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Do black Fantasy authors exist??

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  • mccartjf
    Can someone list Black authors of Fantasy (Sword and Sorcery type genre not Science Fiction). I m curious to know are there any published works out there.
    Message 1 of 17 , Dec 9, 2004
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      Can someone list Black authors of Fantasy (Sword and Sorcery type
      genre not Science Fiction). I'm curious to know are there any
      published works out there.
    • Joy F, Nubian Sistas Book Club
      Hello everyone, I ve been lurking in the corner of this group for a while and I thought I should finally introduce myself. My name is Joy and I live in South
      Message 2 of 17 , Dec 9, 2004
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        Hello everyone,

        I've been lurking in the corner of this group for a while and I thought I should finally introduce myself. My name is Joy and I live in South Florida. I'm the founder of Nubian Sistas Book Club and an avid reader. I just wanted to say I read many of your posts and although I never sent any of my own, I throughly enjoyed them.

        Planning to participate more,



        Joy Farrington

        www.nubiansistas.org














        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Nora
        ... Most black fantasy authors are not sword and sorcery authors. S&S is a subgenre of fantasy that s popular, but not the whole of fantasy by far (thank
        Message 3 of 17 , Dec 9, 2004
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          > -----Original Message-----
          > From: mccartjf [mailto:mccartjf@...]
          > Can someone list Black authors of Fantasy (Sword and Sorcery type
          > genre not Science Fiction). I'm curious to know are there any
          > published works out there.

          Most black fantasy authors are not "sword and sorcery" authors. S&S is a
          subgenre of fantasy that's popular, but not the whole of fantasy by far
          (thank God). However, if it's just S&S that you're looking for, Charles
          Saunders' IMARO novels qualify.

          If you're looking at fantasy as a whole and not just S&S, there's also the
          following, who are all African-American, Afro-Canadian, or Afro-Caribbean
          women (or some combination of the three):

          Nnedi Okorafor-Mbachu (http://www2.uic.edu/~nokora1/fiction.html)
          Nalo Hopkinson (http://www.sff.net/people/nalo/)
          Nisi Shawl (http://www.sfwa.org/members/shawl/)

          And there's a whole slew of short-story authors who haven't done novels yet.
          I believe there are actually quite a few of these who are "hidden" among the
          masses of short stories published each year, because I know I see lots of
          black women in the photos of each year's Clarions or other workshops, and
          *some* of them must be publishing. (Once my story "L'Alchimista" gets
          published in the SCATTERED, COVERED, SMOTHERED anthology this month, I'll be
          one of them! I have an SF story up at Ideomancer, but you were asking about
          fantasy. Yes, this is a shameless plug =P)

          Also, I think Octavia Butler's Patternist series can be read as fantasy as
          well as SF. There are lots of fantasy novels written by non-black authors
          which show magic-users as a separate species and the talent for magic as a
          genetically-inherited ability, so I don't see why Doro and his flock
          shouldn't qualify. What's the real difference between "psionics" and
          "mind-magic", anyway?

          And although she's classified as horror, Tananarive Due's stuff could
          probably fit into "dark fantasy" too.

          ...But what I want to know is, where are the brothas? Since Saunders, I
          haven't seen any black males writing fantasy. What's up with that? Too
          girly for them or something??

          Nora
        • mccartjf
          Very interesting. I didn t expect a rapid response, but it s nice to know you guys are out there. I was searching far and wide for authors in that genre
          Message 4 of 17 , Dec 9, 2004
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            Very interesting. I didn't expect a rapid response, but it's nice
            to know you guys are out there.

            I was searching far and wide for authors in that genre because that
            is what I enjoy reading, more so than Science Fiction, Terry Brooks,
            and Salvatore being some of my favorites, but of course they are not
            of color. I'm also surprised to hear that Black Woman are prominent
            in that realm, I was shocked to read that.

            I am personally writing a Novel with S & S and I was just wondering
            if they(black authors) were out there, and would I be in small
            company.

            Although I love S&S i've always wished it was more than, how can I
            say it, euro. Realizing that mainstream is not eager to glamorize
            or romanticize much of anything in ancient Africa, I took it upon
            myself. Much so for me than for others.

            Thanks for the resources and feedback.
          • belsidus2000
            Cecil Washington s sword and sorcery novel is titled DWOOR Chris Hayden
            Message 5 of 17 , Dec 9, 2004
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              Cecil Washington's sword and sorcery novel is titled DWOOR

              Chris Hayden

              -- In SciFiNoir_Lit@yahoogroups.com, "mccartjf" <mccartjf@y...> wrote:
              >
              > Can someone list Black authors of Fantasy (Sword and Sorcery type
              > genre not Science Fiction). I'm curious to know are there any
              > published works out there.
            • Nora
              ... Slow day at work. =) ... They re not Sword & Sorcery, though. I ve only read Okorafor-Mbachu s Magical Negro story, which was more of a literary
              Message 6 of 17 , Dec 9, 2004
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                > -----Original Message-----
                > From: mccartjf [mailto:mccartjf@...]
                > Very interesting. I didn't expect a rapid response, but it's
                > nice to know you guys are out there.

                Slow day at work. =)

                > I was searching far and wide for authors in that genre because that
                > is what I enjoy reading, more so than Science Fiction, Terry Brooks,
                > and Salvatore being some of my favorites, but of course they are not
                > of color. I'm also surprised to hear that Black Woman are prominent
                > in that realm, I was shocked to read that.

                They're not Sword & Sorcery, though. I've only read Okorafor-Mbachu's
                "Magical Negro" story, which was more of a literary cautionary tale/satire
                than anything else. Hopkinson's stuff is part SF, and heavily influenced by
                Caribbean folklore -- there's action in some of her stories, but not of the
                sword-hacking kind. I've never read Nisi Shawl's fiction.

                > I am personally writing a Novel with S & S and I was just wondering
                > if they(black authors) were out there, and would I be in small
                > company.
                > Although I love S&S i've always wished it was more than, how can I
                > say it, euro. Realizing that mainstream is not eager to glamorize
                > or romanticize much of anything in ancient Africa, I took it upon
                > myself. Much so for me than for others.

                ::nodnodnod:: I'm always glad to see more sistahs out there writing in spec
                fic! Especially one who's looking at expanding upon the Eurocentric
                traditions of fantasy as they currently exist. My own novel doesn't involve
                many swords, but it definitely has sorcery, and I did a bit of romanticizing
                ancient Egypt and Nubia in the process. I've gotten a lot of help from the
                folks here and on the Carl Brandon list about making it saleworthy and
                coherent, and about the realities and possibilities of the market, so if
                you're looking for help along those lines, the people here are great. =)
                Welcome!

                Nora
                ---
                Epiphany
                http://home.earthlink.net/~njem

                Viable Paradise
                http://www.sff.net/paradise/
              • mccartjf
                ... from the ... and ... so if ... great. =) ... Hey, I m doing the same. I find Ancient Egypt and Nubia quite fascinating, especially when you discover
                Message 7 of 17 , Dec 9, 2004
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                  >..... and I did a bit of romanticizing
                  > ancient Egypt and Nubia in the process. I've gotten a lot of help
                  from the
                  > folks here and on the Carl Brandon list about making it saleworthy
                  and
                  > coherent, and about the realities and possibilities of the market,
                  so if
                  > you're looking for help along those lines, the people here are
                  great. =)
                  > Welcome!
                  >
                  Hey, I'm doing the same. I find Ancient Egypt and Nubia quite
                  fascinating, especially when you discover things that have been so
                  misinterpreted by mainstream. I'm writing along those lines, and
                  adding a bit of the traditional Fantasy characters along with some
                  of the Egyptian and Nubian mythological characters and with a bit of
                  my own original creation. Even though I'm a male, I like to use
                  females as my main character with a male supporting cast. I seem to
                  have more flexibility when working with female characters. After
                  reading one of Salvatore's books that had an awesome female
                  character, I switched gears.
                • Nora
                  ... WHOOPS!! Somehow I thought you were female. Sorry about that! Might help if we knew your name, though, since your screen/email name is something
                  Message 8 of 17 , Dec 9, 2004
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                    >
                    >
                    >> ..... and I did a bit of romanticizing
                    >> ancient Egypt and Nubia in the process. I've gotten a lot of help
                    > from the
                    >> folks here and on the Carl Brandon list about making it saleworthy
                    > and
                    >> coherent, and about the realities and possibilities of the market,
                    > so if
                    >> you're looking for help along those lines, the people here are
                    > great. =)
                    >> Welcome!
                    >>
                    > Hey, I'm doing the same. I find Ancient Egypt and Nubia quite
                    > fascinating, especially when you discover things that have been so
                    > misinterpreted by mainstream. I'm writing along those lines, and
                    > adding a bit of the traditional Fantasy characters along with some
                    > of the Egyptian and Nubian mythological characters and with a bit of
                    > my own original creation. Even though I'm a male, I like to use
                    > females as my main character with a male supporting cast. I seem to
                    > have more flexibility when working with female characters. After
                    > reading one of Salvatore's books that had an awesome female
                    > character, I switched gears.

                    WHOOPS!! Somehow I thought you were female. Sorry about that!

                    Might help if we knew your name, though, since your screen/email name is
                    something unpronounceable. =)

                    Nora
                  • Nora
                    ... Oh -- and along the same lines... for some reason, I started out writing female characters but found myself more drawn to males. Probably because I tend
                    Message 9 of 17 , Dec 9, 2004
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                      > Hey, I'm doing the same. I find Ancient Egypt and Nubia quite
                      > fascinating, especially when you discover things that have been so
                      > misinterpreted by mainstream. I'm writing along those lines, and
                      > adding a bit of the traditional Fantasy characters along with some
                      > of the Egyptian and Nubian mythological characters and with a bit of
                      > my own original creation. Even though I'm a male, I like to use
                      > females as my main character with a male supporting cast. I seem to
                      > have more flexibility when working with female characters. After
                      > reading one of Salvatore's books that had an awesome female
                      > character, I switched gears.

                      Oh -- and along the same lines... for some reason, I started out writing
                      female characters but found myself more drawn to males. Probably because I
                      tend to fall a little in love with my characters, and since I'm straight...
                      =P But I also find that female characters have a dangerous tendency to
                      become me, in my stories, and writing about males distances the character
                      and the story from myself.

                      Nora
                    • sancochojo
                      ... because I ... straight... ... character ... Thats a good point, it does allow you to distances yourself from the main character. Sometimes I spread my
                      Message 10 of 17 , Dec 9, 2004
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                        > Oh -- and along the same lines... for some reason, I started out writing
                        > female characters but found myself more drawn to males. Probably
                        because I
                        > tend to fall a little in love with my characters, and since I'm
                        straight...
                        > =P But I also find that female characters have a dangerous tendency to
                        > become me, in my stories, and writing about males distances the
                        character
                        > and the story from myself.
                        >
                        Thats a good point, it does allow you to distances yourself from the
                        main character. Sometimes I spread my personality to the supporting
                        characters and less with the main character who tends to be a female.

                        sancochojo formally mccartjf
                      • Astromancer
                        I find that no matter how you go about creating your characters, they always end up being some aspect of your personality, male or female...Totally
                        Message 11 of 17 , Dec 9, 2004
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                          I find that no matter how you go about creating your characters, they always end up being some aspect of your personality, male or female...Totally inescapable!

                          sancochojo <mccartjf@...> wrote:
                          > Oh -- and along the same lines... for some reason, I started out writing
                          > female characters but found myself more drawn to males. Probably
                          because I
                          > tend to fall a little in love with my characters, and since I'm
                          straight...
                          > =P But I also find that female characters have a dangerous tendency to
                          > become me, in my stories, and writing about males distances the
                          character
                          > and the story from myself.
                          >
                          Thats a good point, it does allow you to distances yourself from the
                          main character. Sometimes I spread my personality to the supporting
                          characters and less with the main character who tends to be a female.

                          sancochojo formally mccartjf





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                        • Astromancer
                          You know, Eurocentric Fantasy gets more serious treatment than Afrocentric Fantasy (i.e. stories involving Egypt, african villages, etc.) A F tends to either
                          Message 12 of 17 , Dec 9, 2004
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                            You know, Eurocentric Fantasy gets more serious treatment than Afrocentric Fantasy (i.e. stories involving Egypt, african villages, etc.) A F tends to either get whitewashed (The mummy) or grouped together and treated with the same contempt as most stories about voodoo...When was the last time you ever seen a sweep epic fantasy about Africa???

                            mccartjf <mccartjf@...> wrote:
                            >..... and I did a bit of romanticizing
                            > ancient Egypt and Nubia in the process. I've gotten a lot of help
                            from the
                            > folks here and on the Carl Brandon list about making it saleworthy
                            and
                            > coherent, and about the realities and possibilities of the market,
                            so if
                            > you're looking for help along those lines, the people here are
                            great. =)
                            > Welcome!
                            >
                            Hey, I'm doing the same. I find Ancient Egypt and Nubia quite
                            fascinating, especially when you discover things that have been so
                            misinterpreted by mainstream. I'm writing along those lines, and
                            adding a bit of the traditional Fantasy characters along with some
                            of the Egyptian and Nubian mythological characters and with a bit of
                            my own original creation. Even though I'm a male, I like to use
                            females as my main character with a male supporting cast. I seem to
                            have more flexibility when working with female characters. After
                            reading one of Salvatore's books that had an awesome female
                            character, I switched gears.





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                          • Astromancer
                            Welcome to the banter...just bookmarked your website...If I comment there, will I be rejected because I m a Nubian Brother instead? Joy F, Nubian Sistas Book
                            Message 13 of 17 , Dec 10, 2004
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                              Welcome to the banter...just bookmarked your website...If I comment there, will I be rejected because I'm a Nubian Brother instead?

                              "Joy F, Nubian Sistas Book Club" <nubiensistas@...> wrote:

                              Hello everyone,

                              I've been lurking in the corner of this group for a while and I thought I should finally introduce myself. My name is Joy and I live in South Florida. I'm the founder of Nubian Sistas Book Club and an avid reader. I just wanted to say I read many of your posts and although I never sent any of my own, I throughly enjoyed them.

                              Planning to participate more,



                              Joy Farrington

                              www.nubiansistas.org














                              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]






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                            • sancochojo
                              Well you can never wait for them to do it. A Pharaoh will always be lilly white, an Egyptian queen will always have long hair and fair skin and African
                              Message 14 of 17 , Dec 10, 2004
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                                Well you can never wait for them to do it. A Pharaoh will always
                                be lilly white, an Egyptian queen will always have long hair and
                                fair skin and African folklore will be represented with an old dark
                                skin man with a rattle chanting to the gods or practicing voodoo
                                magic as a man that looks like Sean Connery comes saves the day.

                                Eurocentric fantasy writers have been good at creating this world
                                where all could imagine living in no matter what creatures are
                                chasing them..

                                I did like the movies, The Mummy and its sequel, but I was just as
                                disappointed with the misrepresentation of characters such as the
                                Medjays who were historically Nubian, but that's Hollywood for you,
                                there isn't much I can personally do about it.

                                You can either be angry or write the books and get them put on the
                                shelves of bookstores or at least in your bookshelf at home.

                                I have read many articles of white fantasy writers who wished their
                                were more originality which includes fantasy worlds that represent
                                other than something Celtic, but I think they are more talk and
                                won't risk such a venture, if it is a risk. Plus, I don't think
                                they have the energy to dive into creating an Afrocentric fantasy
                                world that they are not familiar with and risk a backlash for being
                                wrong. I honestly think that's our job. In their eyes there is not
                                much fantasy in Africa and minimal in Egypt. I think their limit
                                would be in places like Ancient China and other parts of Asia, since
                                a lot of folklore is adopted from that region and merged in with
                                European folklore and every once in a while they will write in a
                                mummy chasing someone down the street.

                                Just my thoughts.






                                --- In SciFiNoir_Lit@yahoogroups.com, Astromancer <cwbadie@y...>
                                wrote:
                                > You know, Eurocentric Fantasy gets more serious treatment than
                                Afrocentric Fantasy (i.e. stories involving Egypt, african villages,
                                etc.) A F tends to either get whitewashed (The mummy) or grouped
                                together and treated with the same contempt as most stories about
                                voodoo...When was the last time you ever seen a sweep epic fantasy
                                about Africa???
                                >
                                > mccartjf <mccartjf@y...> wrote:
                                > >..... and I did a bit of romanticizing
                                > > ancient Egypt and Nubia in the process. I've gotten a lot of
                                help
                                > from the
                                > > folks here and on the Carl Brandon list about making it
                                saleworthy
                                > and
                                > > coherent, and about the realities and possibilities of the
                                market,
                                > so if
                                > > you're looking for help along those lines, the people here are
                                > great. =)
                                > > Welcome!
                                > >
                                > Hey, I'm doing the same. I find Ancient Egypt and Nubia quite
                                > fascinating, especially when you discover things that have been so
                                > misinterpreted by mainstream. I'm writing along those lines, and
                                > adding a bit of the traditional Fantasy characters along with some
                                > of the Egyptian and Nubian mythological characters and with a bit
                                of
                                > my own original creation. Even though I'm a male, I like to use
                                > females as my main character with a male supporting cast. I seem
                                to
                                > have more flexibility when working with female characters. After
                                > reading one of Salvatore's books that had an awesome female
                                > character, I switched gears.
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                > Community email addresses:
                                > Post message: SciFiNoir_Lit@yahoogroups.com
                                > Subscribe: SciFiNoir_Lit-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
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                              • belsidus2000
                                Message 15 of 17 , Dec 10, 2004
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                                  <Who is it doing this whitewashing or treating with contempt?
                                  African or African American authors? Have you ever read the work of
                                  Ben Okri?

                                  When is the last time you read a sweep epic fantasy about Africa
                                  written by an African or African American?

                                  Chris Hayden

                                  --- In SciFiNoir_Lit@yahoogroups.com, Astromancer <cwbadie@y...>
                                  wrote:
                                  > You know, Eurocentric Fantasy gets more serious treatment than
                                  Afrocentric Fantasy (i.e. stories involving Egypt, african villages,
                                  etc.) A F tends to either get whitewashed (The mummy) or grouped
                                  together and treated with the same contempt as most stories about
                                  voodoo...When was the last time you ever seen a sweep epic fantasy
                                  about Africa???
                                  >
                                  > mccartjf <mccartjf@y...> wrote:
                                  > >..... and I did a bit of romanticizing
                                  > > ancient Egypt and Nubia in the process. I've gotten a lot of
                                  help
                                  > from the
                                  > > folks here and on the Carl Brandon list about making it
                                  saleworthy
                                  > and
                                  > > coherent, and about the realities and possibilities of the
                                  market,
                                  > so if
                                  > > you're looking for help along those lines, the people here are
                                  > great. =)
                                  > > Welcome!
                                  > >
                                  > Hey, I'm doing the same. I find Ancient Egypt and Nubia quite
                                  > fascinating, especially when you discover things that have been so
                                  > misinterpreted by mainstream. I'm writing along those lines, and
                                  > adding a bit of the traditional Fantasy characters along with some
                                  > of the Egyptian and Nubian mythological characters and with a bit
                                  of
                                  > my own original creation. Even though I'm a male, I like to use
                                  > females as my main character with a male supporting cast. I seem
                                  to
                                  > have more flexibility when working with female characters. After
                                  > reading one of Salvatore's books that had an awesome female
                                  > character, I switched gears.
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > Community email addresses:
                                  > Post message: SciFiNoir_Lit@yahoogroups.com
                                  > Subscribe: SciFiNoir_Lit-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
                                  > Subscribe Digest Mode: SciFiNoir_Lit-digest@yahoogroups.com
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                                • belsidus2000
                                  Message 16 of 17 , Dec 10, 2004
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                                    <This is true--I find myself putting my words and thoughts into the
                                    mouths and minds of my female characters and I have them acting and
                                    reacting like I would, too.

                                    Chris Hayden

                                    --- In SciFiNoir_Lit@yahoogroups.com, Astromancer <cwbadie@y...>
                                    wrote:
                                    > I find that no matter how you go about creating your characters,
                                    they always end up being some aspect of your personality, male or
                                    female...Totally inescapable!
                                    >
                                    >
                                  • Astromancer
                                    The deate was not the written word...Octavia Butler s Wild Seed would punch a hole clean through this discussion...I m referring to the cinema... belsidus2000
                                    Message 17 of 17 , Dec 10, 2004
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                                      The deate was not the written word...Octavia Butler's 'Wild Seed would punch a hole clean through this discussion...I'm referring to the cinema...

                                      belsidus2000 <Frofidemus@...> wrote:
                                      <Who is it doing this whitewashing or treating with contempt?
                                      African or African American authors? Have you ever read the work of
                                      Ben Okri?

                                      When is the last time you read a sweep epic fantasy about Africa
                                      written by an African or African American?

                                      Chris Hayden

                                      --- In SciFiNoir_Lit@yahoogroups.com, Astromancer <cwbadie@y...>
                                      wrote:
                                      > You know, Eurocentric Fantasy gets more serious treatment than
                                      Afrocentric Fantasy (i.e. stories involving Egypt, african villages,
                                      etc.) A F tends to either get whitewashed (The mummy) or grouped
                                      together and treated with the same contempt as most stories about
                                      voodoo...When was the last time you ever seen a sweep epic fantasy
                                      about Africa???
                                      >
                                      > mccartjf <mccartjf@y...> wrote:
                                      > >..... and I did a bit of romanticizing
                                      > > ancient Egypt and Nubia in the process. I've gotten a lot of
                                      help
                                      > from the
                                      > > folks here and on the Carl Brandon list about making it
                                      saleworthy
                                      > and
                                      > > coherent, and about the realities and possibilities of the
                                      market,
                                      > so if
                                      > > you're looking for help along those lines, the people here are
                                      > great. =)
                                      > > Welcome!
                                      > >
                                      > Hey, I'm doing the same. I find Ancient Egypt and Nubia quite
                                      > fascinating, especially when you discover things that have been so
                                      > misinterpreted by mainstream. I'm writing along those lines, and
                                      > adding a bit of the traditional Fantasy characters along with some
                                      > of the Egyptian and Nubian mythological characters and with a bit
                                      of
                                      > my own original creation. Even though I'm a male, I like to use
                                      > females as my main character with a male supporting cast. I seem
                                      to
                                      > have more flexibility when working with female characters. After
                                      > reading one of Salvatore's books that had an awesome female
                                      > character, I switched gears.
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
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