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On Being vs. Doing

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  • Christopher Bobo
    bootboyesf wrote: i consider myself to be a homosexual This entire way of viewing yourself as being something is contrary to Sartre s view of the person.
    Message 1 of 3 , Oct 31, 2001
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      bootboyesf wrote:
      "i consider myself to be a homosexual"
      This entire way of viewing yourself as "being something" is contrary to
      Sartre's view of the person.  (And we have discussed this before on the
      list--how modern homosexuals view themselves.)  According to Sartre we are =
      nothing. We do not have any essence, life a homosexual essence, that
      precedes your individual existence.  According to Sartre, our choices and
      actions define who and what we are.  If you are having sexual relations with
      the opposite sex, and you are married to a person of the opposite sex,
      and you are monogamous, and you are raising children with a person of the
      opposite sex, then that makes you heterosexual, according to Sartre.  You
      may be a heterosexual with some homsexual inclinations, but in a Sartrean
      world, you are what you do. 
      How you view your situation, as Paradise or Perdition, is also up to you.
      You create your own world and give meaning to it.  You are responsible
      for your actions and your choices.  And if Sartre were here, I'm sure he'd
      tell you not to go around looking for excuses or other people to tell you
      ou what to do.  It's your choice, you decide.  And no whinning along the way.
      ----- Original Message -----
      From: bootboyesf@...
      Sent: Tuesday, October 30, 2001 12:04 AM
      To: Sartre@yahoogroups.com
      Subject: [Sartre] our own fault
      this 'new war' is, as sarte once said, our fault.....
      but let me change this boring subject. instead i would like to come =20
      out and cofess to the subject of my living in bad faith. i have een =20
      married since january. we married out of some sort of moral response =20
      to a bastard stuation. i thought it was love, but it wasn't. in fact, =20
      i consider myself to be a homosexual. now i will have to live with =20
      that 'anguish'. i know thta i put myself i this situation... no matter =20
      how much i wish it...there is no one to blame but myself. and i will =20
      live in my own puni
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      <HTML><BODY STYLE=3D"font:10pt verdana; border:none;"><DIV>bootboyesf wro=
      te:</DIV> <DIV>"i consider myself to be a homosexual"</DIV> <DIV>&nbsp;</=
      DIV> <DIV>This entire way of viewing yourself as "being something" is con=
      trary to Sartre's view of the person.&nbsp; (And we have discussed this b=
      efore on the list--how modern homosexuals view themselves.)&nbsp; Accordi=
      ng to Sartre we are nothing.&nbsp;We do not have any essence, life a homo=
      sexual essence, that precedes your individual existence.&nbsp; According =
      to Sartre, our choices and actions define who and what we are.&nbsp; If y=
      ou are having sexual relations with the opposite sex, and you are married=
       to a person of the opposite sex, and you are monogamous, and you are rai=
      sing children with a person of the opposite sex, then that makes you hete=
      rosexual, according to Sartre.&nbsp; You may be a heterosexual with some =
      homsexual inclinations, but in a Sartrean world, you are what you do.&nbs=
      p; </DIV> <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV> <DIV>How you view your situation, as Paradise=
       or Perdition, is also up to you.&nbsp; You create your own world and giv=
      e meaning to it.&nbsp; You are responsible for your actions and your choi=
      ces.&nbsp; And if Sartre were here, I'm sure he'd tell you not to go arou=
      nd looking for excuses or other people to tell you what to do.&nbsp; It's=
       your choice, you decide.&nbsp; And no whinning along the way.</DIV> <DIV=
      >&nbsp;</DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN=
      -LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px"> <D=
      IV style=3D"FONT: 10pt Arial">----- Original Message -----</DIV> <DIV sty=
      le=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; COLOR: black; FONT: 10pt Arial"><B>From:</B> b=
      ootboyesf@...</DIV> <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt Arial"><B>Sent:</B> Tu=
      esday, October 30, 2001 12:04 AM</DIV> <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt Arial"><B=
      >To:</B> Sartre@yahoogroups.com</DIV> <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt Arial"><B>=
      Subject:</B> [Sartre] our own fault</DIV> <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV><TT>this 'new =
      war' is, as sarte once said, our fault.....<BR>but let me change this bor=
      ing subject. instead i would like to come <BR>out and cofess to the subje=
      ct of my living in bad faith. i have een <BR>married since january. we ma=
      rried out of some sort of moral response <BR>to a bastard stuation. i tho=
      ught it was love, but it wasn't. in fact, <BR>i consider myself to be a h=
      omosexual. now i will have to live with <BR>that 'anguish'. i know thta i=
       put myself i this situation... no matter <BR>how much i wish it...there =
      is no one to blame but myself. and i will <BR>live in my own puni<BR><BR>=
      </TT></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>
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    • james tan
      ok, let me put it this way: chris is right, but the reason why bootboyes said he is a homosexual doesn t necessarily mean that he believed he is homosexual
      Message 2 of 3 , Nov 1, 2001
      • 0 Attachment
        ok, let me put it this way:
        chris is right, but the reason why bootboyes said he is a homosexual doesn't
        necessarily mean that he believed he is homosexual because he has a
        homosexual essence that preceded his choice to be a homosexual. it could
        also be this: he freely chose and still chooses to do things what a
        homossexual would do. a shorter way of expressing it would have been simply:
        i am a homosexual. and if this is the case, of course, it does not
        necessarily imply that he believe in a homosexual essence in him preceding
        all choices.

        james.




        From: "Christopher Bobo" <cbobo@...>
        Reply-To: Sartre@yahoogroups.com
        To: "Sartre_yahoogr" <Sartre@yahoogroups.com>
        Subject: [Sartre] On Being vs. Doing
        Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2001 13:58:26 -0800


        bootboyesf wrote:
        "i consider myself to be a homosexual"
        This entire way of viewing yourself as "being something" is contrary to
        Sartre's view of the person. (And we have discussed this before on the
        list--how modern homosexuals view themselves.) According to Sartre we are =
        nothing. We do not have any essence, life a homosexual essence, that
        precedes your individual existence. According to Sartre, our choices and
        actions define who and what we are. If you are having sexual relations with
        the opposite sex, and you are married to a person of the opposite sex,
        and you are monogamous, and you are raising children with a person of the
        opposite sex, then that makes you heterosexual, according to Sartre. You
        may be a heterosexual with some homsexual inclinations, but in a Sartrean
        world, you are what you do.
        How you view your situation, as Paradise or Perdition, is also up to you.
        You create your own world and give meaning to it. You are responsible
        for your actions and your choices. And if Sartre were here, I'm sure he'd
        tell you not to go around looking for excuses or other people to tell you
        ou what to do. It's your choice, you decide. And no whinning along the
        way.
        ----- Original Message -----
        From: bootboyesf@...
        Sent: Tuesday, October 30, 2001 12:04 AM
        To: Sartre@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: [Sartre] our own fault
        this 'new war' is, as sarte once said, our fault.....
        but let me change this boring subject. instead i would like to come =20
        out and cofess to the subject of my living in bad faith. i have een =20
        married since january. we married out of some sort of moral response =20
        to a bastard stuation. i thought it was love, but it wasn't. in fact, =20
        i consider myself to be a homosexual. now i will have to live with =20
        that 'anguish'. i know thta i put myself i this situation... no matter =20
        how much i wish it...there is no one to blame but myself. and i will =20
        live in my own puni
        ------=_NextPart_001_0000_01C16119.89102D60
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        Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
        <HTML><BODY STYLE=3D"font:10pt verdana; border:none;"><DIV>bootboyesf wro=
        te:</DIV> <DIV>"i consider myself to be a homosexual"</DIV> <DIV> </=
        DIV> <DIV>This entire way of viewing yourself as "being something" is con=
        trary to Sartre's view of the person.  (And we have discussed this b=
        efore on the list--how modern homosexuals view themselves.)  Accordi=
        ng to Sartre we are nothing. We do not have any essence, life a homo=
        sexual essence, that precedes your individual existence.  According =
        to Sartre, our choices and actions define who and what we are.  If y=
        ou are having sexual relations with the opposite sex, and you are married=
        to a person of the opposite sex, and you are monogamous, and you are rai=
        sing children with a person of the opposite sex, then that makes you hete=
        rosexual, according to Sartre.  You may be a heterosexual with some =
        homsexual inclinations, but in a Sartrean world, you are what you do.&nbs=
        p; </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>How you view your situation, as Paradise=
        or Perdition, is also up to you.  You create your own world and giv=
        e meaning to it.  You are responsible for your actions and your choi=
        ces.  And if Sartre were here, I'm sure he'd tell you not to go arou=
        nd looking for excuses or other people to tell you what to do.  It's=
        your choice, you decide.  And no whinning along the way.</DIV> <DIV=
        > </DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN=
        -LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px"> <D=
        IV style=3D"FONT: 10pt Arial">----- Original Message -----</DIV> <DIV sty=
        le=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; COLOR: black; FONT: 10pt Arial"><B>From:</B> b=
        ootboyesf@...</DIV> <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt Arial"><B>Sent:</B> Tu=
        esday, October 30, 2001 12:04 AM</DIV> <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt Arial"><B=
        >To:</B> Sartre@yahoogroups.com</DIV> <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt Arial"><B>=
        Subject:</B> [Sartre] our own fault</DIV> <DIV> </DIV><TT>this 'new =
        war' is, as sarte once said, our fault.....<BR>but let me change this bor=
        ing subject. instead i would like to come <BR>out and cofess to the subje=
        ct of my living in bad faith. i have een <BR>married since january. we ma=
        rried out of some sort of moral response <BR>to a bastard stuation. i tho=
        ught it was love, but it wasn't. in fact, <BR>i consider myself to be a h=
        omosexual. now i will have to live with <BR>that 'anguish'. i know thta i=
        put myself i this situation... no matter <BR>how much i wish it...there =
        is no one to blame but myself. and i will <BR>live in my own puni<BR><BR>=
        </TT></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>
        ------=_NextPart_001_0000_01C16119.89102D60--


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      • David Kovar
        One... I believe you are taking his statement of homosexuality too far...I think he is just saying that this who he..is or what he would have chosen.....Not
        Message 3 of 3 , Nov 2, 2001
        • 0 Attachment

          One... I believe you are taking his statement of homosexuality too far...I think he is just saying that this who he..is or what he would have chosen.....Not even sure if he is sure...But i feel that you are mistating sartre...

          "If you are having sexual relations with

          >the opposite sex, and you are married to a person of the opposite sex,

          >and you are monogamous, and you are raising children with a person of the

          >opposite sex, then that makes you heterosexual, according to Sartre" Chis Bobo stated.

          I dont think sartre would say that it makes you a hetrosexual....it is counter existentialist...the point is that your essence your being is always being recreated...it means that there is not exacty being...to that person...if he chose that it is just  a choice of that person...it doesnt mean he is anything that who he is...maybe he is being unauthenic with that choice...but to say he something say he becomes that it makes no sense...like the monster in Frankenstein said that he became what his acts...were...he became evil...our actions dont determine us...not to the point you are suggesting.

          >From: "Christopher Bobo"
          >Reply-To: Sartre@yahoogroups.com
          >To: "Sartre_yahoogr"
          >Subject: [Sartre] On Being vs. Doing
          >Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2001 13:58:26 -0800
          >
          >
          >bootboyesf wrote:
          >"i consider myself to be a homosexual"
          >This entire way of viewing yourself as "being something" is contrary to
          >Sartre's view of the person. (And we have discussed this before on the
          >list--how modern homosexuals view themselves.) According to Sartre we are =
          >nothing. We do not have any essence, life a homosexual essence, that
          >precedes your individual existence. According to Sartre, our choices and
          >actions define who and what we are. If you are having sexual relations with
          >the opposite sex, and you are married to a person of the opposite sex,
          >and you are monogamous, and you are raising children with a person of the
          >opposite sex, then that makes you heterosexual, according to Sartre. You
          >may be a heterosexual with some homsexual inclinations, but in a Sartrean
          >world, you are what you do.
          >How you view your situation, as Paradise or Perdition, is also up to you.
          >You create your own world and give meaning to it. You are responsible
          >for your actions and your choices. And if Sartre were here, I'm sure he'd
          >tell you not to go around looking for excuses or other people to tell you
          >ou what to do. It's your choice, you decide. And no whinning along the way.
          >----- Original Message -----
          >From: bootboyesf@...
          >Sent: Tuesday, October 30, 2001 12:04 AM
          >To: Sartre@yahoogroups.com
          >Subject: [Sartre] our own fault
          >this 'new war' is, as sarte once said, our fault.....
          >but let me change this boring subject. instead i would like to come =20
          >out and cofess to the subject of my living in bad faith. i have een =20
          >married since january. we married out of some sort of moral response =20
          >to a bastard stuation. i thought it was love, but it wasn't. in fact, =20
          >i consider myself to be a homosexual. now i will have to live with =20
          >that 'anguish'. i know thta i put myself i this situation... no matter =20
          >how much i wish it...there is no one to blame but myself. and i will =20
          >live in my own puni
          >------=_NextPart_001_0000_01C16119.89102D60
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          >Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
          >
          bootboyesf wro=
          >te:
          "i consider myself to be a homosexual"
           </= DIV <>>DIV>
          This entire way of viewing yourself as "being something" is con=
          >trary to Sartre's view of the person.  (And we have discussed this b=
          >efore on the list--how modern homosexuals view themselves.)  Accordi=
          >ng to Sartre we are nothing. We do not have any essence, life a homo=
          >sexual essence, that precedes your individual existence.  According =
          >to Sartre, our choices and actions define who and what we are.  If y=
          >ou are having sexual relations with the opposite sex, and you are married=
          > to a person of the opposite sex, and you are monogamous, and you are rai=
          >sing children with a person of the opposite sex, then that makes you hete=
          >rosexual, according to Sartre.  You may be a heterosexual with some =
          >homsexual inclinations, but in a Sartrean world, you are what you do.&nbs=
          >p;
           
          How you view your situation, as Paradise=
          > or Perdition, is also up to you.  You create your own world and giv=
          >e meaning to it.  You are responsible for your actions and your choi=
          >ces.  And if Sartre were here, I'm sure he'd tell you not to go arou=
          >nd looking for excuses or other people to tell you what to do.  It's=
          > your choice, you decide.  And no whinning along the way.
          > > 
          >-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px"> >IV style=3D"FONT: 10pt Arial">----- Original Message -----
          >le=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; COLOR: black; FONT: 10pt Arial">From: b=
          >ootboyesf@...
          Sent: Tu=
          >esday, October 30, 2001 12:04 AM
          > >To: Sartre@yahoogroups.com
          =
          >Subject: [Sartre] our own fault
           
          this 'new =
          >war' is, as sarte once said, our fault.....
          but let me change this bor=
          >ing subject. instead i would like to come
          out and cofess to the subje=
          >ct of my living in bad faith. i have een
          married since january. we ma=
          >rried out of some sort of moral response
          to a bastard stuation. i tho=
          >ught it was love, but it wasn't. in fact,
          i consider myself to be a h=
          >omosexual. now i will have to live with
          that 'anguish'. i know thta i=
          > put myself i this situation... no matter
          how much i wish it...there =
          >is no one to blame but myself. and i will
          live in my own puni

          =
          >
          >------=_NextPart_001_0000_01C16119.89102D60--


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