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Re: [Sartre] Re: Challenge Determinism/predeterminism

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  • rv
    ... Hash: SHA1 Philip ... but that doesn t mean that it is deterministic either. The question still remains unsolved. By asking the wrong question, one might
    Message 1 of 49 , Sep 6, 2001
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      Philip

      > [..] Just because we do not know them does not mean that
      > it
      > > is not determined, even though it will seem so to us. But you must

      but that doesn't mean that it is deterministic either. The question
      still remains unsolved. By asking the wrong question, one might
      disregard options that might be crucial. As far as physics researches go,
      nature appears to be non-deterministic.

      > > look at the point of a objective level, observing it all happen,
      > not
      > > subjective and feeling it all happen.

      How can we be sure sure we are actually objective? Idem, as far as physics
      researches go, one doesn't seem to be able to stay objective when
      observing nature under many circonstences.

      Aloha,
      - -rv,

      - --
      "Doué d'une naïveté permanente, il vivait plus que les autres" Vian.
      http://www2.hawaii.edu/~herve/

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    • Christopher Bobo
      Philip: I think I see what you are saying. (And I hope that you don t think that I am trying to ostracize you on this list, as nothing could be further from
      Message 49 of 49 , Sep 9, 2001
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        Philip:
         
        I think I see what you are saying. (And I hope that you don't think that I am trying to ostracize you on this list, as nothing could be further from the truth.)  Because you felt ostracized at school and not very happy with yourself for getting into that situation, you believed that this ostracism could not have happened to  you voluntarily.  You believed that you wouldn't freely be lonely and miserable; therefore, something must be forcing you into this undesirable condition.  Thus, you arrived at determinism. 
         
        Two things could be said in response to that.  If you feel bad about your situation, that is your choice.  You could be indifferent to it, or you could regard your ostracism as a badge of honor, so do speak, for your exceptionalism.  You could transmute your lonely ostracism into a sort of creative solitude, and take some satisfaction from it. 
         
        In the alternative, you could seek what Sartre described as a "nihilating rupture" with the past, make a complete break with your past and go off in some other direction altogether.  You could resolve to became an agreeable, sociable, sports lovinig, tv addicted, shallow minded, anti-intellectual cretan, for example, or something in between. 
         
        The point of both responses is that you alone decide what you will do and which choice you will pursue.  Although this seems difficult, it really is quite easy.  I am reminded of the words of Kafka who said "His weariness is that of the gladiator after the combat; his work was whitewashing of a corner in a state official's office."  Kafka also comfortingly observed that "There are questions which we could never get over if we were not delivered from them by the operation of nature."  The simple moral is that things are usually not as difficult as we make them out to be and even if they are, we'll get through them by letting nature take its course, which is often  no more than the passage of time.
         
        Chris
        ----- Original Message -----
        From: Philip
        Sent: Saturday, September 08, 2001 11:40 PM
        To: Sartre@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: [Sartre] Re: Challenge Determinism/predeterminism
         
        In response to: "Sartre, of course, gives us the answer.  Through bad
        faith a person seeks to escape the responsible freedom of Being-for-
        itself.". I think this also has validity. Reason being is I would
        sometimes get annoyed with myself for being ostrasized in school
        because of being different and wanted something to vent my
        frusteration of being "me" on. The only thing is that the way I came
        up with this idea was in analyzing variables that made me, me, and
        also evolution variables, because I was working on a computer
        simulation in which I needed variables to THEORETICALLY develop
        simple "entities" to A.I. In the process I realized that I came to
        being because of these variables. Then I came up with the theory and
        found it was related to determinism. By the way I was not successful
        in the simulation because I am not a good enough programmer and my
        uncle who I got to help who works as a programmer did not have enough
        time to create whole new algoriths, so I had to download brain
        algorithms to use that took up too much memory along with all my
        other string up attachments once run and would freeze. I hstill wish
        to persue this project when I get older like in college or something
        with help of facilities, because better tech and more knowledge will
        be known.

        -phil
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