Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.
 

Re: European Goldfinch

Expand Messages
  • Ryan Dudragne
    ... I have previously read up on several cases of this species turning up all over North America, especially in the east from the coast inland to Michigan,
    Message 1 of 7 , May 3, 2007
      --- In Saskbirds@yahoogroups.com, "Val" <val_doyle_thomas@...> wrote:
      >
      > Those are great shots Sharon and what a nice addition for Saskbirds
      > list! Lucky you.
      >


      I have previously read up on several cases of this species turning up
      all over North America, especially in the east from the coast inland to
      Michigan, Ontario and I think a case or two in Manitoba, over the past
      decade. It is not included in the latest edition of the ABA checklist
      (Feb. 2007, http://www.americanbirding.org/checklist/), nor is it to my
      knowledge accepted on various local checklists in North America due to
      the highly questionable provenance of these birds when they turn up.
      Apparently, a few reports from Newfoundland and Québec may have a better
      chance of being legitimate transients, however. There is a good article
      written in North American Birds (56:402-408) and may be found here,
      which outlines this argument:

      http://www.umd.umich.edu/dept/rouge_river/eugo.html

      Based on the above argument, I am hesitant to include the European
      Goldfinch on the Saskbirds list. If anyone else feels differently, or
      similarly, I think a Saskbirds discussion would be appropriate for this
      subject. While I am open to either end, others' thoughts would be
      appreciated.

      Best of Birding,

      Ryan Dudragne
      Swift Current


      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Greg
      This is an interesting question, and I am not sure if the answer is clear cut. The provence of these sightings is always questionable. Say this bird is an
      Message 2 of 7 , May 3, 2007
        This is an interesting question, and I am not sure if the answer is
        clear cut. The provence of these sightings is always questionable.
        Say this bird is an escapee from Chicago, which happened as recently
        as 2002, or perhaps it is even a more recent escapee from Regina or
        Saskatoon, and now it is wandering, at what point are they to be
        considered for a checklist? There is confirmed breeding, and have
        established a reasonably stable population, just as the Eurasian
        Collared Dove has, a bird which is on the checklist. House Sparrows
        and Rock Doves are also non-native species, which are firmly
        entrenched in our landscape, are on our checklists. There was an
        escaped Budgie in Regina this past winter, and I do not think we
        even considered putting it on our list, so I question what the
        difference is with this bird? My initial reaction is not include it,
        yet there is always the possibility that this bird is a wayward
        bird. I guess a few questions need to be answered first.
        1.) When a non-native species is found, and breeding occurs, how
        many birds and how large of a range is needed before, it goes on a
        list (i.e., the criteria used for the Eurasian Collared Dove)?
        2.) How much time must elapse before a population of birds is to
        be considered for inclusion on a list?
        3.) There are exotic species of birds breeding in Florida,
        California, and even New York City has had Monk Parrots breeding
        there, but they are rarely if ever mentioned in North American
        Birds.
        I guess what I am asking is what are the rules, if there are indeed
        accepted rules for checklist inclusion. Like I said not an easy
        question to answer.

        However, in light of that I still think the sighting is pretty darn
        exciting, and great pictures




        --- In Saskbirds@yahoogroups.com, Ryan Dudragne <pl8guy@...> wrote:
        >
        > --- In Saskbirds@yahoogroups.com, "Val" <val_doyle_thomas@> wrote:
        > >
        > > Those are great shots Sharon and what a nice addition for
        Saskbirds
        > > list! Lucky you.
        > >
        >
        >
        > I have previously read up on several cases of this species turning
        up
        > all over North America, especially in the east from the coast
        inland to
        > Michigan, Ontario and I think a case or two in Manitoba, over the
        past
        > decade. It is not included in the latest edition of the ABA
        checklist
        > (Feb. 2007, http://www.americanbirding.org/checklist/), nor is it
        to my
        > knowledge accepted on various local checklists in North America
        due to
        > the highly questionable provenance of these birds when they turn
        up.
        > Apparently, a few reports from Newfoundland and Québec may have a
        better
        > chance of being legitimate transients, however. There is a good
        article
        > written in North American Birds (56:402-408) and may be found
        here,
        > which outlines this argument:
        >
        > http://www.umd.umich.edu/dept/rouge_river/eugo.html
        >
        > Based on the above argument, I am hesitant to include the European
        > Goldfinch on the Saskbirds list. If anyone else feels
        differently, or
        > similarly, I think a Saskbirds discussion would be appropriate for
        this
        > subject. While I am open to either end, others' thoughts would be
        > appreciated.
        >
        > Best of Birding,
        >
        > Ryan Dudragne
        > Swift Current
        >
        >
        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        >
      • Bailey and Bjorklund
        Based on the above argument, I am hesitant to include the European Goldfinch on the Saskbirds list. If anyone else feels differently, or similarly, I think a
        Message 3 of 7 , May 4, 2007
          Based on the above argument, I am hesitant to include the European
          Goldfinch on the Saskbirds list. If anyone else feels differently, or
          similarly, I think a Saskbirds discussion would be appropriate for this
          subject. While I am open to either end, others' thoughts would be
          appreciated.

          Best of Birding,

          Ryan Dudragne
          Swift Current


          As a general rule escaped birds should not be included on your life list.
          However, there are a number of escaped and introduced birds to SK. that
          thrive here now. The latest addition being the Collared Dove (as they call
          them in Europe).
          My opinion: Put the finch in brackets on the Saskbirds list without
          including it at part of this year's total.

          Martin



          Yahoo! Groups Links
        • Val
          ... Saskbirds ... up ... inland to ... past ... checklist ... to my ... due to ... up. ... better ... article ... here, ... differently, or ... this
          Message 4 of 7 , May 4, 2007
            --- In Saskbirds@yahoogroups.com, Ryan Dudragne <pl8guy@...> wrote:
            >
            > --- In Saskbirds@yahoogroups.com, "Val" <val_doyle_thomas@> wrote:
            > >
            > > Those are great shots Sharon and what a nice addition for
            Saskbirds
            > > list! Lucky you.
            > >
            >
            >
            > I have previously read up on several cases of this species turning
            up
            > all over North America, especially in the east from the coast
            inland to
            > Michigan, Ontario and I think a case or two in Manitoba, over the
            past
            > decade. It is not included in the latest edition of the ABA
            checklist
            > (Feb. 2007, http://www.americanbirding.org/checklist/), nor is it
            to my
            > knowledge accepted on various local checklists in North America
            due to
            > the highly questionable provenance of these birds when they turn
            up.
            > Apparently, a few reports from Newfoundland and Québec may have a
            better
            > chance of being legitimate transients, however. There is a good
            article
            > written in North American Birds (56:402-408) and may be found
            here,
            > which outlines this argument:
            >
            > http://www.umd.umich.edu/dept/rouge_river/eugo.html
            >
            > Based on the above argument, I am hesitant to include the European
            > Goldfinch on the Saskbirds list. If anyone else feels
            differently, or
            > similarly, I think a Saskbirds discussion would be appropriate for
            this
            > subject. While I am open to either end, others' thoughts would be
            > appreciated.
            >
            > Best of Birding,
            >
            > Ryan Dudragne
            > Swift Current
            >
            >
            > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            >
          • Val
            I know nothing about the pros and cons of inclusion for checklists and really typed this without thinking. Must have been exciting to see such a
            Message 5 of 7 , May 4, 2007
              I know nothing about the pros and cons of inclusion for checklists
              and really typed this without thinking. Must have been exciting to
              see such a different-looking bird. Sure agree with you Ryan and
              others.

              Val

              what a nice addition for Saskbirds
              > > list! Lucky you. Val
              > >
              >
              >
              > I have previously read up on several cases of this species turning
              up
              > all over North America, especially in the east from the coast
              inland to
              > Michigan, Ontario and I think a case or two in Manitoba, over the
              past
              > decade. It is not included in the latest edition of the ABA
              checklist
              > (Feb. 2007, http://www.americanbirding.org/checklist/), nor is it
              to my
              > knowledge accepted on various local checklists in North America
              due to
              > the highly questionable provenance of these birds when they turn
              up.
              > Apparently, a few reports from Newfoundland and Québec may have a
              better
              > chance of being legitimate transients, however. There is a good
              article
              > written in North American Birds (56:402-408) and may be found
              here,
              > which outlines this argument:
              >
              > http://www.umd.umich.edu/dept/rouge_river/eugo.html
              >
              > Based on the above argument, I am hesitant to include the European
              > Goldfinch on the Saskbirds list. If anyone else feels
              differently, or
              > similarly, I think a Saskbirds discussion would be appropriate for
              this
              > subject. While I am open to either end, others' thoughts would be
              > appreciated.
              >
              > Best of Birding,
              >
              > Ryan Dudragne
              > Swift Current
              >
              >
              > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              >
            • Kathy Hedegard
              I ll weigh in with my 2 cents by saying that I think it would be a good idea to add the bird to the list - but with brackets and stipulations as Martin
              Message 6 of 7 , May 4, 2007
                I'll weigh in with my 2 cents by saying that I think it would be a good idea to add the bird to the list - but with brackets and stipulations as Martin suggested, to indicate its unknown 'wild' or 'escaped' status. By recording the observation it's easier to track down if it turns out that this species is colonizing and migrating, etc.

                Whichever....I think it's a great sighting and a very cool bird to find at one's feeder. Nice for You, Sharon.

                Kathy in Estevan

                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • Bruce Wilson
                ... Ryan etal: I saw one of these birds in January 2006 in Barrie. I have put it on my life list but noted that it is probably an escapee and not counted it
                Message 7 of 7 , May 4, 2007
                  At 08:40 04/05/2007, you wrote:


                  >Based on the above argument, I am hesitant to include the European
                  >Goldfinch on the Saskbirds list. If anyone else feels differently, or
                  >similarly, I think a Saskbirds discussion would be appropriate for this
                  >subject. While I am open to either end, others' thoughts would be
                  >appreciated.
                  >
                  >Best of Birding,
                  >
                  >Ryan Dudragne
                  >Swift Current

                  Ryan etal:

                  I saw one of these birds in January 2006 in Barrie. I have put it on
                  my life list but noted that it is probably an escapee and not counted
                  it in my total. With luck I should be able to legitimately add it to
                  my life list during my trip to Scotland and England later this year.

                  The rarities are always a topic of interesting debate but still nice to see.

                  Bruce Wilson
                  Barrie, Ontario, Canada
                  Life Member NMRA Member Scale 7 Group Gauge 0 Guild
                Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.