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Re: [Sartre] Digest Number 155

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  • awhit@sprynet.com
    Jawwad - According to Sartre emotions aren t exactly a choice per se, but he does argue that there is a rational reason why we have them -- they are not, as
    Message 1 of 4 , Apr 28, 2000
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      Jawwad -

      According to Sartre emotions aren't exactly a choice per se, but he does argue that there is a rational
      reason why we have them -- they are not, as many would have it, things that come up independently, some force that exists in our sub-conscious. Thus
      we can be depressed because we cannot get that which we want -- our project
      has certain goals (to marry someone, get a book published, etc.) and
      when that goal can't be met we get "depressed." Sometimes we even
      cry, which Sartre describes as an attempt to magically rectify the situation
      (the child doesn't get the toy he/she wants, so he/she starts to cry as
      if that will somehow overcome the obstacle, perhaps a recalcitrant
      parent, in the way of he/she getting the toy). If we lose a loved one, the grief
      we feel is natural enough and not really something we "choose" (I'm extrapolating here);
      however, the widow who then goes into extended mourning and seriously
      changes her life's routine, pleading she's too "depressed" or "grief-stricken" to
      do anything else, may well be choosing this mode of being not because, months
      and years after the death of her husband, she is incapacitated by grief, but because
      she is using her "grief" (even perhaps convincing herself of it) to obscure the fact
      that she simply doesn't want to engage with life in the way or fashion that
      is demanded by her new situation.

      Greg

      ----Original Message-----
      >From: "Jawwad Noor" <exxistentialist@...>
      >To: Sartre@egroups.com
      >Subject: Re: [Sartre] Digest Number 155
      >Reply-To: Sartre@egroups.com
      >Date: Friday, April 28, 2000 1:58 AM
      >
      >
      >Hi all! Could somebody please tell me: does the freedom that Sartre talks
      >about apply ONLY to conscious effort? That is to say that we are free to
      >make a conscious effort towards anything (even if it is irrational for that
      >matter). Or does freedom apply even to things like our moods,etc? That is,
      >do WE choose to be in this or that mood?
      >
      >As i have mentioned in an earlier email, in Being and NOthingness Sartre
      >talks about how the for-itself can never BE sad. He says that we can do
      >everything that expresses 'sad', but that at the end of the day it is US and
      >ONLY US that put on the frown, cry, etc. This seems to imply implicitly that
      >things like sadness are a result of our choice. But i am not so sure about
      >this becuz my moods and feelings come up themselves, and i can only make a
      >conscious effort to change them. I dont see how feeling a certain way is a
      >result of MY choice, and i dont see how i can take responsibility for it
      >when i did not create it (yes i know that i have the option of controlling
      >it, but i am not going that far).
      >
      >Thanks all!
      >
      >J
      >
      >>From: Sartre@egroups.com
      >>Reply-To: Sartre@egroups.com
      >>To: Sartre@egroups.com
      >>Subject: [Sartre] Digest Number 155
      >>Date: 28 Apr 2000 08:33:36 -0000
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      >>------------------------------------------------------------------------
      >>
      >>There is 1 message in this issue.
      >>
      >>Topics in this digest:
      >>
      >> 1. Re: limitations on radical freedom caused by the essential
      >>realness of character
      >> From: "Tommy Beavitt" <tommy@...>
      >>
      >>
      >>________________________________________________________________________
      >>________________________________________________________________________
      >>
      >>Message: 1
      >> Date: Thu, 27 Apr 2000 12:37:00 +0100
      >> From: "Tommy Beavitt" <tommy@...>
      >>Subject: Re: limitations on radical freedom caused by the essential
      >>realness of character
      >>
      >>Greg,
      >>
      >> >I think it may be misstating it to say, even casually, that
      >> > radical freedom in the Sartrean sense is the creation of your own
      >>universe.
      >> > Sartre was careful to avoid any hint of solipsism in his philosophy.
      >>He
      >> > would state radical freedom as being a situation where we always have
      >>and
      >> > always make a
      >> > choice, no matter how horrible or ridiculous the situation and range of
      >> > choices (hence the absurdity of existence).
      >>
      >>Thanks for putting me right there. I can see I was labouring under a
      >>misapprehension that Sartrean existentialism is equivalent to solipsism. I
      >>am more aware of the distinction now.
      >>
      >>On the other hand, I still wish to qualify the concept of radical freedom
      >>with the cumulative 'realness' of character that is formed by making
      >>radical
      >>choices.
      >>
      >> > there are, even, biological reasons why it becomes more difficult to
      >>radically
      >> > reinvent oneself -- but this
      >> > is neither to say it's impossible nor that it's never done.
      >>
      >>Yes, I tend to agree with this also. Radical re-invention of the self is
      >>always possible. But becomes more difficult as character forms. And, in the
      >>context of a society of other selfs, using the same language and also
      >>possessing the capacity for radical re-invention, sometimes untenable.
      >>
      >>Thanks for all the lively responses to this thread.
      >>
      >>Tommy
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