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Re: [Sartre] Re: Race and history

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  • james tan
    simone de beauvoir said: i am not borned a woman; i become one. james. From: loisppc@bellsouth.net Reply-To: Sartre@yahoogroups.com To:
    Message 1 of 22 , Oct 5 8:40 AM
      simone de beauvoir said:

      "i am not borned a woman; i become one."


      From: loisppc@...
      Reply-To: Sartre@yahoogroups.com
      To: Sartre@yahoogroups.com
      Subject: [Sartre] Re: Race and history
      Date: Fri, 05 Oct 2001 15:02:06 -0000

      Well, you all certainly have an interesting conversation going on
      here. While we do see (physical) racial differences, It is really an
      unknown as to how much possible biological differences can play into
      learned behavioral differences in ethnic groups.

      Are there innate behavioral differences within racial groups? No
      really good scientific method can yet completely separate the
      biological from the behavioral, in humans.

      The idea of Existentialism depends on the belief that we are all free
      to choose all of our behaviors. If, as someone pointed out, gender
      behavior is based partly on biological differences, we can't rule out
      some role that physiology plays in human behavior. We still are free
      to choose, of course, once we reach a level of conscious choice, but
      we still do not know all the factors that play into those choices.
      Note that I'm not saying necessarily that biology does influence our
      behavior, but I'm saying we can't fully rule out that possibility.


      --- In Sartre@y..., Michael Posluns <MPosluns@a...> wrote:
      > > You would deny that there are physiological
      > > differences between human beings? That there no
      > > identifiable, differntiated biogical types? That's a
      > > silly question Michael, I respect and value your
      > > opinions but I think in this case you're asking this
      > > question because you think I'm ascribing some value
      > > judgement to racial types and I'm not. That's one of
      > > the problems you get into when you discuss race. I
      > > could get even more offensive and refer to different
      > > strains of homo sapiens sapiens as 'breeds' as if we
      > > were discussing dogs or cats....:) We all know that
      > > humans tend to band together, a survival mechanism,
      > > and traditionally the easiest way to tell who was "on
      > > your side" (silly term but it fits for this
      > > discussion) is through physical appearance. Doesn't
      > > make it right, but it's true.
      > I agree that "we all know ..." but that does not answer my
      question. I am asking whether you can find any respected biologist
      who will support the notion of "race"?
      > You may think that there are definite "types" but if you try to
      sort them out and say who is "in" and who is "out" you will find that
      you quickly bog down. And the more specific you try to become
      > about racial groups -- not just the four big ones but anything more
      specific -- the more quickly you will bog down.
      > The state of Virginia had a registrar of births in the 1940s, whose
      letter is on the web and I can post it to anyone who wants it but
      cannot find it. In his letter to all local staff he declared
      > that anyone with one drop of "Negro blood" was Negro while he also
      insisted that all those communities in Virginia whose members claimed
      Native ancestry were not, in fact, to be considered Native
      > or Indian.
      > Now clearly this is a bureaucrat who delighted in oppressing people
      for the sake of advancing himself and his ideology. That said, we
      can also see how his racial theory works to break down any
      > real racial category. The person with 1/64 "Negro blood" -- if
      that were a meaningful category which I do not admit -- is denied
      under Plecker's rule any opportunity to integrate with any of the
      > communities whose blood he has in a larger quantum. But, social
      constructs and stupid laws aside, there is no racial classification
      > Likewise, those who can demonstrate a direct connection with a
      traditional Native nation and who continue to live in a Native
      community, whether their "blood quantum" be high or low are denied
      > recognition of their ancestry. Yet these folks very well might fit
      into one of your types. Then again, every traditional nation has a
      custom of adoption. So many of their leading members will
      > not fit into your racial types.
      > A United Nations agency -- perhaps UNESCO -- published a book many
      years ago entitled "The Question of Race". I suggest you read it.
      > mp
      > P.S. I do recognize that there are persons in high office who want
      a race to the end of history. Me, I'm going real slow.
      > >
      > >
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      > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
      > --
      > "Even war seldom shows as large a percentage of fatalities as does
      the education system we have imposed upon our Indian wards."...
      > Saturday Night magazine, November 23, 1907, on the report of Dr.
      P.H. Bryce,
      > Chief Medical Officer, Indian Affairs Branch.
      > "How long will you judge unjustly, and show partiality toward the
      wicked? Do justice to the poor and fatherless, deal righteously with
      the afflicted and destitute. Rescue the poor and needy;
      > save them from the hand of the wicked." (A Psalm of Asaph, The
      Psalm for the Third Day.)
      > How can we be sure that the unexamined life is not worth living?
      > Michael W. Posluns,
      > The Still Waters Group,
      > First Nations Relations & Public Policy
      > Daytime: 416 995-8613
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    • vasilis,june
      Michael, Yes.. I m in agreement with your suspicion and think that people experiencing their loves as being more loverly is the starting point... all these
      Message 2 of 22 , Oct 7 8:56 PM
        Yes.. I'm in agreement with your suspicion and think that people
        experiencing their loves as being more 'loverly' is the starting point...

        all these labels and judgements just create unnecessary barriers to truly
        experiencing one another.. and life in general..


        > ----------
        > From: Michael Posluns[SMTP:MPosluns@...]
        > Reply To: Sartre@yahoogroups.com
        > Sent: Thursday, October 04, 2001 6:40 PM
        > To: Sartre@yahoogroups.com
        > Subject: Re: [Sartre] Race and history
        > I rather suspect that in a healthier sexual environment lots of people
        > would have diverse relationships without necessarily needing to feel, "My
        > love is
        > same/different sex than I am, therefore I am homo/hetersexual."
        > Imagine if people just experienced their loves as being "loverly".
        > Wouldn't that be nice,
        > mp
        > >
        > Sartre homepage: http://www.Sartre.org.uk/
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        > HREF="http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/external-search/?keyword=Jean-Paul
        > +Sartre&tag=donaldrobertson">Click here to purchase books by Jean-Paul
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