiNoir Lit] How to Get More Blacks to Read Speculative Fiction

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  • Chris Hayden
    ... don t ... bad stories. ...
    Message 1 of 40 , Aug 7, 2006
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      --- In SciFiNoir_Lit@yahoogroups.com, gcuse03champs@... wrote:
      >
      > I was only answering a question and I am being honest when I say I
      don't
      > attach a color to Science Fiction as I only see good stories and
      bad stories.
      >
      <<That is good. That is exemplary. In a perfect world that is what
      we should have.

      We do not live in a perfect world. I know you mean well. I could be
      wrong but you are probably one of these people that sees Speculative
      Fiction as a method for building one world, erasing racial
      differences, bringing about a color blind society, etc. etc.

      I wish you luck if you do.

      I have been watching people try to do this for fifty years and they
      have failed utterly. I do not expect to see it in my lifetime and
      maybe, after a while there shouldn't be.

      There are groups out here, like Sisters Nineties and Yari Yari, who
      are already engaged in seeking a sense of self by studying their own
      culture. The culture produced by Africans and African Americans.
      They are doing it because they do not get it in the schools.

      They have been dismissive of SF because it has excluded them. As
      John Clute stated in his encyclopedia of Science Fiction, "It was not
      a literature intended for the Dispossessed"

      They want to read SF by people like them. Write it themselves.

      This is their right. There are all these groups that write their own
      SF--femnist, gay, etc. Do you feel the same way about the?

      Very few people see it the way you do, by the way. Read the
      struggles of Black SF writers--even the successful one, if you think
      they do. Look at what has happened to Steve Barne's alternative
      history books--the lack of push in the SF pres, etc>>

      > I don't thing black sci fi writers should either.

      <<That is fine. Others don't think so. There is room for both sides-
      -there had better be>>


      The origin of this post
      > was about marketing to black science fiction fans.

      <<Wrong. It was marketing science fiction to black folks. Big
      difference. From my experience you do not have to write black to
      market to black science fiction fans>>

      I am saying it's very hard
      > because many black sci fi fans wont even admit they like sci fi
      publicly and
      > the majority just don't like it not because they don't understand
      it but many
      > don't have time for made up stuff that they can't relate to with
      all the
      > difficulty of just being black in their lives.

      <<See above>>

      >
      > The first thing a writer must do is know his audience

      <<The audience we are speaking of is black folks. Not black science
      fiction fans.>>

      and for sci fi writers
      > to realize that no one has a problem with "black" science fiction
      but you
      > are make a small niche market even smaller by labeling yourself.

      <<That is for them--us--to worry about. And again you need to read
      stuff like Delaney's essay about racism in Science Fiction.

      But let me say this. When Buddy Bolden and them guys were blowing
      their crazy ratty music in Storyville back in the early 1900's, that
      music that mixed in ragtime and spirituals and blues, music
      lovers,especially whites and proper negroes, looked down on it.

      That music, known now as jazz, went on to conquer the world. Same
      thing with bebop, rhythm and blues, hip hop, etc.

      If you do your thang well, people come around.
      >
      >
      > George L. Cook III author of Let's Talk Honestly Vol. 2
      > A book of poetry and essays on African American Issues
      > Read ebook for free here:
      > _http://www.letstalkhonestly.com/page/page/3118263.htm_
      (http://www.letstalkhonestly.com/page/page/3118263.htm)
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      >
    • Chris Hayden
      Message 40 of 40 , Aug 10, 2006
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        <<I think it would be better if you used your enourmous influence and
        staggering brainpower to affect change in your arena--publishing
        articles and books(you could even have some of use help a little with
        research, or use your assistants (they get credit for it, don't
        they), getting the books in your library, getting some courses on the
        curriculum, bringing it up in faculty meetings, using your
        spellbinding oration and big, booming bull-like voice to speak and
        lecture tirelessly from dusk to dawn 24/7)

        But a list would not hurt.

        It would help even more if it was a list of stuff that each
        contributor had successfully accomplished.>>

        --- In SciFiNoir_Lit@yahoogroups.com, "Dr. Lester K Spence"
        <kspence@...> wrote:
        >
        > Chris, every idea I came up with could work for SOMEONE.
        >
        > But that's not the point.
        >
        > If ten people on this list came up with ten different ideas on how
        to
        > market science fiction to black readers, that would be ONE HUNDRED
        > MORE IDEAS THAN EXIST ANYWHERE ON THE INTERNET.
        >
        > What your "actions" here say is that you are more interested in
        > cutting down the ideas of others, than you are doing work.
        >
        > Work needed to build the community of readers you say you want.
        >
        > Why are you quick to cut, but slow to build?
        > *****
        >
        >
        > I like this list. I see it as having the potential to put black
        > science fiction writers and readers on the map.
        >
        > I think a list of tips for black science fiction writers is a
        > worthwhile project.
        >
        > Would those with other ideas please send them to the list?
        >
        >
        > thanks
        > lks
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > On Aug 9, 2006, at 6:04 PM, Chris Hayden wrote:
        >
        > > <<I came up with one that worked. You came up with ten that you
        > > think might. Lester you ain't come up with one idea that you ever
        put
        > > into practice yourself.
        > >
        > > But what do they say?
        > >
        > > Those who can do. Those who can't teach.
        > >
        > > Ta ta.
        > >
        > > --- In SciFiNoir_Lit@yahoogroups.com, "Dr. Lester K Spence"
        > > <kspence@> wrote:
        > > >
        > > > "get them where they at" doesn't mean ANYTHING.
        > > >
        > > > if it isn't hard to come up with workable ideas, COME UP WITH
        SOME.
        > > >
        > > > i came up with ten in about fifteen minutes.
        > > >
        > > > you're the sf author. come up with ten more. that's how you can
        > > help.
        > > >
        > > >
        > > > lks
        > > >
        > > >
        > > > On Aug 9, 2006, at 10:17 AM, Chris Hayden wrote:
        > > >
        > > > > <<Ten is a totally arbitrary number. I started all this when I
        > > came
        > > > > up with one that seems to work.
        > > > >
        > > > > If I have tried some of your suggestions, and seen them fall
        on
        > > their
        > > > > butts, and remain mute, am I helping?
        > > >
        > > >
        > > > > Take for instance your suggestions that we approach black
        > > sororities
        > > > > and fraternities.
        > > > >
        > > > > I tried that with my own novel, A Vampyre Blues. Didn't even
        get
        > > any
        > > > > responses.
        > > > >
        > > > > Talked it over with a friend who is in a frat.
        > > > >
        > > > > He asked first of all what frat I am a member of. None. Strike
        > > three
        > > > > and you're out.
        > > > > They are social organizations. They respond first and
        foremost to
        > > > > members of that organization. Or somebody who is offering
        > > something
        > > > > that will further the purposes or operation of the
        organization.
        > > > >
        > > > > Now, a person who belongs to a frat or a sorority will be
        able to
        > > at
        > > > > least get an ear. They will face some problems in that they
        will
        > > > > need some angle that helps the organization.
        > > > >
        > > > > I remember a person posting here who was a member of one of
        these
        > > > > organizations who stated that his SF world he kept totally
        > > separate
        > > > > from the frat world. There was an opportunity lost--but
        that's on
        > > > > them, I cannot force them.
        > > > >
        > > > > In addition to going where the people AT, we need to be able
        to
        > > > > operate where WE at. Somebody came up with the idea of
        enlisting a
        > > > > rapper. If you know a rapper go to it. If you do not, you are
        wee
        > > > > weeing in the wind from what I have seen.
        > > > >
        > > > > I believe it was Booker T. who said, "Cast down your buckets
        where
        > > > > you are."
        > > > >
        > > > > You came up with lots of suggestions. That is fairly easy to
        do,
        > > you
        > > > > know.
        > > > >
        > > > > Look at yourself. You are teaching at a University. You did
        not
        > > > > mention talking to the faculty where you are, forming an
        > > organization
        > > > > on campus, getting some courses started, lecturing, publishing
        > > books
        > > > > or articles on black SF, that sort of thing.
        > > > >
        > > > > I am serious about this enough to have gone and taken an
        > > opportunity
        > > > > that I might have used solely to advance my own writings--I
        am a
        > > > > writer--to advance the cause, if you will, of Black SF.
        Grandiose
        > > > > plans that others will have to put into place have a certain
        > > > > attraction--but I think we should try to get on the practical
        > > side,
        > > > > too.
        > > > >
        > > > > After all, even though we read fantasy and write it that
        doesn't
        > > mean
        > > > > we have to live in a fantasy world.
        > > > >
        > > > > --- In SciFiNoir_Lit@yahoogroups.com, "Dr. Lester K Spence"
        > > > > <kspence@> wrote:
        > > > > >
        > > > > > Chris, when you asked for solutions, I first tripped...then
        said
        > > > > what
        > > > > > the hell. Started out with ten.
        > > > > >
        > > > > > I KNOW there are problems with the ten I proposed. I just
        wrote
        > > > > down
        > > > > > ideas off the rip.
        > > > > >
        > > > > > Come up with another ten that works.
        > > > > >
        > > > > > Then get anyone that criticizes YOUR ten to come up with
        another
        > > > > ten.
        > > > > >
        > > > > > Then get people who are writers to come up with another ten.
        > > > > >
        > > > > > Then put it all on a website somewhere.
        > > > > >
        > > > > >
        > > > > >
        > > > > > lks
        > > > > >
        > > > >
        > > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        > > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        >
        >
        >
        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        >
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