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Re: German armoured trains in newsreel footage

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  • thrudd2003
    Don t forget expansion and contraction due to temperature changes.
    Message 1 of 16 , Dec 1, 2009
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      Don't forget expansion and contraction due to temperature changes.

      > If the pylons of a monorail system are anchored in bedrock I don't see were anything other than a major event (earth quakes, typhoons, monsoons, &&&) would require other than periodic routine maintenance.
    • Grauwolf
      Greetings Thrudd and All, Been awhile since we heard from you. How s it going??? ... So, how great of a factor do you believe normal temperature fluctuations
      Message 2 of 16 , Dec 2, 2009
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        Greetings Thrudd and All,

        Been awhile since we heard from you. How's it going???

        > Don't forget expansion and contraction due to temperature changes. <

        So, how great of a factor do you believe normal temperature fluctuations would be???

        Since I'm more the Sea Going type I'm working a bit out of my depth with this whole topic. But I would assume that since it is possible to allow for those factors in standard heavy gage steel and/or stone bridge construction (even back in Vintage times) that they would not be much of an issue. Am I wrong???



        Keep It FUN!
        Dan G

        Those who refuse to learn from History -
        -- will always screw over the rest of us who do!!!

        SCI-FI ARMOR
        --- Because the Multiverse is NOT a friendly place.
        http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Sci-Fi_Armor/
        "Never Give Up! -- Never Surrender!"
      • thrudd2003
        Unfortunately I m no expert but from observation (road crossings of railroads and at bridges) the biggest problem is at the interface between different
        Message 3 of 16 , Dec 4, 2009
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          Unfortunately I'm no expert but from observation (road crossings of railroads and at bridges) the biggest problem is at the interface between different materials. Of course anything to do with metal exacerbates the problem since it expands so much more.

          Bridges (probably the better comparison) in colder areas build in expansion areas that can have gaps of several inches (maybe 3, they use plates that fit together like jack o lantern teeth) on cold days (fun to drive over) in order to avoid buckling on hot days. Where this is not done the softer material (ashphalt etc) simply crumbles and buckles and is patched every year.

          Maintenance on bridges can be prohibitively expensive, the Cornwall (Ontario, Canada) bridge to the USA costs several million per year, one reason they're replacing it.

          Wondering about steel ships. How do they deal with this problem?


          --- In Sci-Fi_Armor@yahoogroups.com, "Grauwolf" <grauwulf@...> wrote:
          >
          > Greetings Thrudd and All,
          >
          > Been awhile since we heard from you. How's it going???
          >
          > > Don't forget expansion and contraction due to temperature changes. <
          >
          > So, how great of a factor do you believe normal temperature fluctuations would be???
          >
          > Since I'm more the Sea Going type I'm working a bit out of my depth with this whole topic. But I would assume that since it is possible to allow for those factors in standard heavy gage steel and/or stone bridge construction (even back in Vintage times) that they would not be much of an issue. Am I wrong???
          >
          >
          >
          > Keep It FUN!
          > Dan G
          >
          > Those who refuse to learn from History -
          > -- will always screw over the rest of us who do!!!
          >
          > SCI-FI ARMOR
          > --- Because the Multiverse is NOT a friendly place.
          > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Sci-Fi_Armor/
          > "Never Give Up! -- Never Surrender!"
          >
        • Grauwolf
          Greetings and All, ... Actually, weather changes are not as big of an issue with ships as you might think. Surprising since I have been aboard ships that have
          Message 4 of 16 , Dec 6, 2009
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            Greetings and All,

            > Wondering about steel ships. How do they deal with this problem? <

            Actually, weather changes are not as big of an issue with ships as you might think. Surprising since I have been aboard ships that have traveled from sizzling equatorial climes to so far north that crews were constantly employed chipping the ice off EVERYTHING above deck. And, of course, back again. Some of these transitions were completed within only a couple of days! These runs were usually employed as a stress test of the ship and her armament's performance. All told, much harder on the crews than the ships. It sure gave me a hardy appreciation for those old wooden hulled sailors! "Wooden Ships and Iron Men." No Darn Doubt!!!

            Where the hull is naturally a solid wall of steel the super structures and certain internal constructions (even 1200 psi steam lines!) do contain very heavy rubber filled expansion joints. However, these are primarily to allow for flexing of the hull do to sea and/or battle conditions. Not so much for the weather. (Yeah, ya can get a bit nervous watching one of these joints flex for a few days as you ride out a typhoon or two! –LOL)

            Living here in Montana I am well aware of the use of expansion joints on steel bridges. (LOL) Though I recall just as many in use down in Southern California as well. And, frankly, I still don't see this as a huge issue in monorail construction. Certainly not much bigger than that faced in standard rail construction. Especially when considered in a straddled rail form which would not have to be completely suspended. In fact, I still think that the straddled rail monorail would have less concerns transversing expansion joints (even in its own rail) than a standard twin rail train.

            Though I am VERY curious now as to how they allow for standard steel rails themselves crossing these expansion joints. (Funny the things ya never give much thought to!) Ideas??? Or am I going to have to brave our current blowing snow and minus temps to go have a peek for myself at where the closes crosses the Yellowstone??? Why can't I come up with these things when the weather is just a tad better??? –LOL!

            It seems that there are a number of monorails well employed in areas of the world subject to extremes of weather. One of the Very Oldest is in Germany. Though a suspension rail (and a bit technically more difficult in all respects) the Wuppertal Schwebebahn was built in 1900 and is still running. It seems that only the Disney versions are not subject to extremes of weather (barring hurricanes) but they would prove the best examples employed daily in similar climes of straddled rail systems potentially for use on Venus and ???.

            Worth a look. ---- Wiki -- Monorails
            http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monorails

            Be sure to checkout those Gyro Monorails from the 1900s! Now THAT'S just plumb CRAZY!!!




            Keep It FUN!
            Dan G

            Those who refuse to learn from History -
            -- will always screw over the rest of us who do!!!

            SCI-FI ARMOR
            --- Because the Multiverse is NOT a friendly place.
            http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Sci-Fi_Armor/
            "Never Give Up! -- Never Surrender!"
          • david schnyer
            an old sailor living in montana? that reminds me of what my father, a merchant marine officer on the black gang on tankers in ww2 used to say, when he retired
            Message 5 of 16 , Dec 6, 2009
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              an old sailor living in montana? that reminds me of what my father, a merchant marine officer on the black gang on tankers in ww2 used to say, "when he retired he was going to walk inland, with an oar over his shoulder until someone stopped him to ask 'what is that strange thing you're carrying?' and there he was going to settle down." he never quite made though, lung and throat cancer got him in 1955, possibly from all the asbestos in engine spaces at the time.
              "gunner"

              --- On Sun, 12/6/09, Grauwolf <grauwulf@...> wrote:

              From: Grauwolf <grauwulf@...>
              Subject: [Sci-Fi_Armor] Re: German armoured trains in newsreel footage
              To: Sci-Fi_Armor@yahoogroups.com
              Date: Sunday, December 6, 2009, 11:28 AM

               
              Greetings and All,

              > Wondering about steel ships. How do they deal with this problem? <

              Actually, weather changes are not as big of an issue with ships as you might think. Surprising since I have been aboard ships that have traveled from sizzling equatorial climes to so far north that crews were constantly employed chipping the ice off EVERYTHING above deck. And, of course, back again. Some of these transitions were completed within only a couple of days! These runs were usually employed as a stress test of the ship and her armament's performance. All told, much harder on the crews than the ships. It sure gave me a hardy appreciation for those old wooden hulled sailors! "Wooden Ships and Iron Men." No Darn Doubt!!!

              Where the hull is naturally a solid wall of steel the super structures and certain internal constructions (even 1200 psi steam lines!) do contain very heavy rubber filled expansion joints. However, these are primarily to allow for flexing of the hull do to sea and/or battle conditions. Not so much for the weather. (Yeah, ya can get a bit nervous watching one of these joints flex for a few days as you ride out a typhoon or two! –LOL)

              Living here in Montana I am well aware of the use of expansion joints on steel bridges. (LOL) Though I recall just as many in use down in Southern California as well. And, frankly, I still don't see this as a huge issue in monorail construction. Certainly not much bigger than that faced in standard rail construction. Especially when considered in a straddled rail form which would not have to be completely suspended. In fact, I still think that the straddled rail monorail would have less concerns transversing expansion joints (even in its own rail) than a standard twin rail train.

              Though I am VERY curious now as to how they allow for standard steel rails themselves crossing these expansion joints. (Funny the things ya never give much thought to!) Ideas??? Or am I going to have to brave our current blowing snow and minus temps to go have a peek for myself at where the closes crosses the Yellowstone? ?? Why can't I come up with these things when the weather is just a tad better??? –LOL!

              It seems that there are a number of monorails well employed in areas of the world subject to extremes of weather. One of the Very Oldest is in Germany. Though a suspension rail (and a bit technically more difficult in all respects) the Wuppertal Schwebebahn was built in 1900 and is still running. It seems that only the Disney versions are not subject to extremes of weather (barring hurricanes) but they would prove the best examples employed daily in similar climes of straddled rail systems potentially for use on Venus and ???.

              Worth a look. ---- Wiki -- Monorails
              http://en.wikipedia .org/wiki/ Monorails

              Be sure to checkout those Gyro Monorails from the 1900s! Now THAT'S just plumb CRAZY!!!

              Keep It FUN!
              Dan G

              Those who refuse to learn from History -
              -- will always screw over the rest of us who do!!!

              SCI-FI ARMOR
              --- Because the Multiverse is NOT a friendly place.
              http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/Sci- Fi_Armor/
              "Never Give Up! -- Never Surrender!"


            • Dirk R. F
              ... today (say, 1970+ for higher-speed railways) the rails are directly welded together, the welding method may vary. before the rails were latched together.
              Message 6 of 16 , Dec 6, 2009
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                > Though I am VERY curious now as to how they allow for standard steel rails themselves crossing these expansion joints. (Funny the things ya never give much thought to!) Ideas?

                today (say, 1970+ for higher-speed railways) the rails are directly welded together, the welding method may vary.
                before the rails were latched together. at least here in germany. i just realised anglosaxons had some differing ideas
                http://fredriks.de/ed/schienenstoss.htm
              • Grauwolf
                Greetings Gunner and All, LOL I like your Dad! But this old Salt really does miss the Sea. Moved to Montana many years back as the best solution to escape the
                Message 7 of 16 , Dec 7, 2009
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                  Greetings Gunner and All,

                  LOL I like your Dad!
                  But this old Salt really does miss the Sea. Moved to Montana many years back as the best solution to escape the battlefields of SoCal. Ya do what ya gotta do. Ya know?

                  > he never quite made though, lung and throat cancer got him in 1955, possibly from all the asbestos in engine spaces at the time. <

                  Sorry about your Dad. Still sweating THAT bullet myself. So far (knock on wood!!!) still clear. We use to strip the insulation off of steam lines using shortened wood-saws. The stuff blew everywhere. Then the next time we hit the yards and they have these Yard Birds come down into the Hole wearing Haz-Mat suits. Go Figure! Ya just gotta love working for your Uncle!

                  BTW = What rating was your Dad??? What ships???
                  I was a Machinist's Mate (Engine room Snipe) on Tin-Cans (Destroyers).

                  Haze Grey and Underway. Every Damn Day! –LOL


                  Keep It FUN!
                  Dan G

                  Those who refuse to learn from History -
                  -- will always screw over the rest of us who do!!!

                  SCI-FI ARMOR
                  --- Because the Multiverse is NOT a friendly place.
                  http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Sci-Fi_Armor/
                  "Never Give Up! -- Never Surrender!"
                • Grauwolf
                  Greetings Festus and All, Thanks for the LINK!!!! It saved me a darn cold hike! –LOL Those are pretty much what I remembered from walking on tracks as a
                  Message 8 of 16 , Dec 7, 2009
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                    Greetings Festus and All,

                    Thanks for the LINK!!!! It saved me a darn cold hike! –LOL

                    Those are pretty much what I remembered from walking on tracks as a kid. Pretty basic stuff.

                    So I'm figuring that normal weather conditions shouldn't be much of an issue with a VSF monorail system???

                    We'll just have to keep an eye out for overly amorous Stega-Megadons! And those darn Terror-Wings nesting on pylon heads! Those last can really make a mess of the windscreen. Not to mention mucking up the bright-work!!! –LOL



                    Keep It FUN!
                    Dan G

                    Those who refuse to learn from History -
                    -- will always screw over the rest of us who do!!!

                    SCI-FI ARMOR
                    --- Because the Multiverse is NOT a friendly place.
                    http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Sci-Fi_Armor/
                    "Never Give Up! -- Never Surrender!"
                  • david schnyer
                    BTW = What rating was your Dad??? What ships???   merchant marine/maritime service, graduated hoffman island, commissioned ensign, made jig lt. by the end of
                    Message 9 of 16 , Dec 7, 2009
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                      "BTW = What rating was your Dad??? What ships???
                       
                      merchant marine/maritime service, graduated hoffman island, commissioned ensign, made jig lt. by the end of the war, 1st asst engineer, striking for chief. he shipped mostly tankers the only ones i remember are the "s.s. william h.h. rogers" which was torpedoed by the u-664.  about 600 miles off the british coast on 21 feb '43, he was listed as an oiler on that trip, rescued by a british corvette, so hoffman island came later. the other ship was the "s.s. chantilly" which suffered an engine room explosion, post war in '46, with a watchstander killed, off the florida coast. dad was off watch in his cabin so he survived that too. they towed the chantilly to pier 6 on staten island, where we lived at the time, to do the coast guard investigation at the old st.george coast guard station, which put him on the beach in walking distance from home. if you're going to get shipwrecked that's the way to do it.
                      "gunner"

                      --- On Mon, 12/7/09, Grauwolf <grauwulf@...> wrote:

                      From: Grauwolf <grauwulf@...>
                      Subject: [Sci-Fi_Armor] Re: German armoured trains in newsreel footage
                      To: Sci-Fi_Armor@yahoogroups.com
                      Date: Monday, December 7, 2009, 10:13 AM

                       
                      Greetings Gunner and All,

                      LOL I like your Dad!
                      But this old Salt really does miss the Sea. Moved to Montana many years back as the best solution to escape the battlefields of SoCal. Ya do what ya gotta do. Ya know?

                      > he never quite made though, lung and throat cancer got him in 1955, possibly from all the asbestos in engine spaces at the time. <

                      Sorry about your Dad. Still sweating THAT bullet myself. So far (knock on wood!!!) still clear. We use to strip the insulation off of steam lines using shortened wood-saws. The stuff blew everywhere. Then the next time we hit the yards and they have these Yard Birds come down into the Hole wearing Haz-Mat suits. Go Figure! Ya just gotta love working for your Uncle!

                      BTW = What rating was your Dad??? What ships???
                      I was a Machinist's Mate (Engine room Snipe) on Tin-Cans (Destroyers) .

                      Haze Grey and Underway. Every Damn Day! –LOL

                      Keep It FUN!
                      Dan G

                      Those who refuse to learn from History -
                      -- will always screw over the rest of us who do!!!

                      SCI-FI ARMOR
                      --- Because the Multiverse is NOT a friendly place.
                      http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/Sci- Fi_Armor/
                      "Never Give Up! -- Never Surrender!"


                    • Grauwolf
                      Greetings Gunner and All, Wow! It sure sounds like Aegir (or somebody) was watching over your Dad. Keep It FUN! Dan G Those who refuse to learn from History -
                      Message 10 of 16 , Dec 8, 2009
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                        Greetings Gunner and All,

                        Wow! It sure sounds like Aegir (or somebody) was watching over your Dad.


                        Keep It FUN!
                        Dan G

                        Those who refuse to learn from History -
                        -- will always screw over the rest of us who do!!!

                        SCI-FI ARMOR
                        --- Because the Multiverse is NOT a friendly place.
                        http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Sci-Fi_Armor/
                        "Never Give Up! -- Never Surrender!"
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