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Re: [Sartre] Nietzsche and consumption and Sartre and Politics

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  • Stephen Cowley
    Thanks for sharing your experiences with us Amy. It seems like David Ahenakew made some stupid remarks - especially for a public representative, who must
    Message 1 of 6 , Jan 2 11:35 AM
      Thanks for sharing your experiences with us Amy. It seems like David
      Ahenakew made some stupid remarks - especially for a public representative,
      who must expect his remarks in a speech to be quoted. He should clearly
      withdraw them and apologise, and the community he represents should be
      asked to dissociate themselves from his stated views.

      I learned a lot myself from Will Kymlicka, a Canadian who has written about
      first peoples in his book Liberalism, community and Culture. You'd probably
      enjoy reading it, as it's more nearly politicisable in a modern context than
      Sartre's work.

      Best Wishes and Happy New Year

      ----- Original Message -----
      From: Amy Wing <loconito442@...>
      To: <Sartre@yahoogroups.com>
      Sent: Thursday, January 02, 2003 2:45 PM
      Subject: Re: [Sartre] Nietzsche and consumption and Sartre and Politics

      > Hi, I am new to the group and very interested in the
      > philosophy of both Jean-Paul Sartre and Simone De
      > Beauvoir. Your question connects beautifully to an
      > issue that I have lost allot of sleep over the last
      > few weeks, since it has to do with both love and
      > tolorence for our cultural, economic, etc...
      > differences. Senator David Ahenakew, a Native leader
      > who has been very active, and effective in his fight
      > for bettering education in Native communities, said
      > some pretty contraversal things to a reporter on Dec.
      > 13th about the holocaust. I am sure that the comments
      > were pretty hurtful to the Jewish community and I hate
      > it when someone or a group is hurt. The thing is
      > though is that the press who were reporting the story,
      > were pretending that they had never heard something so
      > horrible as what David Ahenakew said in all there life
      > -ya right- and were provoking people into rage with
      > the way they were covering the event. David Ahenakew
      > is the next thing to being publicly executed, and the
      > Jewish community are basically being told how they
      > should feel about the situation before they even had a
      > chance to hear what David Ahenakew meant by his
      > comments in order to decide for themselves how they
      > will react. Let me explain how the press is
      > responsible; The press is leaving out that David
      > Ahenakew said that he did not support Hitler in the
      > interview and are putting there own words in front of
      > his words. For example; They are saying that he said
      > that Hitler was right "for frying Jews" when he was
      > said that is "why" Hitler did it (He was saying that
      > the Germans were being oppressed by the Jewish
      > people). Please, I know that it sounds awful, and the
      > holocaust was terrible and awful, but how are we going
      > to live in freedom if we keep promoting hate which in
      > turn makes people enslave others that do not share
      > their experience. Although I believe that love
      > produces freedom, Simon De Beauvoir is very skeptical
      > about a sincere Love for one another. From what I can
      > understand she believes that we love freedom and that
      > we kind of transfer that love onto people that give us
      > freedom whether it be in the form of a servant or a
      > master. (I am totally paraphrasing from "The Second
      > Sex"). I think though, since what will allow us to be
      > free is culturally defined it looks like we must work
      > inside of concepts such as love, which I do not
      > believe and Simone would not believe is some universal
      > form of reason. I am getting ahead of myself. After I
      > got no-where by contacting media and newspapers and
      > asking them to mention that David Ahenakew also said
      > that he did not support Hitler, and that I did not
      > think that promoting hate against David Ahenakew was
      > going to promote peace between cultures, I wrote it on
      > a sign and went downtown Ottawa to tell people that
      > they did not hear the whole story. The sign said-David
      > Ahenakew also said that he did not support Hitler/Stop
      > Hate/Love/Show compassion at Christmas/. See, the
      > media won't accept his apology or his explantion and
      > are saying that his comments are self explanatory. No
      > they are not!! We have experienced the world
      > differently than David Ahenakew. What kind of world do
      > we live in that does not accept apologies, does not
      > let people explain, and are ready to crucifie the
      > first person who becomes vulnerable to public
      > disapproval. I found out on Dec. 24th from a news
      > station that it was the speech before the interview
      > that the press are angry about, but I no longer buy
      > that, because that is not what they are reporting.
      > They are reporting the comments he made in the
      > interview with James Parker. The one lessen that I
      > have learned through all of this is that the press do
      > not tell the truth, and they are the ones forming our
      > concepts about what is going on in the world. I wrote
      > Stop Hate/Love on my sign because even though I know
      > that Love is a subjective term, I had to use it in the
      > way Christian people understand it in order to get my
      > message across. I guess actually it was used as a
      > weapon, like I believe Christianity has used it. I was
      > thinking last night about how words are weapons. See,
      > David Ahenakew may be "stripped" of his Order of
      > Canada. Being stripped is a very violent thing to have
      > happen to you. It is kind of like he was awarded with
      > something that he could be hit with later. I know now
      > that I do not want to be awarded with the Order of
      > Canada. I really see what Simone and Jean-Paul are
      > getting at by being pessimisticstic about love. I do
      > believe though that love is possible and that it is
      > key to becoming free. I just think that maybe we need
      > to look at the fact that it means different things to
      > different people and that David Ahenakew also desires
      > the kind of love that has been culturally defined for
      > him. Regardless of the societal message in this whole
      > thing, I was in the possition where I had to choose to
      > promote a point of view--and in this case I chose
      > David Ahenakew. I am responsible. Thanks for Listening
      > --- Leon McQuaid <leonpmcquaid@...> wrote:
      > > Is there anyone out there that can talk to me about
      > > Simone De Beauvoir,
      > > especially about her philosophy on love and
      > > intersubjectivity.
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > > >From: HOOVER460@...
      > > >Reply-To: Sartre@yahoogroups.com
      > > >To: Sartre@yahoogroups.com
      > > >Subject: Re: [Sartre] Nietzsche and consumption and
      > > Sartre and Politics
      > > >Date: Wed, 1 Jan 2003 14:37:40 EST
      > > >
      > > >Richard: Where did you get the numbers, 95% in U.S.
      > > are working class and
      > > >5%
      > > >weathy? the wealthy class produces theology or
      > > anything else? You seem to
      > > >have a knack for fabrication generally. and more
      > > specially about the middle
      > > >east!
      > > >
      > > >
      > > >[Non-text portions of this message have been
      > > removed]
      > > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > _________________________________________________________________
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