>>Bin Laden is "westernized", as Gandhi was ... and Mandela, and Castro,
and Nasser, and Mao, and Kim Il Sung, and Khaddafi, and Saddam
Hussein...My point was that people who become successful is rising up against
oppression are people who are *adapted* to a form of fight they don't
choose.Bin Laden has had to raise funds, to set up networks of delegation, to
make compromises and to resolve contradictions: to build up an
organization, effective by western standards.<<
But Marc, accumulating funds, organizing, delegating, compromising, resolving contradictions and being efffective are not strictly "Western" attributes. Just look at the Indian caste system or the Chinese Empire. Native Americans organized tribes and nations quite effectively before the white man showed up on North America. And this isn't just from the "winners" view of history, it's from an objective look at history.
Marc also wrote:
>>There are historically no Arab *states* -- the existing ones came into
existence as a consequence of, or a reaction to colonization, and the
rationalization of the petrol economy.<<
I also think Arab nations had kingdoms and tribal states before the advent of Western power. During the European Dark Ages, Arab kingdoms where flourishing. The greatness of Syria and Baghdad and Jordan date back to Biblical times. In fact, isn't Egypt one of the, if not the, oldest nation in the world? Egypt's grandeur as a nation long preceded that of any European nation.
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