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Re: Re: [Sartre] freedom

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  • Shadab Murtaza
    Interesting to note UNDERSTANDING is the last thing and try to make things better for our surroundings... at the same time. I think you are most haunted by
    Message 1 of 18 , Jul 25 6:38 AM
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      Interesting to note "UNDERSTANDING is the last thing" and "try to make
      things better for our surroundings..." at the same time. I think you are
      most haunted by the past. It is important to know what we did and how. But
      it is better if we do that in order to build a future which does not carry
      faultes that were present in the past. And I must venture to completey
      disagree with Sartre if he said 'human beings are waste". I m doubtful of
      that. He was an active member of French Communist Party, and opposed in
      principle the party's decision to support the war. And if i m wrong about my
      doubt, than he is no more right. Right?
      Good to hear your views. Perhaps i really misunderstood.


      >From: "sumita varma" <sumitatvarma@...>
      >Reply-To: Sartre@yahoogroups.com
      >To: Sartre@yahoogroups.com
      >Subject: Re: Re: [Sartre] freedom
      >Date: 25 Jul 2006 05:45:41 -0000
      >
      >yes, so many times we don't know, what the person is facing or going
      >through, that is why it is no use of passing our judgement...we understand,
      >but we CAN NOT CHAGE Personal tragedies or the past of a person and that is
      >the reason UNDERSTANDING is the last thing we can do...and try to make
      >things better for our surroundings...�
      >
      >
      >On Mon, 24 Jul 2006 eram8t8@... wrote :
      > >
      > >In a message dated 7/24/2006 6:12:57 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,
      > >shadabmurtaza@... writes:
      > >
      > >Just consider your own idea that we should stop discussing
      > >ideas and decided which of the ideas is best through our own idea
      > >
      > >
      > >sorry if i was misunderstood....i never stated that we stop discussing
      > >ideas...in fact now more than ever we NEED to discuss
      >ideas.....especially on
      > >existentialism.....why is there so much discord in this world?...can it
      >be that
      > >as sartre stated human beings are a waste?....or that hell is other
      > >people?....or is it that there is so much animosity that we do not
      >bother to actually
      > >"see" each other?....what our world needs right now is praxis......to
      > >understand each individual for whom he or she is, to have some
      >compassion no matter
      > >what that person has done....we do not know each others history....what
      > >makes this person do what he does?.....was the childhood that
      >bad?....but then
      > >again, as is in the humanistic approach, he can rise above what was
      >"done" to
      > >him and do what he believes is right......again, sorry if i was
      > >misunderstood.....
      > >
      > >
      > >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >To unsubscribe, e-mail: Sartre-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
      > >
      > >Yahoo! Groups Links
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      >
      >
      >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      >

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    • eram8t8@aol.com
      In a message dated 7/25/2006 8:40:09 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, shadabmurtaza@hotmail.com writes: I think you are most haunted by the past. It is important
      Message 2 of 18 , Jul 25 5:16 PM
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        In a message dated 7/25/2006 8:40:09 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,
        shadabmurtaza@... writes:

        I think you are
        most haunted by the past. It is important to know what we did and how


        so you do understand me....i AM haunted by the past, as i do believe we need
        to know what we did and how....thereby possibly not make the mistakes of our
        ancestors....or should i say to improve our collective existence for the
        betterment of all.....and you are right, i cannot find where sartre said "human
        beings are a waste"....i am confused....wait, maybe not.....i think....i think
        i am......therefore i am....i think......arrrgggghhhhhhh!!!!!!!!....i wish i
        understood me.........


        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Shadab Murtaza
        Dont be angry at me dear. My theory is simple enough. We should know and understand in order to change: a transfomration of existing class-ridden society into
        Message 3 of 18 , Jul 26 4:01 AM
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          Dont be angry at me dear. My theory is simple enough. We should know and
          understand in order to change: a transfomration of existing class-ridden
          society into a society without classes. Discussing individual psychological
          problems is important but this psychology is based on subjectivity. I am not
          because I think. I think, I m and therefore I think. I have never known a
          person who still continued to think even prior to his birth or after death.

          >From: eram8t8@...
          >Reply-To: Sartre@yahoogroups.com
          >To: Sartre@yahoogroups.com
          >Subject: Re: [Sartre] freedom
          >Date: Tue, 25 Jul 2006 20:16:16 EDT
          >
          >
          >In a message dated 7/25/2006 8:40:09 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,
          >shadabmurtaza@... writes:
          >
          >I think you are
          >most haunted by the past. It is important to know what we did and how
          >
          >
          >so you do understand me....i AM haunted by the past, as i do believe we
          >need
          >to know what we did and how....thereby possibly not make the mistakes of
          >our
          >ancestors....or should i say to improve our collective existence for the
          >betterment of all.....and you are right, i cannot find where sartre said
          >"human
          >beings are a waste"....i am confused....wait, maybe not.....i think....i
          >think
          >i am......therefore i am....i think......arrrgggghhhhhhh!!!!!!!!....i wish
          >i
          > understood me.........
          >
          >
          >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          >

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        • eram8t8@aol.com
          In a message dated 7/26/2006 6:02:16 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, shadabmurtaza@hotmail.com writes: Dont be angry at me dear. My theory is simple enough. We
          Message 4 of 18 , Jul 26 7:36 AM
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            In a message dated 7/26/2006 6:02:16 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,
            shadabmurtaza@... writes:

            Dont be angry at me dear. My theory is simple enough. We should know and
            understand in order to change: a transfomration of existing class-ridden
            society into a society without classes


            i am by no means angry at you....but frustrated with the world
            situation....i agree that we should know and understand in order to
            change......transformation of an existing class-ridden society into a society without classes would
            be for me .....utopia!


            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • Travis Smith
            Sarte disagreed with Freud about the division of psyche. He didn t care whether you labeled our thoughts conscious or unconscious, ego or id. Regardless of the
            Message 5 of 18 , Jul 28 10:43 PM
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              Sarte disagreed with Freud about the division of psyche. He didn't care whether you labeled our thoughts conscious or unconscious, ego or id. Regardless of the label applied, these are parts of one being. And that being is responsible for creating an essence. The implication is that we are without excuse. That's scarier than any christian religion preaching hell and sin.

              eram8t8@... wrote:
              In a message dated 7/25/2006 8:40:09 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,
              shadabmurtaza@... writes:

              I think you are
              most haunted by the past. It is important to know what we did and how

              so you do understand me....i AM haunted by the past, as i do believe we need
              to know what we did and how....thereby possibly not make the mistakes of our
              ancestors....or should i say to improve our collective existence for the
              betterment of all.....and you are right, i cannot find where sartre said "human
              beings are a waste"....i am confused....wait, maybe not.....i think....i think
              i am......therefore i am....i think......arrrgggghhhhhhh!!!!!!!!....i wish i
              understood me.........

              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]






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            • prasun chatterjee
                In our country a case of suicide becomes a hot topic for endless gosipping.Nobody delves into it.In fact nobody wants to give adeep thought.In fact we do
              Message 6 of 18 , Aug 30, 2006
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                In our country a case of suicide becomes a hot topic for endless gosipping.Nobody delves into it.In fact nobody wants to give adeep thought.In fact we do not consider it as amatter of agony or of measure of unbearable pain a person suffers.To me a case of suicide is a matter of surfacing all the boreness which has been hitherto precipitated. It is stirred up.

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              • rtherriault@live.com
                A large amount of the writings of the existentialists are concerned with freedom. Freedom, however, seems to be reduced to choice. Sartre said You can choose
                Message 7 of 18 , Sep 24, 2008
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                  A large amount of the writings of the existentialists are concerned with freedom. Freedom, however, seems to be reduced to choice. Sartre said "You can choose to choose and you can choose not to choose, but you cannot choose not to choose." How does this play out in something like "No Exit?"

                  Your Friendly Philosopher

                  Bob

                  http://www.stairwaytoparadise.blogspot.com
                  http://www.jazzmoods.blogspot.com
                  http://www.holism4us.blogspot.com
                  http://www.ethicswithoutwalls.blogspot.com

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                • bla bla
                  This group doesn t seem to be real active currently, and I m not as up on No Exit as I d like, but my impression from my feeble memory of Garcin in
                  Message 8 of 18 , Sep 25, 2008
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                    This group doesn't seem to be real active currently, and I'm not as up on "No Exit" as I'd like, but my impression from my feeble memory of Garcin in particular was that he wasn't really free at all, he seemed to have been driven by the judgements about him by "other people" (hell I suppose) ... being for others and all that.  (Incidently it just occurred to me the lyrics from the song by Rush, "Freewill" ... "If you choose not to decide you still have made a choice", seems to be the saying same thing, Neal Peart perhaps was up on his Sartre as well as his Ayn Rand?)
                     
                    In Dostoyevsky's "Notes from Underground", the narrator comments about freewill really being an illusion, as all our decisions and actions, he postulates, can be expressed using logic and reason with sophisticated enough techniques, much like a table of logarithms, or a simple expression of 2x2=4 ... Odd though, I thought, that the narrator then went on to say that he abhorred such a statement as 2x2=4, perhaps it was his own struggle for authenticity and rebellion against the system which he was inherently a participant, willing or not?

                    --- On Wed, 9/24/08, rtherriault@... <rtherriault@...> wrote:

                    From: rtherriault@... <rtherriault@...>
                    Subject: [Sartre] freedom
                    To: Sartre@yahoogroups.com
                    Date: Wednesday, September 24, 2008, 6:37 AM






                    A large amount of the writings of the existentialists are concerned with freedom. Freedom, however, seems to be reduced to choice. Sartre said "You can choose to choose and you can choose not to choose, but you cannot choose not to choose." How does this play out in something like "No Exit?"

                    Your Friendly Philosopher

                    Bob

                    http://www.stairway toparadise. blogspot. com
                    http://www.jazzmood s.blogspot. com
                    http://www.holism4u s.blogspot. com
                    http://www.ethicswi thoutwalls. blogspot. com

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