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Re: Some RFIDs

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  • valndoyle
    Hi Pete. I was also one of the voters who chose Loggerhead Shrike by e-mail to you. It s certainly hard to tell. The reasoning behind my vote is the throat
    Message 1 of 8 , Aug 7, 2005
      Hi Pete. I was also one of the voters who chose Loggerhead Shrike by
      e-mail to you. It's certainly hard to tell. The reasoning behind my
      vote is the throat seems to be white further down than a Northern's
      would be and the bill seems short. It sort of looks like the
      colouring of a juvenile Loggerhead in Sibleys where the eyeband
      isn't as wide as on an adult and still a bit of a yellowish stripe
      on the wing.

      Hope for you this turns out a wrong assumption on my part as it's
      always nice to get a 'lifer'.

      Val

      --- In Saskbirds@yahoogroups.com, "el_supremo01" <el_supremo01@y...>
      wrote:
      > On Friday my granddaughter and I went for a drive down the old
      > Regina highway hoping to see a hawk. Not only did we see a
      > Swainson's Hawk perched on a fence post by the side of the road
      but
      > it didn't fly off when I drove alongside it and started taking
      > photos through the open passenger side window. Unfortunately I was
      > shooting almost directly into the sun but that's by far the
      closest
      > I've been to a wild Swainson's. There was another hawk across the
      > road on a hay bale and I think it was a young Swainson's.
      > We also saw Western Kingbird, Eastern Kingbird, Tree Swallow,
      *lots*
      > of Coots, some Mallards, Killdeer, magpies, crows, Red-winged
      > Blackbirds, Lesser Yellowlegs, two doves and lots of LBJs. We also
      > saw a pair of shrikes on the road (I should have a bumper
      sticker "I
      > brake for shrikes") one of which flew up onto a fence where I got
      a
      > few shots before it flew off. I am not sure if it was a Northern
      or
      > a Loggerhead. I'm hoping for Northern because that would be a
      lifer.
      > We also saw some Phalaropes (Wilson's?).
      > Here's some photos from the trip:
      > http://members.shaw.ca/digipete/2005_08_05/
      > I'd appreciate it if someone could ID those whose title (under the
      > image) contains one or more question marks.
      >
      > Best Wishes
      > Pete
    • Bob
      Pete A practical suggestion can be to generally consider the more likely choice first rather than last when facing the challenge of identifying a species. A
      Message 2 of 8 , Aug 9, 2005
        Pete

        A practical suggestion can be to generally consider the more likely choice first rather than last when facing the challenge of identifying a species.

        A question here can be why is this not a juvenile Loggerhead Shrike? The bill and plumage characteristics including the typical combination of a single lighter bar in addition to the white area on the folded wing suggests this.

        The time of this sighting is consistent with seeing Loggerheads at this location. Of course exceptions can occur and it is always wise to ensure that field marks are noted correctly.

        Northern Shrike juveniles often have a bownish wash plus would typically not be here now, nor would adults. Both of these would have barring or visible darker edges on the breast feathers which are diagnostic among other features.

        Within the Regina area, Loggerheads usually arrive in later in spring just usually after the last of the Northern's return to the boreal forest to nest. I have only seen both species during the same day on at best a couple of occasions during mid to late May.

        Northern Shrikes often pass through heading north beginning in late March when the bulk of Mountain Bluebirds are migrating into the Qu'Appelle. Some will be on passage still in April with a very few remaining into May.

        The time overlap in spring seems a week or so at most according to Tom Riffel's excellent bar graphs within the now out of print-A Bird Finding Guide to the Regina Area.

        In fall, Loggerhead Shrikes mostly depart in August with a few stragglers extending into early September mostly prior to the typical southern movement of Northern's.

        Some Northern Shrikes will arrive during the last weeks of September with the bulk moving through during October and into November usually well after the last Loggerhead's leave here.

        Good Birding
        Bob


        ----- Original Message -----
        From: valndoyle
        To: Saskbirds@yahoogroups.com
        Sent: Sunday, August 07, 2005 8:06 PM
        Subject: [Saskbirds] Re: Some RFIDs


        Hi Pete. I was also one of the voters who chose Loggerhead Shrike by
        e-mail to you. It's certainly hard to tell. The reasoning behind my
        vote is the throat seems to be white further down than a Northern's
        would be and the bill seems short. It sort of looks like the
        colouring of a juvenile Loggerhead in Sibleys where the eyeband
        isn't as wide as on an adult and still a bit of a yellowish stripe
        on the wing.

        Hope for you this turns out a wrong assumption on my part as it's
        always nice to get a 'lifer'.

        Val

        --- In Saskbirds@yahoogroups.com, "el_supremo01" <el_supremo01@y...>
        wrote:
        > On Friday my granddaughter and I went for a drive down the old
        > Regina highway hoping to see a hawk. Not only did we see a
        > Swainson's Hawk perched on a fence post by the side of the road
        but
        > it didn't fly off when I drove alongside it and started taking
        > photos through the open passenger side window. Unfortunately I was
        > shooting almost directly into the sun but that's by far the
        closest
        > I've been to a wild Swainson's. There was another hawk across the
        > road on a hay bale and I think it was a young Swainson's.
        > We also saw Western Kingbird, Eastern Kingbird, Tree Swallow,
        *lots*
        > of Coots, some Mallards, Killdeer, magpies, crows, Red-winged
        > Blackbirds, Lesser Yellowlegs, two doves and lots of LBJs. We also
        > saw a pair of shrikes on the road (I should have a bumper
        sticker "I
        > brake for shrikes") one of which flew up onto a fence where I got
        a
        > few shots before it flew off. I am not sure if it was a Northern
        or
        > a Loggerhead. I'm hoping for Northern because that would be a
        lifer.
        > We also saw some Phalaropes (Wilson's?).
        > Here's some photos from the trip:
        > http://members.shaw.ca/digipete/2005_08_05/
        > I'd appreciate it if someone could ID those whose title (under the
        > image) contains one or more question marks.
        >
        > Best Wishes
        > Pete




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      • el_supremo01
        Bob and Martin, thanks for your ID help. Bob s info about the timing does seem to indicate that a Loggerhead is more likely. I also posted the question on the
        Message 3 of 8 , Aug 9, 2005
          Bob and Martin, thanks for your ID help. Bob's info about the timing
          does seem to indicate that a Loggerhead is more likely. I also
          posted the question on the birds-pix group and received this reply
          from Barry Kent MacKay:
          > The shrike looks good for a Northern to me. Immature Loggerheads
          > have less black in front of the face than the adults, and this
          > looks to me like a young bird, albeit one that is now mostly
          > molted into adult plumage. The immature plumage of a Northern is
          > a lovely, soft coffee-au-lait colour, while the young Loggerheads
          > are gray, but I think this bird has acquired most of the gray
          > adult plumage, and the bill length, light base of lower mandible
          > and thinness of mask in the area of the lores, plus the proportions
          > of the bird, all favour Northern, in my opinion.

          I have already added a tick for Northern to my list so, in a
          desperate attempt to keep it, I've posted Barry's opinion here to
          see if it can sway you :-)) The tick is easy to remove since my list
          is an Excel spreadsheet which is easy to reprint.

          As to the other birds, he suggests that the 4th pic might be a
          Western Kingbird and he thinks that the sparrow is a Savannah. He
          was quite definite that the phalarope is a Wilson's.

          Best Wishes
          Pete
        • Bob
          Pete ... From: el_supremo01 To: Saskbirds@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, August 09, 2005 10:18 AM Subject: [Saskbirds] Re: Some RFIDs Bob and Martin, thanks
          Message 4 of 8 , Aug 9, 2005
            Pete

            ----- Original Message -----
            From: el_supremo01
            To: Saskbirds@yahoogroups.com
            Sent: Tuesday, August 09, 2005 10:18 AM
            Subject: [Saskbirds] Re: Some RFIDs


            Bob and Martin, thanks for your ID help. Bob's info about the timing
            does seem to indicate that a Loggerhead is more likely. I also
            posted the question on the birds-pix group and received this reply
            from Barry Kent MacKay:
            > The shrike looks good for a Northern to me. Immature Loggerheads
            > have less black in front of the face than the adults, and this
            > looks to me like a young bird, albeit one that is now mostly
            > molted into adult plumage. The immature plumage of a Northern is
            > a lovely, soft coffee-au-lait colour, while the young Loggerheads
            > are gray, but I think this bird has acquired most of the gray
            > adult plumage, and the bill length, light base of lower mandible
            > and thinness of mask in the area of the lores, plus the proportions
            > of the bird, all favour Northern, in my opinion.

            I have already added a tick for Northern to my list so, in a
            desperate attempt to keep it, I've posted Barry's opinion here to
            see if it can sway you :-)) The tick is easy to remove since my list
            is an Excel spreadsheet which is easy to reprint.

            As to the other birds, he suggests that the 4th pic might be a
            Western Kingbird and he thinks that the sparrow is a Savannah. He
            was quite definite that the phalarope is a Wilson's.

            Best Wishes
            Pete




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          • Bob
            Pete These shrike images present a great opportunity to discuss, compare and contrast the plumage differences and similarities between these two species. This
            Message 5 of 8 , Aug 10, 2005
              Pete

              These shrike images present a great opportunity to discuss, compare and contrast the plumage differences and similarities between these two species. This is always fun and instructive.

              A key here is as always that the colours that I see on my monitor may not be that which others see on theirs. The variable color settings translate into varying shades.

              Is that possibly snow within the background on the trees? :-)

              I did my research by consulting Bent, Sibley, Kaufman and Stokes.

              Juvenile or immature Northern Shrikes, which may possibly acquire a partial post juvenal molt during July and August (Bent), apparently feature a "mask" which often remains a paler grey and is generally restricted or more diffuse until much later. The adult prenuptial molt typically occurs in early March of the following year (Bent).

              In contrast, the Loggerhead Shrike apparently features a darker mask in ALL plumages. The dark/black mask of the juvenile Loggerhead though is of a different 'shape' from that of the adult and appears very SIMILAR to that of the adult Northern Shrike. The juvenile Loggerhead 'mask' narrows near the base of the bill just as with the adult Northern Shrike. More about this later.

              During the molt in March, the Northern Shrike's unique rather uniform juvenile or immature ' brownish tinged" plumage is replaced with the typical adult colours. However, the vermiculations (darker feather edgings) on the underparts remain 'constant' during both the juvenile and adult plumages of this species.

              Adult Loggerhead's ,in contrast, lose their juvenile feather edgings (vermiculations or barring) underneath as they molt into adult plumage and never feature the typical slightly variable 'brownish wash' present within the plumage of the juvenile or immature Northern Shrike. Instead both juveniles and adults feature shades of grey within these areas.

              Adult Loggerhead Shrikes are a rather darker gray on the head, nape and mantle with 'contrasting' lighter colours underneath.

              The adult Northern Shrike presents a more 'uniformly coloured' grayish bird (except of course for the dark mask ,wings and tail which both share.)

              The juvenile/immature Northern Shrike also has a uniformly coloured appearance. In this instance the impression is more of a 'brownish bird' with darker wings,tail and as mentioned often a greyish or less developed mask.

              The juvenile Loggerhead usually features the typical contrast between the darker back and lighter underparts of the adults. ( I think this is apparent within these images.)

              A challenge associated with both of these species can perhaps be with distinguishing between the adult Northern Shrike and the juvenile Loggerhead Shrike.

              For me this is the task here.


              A key DIFFERENCE between the juvenile Loggerhead and the adult Northern Shrike is the distinctive wing patterns of juveniles of both species.

              Both juveniles feature an additional lighter wing bar, or bars, which is/are most apparent. The secondaries of the immature Northern Shrike also have lighter edgings.

              To conclude, the single barred wing pattern illustrated within the images suggests to me that this is a Loggerhead juvenile and not an adult Northern or Loggerhead Shrike.

              These images feature the typical juvenile Loggerhead mask. The contrasting darker back and lighter underparts fits well with this age class and species

              The 'lack' of a rather uniform 'brownish' cast for the plumage, the obvious contrast between the darker back and the lighter underparts and the typical dark well defined juvenile type Loggerhead mask for me successfully eliminates the juvenile/immature Northern Shrike.

              I think that the adult Northern Shrike is eliminated by the wing pattern and the degree of contrast between the upper and underparts.

              The Northern Shrike does carry its typical 'brownish plumage' well into the winter and sometimes into spring, here.

              As mentioned previously,I think the time and location in combination with plumage characteristics fits the juvenile Loggerhead Shrike.

              I will research more the sequence and timing of full and partial moults for each species.

              Good Birding
              Bob


              ----- Original Message -----
              From: el_supremo01
              To: Saskbirds@yahoogroups.com
              Sent: Tuesday, August 09, 2005 10:18 AM
              Subject: [Saskbirds] Re: Some RFIDs


              Bob and Martin, thanks for your ID help. Bob's info about the timing
              does seem to indicate that a Loggerhead is more likely. I also
              posted the question on the birds-pix group and received this reply
              from Barry Kent MacKay:
              > The shrike looks good for a Northern to me. Immature Loggerheads
              > have less black in front of the face than the adults, and this
              > looks to me like a young bird, albeit one that is now mostly
              > molted into adult plumage. The immature plumage of a Northern is
              > a lovely, soft coffee-au-lait colour, while the young Loggerheads
              > are gray, but I think this bird has acquired most of the gray
              > adult plumage, and the bill length, light base of lower mandible
              > and thinness of mask in the area of the lores, plus the proportions
              > of the bird, all favour Northern, in my opinion.

              I have already added a tick for Northern to my list so, in a
              desperate attempt to keep it, I've posted Barry's opinion here to
              see if it can sway you :-)) The tick is easy to remove since my list
              is an Excel spreadsheet which is easy to reprint.

              As to the other birds, he suggests that the 4th pic might be a
              Western Kingbird and he thinks that the sparrow is a Savannah. He
              was quite definite that the phalarope is a Wilson's.

              Best Wishes
              Pete




              ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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              a.. Visit your group "Saskbirds" on the web.

              b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
              Saskbirds-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

              c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.


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              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • el_supremo01
              Thanks very much for the analysis Bob. I ve removed the tick for Northern Shrike and I ll just have to hope that one crosses my path this fall :-) Pete
              Message 6 of 8 , Aug 11, 2005
                Thanks very much for the analysis Bob. I've removed the tick for
                Northern Shrike and I'll just have to hope that one crosses my path
                this fall :-)

                Pete
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