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Re: [Sartre] Question.

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  • T. Emerson
    Is God an empty signifier? I never truly understood Soren Kierkegard s Christian Existentialism , it seems an oxymoron to me. ...
    Message 1 of 6 , Mar 13 11:46 AM
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      Is "God" an empty signifier? I never truly understood Soren Kierkegard's
      "Christian Existentialism", it seems an oxymoron to me.


      >It is generally noted that the departure point for
      >existentialism is taken from the argument: God doesn�t
      >exist.
      >
      >Existence of God cannot be disputed either way, and
      >that is not the point. Point being: Some
      >existentialists declare God�s existence; some
      >existentialists even claim he exists but his existence
      >makes no different. So even if God exist�-it doesn�t
      >matter? I don�t understand. I�m more incline to
      >contend that a God�s existence counterpoints the
      >fundamentals of existentialism; if he exist, how then
      >can existence come before essence?
      >
      >S.

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    • T. Emerson
      Is God an empty signifier? I never truly understood Soren Kierkegard s Christian Existentialism , it seems an oxymoron to me. ...
      Message 2 of 6 , Mar 13 11:47 AM
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        Is "God" an empty signifier? I never truly understood Soren Kierkegard's
        "Christian Existentialism", it seems an oxymoron to me.


        >It is generally noted that the departure point for
        >existentialism is taken from the argument: God doesn�t
        >exist.
        >
        >Existence of God cannot be disputed either way, and
        >that is not the point. Point being: Some
        >existentialists declare God�s existence; some
        >existentialists even claim he exists but his existence
        >makes no different. So even if God exist�-it doesn�t
        >matter? I don�t understand. I�m more incline to
        >contend that a God�s existence counterpoints the
        >fundamentals of existentialism; if he exist, how then
        >can existence come before essence?
        >
        >S.

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      • Russell, J. Michael
        Right in there with slogan *existence precedes essence,* less often quoted, is *we must start from the subjective.* That s crucial for understanding the
        Message 3 of 6 , Mar 13 5:34 PM
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          Right in there with slogan *existence precedes essence,* less often quoted,
          is *we must start from the subjective.* That's crucial for understanding
          the respect in which it doesn't matter whether or not God exists.
          Subjectively, I am ongoingly faced with choice about what to value and what
          to do. Whether God exists doesn't matter in that even if there were a God,
          and even if God has a vision of how I ought to live, this cannot relieve me
          of the responsibility for choosing how to live, and whether to live by that
          blueprint. A valid proof of God's existence would not relieve me of the
          anxiety of being free with respect to whether I will live as I think God
          wants. As long as I am alive I cannot be summed up as if I were a fixed and
          finished thing: in that respect I cannot *be* someone who lives according to
          God's plan for me, any more than I can *be* a coward, or brave, or a good
          husband.

          -- Michael Russell

          -----Original Message-----
          From: Som A. Tsoi [mailto:somurai@...]
          Sent: Monday, March 13, 2000 11:32 AM
          To: Sartre@onelist.com
          Subject: [Sartre] Question.


          From: "Som A. Tsoi" <somurai@...>

          It is generally noted that the departure point for
          existentialism is taken from the argument: God doesn't
          exist.

          Existence of God cannot be disputed either way, and
          that is not the point. Point being: Some
          existentialists declare God's existence; some
          existentialists even claim he exists but his existence
          makes no different. So even if God exist--it doesn't
          matter? I don't understand. I'm more incline to
          contend that a God's existence counterpoints the
          fundamentals of existentialism; if he exist, how then
          can existence come before essence?

          S.

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        • DJRNews@aol.com
          In a message dated 13/3/00 7:41pm GMT Standard Time, somurai@yahoo.com writes:
          Message 4 of 6 , Mar 14 1:27 AM
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            In a message dated 13/3/00 7:41pm GMT Standard Time, somurai@... writes:

            << I don’t understand. I’m more incline to contend that a God’s existence
            counterpoints the fundamentals of existentialism; if he exist, how then can
            existence come before essence? >>

            That existence precedes essence in the case of man is Sartre's definition of
            existentialism and is not accepted by other atheistic existentialists, let
            alone Christian ones.

            Don.

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          • Jack
            ... I thought that that quote actually makes it matter wheather or not God exists. If God exists then we have essence before existence. God created us in his
            Message 5 of 6 , Mar 14 3:27 AM
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              > Right in there with slogan *existence precedes essence,* less often quoted,
              > is *we must start from the subjective.* That's crucial for understanding
              > the respect in which it doesn't matter whether or not God exists.

              I thought that that quote actually makes it matter wheather
              or not God exists. If God exists then we have essence
              before existence. God created us in his own image and
              breathes life, essence into us. Doesn't this contradict the
              quote?

              Even though God may have no hold over our actual lives, we
              can choose do do what we want, and be responsible for those
              actions, the problem arises because by the existence of God
              we have no choice over the essence which God imparts to use
              in our creation. So although we may determione our lives,
              our essence from point 0 has been determined by God...



              Jack
            • Russell, J. Michael
              The idea is that atheistic and theistic existentialists have it in common that subjectively we are each faced with having to choose, and the fact, if it were
              Message 6 of 6 , Mar 14 9:34 AM
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                The idea is that atheistic and theistic existentialists have it in common
                that subjectively we are each faced with having to choose, and the fact, if
                it were one, that some God has a blueprint for us, can't save us from the
                anxiety of having to choose. Kierkegaard thinks so every bit as much as
                Sartre.

                -----Original Message-----
                From: Jack [mailto:jack.darach@...]
                Sent: Tuesday, March 14, 2000 3:28 AM
                To: Sartre@onelist.com
                Subject: Re: RE: [Sartre] Question.


                From: Jack <jack.darach@...>


                > Right in there with slogan *existence precedes essence,* less often
                quoted,
                > is *we must start from the subjective.* That's crucial for understanding
                > the respect in which it doesn't matter whether or not God exists.

                I thought that that quote actually makes it matter wheather
                or not God exists. If God exists then we have essence
                before existence. God created us in his own image and
                breathes life, essence into us. Doesn't this contradict the
                quote?

                Even though God may have no hold over our actual lives, we
                can choose do do what we want, and be responsible for those
                actions, the problem arises because by the existence of God
                we have no choice over the essence which God imparts to use
                in our creation. So although we may determione our lives,
                our essence from point 0 has been determined by God...



                Jack




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