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  • Tommy Beavitt
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    Message 1 of 8 , Jan 17, 2007
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      Begin forwarded message:

      > From: Nagaraj Bhadrashetty <nagarajbhadrashetty@...>
      > Date: 17 January 2007 17:30:21 GMT+00:00
      > To: Sartre Moderator <Sartre-owner@yahoogroups.com>
      > Subject: Re: Yahoo! Groups: Welcome to Sartre. Visit today!
      >
      > thanks.do we really exhist?
      >
      > Sartre Moderator <Sartre-owner@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
      >
      > Hello,
      >
      > Welcome to the Sartre list. This list was created to provide a
      > forum for discussion of Sartre's philosophy and novels, and
      > relevant themes in the writings of other existential and
      > phenomenological thinkers.
      >
      > Contributions are welcome at all levels, please feel free to
      > introduce yourself and your interests to the list and suggest a
      > topic for discussion.
      >
      > I look forward to debating with you.
      >
      > Tommy Beavitt
      >
      >
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      > terms/
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    • Tommy Beavitt
      ... I suppose its an obvious question really. But perhaps the answer is not so obvious. Arguably the largest of Sartre s contributions to philosophy was his
      Message 2 of 8 , Jan 17, 2007
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        On 17 Jan 2007, at 17:37, Nagaraj Bhadrashetty wrote:

        > do we really exhist?

        I suppose its an obvious question really. But perhaps the answer is
        not so obvious.

        Arguably the largest of Sartre's contributions to philosophy was his
        clear statement of the concept of nothingness. This is not the same
        thing in believing nothing, rather Sartre thought that nothingness
        lay curled in the very heart of being.

        In Existentialism and Human emotions he wrote:

        "But ontology and existential psychoanalysis (or the spontaneous and
        empirical application which men have always made of these
        disciplines) must reveal to the moral agent that he is the being by
        whom values exist. It is then that his freedom will become conscious
        of itself and will reveal itself in anguish as the unique source of
        value and the nothingness by which the world exists."

        and in his fictitious diary of the existential hero, Roquentin, La
        Nausée, Sartre uses Roquentin's inner thoughts to represent this
        concept to his readers. For example, Roquentin writes:

        "if I exist, it is because I am horrified at existing. I am the one
        who pulls myself from the nothingness to which I aspire: the hatred,
        the disgust of existing, there are as many ways to make myself exist,
        to thrust myself into existence. Thoughts are born at the back of me,
        like sudden giddiness, I feel them being born behind my head ... if I
        yield, they're going to come round in front of me, between my eyes—
        and I always yield, the thought grows and grows and there it is,
        immense, filling me completely and renewing my existence."

        Sartre distinguished between being-in-itself, the world of insentient
        objects, and being-for-itself, the world of conscious existence.
        Because of human freedom, it is the quintessence of bad faith to
        refer to oneself as an object, or to attempt to *behave* like an
        object, because what man is, is free.

        But human freedom, for Sartre, as shown above, forces us to confront
        the nothingness that lies at the centre of everything that we are.
        And although one of the ways that this nothingness reveals itself to
        us is in our mortality - and in particular, our choice as to stay
        alive, or to end our lives by acting on an impulse - it also affects
        the way that we live the choices that exemplify our freedom.

        So in the way the answer is yes, we do exist. But the matter of our
        existence is complicated and not at all a question of making an
        analogy to things that we observe that are existents in-themselves.

        What do you think? Do you know that you exist? Does Sartre's
        description of existence and nothingness tally with your own direct
        experience?

        Tommy
      • Nagaraj Bhadrashetty
        you say ....yes we exhist.dont know as to appreciate or pity or feel happy for you for so feeling. i wish i believed i do exhist.but alas ! i do not. i did not
        Message 3 of 8 , Jan 18, 2007
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          you say ....yes we exhist.dont know as to appreciate or pity or feel happy for you for so feeling. i wish i believed i do exhist.but alas ! i do not. i did not and i will not at least in the present form of awareness.how can i say a rabbit taken out of a magicians cap do really exhist. i am not sure either way. i am highly sceptical.sartre says BEING MEANS BELONGING TO SOME THING. Can you pl. explore for me?

          Tommy Beavitt <tommy@...> wrote:
          On 17 Jan 2007, at 17:37, Nagaraj Bhadrashetty wrote:

          > do we really exhist?

          I suppose its an obvious question really. But perhaps the answer is
          not so obvious.

          Arguably the largest of Sartre's contributions to philosophy was his
          clear statement of the concept of nothingness. This is not the same
          thing in believing nothing, rather Sartre thought that nothingness
          lay curled in the very heart of being.

          In Existentialism and Human emotions he wrote:

          "But ontology and existential psychoanalysis (or the spontaneous and
          empirical application which men have always made of these
          disciplines) must reveal to the moral agent that he is the being by
          whom values exist. It is then that his freedom will become conscious
          of itself and will reveal itself in anguish as the unique source of
          value and the nothingness by which the world exists."

          and in his fictitious diary of the existential hero, Roquentin, La
          Nausée, Sartre uses Roquentin's inner thoughts to represent this
          concept to his readers. For example, Roquentin writes:

          "if I exist, it is because I am horrified at existing. I am the one
          who pulls myself from the nothingness to which I aspire: the hatred,
          the disgust of existing, there are as many ways to make myself exist,
          to thrust myself into existence. Thoughts are born at the back of me,
          like sudden giddiness, I feel them being born behind my head ... if I
          yield, they're going to come round in front of me, between my eyes—
          and I always yield, the thought grows and grows and there it is,
          immense, filling me completely and renewing my existence."

          Sartre distinguished between being-in-itself, the world of insentient
          objects, and being-for-itself, the world of conscious existence.
          Because of human freedom, it is the quintessence of bad faith to
          refer to oneself as an object, or to attempt to *behave* like an
          object, because what man is, is free.

          But human freedom, for Sartre, as shown above, forces us to confront
          the nothingness that lies at the centre of everything that we are.
          And although one of the ways that this nothingness reveals itself to
          us is in our mortality - and in particular, our choice as to stay
          alive, or to end our lives by acting on an impulse - it also affects
          the way that we live the choices that exemplify our freedom.

          So in the way the answer is yes, we do exist. But the matter of our
          existence is complicated and not at all a question of making an
          analogy to things that we observe that are existents in-themselves.

          What do you think? Do you know that you exist? Does Sartre's
          description of existence and nothingness tally with your own direct
          experience?

          Tommy




          To unsubscribe, e-mail: Sartre-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

          Yahoo! Groups Links








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        • Nagaraj Bhadrashetty
          you say ....yes we exhist.dont know as to appreciate or pity or feel happy for you for so feeling. i wish i believed i do exhist.but alas ! i do not. i did not
          Message 4 of 8 , Jan 18, 2007
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            you say ....yes we exhist.dont know as to appreciate or pity or feel happy for you for so feeling. i wish i believed i do exhist.but alas ! i do not. i did not and i will not at least in the present form of awareness.how can i say a rabbit taken out of a magicians cap do really exhist. i am not sure either way. i am highly sceptical.sartre says BEING MEANS BELONGING TO SOME THING. Can you pl. explore for me?

            Tommy Beavitt <tommy@...> wrote:
            On 17 Jan 2007, at 17:37, Nagaraj Bhadrashetty wrote:

            > do we really exhist?

            I suppose its an obvious question really. But perhaps the answer is
            not so obvious.

            Arguably the largest of Sartre's contributions to philosophy was his
            clear statement of the concept of nothingness. This is not the same
            thing in believing nothing, rather Sartre thought that nothingness
            lay curled in the very heart of being.

            In Existentialism and Human emotions he wrote:

            "But ontology and existential psychoanalysis (or the spontaneous and
            empirical application which men have always made of these
            disciplines) must reveal to the moral agent that he is the being by
            whom values exist. It is then that his freedom will become conscious
            of itself and will reveal itself in anguish as the unique source of
            value and the nothingness by which the world exists."

            and in his fictitious diary of the existential hero, Roquentin, La
            Nausée, Sartre uses Roquentin's inner thoughts to represent this
            concept to his readers. For example, Roquentin writes:

            "if I exist, it is because I am horrified at existing. I am the one
            who pulls myself from the nothingness to which I aspire: the hatred,
            the disgust of existing, there are as many ways to make myself exist,
            to thrust myself into existence. Thoughts are born at the back of me,
            like sudden giddiness, I feel them being born behind my head ... if I
            yield, they're going to come round in front of me, between my eyes—
            and I always yield, the thought grows and grows and there it is,
            immense, filling me completely and renewing my existence."

            Sartre distinguished between being-in-itself, the world of insentient
            objects, and being-for-itself, the world of conscious existence.
            Because of human freedom, it is the quintessence of bad faith to
            refer to oneself as an object, or to attempt to *behave* like an
            object, because what man is, is free.

            But human freedom, for Sartre, as shown above, forces us to confront
            the nothingness that lies at the centre of everything that we are.
            And although one of the ways that this nothingness reveals itself to
            us is in our mortality - and in particular, our choice as to stay
            alive, or to end our lives by acting on an impulse - it also affects
            the way that we live the choices that exemplify our freedom.

            So in the way the answer is yes, we do exist. But the matter of our
            existence is complicated and not at all a question of making an
            analogy to things that we observe that are existents in-themselves.

            What do you think? Do you know that you exist? Does Sartre's
            description of existence and nothingness tally with your own direct
            experience?

            Tommy




            To unsubscribe, e-mail: Sartre-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

            Yahoo! Groups Links








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          • Nagaraj Bhadrashetty
            you say ....yes we exhist.dont know as to appreciate or pity or feel happy for you for so feeling. i wish i believed i do exhist.but alas ! i do not. i did not
            Message 5 of 8 , Jan 18, 2007
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              you say ....yes we exhist.dont know as to appreciate or pity or feel happy for you for so feeling. i wish i believed i do exhist.but alas ! i do not. i did not and i will not at least in the present form of awareness.how can i say a rabbit taken out of a magicians cap do really exhist. i am not sure either way. i am highly sceptical.sartre says BEING MEANS BELONGING TO SOME THING. Can you pl. explore for me?

              Tommy Beavitt <tommy@...> wrote:
              On 17 Jan 2007, at 17:37, Nagaraj Bhadrashetty wrote:

              > do we really exhist?

              I suppose its an obvious question really. But perhaps the answer is
              not so obvious.

              Arguably the largest of Sartre's contributions to philosophy was his
              clear statement of the concept of nothingness. This is not the same
              thing in believing nothing, rather Sartre thought that nothingness
              lay curled in the very heart of being.

              In Existentialism and Human emotions he wrote:

              "But ontology and existential psychoanalysis (or the spontaneous and
              empirical application which men have always made of these
              disciplines) must reveal to the moral agent that he is the being by
              whom values exist. It is then that his freedom will become conscious
              of itself and will reveal itself in anguish as the unique source of
              value and the nothingness by which the world exists."

              and in his fictitious diary of the existential hero, Roquentin, La
              Nausée, Sartre uses Roquentin's inner thoughts to represent this
              concept to his readers. For example, Roquentin writes:

              "if I exist, it is because I am horrified at existing. I am the one
              who pulls myself from the nothingness to which I aspire: the hatred,
              the disgust of existing, there are as many ways to make myself exist,
              to thrust myself into existence. Thoughts are born at the back of me,
              like sudden giddiness, I feel them being born behind my head ... if I
              yield, they're going to come round in front of me, between my eyes—
              and I always yield, the thought grows and grows and there it is,
              immense, filling me completely and renewing my existence."

              Sartre distinguished between being-in-itself, the world of insentient
              objects, and being-for-itself, the world of conscious existence.
              Because of human freedom, it is the quintessence of bad faith to
              refer to oneself as an object, or to attempt to *behave* like an
              object, because what man is, is free.

              But human freedom, for Sartre, as shown above, forces us to confront
              the nothingness that lies at the centre of everything that we are.
              And although one of the ways that this nothingness reveals itself to
              us is in our mortality - and in particular, our choice as to stay
              alive, or to end our lives by acting on an impulse - it also affects
              the way that we live the choices that exemplify our freedom.

              So in the way the answer is yes, we do exist. But the matter of our
              existence is complicated and not at all a question of making an
              analogy to things that we observe that are existents in-themselves.

              What do you think? Do you know that you exist? Does Sartre's
              description of existence and nothingness tally with your own direct
              experience?

              Tommy




              To unsubscribe, e-mail: Sartre-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

              Yahoo! Groups Links








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            • Ian Buick
              ... I thought that Descartes put up a watertight argument for the existence of the self in his Meditations. In his I think therefore I am we may argue about
              Message 6 of 8 , Jan 20, 2007
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                In a recent post nagarajbhadrashetty says:

                >. i wish i believed i do exhist.but alas ! i do not. i did not and i will
                >not at least in the present form >of awareness.how can i say a rabbit taken
                >out of a magicians cap do really exhist. i am not sure >either way. i am
                >highly sceptical.

                I thought that Descartes put up a watertight argument for the existence of
                the self in his Meditations. In his " I think therefore I am" we may argue
                about what the "I" is, what "thought" is, and what it is to "be", but the
                fact that the I is doubting the existence of itself would seem to be
                irrefutable proof that the doubting I does in fact exist, otherwise it could
                not doubt.

                In Being and Nothingness, I'm sure Sartre takes the existence of self as a
                truth which demands no proof on his part.

                I do, however, seem to remember reading somewhere that doubt has been cast
                on Descartes cogito. Can anyone enlighten?

                _________________________________________________________________
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              • Nagaraj Bhadrashetty
                well sir.. you opinion sartre believes exhistence of the self is a truth needing no proof.how do we define truth . truth is a concept that ought to be there
                Message 7 of 8 , Jan 21, 2007
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                  well sir.. you opinion sartre believes exhistence of the self is a truth needing no proof.how do we define truth . truth is a concept that ought to be there for making an understanding and that has never been there. hence a continued search for that.even we cannot say the time at present accurately and correctly .by the time i perceive what time you have said it is already past.if you calculate time taken for its utterence and time taken for my perception and accordingly introduce correction and say the exact time that coincides with the mutually agreed time by an agreed watch or clock your statement of the time at the time you have uttered it is different and hence wrong also.. isnt it so...then may we say we can predict time correctly?that is it... then the basic question is is there a time ... according to my understanding there is no time outside my perception. yhe same applies to my exhistence also..if iam am am i am irrespective of my thinking... descartes statement
                  is to be taken as a subjective intelligent exclammation... not as an exhistencial reality...welcome teasers....

                  Ian Buick <buickian@...> wrote: In a recent post nagarajbhadrashetty says:

                  >. i wish i believed i do exhist.but alas ! i do not. i did not and i will
                  >not at least in the present form >of awareness.how can i say a rabbit taken
                  >out of a magicians cap do really exhist. i am not sure >either way. i am
                  >highly sceptical.

                  I thought that Descartes put up a watertight argument for the existence of
                  the self in his Meditations. In his " I think therefore I am" we may argue
                  about what the "I" is, what "thought" is, and what it is to "be", but the
                  fact that the I is doubting the existence of itself would seem to be
                  irrefutable proof that the doubting I does in fact exist, otherwise it could
                  not doubt.

                  In Being and Nothingness, I'm sure Sartre takes the existence of self as a
                  truth which demands no proof on his part.

                  I do, however, seem to remember reading somewhere that doubt has been cast
                  on Descartes cogito. Can anyone enlighten?

                  _________________________________________________________________
                  MSN Hotmail is evolving – check out the new Windows Live Mail
                  http://ideas.live.com



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                • nagarajbhadrashetty
                  yes, the existential problem has no single answer, i think.when in dream we feel we do really exist and experince the events there as if they are here and
                  Message 8 of 8 , Jun 17, 2011
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                    yes, the existential problem has no single answer, i think.when in dream
                    we feel we do really exist and experince the events there as if they are
                    here and now;only after we wake up we realise it was not a CONCRETE
                    thing but a CONCEPYUAL and hence less than virtual.So will we realise
                    this life as a state resmbling the dream? no one knows for sure.all our
                    attempts to understand the essence and absolute cause and purpose of
                    existence are ultimately futile with no conceptions that deliver the
                    truth.Intellectual masturbations may be pleasant but not creative.It is
                    some what like a group of born blind men seriously trying to understand
                    how different colors really look.Only death can reveal the truth if
                    there is a state of beingness after death with this
                    consciousness.Ultimately it is not what Sartre or Einstein or
                    Shankaracharya make out of the meaning , it is what one makes out by
                    one's own efforts and making his understanding that is it is emperical
                    unto each one.
                    --- In Sartre@yahoogroups.com, Nagaraj Bhadrashetty
                    <nagarajbhadrashetty@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > you say ....yes we exhist.dont know as to appreciate or pity or feel
                    happy for you for so feeling. i wish i believed i do exhist.but alas ! i
                    do not. i did not and i will not at least in the present form of
                    awareness.how can i say a rabbit taken out of a magicians cap do really
                    exhist. i am not sure either way. i am highly sceptical.sartre says
                    BEING MEANS BELONGING TO SOME THING. Can you pl. explore for me?
                    >
                    > Tommy Beavitt tommy@... wrote:
                    > On 17 Jan 2007, at 17:37, Nagaraj Bhadrashetty wrote:
                    >
                    > > do we really exhist?
                    >
                    > I suppose its an obvious question really. But perhaps the answer is
                    > not so obvious.
                    >
                    > Arguably the largest of Sartre's contributions to philosophy was his
                    > clear statement of the concept of nothingness. This is not the same
                    > thing in believing nothing, rather Sartre thought that nothingness
                    > lay curled in the very heart of being.
                    >
                    > In Existentialism and Human emotions he wrote:
                    >
                    > "But ontology and existential psychoanalysis (or the spontaneous and
                    > empirical application which men have always made of these
                    > disciplines) must reveal to the moral agent that he is the being by
                    > whom values exist. It is then that his freedom will become conscious
                    > of itself and will reveal itself in anguish as the unique source of
                    > value and the nothingness by which the world exists."
                    >
                    > and in his fictitious diary of the existential hero, Roquentin, La
                    > Nausée, Sartre uses Roquentin's inner thoughts to represent this
                    > concept to his readers. For example, Roquentin writes:
                    >
                    > "if I exist, it is because I am horrified at existing. I am the one
                    > who pulls myself from the nothingness to which I aspire: the hatred,
                    > the disgust of existing, there are as many ways to make myself exist,
                    > to thrust myself into existence. Thoughts are born at the back of me,
                    > like sudden giddiness, I feel them being born behind my head ... if I
                    > yield, they're going to come round in front of me, between my
                    eyes—
                    > and I always yield, the thought grows and grows and there it is,
                    > immense, filling me completely and renewing my existence."
                    >
                    > Sartre distinguished between being-in-itself, the world of insentient
                    > objects, and being-for-itself, the world of conscious existence.
                    > Because of human freedom, it is the quintessence of bad faith to
                    > refer to oneself as an object, or to attempt to *behave* like an
                    > object, because what man is, is free.
                    >
                    > But human freedom, for Sartre, as shown above, forces us to confront
                    > the nothingness that lies at the centre of everything that we are.
                    > And although one of the ways that this nothingness reveals itself to
                    > us is in our mortality - and in particular, our choice as to stay
                    > alive, or to end our lives by acting on an impulse - it also affects
                    > the way that we live the choices that exemplify our freedom.
                    >
                    > So in the way the answer is yes, we do exist. But the matter of our
                    > existence is complicated and not at all a question of making an
                    > analogy to things that we observe that are existents in-themselves.
                    >
                    > What do you think? Do you know that you exist? Does Sartre's
                    > description of existence and nothingness tally with your own direct
                    > experience?
                    >
                    > Tommy
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > To unsubscribe, e-mail: Sartre-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                    >
                    > Yahoo! Groups Links
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
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                    >
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