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Re: Re:[Sartre]:poverty in America, the (Global)facts

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  • Christopher Bobo
    Lewis wrote: ... EVIDENCE: O.J. Simpson Yes, even O.J. is proof of American democracy. He was acquitted of murder by a citizen jury of his peers and is free
    Message 1 of 4 , Jan 19, 2002
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      Lewis wrote:
      FACT:
      > I wish to assure every one that democracy in America
      > is alive and well . . .
      EVIDENCE:
      O.J. Simpson

      Yes, even O.J. is proof of American democracy. He was acquitted of murder by a citizen jury of his peers and is free to live his life under the protection of the laws. Ain't democracy great?

      Lewis wrote:
      FACT:
      > the voting rights of the citizens are protected
      EVIDENCE:
      G.W. Bush

      Again you are right. The election of Bush was proof of the strength of American democracy. The people voted, the electoral college votes were tabulated, and Bush came out the victor under our laws. The entire matter was hotly--but peacefully disputed in the offices, streets, schools and courts--all the way to the highest court in the land. Our system of laws was debated, scrutinized and vindicated. When it was all over, the outcome was declared and the people--including Al Gore and his supporters--accepted it as right and just. The entire episode was a glorious spectacle of democracy in action. Power passed peacefully as the law declared it should and no one got shot, no one got killed and nothing got burned down.

      Lewis wrote:
      >>FACT:
      > The data on the "haves" and "have nots" in America
      > is scrupulously gathered, maintained and made
      > public.
      EVIDENCE:
      So that less than 4% of the world's population can
      continue to better plan and control over 95% of the
      world's wealth.<<

      Here, I must confess that I don't know what Lewis is talking about. What "world wealth". The world is an inanimate object, it doesn't have "wealth." Only people have "wealth". What's more, one man's wealth is another man's pointless distraction. St. Francis of Assis gave away all his worldly possessions to live a life of poverty. Jean Paul Sartre declined the bounty of the cash award that comes with a Noble Prize. Some people want to spend their time acquiring what they regard as "wealth" while other's don't--they want to spend their lives acquiring spirituality, or knowledge or wisdom. What's wrong with that?


      Lewis wrote:
      >>We really don't know what China has up its sleeve.
      Russia and Eastern Europe may slowly absorb itself
      into the present Western program, but China and the
      Far East, those are different civilizations all
      together. In fact, I actually see them being the
      catalyst for a peaceful socialist global e-volution.
      As for the comparison of me to that perverted form of
      Marxism manifested in the early 20th c, well, man,
      that is typical of fascist thinking. But, unbeknownst
      to people like Bobo, when their living ideology comes
      face to face with the living history of the East, they
      and all their kind will have already changed for the
      better. And if they don't -- well, then the future
      doesn't really matter, as the whole human race will
      soon all be dead anyway. <<

      Sure we do. They are embracing capitalism is a big way. As Americans, all we need to do to verify this is look at the products we are using. Increasingly, these are manufactured in China. Cups, toys, sewing kits, calculators, tabe recorders, American flags, etc. are all flooding into this country from China, of all places. There was recently a great row of berets that our soldiers were to wear. It was discovered that these were to be maufuactured in China, which caused quite a stir in Washington. China's path out of the poverty caused by forty years of communism is clearly to join the World Trade Organization, put their people to work manufacturing goods and selling these goods to the West. In other words, they are moving to embrace capitalism, even though they will surely retain some system of socialism. (By the way, you are no doubt aware that periodically hundreds of Chinese citizens load themselves into cargo containers bound for the U.S. and try to ship themselves to America, all in the hopes of living the American dream--which you seem to disdain.

      Lewis said:
      FACT:
      >>> Yet we see no immigration of America's
      > so-called "poor" people to Mexico or Canada
      EVIDENCE:
      But I see a lot of those 'rich' corporate-Americans
      come to my home here in Canada and tear down my last
      places of refuge -- the neighborhood independent
      coffee shops and book stores -- to put up another
      Starbucks and Chapters. Incidentally, the director of
      Chapter's here in Canada has banned "Mein Kempf" from
      its shelves. I wonder what she intends to replace it
      with, perhaps she's waiting for a totalitarian
      American substitute, something like maybe "Our
      Struggle" by G. Bush and Son.
      Oh, I'll tell you Canada was a whole lot better place
      when the majority of our American immigrants were Viet
      Nam draftdogers. But how fast guys like Bobo forget
      about these things, preferring to confuse older
      traditional forms of Imperialism, which ultimately
      fosters immigration, with America's present commercial
      imperialism, which, instead of fostering immigration,
      ultimately ends in the terrorism it is now subject to
      and the bombing of opposing civilizations in which it
      is now forced to retaliate with. <<

      Although I have not heard of "Chapters" (we don't seem to have it in my like neck of America-Los Angeles), I am familiar with Starbucks. You really ought to study the history of Starbucks. As I recall, it started out as a little neighborhood coffee shop run by counter-culture, leftist oriented cultural dissidents who in an earlier era might have Vietnam draft dodgers. Starbucks started out as a single (as you would say "independent" "neighborhood") coffee shop in Seattle, Washington in 1971.
      See their web site at: http://www.starbucks.com/aboutus/overview.asp
      It's an international corporation today because its founders worked hard and people liked their product. What's wrong with that?

      Lewis said:
      >>But how fast guys like Bobo forget
      about these things, preferring to confuse older
      traditional forms of Imperialism, which ultimately
      fosters immigration, with America's present commercial
      imperialism, which, instead of fostering immigration,
      ultimately ends in the terrorism it is now subject to
      and the bombing of opposing civilizations in which it
      is now forced to retaliate with. <<

      What "things" do you accuse me of forgeting? I really dispute the idea of "commerical imperialism". If you don't want to got to Starbucks--don't go there! No body is holding a gun to your head making you drink their coffee. If you don't want to shop at "Chapter's" you are quite free not to do so. Amazon.com would be happy to see you, as would Barnes and Noble and Borders and B. Dalton and a variety of mail-order book clubs.


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