Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.

Re: Melting Pot vs. Cultural Mosaic

Expand Messages
  • Oreoblues@aol.com
    Hey there, Nora. What up, friend? Am not sure either if he was using at as a truism but it is a phrase that falls so often from Canadian lips that I think it
    Message 1 of 3 , Sep 10, 2004
    • 0 Attachment
      Hey there, Nora. What up, friend?

      Am not sure either if he was using at as a truism but it is a phrase that
      falls so often from Canadian lips that I think it must be taught in schools by
      rote. Maybe the US doesn't spend a lot of time comparing itself to Canada to
      develop a philosophy that compares how ethnic groups are treated but Canadians
      often compare themselves to US-ers. It's like whenever I visit the in-laws in
      California...they always say something about NY. (So, I bet you want to move
      to California, etc) NY-ers never really think of California. But Californians
      always seem to be in comparison mode with the rest of the US. That's what irks
      me...strange comparison mindsets that seem to be repeated by rote ad nauseum.

      As for tolerance.: I always hated that Melting pot song from America
      Rock...which seemed more geared towards Anglos from Northern Europe than anything
      else. The thing is on a day-to-day level, forgetting the government and thinking
      of the people...we ought to figure out just what tolerance means. Does it mean
      having no opinion and so all kinda melting into a kind of tolerance and
      acceptance of all things because strong opinions are eschewed? If that is what
      tolerance means, then Canada is a melting pot...more so than a mosaic .because
      they don't seem to get as opinionated as stuff as folks in the us government and
      daily life...And the US would be the tossed salad. At least in that here
      people do have strong opinions but they are a kind-hearted lot who tend to befriend
      folks they strongly disagree with. Maybe folks in Canada are the melting pot
      when it comes to spiritual issues because they don't have that heavy
      religious baggage the US history has...city on the hill and all that. But
      paradoxically, when tomatoes and lettuce and onions all clash up against each other in a
      spiritual salad...those strong essences really make something. So maybe in the
      us some ethnic stuff will melt but spiritual stuff won't... And we have
      soooo many different kinds of cities. In the US, tolerance doesn't mean not having
      an opinion. It means having very strong opinions and still loving your
      friend, neighbor, etc who has the equal and opposite opinion. Witness the deep
      pasionate conversations I (born-againer tht I am) have with my very Islamic
      Moroccan and Egyptian friends, my agostic socialist Jewish friends, and my New Ager
      friends. There's flavor in the US because we don't melt and we don't go to the
      least common denominator of ethnic or spiritual belief. And we have tons of
      meeting places and dynamic friendships. Even in Bush territory, I would think
      (although I really dislike both Bush and Kerry and will probably vote for
      Nader again),

      When I was in school in 1977, my teacher used the tossed salad analogy so
      it's way old...not really that new.
      -C

      SciFiNoir_Lit@yahoogroups.com writes:

      >
      > Hi, Carole. I don't know if the author of the review was using it as a
      > truism, but maybe to contrast the basic philosophies the two countries have
      > historically espoused. *Lately* the US has started calling itself a tossed
      > salad, but when I was a kid back in the Seventies and early Eighties I
      > definitely got indoctrinated with the melting pot message, and that wasn't
      > very long ago. Anybody here remember the "Schoolhouse Rock" series? There
      > was one of those about the "Great American melting pot", and those ran well
      > into the Eighties. I can't remember, did they go into the Nineties too??
      >
      > (Suddenly I can't get "Conjunction Junction" out of my head. -_-)
      >
      > I agree that our cities are a lot more diverse than a non-American would
      > realize, especially if their only exposure to American culture is our TV.
      > And I agree we've made some progress in the past 40 years. But the attitude
      > toward that diversity and progress, on a political and national level, is
      > very different in the two countries. Look at the way the gay marriage issue
      > has progressed in both countries. However you might feel about it, Canada
      > definitely seems more tolerant of the idea than the US.
      >
      > I also see plenty of evidence that the melting pot philosophy is still
      > around in the US. Every political movement for "English only" as a state or
      > national language, for example. The Canadians *have* proven themselves more
      > accommodating in that respect (e.g., they have two national languages and
      > have considered adding others). So I wouldn't call the "melting
      > pot"/"cultural mosaic" comparison hackneyed... not for another few decades
      > anyway. =( Maybe after all the GenXers who grew up on Schoolhouse Rock
      > start to kick off. =P
      >
      > Nora
      >
      >



      Carole McDonnell <>< <>< <><
      http://www.geocities.com/scifiwritir/OreoBlues.html
      http://www.geocities.com/scifiwritir/Mysweetmother.html
      "Love is stronger than death" - The Song of Solomon, The Bible.


      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Oreoblues@aol.com
      Me again: That shows the subtlety of American tolerance. Everything in Peekskill is sent out in Spanish and English. All school and city hall announcements. No
      Message 2 of 3 , Sep 10, 2004
      • 0 Attachment
        Me again:

        That shows the subtlety of American tolerance. Everything in Peekskill is
        sent out in Spanish and English. All school and city hall announcements. No one
        asked. No one complained. Folks in power jut did it without passing a law.
        That's the heart of the US, I think. Not to make a big production out of the small
        tolerant things we do. I suspect it's the same in many counties across the
        country....no written laws about english only (even in Texas) but equal access
        for all. Some countries make a production about being accomodating, the US
        folks simply accomodates. When something becomes a habit, like accomodating you
        can't really "prove" it. Except one knows that one has been tolerant and done
        the right thing. Canada HAD TO make two national languages. In the US, such a
        law would be seen as redundant because we're already accepting of others'
        languages...we already send out everything in spanish, English and whatever
        required language. We don't legislate love through national acts. It is already in
        our hearts. No proof needed for love. Not that the US is perfect or
        unprejudiced...but then again Canada isn't either.

        Am 44 years old. Almost 45. I remember schoolhouse rock from 1973. I think
        the GenXers don't know their history...if they think it started with them. If
        it did, all those songs wouldn't have those cool sixties beat. -C

        OreoBlues writes:

        > Every political movement for "English only" as a state or
        > national language, for example. The Canadians *have* proven themselves more
        > accommodating in that respect (e.g., they have two national languages and
        > have considered adding others). So I wouldn't call the "melting
        > pot"/"cultural mosaic" comparison hackneyed... not for another few decades
        > anyway. =( Maybe after all the GenXers who grew up on Schoolhouse Rock
        > start to kick off. =P
        >
        >



        Carole McDonnell <>< <>< <><
        http://www.geocities.com/scifiwritir/OreoBlues.html
        http://www.geocities.com/scifiwritir/Mysweetmother.html
        "Love is stronger than death" - The Song of Solomon, The Bible.


        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Nora
        Hi, again, Carole! ... Seriously!! I think it s some kind of inferiority complex. I live in Boston, which has the BIGGEST inferiority complex I ve ever seen
        Message 3 of 3 , Sep 10, 2004
        • 0 Attachment
          Hi, again, Carole!

          > -----Original Message-----
          > From: Oreoblues@... [mailto:Oreoblues@...]
          > rote. Maybe the US doesn't spend a lot of time comparing
          > itself to Canada to
          > develop a philosophy that compares how ethnic groups are
          > treated but Canadians
          > often compare themselves to US-ers. It's like whenever I
          > visit the in-laws in
          > California...they always say something about NY. (So, I bet
          > you want to move
          > to California, etc) NY-ers never really think of California.
          > But Californians
          > always seem to be in comparison mode with the rest of the US.

          Seriously!! I think it's some kind of inferiority complex. I live in
          Boston, which has the BIGGEST inferiority complex I've ever seen in a US
          city. They beat up NY Yankees fans here. Last year during the post-World
          Series riots they tossed cars with NY tags (tossed them OVER, I mean). I've
          heard more than one Bostonian say that if you don't think Boston is better
          than New York then LEAVE. It's sad.

          > As for tolerance.: I always hated that Melting pot song from America
          > Rock...which seemed more geared towards Anglos from Northern
          > Europe than anything
          > else. The thing is on a day-to-day level, forgetting the
          > government and thinking
          > of the people...we ought to figure out just what tolerance
          > means. Does it mean
          > having no opinion and so all kinda melting into a kind of
          > tolerance and
          > acceptance of all things because strong opinions are
          > eschewed? If that is what
          > tolerance means, then Canada is a melting pot...more so than
          > a mosaic .because
          > they don't seem to get as opinionated as stuff as folks in
          > the us government and
          > daily life...

          But is that a bad thing? Us Americans get all hot and bothered over the
          silliest stuff, sometimes... and we can never concede an argument. Some
          Americans are still bitching about women's rights, and what is it, 100 years
          later? We'll be arguing abortion, civil rights, etc. for the next hundred
          years, I suppose. In some ways I prefer the Canadian way -- they argue
          about it once, pass a law, then it's squashed.

          And the US would be the tossed salad. At least
          > in that here
          > people do have strong opinions but they are a kind-hearted
          > lot who tend to befriend
          > folks they strongly disagree with.

          Eh?? Where? (Thinking of pro-lifers and anti-abortionists, conservatives
          and liberals...)

          > Witness the deep
          > pasionate conversations I (born-againer tht I am) have with
          > my very Islamic
          > Moroccan and Egyptian friends, my agostic socialist Jewish
          > friends, and my New Ager
          > friends.

          I'm glad to hear that, but stories like yours are sadly rare, especially
          these days. =( I grew up in Mobile, Alabama, where it just wasn't easy to
          be friends with the born-again, evangelical types around me -- when they
          bothered to associate with me (because I have VERY liberal views), they
          couldn't get 2 sentences without trying to convert me.

          > When I was in school in 1977, my teacher used the tossed
          > salad analogy so
          > it's way old...not really that new.

          Maybe your teacher was progressive. I was in Alabama, and mine wasn't. =)

          Nora
        Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.