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Problems with Scenics

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  • Lloyd
    Over the years I ve heard many wonderful stories about the 4501s being tough, durable, dependable, and attractive. What were the downsides to them? Were they
    Message 1 of 9 , May 6, 2005
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      Over the years I've heard many wonderful stories about the 4501s being
      tough, durable, dependable, and attractive. What were the downsides
      to them? Were they hard to drive? How did they handle in the rain
      and high winds? Were they gas guzzlers? And so on and so on. Any
      takers?

      Camille
    • sean huber
      Define gas guzzler. No 40 bus with a 2 stroke detroit will ever get 10. Most get a lot closer to 5. But the king of the thirsty beasties were the origional
      Message 2 of 9 , May 6, 2005
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        Define gas guzzler. No 40' bus with a 2 stroke detroit will ever get 10. Most get a lot closer to 5. But the king of the thirsty beasties were the origional version of the MC-6. They came with 12V-71's. That 's a V-12 folks. Went like heck. Didn't even blink at mountains. Only one thing it couldn't pass, a fuel stop.
        Sean

        Lloyd <lloydingridcolincamille@...> wrote:

        Over the years I've heard many wonderful stories about the 4501s being
        tough, durable, dependable, and attractive.  What were the downsides
        to them?  Were they hard to drive?  How did they handle in the rain
        and high winds?  Were they gas guzzlers?  And so on and so on.  Any
        takers?

        Camille



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      • Harry Chavez Sr
        From my personal experience, Greyhound 1963 to 82, I found them to be excellent runners, easy to handle and never had any problems in the rain that I can
        Message 3 of 9 , May 6, 2005
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          From my personal experience, Greyhound 1963 to 82,
          I found them to be excellent runners, easy to handle and never had any problems in the rain that I can remember and wind didn't bother me either. As far as fuel consumption I can't say what kind of milage they got. I drove so many different ones and had nothing to do with fueling or record keeping except to put the starting and finishing miles on the record card stored in the bus.  Not much more to add from my viewpoint.
          Harry O

          Lloyd <lloydingridcolincamille@...> wrote:

          Over the years I've heard many wonderful stories about the 4501s being
          tough, durable, dependable, and attractive.  What were the downsides
          to them?  Were they hard to drive?  How did they handle in the rain
          and high winds?  Were they gas guzzlers?  And so on and so on.  Any
          takers?

          Camille




          "IN GOD WE TRUST"
          Let no man say otherwise.
          Harry "O" said it!!

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        • Lloyd
          I thought I remember hearing the Scenics averaged 6-7 miles per gallon. One driver also complained of tough handling with leaning in certain curve grades.
          Message 4 of 9 , May 6, 2005
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            I thought I remember hearing the Scenics averaged 6-7 miles per
            gallon. One driver also complained of tough handling with leaning in
            certain curve grades. One or two said wet roadway handling was at
            least adequate. A handful of drivers said the Scenics weren't too
            agile on hills and upgrades. But I'm guessing you'll get a different
            story from just about everyone, possibly overall good...

            Camille

            --- In Scenicruiser21@yahoogroups.com, sean huber
            <orangepeel91us@y...> wrote:
            > Define gas guzzler. No 40' bus with a 2 stroke detroit will ever get
            10. Most get a lot closer to 5. But the king of the thirsty beasties
            were the origional version of the MC-6. They came with 12V-71's. That
            's a V-12 folks. Went like heck. Didn't even blink at mountains. Only
            one thing it couldn't pass, a fuel stop.
            > Sean
            >
            > Lloyd <lloydingridcolincamille@y...> wrote:
            >
            > Over the years I've heard many wonderful stories about the 4501s being
            > tough, durable, dependable, and attractive. What were the downsides
            > to them? Were they hard to drive? How did they handle in the rain
            > and high winds? Were they gas guzzlers? And so on and so on. Any
            > takers?
            >
            > Camille
            >
            >
            >
            >
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          • C. A. "Skipper" Libby
            The 4501 was the most comfortable and easy handling coach GM ever made...It got no more or less mileage than present coaches(even with modern weight saving
            Message 5 of 9 , May 6, 2005
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              The 4501 was the most comfortable and easy handling coach GM ever made...It got no more or less mileage than present coaches(even with modern weight saving materials)...It hugged curves, went through heavy rain and snow, like a trooper...No complaints from this driver, except I don't have one now...
              Skip

              Lloyd <lloydingridcolincamille@...> wrote:

              Over the years I've heard many wonderful stories about the 4501s being
              tough, durable, dependable, and attractive.  What were the downsides
              to them?  Were they hard to drive?  How did they handle in the rain
              and high winds?  Were they gas guzzlers?  And so on and so on.  Any
              takers?

              Camille


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            • Harry Chavez Sr
              The only problem ever had with one was caused by a student driver not the bus itself. While instructing a few new recruits and as we were traveling north on
              Message 6 of 9 , May 6, 2005
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                The only problem  ever had with one was caused by a student driver not the bus itself. While instructing a few new recruits and as we were traveling north on BW Parkway now I-295 my instructions to the students were never to try and down shift to slow down while changing lanes. Keep both hands on the wheel until the lane change was complete. This one student had a hard time listening or understanding things. To make this short. He laid the scenic on it's right side on the parkway in a gulley prior to a rest area pull off.  Needless to say, that student washed out and the scenic lived to see many more years of service.
                Harry O

                "C. A. "Skipper" Libby" <a1skipper1231@...> wrote:
                The 4501 was the most comfortable and easy handling coach GM ever made...It got no more or less mileage than present coaches(even with modern weight saving materials)...It hugged curves, went through heavy rain and snow, like a trooper...No complaints from this driver, except I don't have one now...
                Skip

                Lloyd <lloydingridcolincamille@...> wrote:

                Over the years I've heard many wonderful stories about the 4501s being
                tough, durable, dependable, and attractive.  What were the downsides
                to them?  Were they hard to drive?  How did they handle in the rain
                and high winds?  Were they gas guzzlers?  And so on and so on.  Any
                takers?

                Camille


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              • Lloyd
                Harry, If that Scenic was laid on its side yet still survived to continue revenue service, then that s a walloping testament to the Scenic s structural
                Message 7 of 9 , May 7, 2005
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                  Harry,
                  If that Scenic was laid on its side yet still survived to continue
                  revenue service, then that's a walloping testament to the Scenic's
                  structural integrity. How many of today's present coaches would be
                  able to do that?

                  Camille

                  --- In Scenicruiser21@yahoogroups.com, Harry Chavez Sr
                  <harrychavezsr@y...> wrote:
                  > The only problem ever had with one was caused by a student driver
                  not the bus itself. While instructing a few new recruits and as we
                  were traveling north on BW Parkway now I-295 my instructions to the
                  students were never to try and down shift to slow down while changing
                  lanes. Keep both hands on the wheel until the lane change was
                  complete. This one student had a hard time listening or understanding
                  things. To make this short. He laid the scenic on it's right side on
                  the parkway in a gulley prior to a rest area pull off. Needless to
                  say, that student washed out and the scenic lived to see many more
                  years of service.
                  > Harry O
                • RJ Long
                  Camille - NONE of today s present highway models are built like a Scenic - or any of the GMC buses, for that matter. The only thing that might come close are
                  Message 8 of 9 , May 7, 2005
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                    Camille -
                     
                    NONE of today's present highway models are built like a Scenic - or any of the GMC buses, for that matter.  The only thing that might come close are the skoolies, as they have to meet some pretty stringent Federal standards.
                     
                    BTW, I put a lot of miles on Scenics a long time ago, and always loved driving them.  Solid road feel, easy shifting, and brakes that would send a rear seat passenger thru the upper deck windshield if you stood on them hard.  Only other bus I've ever driven that stopped as well or better than a Scenic were the three-axle Crown skoolies.  Heavy crosswinds could move the coach around a little, but nowhere near how they'd blow a 4107/4108 around.  You just had to pay attention a little more.  I've had MC-9s move more than a Scenic in heavy winds.
                     
                    Not to say the Scenics were perfect.  No coach is, there are always compromises made somewhere.  The Scenics were heavy, so climbing 6% grades meant downshifting to 2nd gear and plugging away at 30 mph 'til you reached the top.  But then, that was before the HP race began in buses, and everybody knew buses were slow climbing hills.
                     
                    IIRC, Greyhound/Marmon-Herrington made some structural modifications to the Scenics when they were retrofitted with the 8V71 back in 1962.  I believe there were some stress-cracking issues above the tandem axles that was addressed at that time, and after correction, no other structural problems occurred.
                     
                    The Scenics were a perfect coach for what they were designed to do, which was line-haul work.  They made lousy tour coaches, because the tour guide was either talking to 10 downstairs or 33 upstairs, not everyone together.  Charter work was sort of a mixed blessing, depending on the group.  Kids loved them, adults liked them, but grumbled a little about having to climb/descend the stairs to visit friends or to use the loo.
                     
                    I'm sure you're aware that the Scenics lasted in Greyhound service longer than any other model before or since. . .
                     
                    And just for your enjoyment, here's an interesting pic for you:
                     
                     
                    And you thought Scenics were tall. . .
                     
                    FWIW,
                     
                    RJ
                    PD4106-2784
                    Fresno CA
                     
                    ----- Original Message -----
                    From: Lloyd

                    Harry, If that Scenic was laid on its side yet still survived to continue revenue service, then that's a walloping testament to the Scenic's structural integrity.  How many of today's present coaches would be able to do that? Camille

                    --- In Scenicruiser21@yahoogroups.com, Harry Chavez Sr
                    <harrychavezsr@y...> wrote:

                    > The only problem  ever had with one was caused by a student driver not the bus itself. While instructing a few new recruits and as we were traveling north on BW Parkway now I-295 my instructions to the students were never to try and down shift to slow down while changing lanes. Keep both hands on the wheel until the lane change was complete. This one student had a hard time listening or understanding things. To make this short. He laid the scenic on it's right side on
                    the parkway in a gulley prior to a rest area pull off.  Needless to say, that student washed out and the scenic lived to see many more years of service. > Harry O
                  • Harry Chavez Sr
                    From what this old memory recalls the layover was smooth and casual.. We were barely moving as the bus seemed to be in slow motion.. I think the only damage
                    Message 9 of 9 , May 7, 2005
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                      From what this old memory recalls the layover was smooth and casual.. We were barely moving as the bus seemed to be in slow motion.. I think the only damage was the mirror and paint damage..
                      Harry O  w/short term memory,  lol


                      Lloyd <lloydingridcolincamille@...> wrote:
                      Harry,
                      If that Scenic was laid on its side yet still survived to continue
                      revenue service, then that's a walloping testament to the Scenic's
                      structural integrity.  How many of today's present coaches would be
                      able to do that?

                      Camille

                      --- In Scenicruiser21@yahoogroups.com, Harry Chavez Sr
                      <harrychavezsr@y...> wrote:
                      > The only problem  ever had with one was caused by a student driver
                      not the bus itself. While instructing a few new recruits and as we
                      were traveling north on BW Parkway now I-295 my instructions to the
                      students were never to try and down shift to slow down while changing
                      lanes. Keep both hands on the wheel until the lane change was
                      complete. This one student had a hard time listening or understanding
                      things. To make this short. He laid the scenic on it's right side on
                      the parkway in a gulley prior to a rest area pull off.  Needless to
                      say, that student washed out and the scenic lived to see many more
                      years of service.
                      > Harry O





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                      Let no man say otherwise.
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