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Re: [Sartre] The basis of alienation.

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  • katy bothwell
    Oh rubbish, Heidegger s girlfriend was the great feminist and protector of human rights, Hannah Arendt who wrote so informatively (if depressingly) about the
    Message 1 of 26 , May 1 2:55 AM
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      Oh rubbish, Heidegger's girlfriend was the great
      feminist and protector of human rights, Hannah Arendt
      who wrote so informatively (if depressingly) about the
      holocaust in Eichmann in Jerusalem, an excellent read
      from a moral psychology point of view. Was he really
      that mean to him cos she was awfully loyal to him.
      I thought you rolly smoking black clad folk would have
      chucked me out of this forum by now. Haven't heard
      any more from that Earl, wonder if she still wants
      help for that journal submission (yes, and sex, drugs
      and money???)
      Read Existentialism by David Cooper, well I had to,
      and he talks about how the practical understanding
      grounds the theoretical, and mentions some weird
      obscure poiunts like capitalism being dualism's
      hangover. All about alienation. Good stuff!

      not lost but stuck in a void

      =====
      There's no such thing as a stupid question, only stupid people.

      __________________________________________________
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    • katy bothwell
      Oh rubbish, Heidegger s girlfriend was Hannah Arendt, great feminist and protector of human rights who wrote informatively about the holocaust in Eichmann in
      Message 2 of 26 , May 1 3:07 AM
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        Oh rubbish, Heidegger's girlfriend was Hannah Arendt,
        great feminist and protector of human rights who wrote
        informatively about the holocaust in Eichmann in
        Jerusalem, an excellent read for anyone interested in
        moral psychology. Was he really that mean to her?
        Cos she was awfully loyal to him.
        I expected you roll up smoking, black clad folk to
        have chucked me out of this forum by now. Wondering
        what happened to that Earl who wanted help with her
        journal submission (in return for sex, drugs and
        money??)
        Read Existentialism by David Cooper, well I had to,
        and it has some interesting points about theoretical
        understanding grounding the practical, and more
        obscure ones about capitalism being dualism's
        hangover. All about alienation really. Good stuff!

        not lost but stuck in the void


        =====
        There's no such thing as a stupid question, only stupid people.

        __________________________________________________
        Yahoo! Plus
        For a better Internet experience
        http://www.yahoo.co.uk/btoffer
      • anjo3jantz@aol.com
        You forgot to mention that Heidegger had a wife who did all the domestic chores, raised the children and took care of him, so that he could have affairs with
        Message 3 of 26 , May 1 5:31 AM
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          You forgot to mention that Heidegger had a wife who did all the domestic
          chores, raised the children and took care of him, so that he could have
          affairs with Arendt and many other women.


          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • John Foster
          Mrs. Heidegger was also a trained philosopher as well. They met while in university. john ... From: To: Sent:
          Message 4 of 26 , May 1 10:52 AM
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            Mrs. Heidegger was also a trained philosopher as well.
            They met while in university.

            john




            ----- Original Message -----
            From: <anjo3jantz@...>
            To: <Sartre@yahoogroups.com>
            Sent: Thursday, May 01, 2003 5:31 AM
            Subject: Re: [Sartre] The basis of alienation.


            > You forgot to mention that Heidegger had a wife who did all the domestic
            > chores, raised the children and took care of him, so that he could have
            > affairs with Arendt and many other women.
            >
            >
            > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            >
            >
            >
            > To unsubscribe, e-mail: Sartre-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
            >
            >
            > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
            >
            >
            >
          • bjunius30
            Interesting thoughts. What do you think about alienation in society, and you as the subject of it s alienation toward you. What are your thoughts on that
            Message 5 of 26 , May 1 10:59 AM
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              Interesting thoughts.

              What do you think about alienation in society, and you as the subject
              of it's alienation toward you. What are your thoughts on that subject?
              And please refrain from Martin Heidegger wording (I don't
              particularly care for leftist-social marxism views). It would be
              better if i could get some personal feedback of the subject.

              Bryan Evan Junius


              --- In Sartre@yahoogroups.com, "Leon McQuaid" <leonpmcquaid@h...>
              wrote:
              > I don't like all this talk about male/female nature. I think we
              have a poor
              > appreciation of what power is exactly. I am writing a fictional
              story now
              > that deals with relationships: life, power, desire, and
              communication. I am
              > thinking about power as necessity. Nietzsche thought that the
              greatest
              > power that can be harness is the power of forgetting (basically
              > propaganda)... but dig this idea:
              > the universe is unfolding and so each state of existance follows
              causally
              > and necessary from the prior one. Then the universe is sovereign,
              and
              > contains all necessity and power in itself: That is to say that
              nothing
              > else is sovereign or can be so. We use knowledge, which is
              dissimulation,
              > to explain causality, but we cant comprehend it completely (we more
              or less
              > guesses or lie). The most powerful person appears to not need
              anything or
              > body else, but of course it is only a deception. This explains
              ascetic
              > values as well: if I deny my desire I become not needn't of
              anything, thus I
              > am powerful. Think about despots or academics: I convince you that
              I don't
              > need you but you need me.
              > The larger our world becomes the more complex it becomes and so too
              do power
              > webs.
              > Another thought in this vein is the barbaric vs. the cultured. I
              define a
              > barbaric culture as that that is held in place by the most
              rudimentary power
              > tools like actual physical violence or oversimplified propoganda,
              and mental
              > menipulation, to keep the system working. The cultured or higher
              culture is
              > merely the more honest one, the one that doesnt see ends-in-
              themself.
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > >From: anjo3jantz@a...
              > >Reply-To: Sartre@yahoogroups.com
              > >To: Sartre@yahoogroups.com
              > >Subject: Re: [Sartre] The basis of alienation.
              > >Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2003 19:39:42 EDT
              > >
              > >Well, if women were larger and stronger than men, we'd probably be
              talking
              > >about the oppression of men by women.
              > >
              > >I think the oppression of women (most especially in Moslem
              countries and
              > >certain Third World cultures) does have its roots in the primeval
              and
              > >physiological aspects of male/female relationships. The cavewoman
              caring
              > >for
              > >the children and preparing meals, while the male hunter/gatherer
              obtained
              > >the
              > >food and fought off predators. And if he didn't like his mate's
              cooking,
              > >he,
              > >being stronger and more aggressive by nature, probably beat her
              without
              > >giving it a second thought. (If there any cavemen out there
              reading this, I
              > >apologize for any offense.) Then he probably raped her.
              > >
              > >Power is central in any civilization. But power almost invariably
              leads to
              > >abuse of that power, and since men have wielded that power
              throughout
              > >history, they have used it in just about every imaginable
              destructive way,
              > >and this would include the oppression of women. What we've been
              seeing in
              > >the muslim countries is nothing short of primitive barbarism. I'm
              not
              > >saying
              > >there haven't been, or are not now, women who are violent and
              tyrannical.
              > >History is full of them. But it's interesting to ponder how our
              world
              > >might
              > >be different if women had shaped it instead of men. Men are
              undoubtedly
              > >more
              > >aggressive than women, by nature (all that testosterone, I
              suppose). I
              > >suspect there would have been a lot less violence.
              > >
              > >All this is not to say that there isn't female oppression, or at
              least
              > >sexism, in Western society and here in America. There certainly
              is. But
              > >there has developed in the west a greater sensitivity among both
              men and
              > >women about such oppression and unfair-ness. Sartre always
              respected the
              > >rights of women to be treated as equals, and I can think of no
              stronger
              > >evidence for this than the fact that he had a life-long
              companionship with
              > >Simone de Beauvoir, one of the great feminists in history. (I had
              to get
              > >Sartre in here somehow!) I could be wrong, but instinct tells me
              that
              > >Heidegger was keen on keeping the little women in their place,
              that is, in
              > >the kitchen, and in bed. (I had to get Heidegger in here somehow!)
              > >
              > >Andrew
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              > >
              >
              >
              > _________________________________________________________________
              > Add photos to your e-mail with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*.
              > http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail
            • bjunius30
              Which one? Freiburg? Heidelberg? ... domestic ... could have ... http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
              Message 6 of 26 , May 1 11:05 AM
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                Which one?

                Freiburg? Heidelberg?


                --- In Sartre@yahoogroups.com, "John Foster" <borealis@m...> wrote:
                > Mrs. Heidegger was also a trained philosopher as well.
                > They met while in university.
                >
                > john
                >
                >
                >
                >
                > ----- Original Message -----
                > From: <anjo3jantz@a...>
                > To: <Sartre@yahoogroups.com>
                > Sent: Thursday, May 01, 2003 5:31 AM
                > Subject: Re: [Sartre] The basis of alienation.
                >
                >
                > > You forgot to mention that Heidegger had a wife who did all the
                domestic
                > > chores, raised the children and took care of him, so that he
                could have
                > > affairs with Arendt and many other women.
                > >
                > >
                > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: Sartre-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                > >
                > >
                > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
                http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                > >
                > >
                > >
              • Leon McQuaid
                Don t know anything about Heidegger to begin with; though my thought is consumed by Nietzsche. Me the subject... I suppose I realize what is important in my
                Message 7 of 26 , May 1 2:18 PM
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                  Don't know anything about Heidegger to begin with; though my thought is
                  consumed by Nietzsche.
                  Me the subject... I suppose I realize what is important in my life on my own
                  terms and attain that. Then I would have power over everything in my world.
                  So much about todays culture is about creating need, creating the
                  apperance of necessity. Realzing what is apperance and what really makes me
                  happy: these are things that neither governmental systems nor religon can
                  give me outright, their power over me is (for the most part)only in an
                  appearance. I think these are the seeds of religon, they came out of the
                  soil of oppression, the slave morality is one that makes one think that one
                  doesnt need anything out of life. That is a half story, just as much as the
                  'american dream' is a half story. I see Nietzsche's message as being: to an
                  extent we require authority if we live in society, but not to the extent of
                  an absolute God or State--compainionship is not authorative.

                  I think that knowledge is a balancing act of dissimulation and causality.
                  That is to say we dont ever come to an understanding of anything, we only
                  come to a satisfactory one. Nietzsche knew this, and he hated religon
                  because it was the most vulgar understanding of anything. Regardless of
                  this... society attempts to tell the whole story of existance, and eveything
                  or everyone that fall between the craks of this story are the aliens. They
                  dont belong... they dont exist. Isn't that what an aliean is... one that
                  doesnt belong in a society. It is funny how most 'great men' were outcasts
                  and failures before becoming a 'genius'?--before changing the body of
                  knowledge and power.






                  >From: "bjunius30" <bjunius30@...>
                  >Reply-To: Sartre@yahoogroups.com
                  >To: Sartre@yahoogroups.com
                  >Subject: [Sartre] Re: The basis of alienation.
                  >Date: Thu, 01 May 2003 17:59:09 -0000
                  >
                  >Interesting thoughts.
                  >
                  >What do you think about alienation in society, and you as the subject
                  >of it's alienation toward you. What are your thoughts on that subject?
                  >And please refrain from Martin Heidegger wording (I don't
                  >particularly care for leftist-social marxism views). It would be
                  >better if i could get some personal feedback of the subject.
                  >
                  >Bryan Evan Junius
                  >
                  >
                  >--- In Sartre@yahoogroups.com, "Leon McQuaid" <leonpmcquaid@h...>
                  >wrote:
                  > > I don't like all this talk about male/female nature. I think we
                  >have a poor
                  > > appreciation of what power is exactly. I am writing a fictional
                  >story now
                  > > that deals with relationships: life, power, desire, and
                  >communication. I am
                  > > thinking about power as necessity. Nietzsche thought that the
                  >greatest
                  > > power that can be harness is the power of forgetting (basically
                  > > propaganda)... but dig this idea:
                  > > the universe is unfolding and so each state of existance follows
                  >causally
                  > > and necessary from the prior one. Then the universe is sovereign,
                  >and
                  > > contains all necessity and power in itself: That is to say that
                  >nothing
                  > > else is sovereign or can be so. We use knowledge, which is
                  >dissimulation,
                  > > to explain causality, but we cant comprehend it completely (we more
                  >or less
                  > > guesses or lie). The most powerful person appears to not need
                  >anything or
                  > > body else, but of course it is only a deception. This explains
                  >ascetic
                  > > values as well: if I deny my desire I become not needn't of
                  >anything, thus I
                  > > am powerful. Think about despots or academics: I convince you that
                  >I don't
                  > > need you but you need me.
                  > > The larger our world becomes the more complex it becomes and so too
                  >do power
                  > > webs.
                  > > Another thought in this vein is the barbaric vs. the cultured. I
                  >define a
                  > > barbaric culture as that that is held in place by the most
                  >rudimentary power
                  > > tools like actual physical violence or oversimplified propoganda,
                  >and mental
                  > > menipulation, to keep the system working. The cultured or higher
                  >culture is
                  > > merely the more honest one, the one that doesnt see ends-in-
                  >themself.
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > >From: anjo3jantz@a...
                  > > >Reply-To: Sartre@yahoogroups.com
                  > > >To: Sartre@yahoogroups.com
                  > > >Subject: Re: [Sartre] The basis of alienation.
                  > > >Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2003 19:39:42 EDT
                  > > >
                  > > >Well, if women were larger and stronger than men, we'd probably be
                  >talking
                  > > >about the oppression of men by women.
                  > > >
                  > > >I think the oppression of women (most especially in Moslem
                  >countries and
                  > > >certain Third World cultures) does have its roots in the primeval
                  >and
                  > > >physiological aspects of male/female relationships. The cavewoman
                  >caring
                  > > >for
                  > > >the children and preparing meals, while the male hunter/gatherer
                  >obtained
                  > > >the
                  > > >food and fought off predators. And if he didn't like his mate's
                  >cooking,
                  > > >he,
                  > > >being stronger and more aggressive by nature, probably beat her
                  >without
                  > > >giving it a second thought. (If there any cavemen out there
                  >reading this, I
                  > > >apologize for any offense.) Then he probably raped her.
                  > > >
                  > > >Power is central in any civilization. But power almost invariably
                  >leads to
                  > > >abuse of that power, and since men have wielded that power
                  >throughout
                  > > >history, they have used it in just about every imaginable
                  >destructive way,
                  > > >and this would include the oppression of women. What we've been
                  >seeing in
                  > > >the muslim countries is nothing short of primitive barbarism. I'm
                  >not
                  > > >saying
                  > > >there haven't been, or are not now, women who are violent and
                  >tyrannical.
                  > > >History is full of them. But it's interesting to ponder how our
                  >world
                  > > >might
                  > > >be different if women had shaped it instead of men. Men are
                  >undoubtedly
                  > > >more
                  > > >aggressive than women, by nature (all that testosterone, I
                  >suppose). I
                  > > >suspect there would have been a lot less violence.
                  > > >
                  > > >All this is not to say that there isn't female oppression, or at
                  >least
                  > > >sexism, in Western society and here in America. There certainly
                  >is. But
                  > > >there has developed in the west a greater sensitivity among both
                  >men and
                  > > >women about such oppression and unfair-ness. Sartre always
                  >respected the
                  > > >rights of women to be treated as equals, and I can think of no
                  >stronger
                  > > >evidence for this than the fact that he had a life-long
                  >companionship with
                  > > >Simone de Beauvoir, one of the great feminists in history. (I had
                  >to get
                  > > >Sartre in here somehow!) I could be wrong, but instinct tells me
                  >that
                  > > >Heidegger was keen on keeping the little women in their place,
                  >that is, in
                  > > >the kitchen, and in bed. (I had to get Heidegger in here somehow!)
                  > > >
                  > > >Andrew
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  > > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > _________________________________________________________________
                  > > Add photos to your e-mail with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*.
                  > > http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail
                  >


                  _________________________________________________________________
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                • bjunius30
                  Leon:) Excellent points you ve made! Man alone is the subjectivity of his existence, and if personified by his existence (part of the underlying will//Arther
                  Message 8 of 26 , May 2 6:26 AM
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                    Leon:)

                    Excellent points you've made! Man alone is the subjectivity of his
                    existence, and if personified by his existence (part of the
                    underlying will//Arther Schopenhauer//) he becomes either functional
                    of the society or becomes the cog to the spin of a wheel, causality
                    by existence + function in the processes of society.
                    Jean Paul Sartre professed that existence precedes essence and that
                    we are nothing but existence when left with that subjective view in
                    the end, however, the opposing point and weakness of the argument is
                    that by tautological approach, existence in some way has to be useful
                    though trivial by reproach of being in the world.

                    The way this can be interpreted by many can be downright cynical when
                    you think about.

                    What do you think your existence means to you, if not subverted by a
                    society of mass behavior? Hypothetically, could you imagine yourself
                    just "being in the world", sufficient, complete, in-your-self, born
                    into an existence (like the here-now)
                    I know this sounds like metaphysical thought, but it is not, it deals
                    more with the function of society and existence seperated from the
                    whole by individual. What do you think your experiences would be like
                    in this type of existence?

                    Example:

                    Your born in the world alone. No mother. No father. No sibling. You
                    have all these experiences. You are complete in theory, meaning you
                    have no need for materialistic things, but you know something is
                    missing. Can you relate to something like this?

                    Look forward to hearing your comments?


                    Bryan Junius

                    --- In Sartre@yahoogroups.com, "Leon McQuaid" <leonpmcquaid@h...>
                    wrote:
                    > Don't know anything about Heidegger to begin with; though my
                    thought is
                    > consumed by Nietzsche.
                    > Me the subject... I suppose I realize what is important in my life
                    on my own
                    > terms and attain that. Then I would have power over everything in
                    my world.
                    > So much about todays culture is about creating need, creating the
                    > apperance of necessity. Realzing what is apperance and what really
                    makes me
                    > happy: these are things that neither governmental systems nor
                    religon can
                    > give me outright, their power over me is (for the most part)only in
                    an
                    > appearance. I think these are the seeds of religon, they came out
                    of the
                    > soil of oppression, the slave morality is one that makes one think
                    that one
                    > doesnt need anything out of life. That is a half story, just as
                    much as the
                    > 'american dream' is a half story. I see Nietzsche's message as
                    being: to an
                    > extent we require authority if we live in society, but not to the
                    extent of
                    > an absolute God or State--compainionship is not authorative.
                    >
                    > I think that knowledge is a balancing act of dissimulation and
                    causality.
                    > That is to say we dont ever come to an understanding of anything,
                    we only
                    > come to a satisfactory one. Nietzsche knew this, and he hated
                    religon
                    > because it was the most vulgar understanding of anything.
                    Regardless of
                    > this... society attempts to tell the whole story of existance, and
                    eveything
                    > or everyone that fall between the craks of this story are the
                    aliens. They
                    > dont belong... they dont exist. Isn't that what an aliean is...
                    one that
                    > doesnt belong in a society. It is funny how most 'great men' were
                    outcasts
                    > and failures before becoming a 'genius'?--before changing the body
                    of
                    > knowledge and power.
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > >From: "bjunius30" <bjunius30@n...>
                    > >Reply-To: Sartre@yahoogroups.com
                    > >To: Sartre@yahoogroups.com
                    > >Subject: [Sartre] Re: The basis of alienation.
                    > >Date: Thu, 01 May 2003 17:59:09 -0000
                    > >
                    > >Interesting thoughts.
                    > >
                    > >What do you think about alienation in society, and you as the
                    subject
                    > >of it's alienation toward you. What are your thoughts on that
                    subject?
                    > >And please refrain from Martin Heidegger wording (I don't
                    > >particularly care for leftist-social marxism views). It would be
                    > >better if i could get some personal feedback of the subject.
                    > >
                    > >Bryan Evan Junius
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >--- In Sartre@yahoogroups.com, "Leon McQuaid" <leonpmcquaid@h...>
                    > >wrote:
                    > > > I don't like all this talk about male/female nature. I think we
                    > >have a poor
                    > > > appreciation of what power is exactly. I am writing a fictional
                    > >story now
                    > > > that deals with relationships: life, power, desire, and
                    > >communication. I am
                    > > > thinking about power as necessity. Nietzsche thought that the
                    > >greatest
                    > > > power that can be harness is the power of forgetting (basically
                    > > > propaganda)... but dig this idea:
                    > > > the universe is unfolding and so each state of existance follows
                    > >causally
                    > > > and necessary from the prior one. Then the universe is
                    sovereign,
                    > >and
                    > > > contains all necessity and power in itself: That is to say that
                    > >nothing
                    > > > else is sovereign or can be so. We use knowledge, which is
                    > >dissimulation,
                    > > > to explain causality, but we cant comprehend it completely (we
                    more
                    > >or less
                    > > > guesses or lie). The most powerful person appears to not need
                    > >anything or
                    > > > body else, but of course it is only a deception. This explains
                    > >ascetic
                    > > > values as well: if I deny my desire I become not needn't of
                    > >anything, thus I
                    > > > am powerful. Think about despots or academics: I convince you
                    that
                    > >I don't
                    > > > need you but you need me.
                    > > > The larger our world becomes the more complex it becomes and so
                    too
                    > >do power
                    > > > webs.
                    > > > Another thought in this vein is the barbaric vs. the cultured.
                    I
                    > >define a
                    > > > barbaric culture as that that is held in place by the most
                    > >rudimentary power
                    > > > tools like actual physical violence or oversimplified
                    propoganda,
                    > >and mental
                    > > > menipulation, to keep the system working. The cultured or
                    higher
                    > >culture is
                    > > > merely the more honest one, the one that doesnt see ends-in-
                    > >themself.
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > > >From: anjo3jantz@a...
                    > > > >Reply-To: Sartre@yahoogroups.com
                    > > > >To: Sartre@yahoogroups.com
                    > > > >Subject: Re: [Sartre] The basis of alienation.
                    > > > >Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2003 19:39:42 EDT
                    > > > >
                    > > > >Well, if women were larger and stronger than men, we'd
                    probably be
                    > >talking
                    > > > >about the oppression of men by women.
                    > > > >
                    > > > >I think the oppression of women (most especially in Moslem
                    > >countries and
                    > > > >certain Third World cultures) does have its roots in the
                    primeval
                    > >and
                    > > > >physiological aspects of male/female relationships. The
                    cavewoman
                    > >caring
                    > > > >for
                    > > > >the children and preparing meals, while the male
                    hunter/gatherer
                    > >obtained
                    > > > >the
                    > > > >food and fought off predators. And if he didn't like his
                    mate's
                    > >cooking,
                    > > > >he,
                    > > > >being stronger and more aggressive by nature, probably beat her
                    > >without
                    > > > >giving it a second thought. (If there any cavemen out there
                    > >reading this, I
                    > > > >apologize for any offense.) Then he probably raped her.
                    > > > >
                    > > > >Power is central in any civilization. But power almost
                    invariably
                    > >leads to
                    > > > >abuse of that power, and since men have wielded that power
                    > >throughout
                    > > > >history, they have used it in just about every imaginable
                    > >destructive way,
                    > > > >and this would include the oppression of women. What we've
                    been
                    > >seeing in
                    > > > >the muslim countries is nothing short of primitive barbarism.
                    I'm
                    > >not
                    > > > >saying
                    > > > >there haven't been, or are not now, women who are violent and
                    > >tyrannical.
                    > > > >History is full of them. But it's interesting to ponder how
                    our
                    > >world
                    > > > >might
                    > > > >be different if women had shaped it instead of men. Men are
                    > >undoubtedly
                    > > > >more
                    > > > >aggressive than women, by nature (all that testosterone, I
                    > >suppose). I
                    > > > >suspect there would have been a lot less violence.
                    > > > >
                    > > > >All this is not to say that there isn't female oppression, or
                    at
                    > >least
                    > > > >sexism, in Western society and here in America. There certainly
                    > >is. But
                    > > > >there has developed in the west a greater sensitivity among
                    both
                    > >men and
                    > > > >women about such oppression and unfair-ness. Sartre always
                    > >respected the
                    > > > >rights of women to be treated as equals, and I can think of no
                    > >stronger
                    > > > >evidence for this than the fact that he had a life-long
                    > >companionship with
                    > > > >Simone de Beauvoir, one of the great feminists in history. (I
                    had
                    > >to get
                    > > > >Sartre in here somehow!) I could be wrong, but instinct tells
                    me
                    > >that
                    > > > >Heidegger was keen on keeping the little women in their place,
                    > >that is, in
                    > > > >the kitchen, and in bed. (I had to get Heidegger in here
                    somehow!)
                    > > > >
                    > > > >Andrew
                    > > > >
                    > > > >
                    > > > >
                    > > > >
                    > > > >
                    > > > >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    > > > >
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    _________________________________________________________________
                    > > > Add photos to your e-mail with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*.
                    > > > http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail
                    > >
                    >
                    >
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                  • katy bothwell
                    How can you be born without a mother? What are you talking about? Science Fiction fantasy or the possibility of alienation in society today. Sure, lack of
                    Message 9 of 26 , May 2 6:49 AM
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                      How can you be born without a mother? What are you
                      talking about? Science Fiction fantasy or the
                      possibility of alienation in society today. Sure,
                      lack of family relations can make you isolated, and
                      might turn you into a pagan!! Sartre follows a more
                      political line in his argument that alienation comes
                      from the violence of our interpersonal relations and
                      the way in which the Other can threaten my freedom.
                      The Other's look is like a knife thrust piercing my
                      very being. However, now I don't have to read Sartre
                      any more I find myself less likely to want to quote
                      him and more likely to give my personal view.
                      Alienation is a topic very relevant to the pacifism
                      Sartre later adopts and the discussion members in this
                      forum had about a world without war.

                      void girl

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                    • bjunius30
                      Technology is devastating as it is fascinating, yet logic will never come to compromise upon humanity as the much needed necessity of tool. Kathy, These were
                      Message 10 of 26 , May 2 6:59 AM
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                        Technology is devastating as it is fascinating, yet logic will never
                        come to compromise upon humanity as the much needed necessity of tool.

                        Kathy,

                        These were only hypothetical comments. I would love to hear your
                        opinions.

                        Bryan Junius

                        --- In Sartre@yahoogroups.com, katy bothwell <katybothwell@y...>
                        wrote:
                        > How can you be born without a mother? What are you
                        > talking about? Science Fiction fantasy or the
                        > possibility of alienation in society today. Sure,
                        > lack of family relations can make you isolated, and
                        > might turn you into a pagan!! Sartre follows a more
                        > political line in his argument that alienation comes
                        > from the violence of our interpersonal relations and
                        > the way in which the Other can threaten my freedom.
                        > The Other's look is like a knife thrust piercing my
                        > very being. However, now I don't have to read Sartre
                        > any more I find myself less likely to want to quote
                        > him and more likely to give my personal view.
                        > Alienation is a topic very relevant to the pacifism
                        > Sartre later adopts and the discussion members in this
                        > forum had about a world without war.
                        >
                        > void girl
                        >
                        > __________________________________________________
                        > Yahoo! Plus
                        > For a better Internet experience
                        > http://www.yahoo.co.uk/btoffer
                      • John Foster
                        Subject: Re: [Sartre] Re: The basis of alienation. ... Or born with a tooth? I guess it depends on if your mother survives childbirth. There have been
                        Message 11 of 26 , May 2 11:19 PM
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                          Subject: Re: [Sartre] Re: The basis of alienation.


                          > How can you be born without a mother?

                          Or born with a tooth? I guess it depends on if your mother survives
                          childbirth. There have been accidents where the mother has died, and the
                          surgen is called to use a C-section to remove the living fetus just after
                          the mother dies. That is being born without a mother.

                          john f




                          What are you
                          > talking about? Science Fiction fantasy or the
                          > possibility of alienation in society today. Sure,
                          > lack of family relations can make you isolated, and
                          > might turn you into a pagan!! Sartre follows a more
                          > political line in his argument that alienation comes
                          > from the violence of our interpersonal relations and
                          > the way in which the Other can threaten my freedom.
                          > The Other's look is like a knife thrust piercing my
                          > very being. However, now I don't have to read Sartre
                          > any more I find myself less likely to want to quote
                          > him and more likely to give my personal view.
                          > Alienation is a topic very relevant to the pacifism
                          > Sartre later adopts and the discussion members in this
                          > forum had about a world without war.
                          >
                          > void girl
                          >
                          > __________________________________________________
                          > Yahoo! Plus
                          > For a better Internet experience
                          > http://www.yahoo.co.uk/btoffer
                          >
                          >
                          > To unsubscribe, e-mail: Sartre-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                          >
                          >
                          > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                          >
                          >
                          >
                        • gnash323@aol.com
                          what the hell are you people talking about? is this group just a bulletin board for philosophy majors, who have no idea what they are going to do with a
                          Message 12 of 26 , May 3 12:58 AM
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                            what the hell are you people talking about? is this group just a bulletin
                            board for philosophy majors, who have no idea what they are going to do with
                            a degree in philosophy, to ramble endlessly about nothing and to use big
                            words that they don't really know what they mean?

                            please someone post something that is worth reading or a website that is not
                            a waste of cyberspace.

                            i don't mean to put any one down but this is ridiculous.

                            -beyond disillusioned


                            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                          • anjo3jantz@aol.com
                            please someone post something that is worth reading or a website that is not a waste of cyberspace. Perhaps you could post something worth reading and we
                            Message 13 of 26 , May 3 7:16 AM
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                              "please someone post something that is worth reading or a website that is not

                              a waste of cyberspace."

                              Perhaps you could post something "worth reading" and we could follow your
                              example.


                              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                            • Leon McQuaid
                              Are you referring to me? ... _________________________________________________________________ The new MSN 8: advanced junk mail protection and 2 months FREE*
                              Message 14 of 26 , May 4 4:51 AM
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                                Are you referring to me?






                                >From: anjo3jantz@...
                                >Reply-To: Sartre@yahoogroups.com
                                >To: Sartre@yahoogroups.com
                                >Subject: Re: [Sartre] Re: The basis of alienation.
                                >Date: Sat, 3 May 2003 10:16:37 EDT
                                >
                                >"please someone post something that is worth reading or a website that is
                                >not
                                >
                                >a waste of cyberspace."
                                >
                                >Perhaps you could post something "worth reading" and we could follow your
                                >example.
                                >
                                >
                                >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                >


                                _________________________________________________________________
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                              • praxistence@aol.com
                                Yes, I start yawning too when I m reading all this semi-theoretical stuff. Don t know Heidegger; only began reading Sartre for very personal reasons, adjunct
                                Message 15 of 26 , May 4 2:07 PM
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                                  Yes, I start yawning too when I'm reading all this semi-theoretical stuff.
                                  Don't know Heidegger; only began reading Sartre for very personal reasons,
                                  adjunct to Laing & Cooper. Sartre opened his Search for Method with the
                                  statement that philosophy does not exist, & I'm inclined to agree.


                                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                • Lorna Landry
                                  Why not take the initiative and post what you consider worthwhile?? Lorna gnash323@aol.com wrote:what the hell are you people talking about? is this group
                                  Message 16 of 26 , May 5 9:43 AM
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                                    Why not take the initiative and post what you consider worthwhile?? Lorna

                                    gnash323@... wrote:what the hell are you people talking about? is this group just a bulletin
                                    board for philosophy majors, who have no idea what they are going to do with
                                    a degree in philosophy, to ramble endlessly about nothing and to use big
                                    words that they don't really know what they mean?

                                    please someone post something that is worth reading or a website that is not
                                    a waste of cyberspace.

                                    i don't mean to put any one down but this is ridiculous.

                                    -beyond disillusioned


                                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


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                                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                  • praxistence@aol.com
                                    According to a contemporary of Sartre s, Henri Lefebvre, alienation occurs in every human activity. Lefebvre discerned a three-stage process in all activity,
                                    Message 17 of 26 , May 5 3:25 PM
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                                      According to a contemporary of Sartre's, Henri Lefebvre, alienation occurs in
                                      every human activity. Lefebvre discerned a three-stage process in all
                                      activity, basically from spontaneity to organization to fetishization.

                                      Even philosophy, as it were, is not exempt: clairty of thought becomes rigid
                                      ideology, which is used by govts. to oppress. The alienation occurs, I'd
                                      guess, betw. the 2d & 3d stages.


                                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                    • praxistence@aol.com
                                      I d guess whatever people post is important to them, if only for the time it takes to write & press Send. Regardless of what I think about it, for the time
                                      Message 18 of 26 , May 5 3:28 PM
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                                        I'd guess whatever people post is important to them, if only for the time it
                                        takes to write & press "Send." Regardless of what I think about it, for the
                                        time being people have the right to post whatever they want, thru the
                                        mediator. Every once in a while, there's some good stuff.


                                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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