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Re: [Sartre] civility anyone?

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  • elephant
    Oh and another thing - It s now three weeks since I sent the first two unsubsribe emails. Advice other than piss off you arrogant intellectual will be
    Message 1 of 9 , Mar 20, 2001
      Re: [Sartre] civility anyone?
      Oh and another thing - It's now three weeks since I sent the first two unsubsribe emails.

      Advice other than "piss off you arrogant intellectual" will be appreciated.



      I had assumed that childish squabbling (a quality I see in an equal number of adults, and so I question my own use of "childish") among individuals on this list would be minimal.  Please...

      J. M.

      P.S. Are we not capable of using the ignore functions in our mail programs when our unsubscribe does not work within milliseconds?

      Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
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    • Kitten
      Re: [Sartre] civility anyone?Step 1. Go to the yahoo groups website. groups.yahoo.com Step 2. Enter your Yahoo! ID and password Step 3. Click Sign in
      Message 2 of 9 , Mar 21, 2001
        Re: [Sartre] civility anyone?
        Step 1.  Go to the yahoo groups website.  groups.yahoo.com
        Step 2.  Enter your "Yahoo! ID" and password
        Step 3.  Click "Sign in"
        Step 4.  Look to the left.  You will see a list of your groups.
        Step 5.  Click "Sartre"
        Step 6.  When the next page opens, at the right there is an "Unsubscribe" link.
        Step 7.  CLICK IT.
        Step 8.  Scroll to the bottom of the next page that opens and click Unsubscribe again.
         
         
        Try *not* leaving your unsubscription up to a moderator on a group that is UNMODERATED!!!!  That means, boys and girls, that your "remove" e-mails are useless because there is no one with the authority to remove you.  Now if you'll excuse me, I have to go to work.   I don't expect people to cover my responsibilities for me.
         
        J.M.
        ----- Original Message -----
        From: elephant
        Sent: Tuesday, March 20, 2001 5:12 PM
        Subject: Re: [Sartre] civility anyone?

        Oh and another thing - It's now three weeks since I sent the first two unsubsribe emails.

        Advice other than "piss off you arrogant intellectual" will be appreciated.



        I had assumed that childish squabbling (a quality I see in an equal number of adults, and so I question my own use of "childish") among individuals on this list would be minimal.  Please...

        J. M.

        P.S. Are we not capable of using the ignore functions in our mail programs when our unsubscribe does not work within milliseconds?

        Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
        Sartre homepage: http://www.Sartre.org.uk/

        To unsubscribe, e-mail: Sartre-unsubscribe@...

        <A HREF="http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/external-search/?keyword=Jean-Paul+Sartre&tag=donaldrobertson">Click here to purchase books by Jean-Paul Sartre -in association with Amazon (US).</A>


        Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> .



        Sartre homepage: http://www.Sartre.org.uk/

        To unsubscribe, e-mail: Sartre-unsubscribe@...

        <A HREF="http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/external-search/?keyword=Jean-Paul+Sartre&tag=donaldrobertson">Click here to purchase books by Jean-Paul Sartre -in association with Amazon (US).</A>


        Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
      • Hedayat Alavitabar
        Dear friends, I m a PhD student working on my thesis under the title of Sartre and Religion . I appreciate it if you let me know some resources(books and
        Message 3 of 9 , Mar 21, 2001
          Dear friends,

          I'm a PhD student working on my thesis under the title
          of "Sartre and Religion". I appreciate it if you let
          me know some resources(books and articles)related to
          this topic.

          Best wishes

          --- Kitten <gravityandlight@...> wrote:
          > Re: [Sartre] civility anyone?Step 1. Go to the
          > yahoo groups website. groups.yahoo.com
          > Step 2. Enter your "Yahoo! ID" and password
          > Step 3. Click "Sign in"
          > Step 4. Look to the left. You will see a list of
          > your groups.
          > Step 5. Click "Sartre"
          > Step 6. When the next page opens, at the right
          > there is an "Unsubscribe" link.
          > Step 7. CLICK IT.
          > Step 8. Scroll to the bottom of the next page that
          > opens and click Unsubscribe again.
          >
          >
          > Try *not* leaving your unsubscription up to a
          > moderator on a group that is UNMODERATED!!!! That
          > means, boys and girls, that your "remove" e-mails
          > are useless because there is no one with the
          > authority to remove you. Now if you'll excuse me, I
          > have to go to work. I don't expect people to cover
          > my responsibilities for me.
          >
          > J.M.
          > ----- Original Message -----
          > From: elephant
          > To: Sartre@yahoogroups.com
          > Sent: Tuesday, March 20, 2001 5:12 PM
          > Subject: Re: [Sartre] civility anyone?
          >
          >
          > Oh and another thing - It's now three weeks
          > since I sent the first two unsubsribe emails.
          >
          > Advice other than "piss off you arrogant
          > intellectual" will be appreciated.
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > I had assumed that childish squabbling (a
          > quality I see in an equal number of adults, and so I
          > question my own use of "childish") among individuals
          > on this list would be minimal. Please...
          >
          > J. M.
          >
          > P.S. Are we not capable of using the ignore
          > functions in our mail programs when our unsubscribe
          > does not work within milliseconds?
          >
          > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
          > Sartre homepage: http://www.Sartre.org.uk/
          >
          > To unsubscribe, e-mail:
          > Sartre-unsubscribe@...
          >
          > <A
          >
          HREF="http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/external-search/?keyword=Jean-Paul+Sartre&tag=donaldrobertson">Click
          > here to purchase books by Jean-Paul Sartre -in
          > association with Amazon (US).</A>
          >
          >
          > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the
          > Yahoo! Terms of Service
          > <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> .
          >
          >
          >
          > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
          >
          >
          >
          > Sartre homepage: http://www.Sartre.org.uk/
          >
          > To unsubscribe, e-mail:
          > Sartre-unsubscribe@...
          >
          > <A
          >
          HREF="http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/external-search/?keyword=Jean-Paul+Sartre&tag=donaldrobertson">Click
          > here to purchase books by Jean-Paul Sartre -in
          > association with Amazon (US).</A>
          >
          >
          > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo!
          > Terms of Service.
          >
          >


          __________________________________________________
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          Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail.
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        • John Foster
          There is a lecture on the web about Sartre and God. Sartre said god could not exist because existence preceeds essence . For there to be a God there would
          Message 4 of 9 , Mar 21, 2001
            There is a lecture on the web about Sartre and God. Sartre said god could
            not exist because 'existence' preceeds 'essence'. For there to be a God
            there would be an essence prior to existence. I don't think much though was
            put into this. God does not exist prior to essence....so I don' think that
            Sartre put much thought into the existence of God.

            God is an animative - creative principle operative in the Universe.....If
            something is to preceed something else, then it must do so in time or in
            logic. God is both outside time, and critical thinking. Many philosophical
            terms like infinity, and whole, lack any adequate definition. Read book six,
            Aristotle, Ethics, regarding intuition, contemplation of the invariable.

            http://www.pvspade.com/Sartre/pdf/sartre2.pdf

            Or it is the other lecture.

            addios

            john foster





            ----- Original Message -----
            From: Hedayat Alavitabar <alavitabar@...>
            To: <Sartre@yahoogroups.com>
            Sent: Wednesday, March 21, 2001 10:45 AM
            Subject: Re: [Sartre] civility anyone?


            > Dear friends,
            >
            > I'm a PhD student working on my thesis under the title
            > of "Sartre and Religion". I appreciate it if you let
            > me know some resources(books and articles)related to
            > this topic.
            >
            > Best wishes
            >
            > --- Kitten <gravityandlight@...> wrote:
            > > Re: [Sartre] civility anyone?Step 1. Go to the
            > > yahoo groups website. groups.yahoo.com
            > > Step 2. Enter your "Yahoo! ID" and password
            > > Step 3. Click "Sign in"
            > > Step 4. Look to the left. You will see a list of
            > > your groups.
            > > Step 5. Click "Sartre"
            > > Step 6. When the next page opens, at the right
            > > there is an "Unsubscribe" link.
            > > Step 7. CLICK IT.
            > > Step 8. Scroll to the bottom of the next page that
            > > opens and click Unsubscribe again.
            > >
            > >
            > > Try *not* leaving your unsubscription up to a
            > > moderator on a group that is UNMODERATED!!!! That
            > > means, boys and girls, that your "remove" e-mails
            > > are useless because there is no one with the
            > > authority to remove you. Now if you'll excuse me, I
            > > have to go to work. I don't expect people to cover
            > > my responsibilities for me.
            > >
            > > J.M.
            > > ----- Original Message -----
            > > From: elephant
            > > To: Sartre@yahoogroups.com
            > > Sent: Tuesday, March 20, 2001 5:12 PM
            > > Subject: Re: [Sartre] civility anyone?
            > >
            > >
            > > Oh and another thing - It's now three weeks
            > > since I sent the first two unsubsribe emails.
            > >
            > > Advice other than "piss off you arrogant
            > > intellectual" will be appreciated.
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > > I had assumed that childish squabbling (a
            > > quality I see in an equal number of adults, and so I
            > > question my own use of "childish") among individuals
            > > on this list would be minimal. Please...
            > >
            > > J. M.
            > >
            > > P.S. Are we not capable of using the ignore
            > > functions in our mail programs when our unsubscribe
            > > does not work within milliseconds?
            > >
            > > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
            > > Sartre homepage: http://www.Sartre.org.uk/
            > >
            > > To unsubscribe, e-mail:
            > > Sartre-unsubscribe@...
            > >
            > > <A
            > >
            >
            HREF="http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/external-search/?keyword=Jean-Paul+S
            artre&tag=donaldrobertson">Click
            > > here to purchase books by Jean-Paul Sartre -in
            > > association with Amazon (US).</A>
            > >
            > >
            > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the
            > > Yahoo! Terms of Service
            > > <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> .
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > > Sartre homepage: http://www.Sartre.org.uk/
            > >
            > > To unsubscribe, e-mail:
            > > Sartre-unsubscribe@...
            > >
            > > <A
            > >
            >
            HREF="http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/external-search/?keyword=Jean-Paul+S
            artre&tag=donaldrobertson">Click
            > > here to purchase books by Jean-Paul Sartre -in
            > > association with Amazon (US).</A>
            > >
            > >
            > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo!
            > > Terms of Service.
            > >
            > >
            >
            >
            > __________________________________________________
            > Do You Yahoo!?
            > Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail.
            > http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/
            >
            >
            > Sartre homepage: http://www.Sartre.org.uk/
            >
            > To unsubscribe, e-mail: Sartre-unsubscribe@...
            >
            > <A
            HREF="http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/external-search/?keyword=Jean-Paul+S
            artre&tag=donaldrobertson">Click here to purchase books by Jean-Paul
            Sartre -in association with Amazon (US).</A>
            >
            >
            > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
            >
            >
          • Christopher Bobo
            ... not exist because existence preceeds essence . For there to be a God there would be an essence prior to existence. I don t think much though was put
            Message 5 of 9 , Mar 21, 2001
              >>There is a lecture on the web about Sartre and God. Sartre said god could
              not exist because 'existence' preceeds 'essence'. For there to be a God
              there would be an essence prior to existence. I don't think much though was
              put into this. God does not exist prior to essence....so I don' think that
              Sartre put much thought into the existence of God.<<
               
              We discussed this very subject here on this list.  Sartre actually did not use that argument to conclude that God does not exist but only that if God exists then he is more like human beings.  The precedence of existence over essence can no more disprove the existence of God than it can disprove the existence of human beings, whose existence also preceeds their essence.

              ----- Original Message -----
              From: John Foster
              Sent: Wednesday, March 21, 2001 11:22 AM
              To: Sartre@yahoogroups.com
              Subject: Re: [Sartre] civility anyone?

              There is a lecture on the web about Sartre and God. Sartre said god could
              not exist because 'existence' preceeds 'essence'. For there to be a God
              there would be an essence prior to existence. I don't think much though was
              put into this. God does not exist prior to essence....so I don' think that
              Sartre put much thought into the existence of God.

              God is an animative - creative principle operative in the Universe.....If
              something is to preceed something else, then it must do so in time or in
              logic. God is both outside time, and critical thinking. Many philosophical
              terms like infinity, and whole, lack any adequate definition. Read book six,
              Aristotle, Ethics, regarding intuition, contemplation of the invariable.

              http://www.pvspade.com/Sartre/pdf/sartre2.pdf

              Or it is the other lecture.

              addios

              john foster





              ----- Original Message -----
              From: Hedayat Alavitabar <alavitabar@...>
              To: <Sartre@yahoogroups.com>
              Sent: Wednesday, March 21, 2001 10:45 AM
              Subject: Re: [Sartre] civility anyone?


              > Dear friends,
              >
              > I'm a PhD student working on my thesis under the title
              > of "Sartre and Religion". I appreciate it if you let
              > me know some resources(books and articles)related to
              > this topic.
              >
              > Best wishes
              >
              > --- Kitten <gravityandlight@...> wrote:
              > > Re: [Sartre] civility anyone?Step 1.  Go to the
              > > yahoo groups website.  groups.yahoo.com
              > > Step 2.  Enter your "Yahoo! ID" and password
              > > Step 3.  Click "Sign in"
              > > Step 4.  Look to the left.  You will see a list of
              > > your groups.
              > > Step 5.  Click "Sartre"
              > > Step 6.  When the next page opens, at the right
              > > there is an "Unsubscribe" link.
              > > Step 7.  CLICK IT.
              > > Step 8.  Scroll to the bottom of the next page that
              > > opens and click Unsubscribe again.
              > >
              > >
              > > Try *not* leaving your unsubscription up to a
              > > moderator on a group that is UNMODERATED!!!!  That
              > > means, boys and girls, that your "remove" e-mails
              > > are useless because there is no one with the
              > > authority to remove you.  Now if you'll excuse me, I
              > > have to go to work.   I don't expect people to cover
              > > my responsibilities for me.
              > >
              > > J.M.
              > >   ----- Original Message -----
              > >   From: elephant
              > >   To: Sartre@yahoogroups.com
              > >   Sent: Tuesday, March 20, 2001 5:12 PM
              > >   Subject: Re: [Sartre] civility anyone?
              > >
              > >
              > >     Oh and another thing - It's now three weeks
              > > since I sent the first two unsubsribe emails.
              > >
              > >     Advice other than "piss off you arrogant
              > > intellectual" will be appreciated.
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >     I had assumed that childish squabbling (a
              > > quality I see in an equal number of adults, and so I
              > > question my own use of "childish") among individuals
              > > on this list would be minimal.  Please...
              > >
              > >     J. M.
              > >
              > >     P.S. Are we not capable of using the ignore
              > > functions in our mail programs when our unsubscribe
              > > does not work within milliseconds?
              > >
              > >     Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
              > >     Sartre homepage: http://www.Sartre.org.uk/
              > >
              > >     To unsubscribe, e-mail:
              > > Sartre-unsubscribe@...
              > >
              > >     <A
              > >
              >
              HREF="http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/external-search/?keyword=Jean-Paul+S
              artre&tag=donaldrobertson">Click
              > > here to purchase books by Jean-Paul Sartre -in
              > > association with Amazon (US).</A>
              > >
              > >
              > >     Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the
              > > Yahoo! Terms of Service
              > > <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> .
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >         Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >   Sartre homepage: http://www.Sartre.org.uk/
              > >
              > >   To unsubscribe, e-mail:
              > > Sartre-unsubscribe@...
              > >
              > >   <A
              > >
              >
              HREF="http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/external-search/?keyword=Jean-Paul+S
              artre&tag=donaldrobertson">Click
              > > here to purchase books by Jean-Paul Sartre -in
              > > association with Amazon (US).</A>
              > >
              > >
              > >   Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo!
              > > Terms of Service.
              > >
              > >
              >
              >
              > __________________________________________________
              > Do You Yahoo!?
              > Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail.
              > http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/
              >
              >
              > Sartre homepage: http://www.Sartre.org.uk/
              >
              > To unsubscribe, e-mail: Sartre-unsubscribe@...
              >
              > <A
              HREF="http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/external-search/?keyword=Jean-Paul+S
              artre&tag=donaldrobertson">Click here to purchase books by Jean-Paul
              Sartre -in association with Amazon (US).</A>
              >
              >
              > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
              >
              >


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            • Tommy Beavitt
              ... Sorry for inadvertantly giving the impression that this group is unmoderated. I had merely neglected to read all the messages for a few days and wasn t
              Message 6 of 9 , Mar 21, 2001
                At 10:45 am -0800 21/3/01, Hedayat Alavitabar wrote:
                > > Try *not* leaving your unsubscription up to a
                > > moderator on a group that is UNMODERATED!!!!

                Sorry for inadvertantly giving the impression that this group is
                unmoderated. I had merely neglected to read all the messages for a
                few days and wasn't aware of Elephant's predicament and the resultant
                annoyances until just now.

                I did however receive an email into my main inbox stating that
                Elephant had unsubscribed so, since I have not received another one
                saying he has resubscribed I am assuming he has worked out how to do
                it himself.

                While I am here, can I repeat my request to list members to trim
                quoted messages. There are a few in this last batch where not only
                entire messages are quoted but there are quotations of quotations
                making the emails unnecessarily large.

                Thanks, and keep it coming!

                Tommy Beavitt
                list moderator
                --
                http://www.scoraig.com
              • John Foster
                ... From: Christopher Bobo To: Sartre_yahoogr Sent: Wednesday, March 21, 2001 1:40 PM Subject: Re: [Sartre] civility anyone? ... not exist because existence
                Message 7 of 9 , Mar 21, 2001
                   
                  ----- Original Message -----
                  Sent: Wednesday, March 21, 2001 1:40 PM
                  Subject: Re: [Sartre] civility anyone?

                  >>There is a lecture on the web about Sartre and God. Sartre said god could
                  not exist because 'existence' preceeds 'essence'. For there to be a God
                  there would be an essence prior to existence. I don't think much though was
                  put into this. God does not exist prior to essence....so I don' think that
                  Sartre put much thought into the existence of God.<<
                   
                  We discussed this very subject here on this list.  Sartre actually did not use that argument to conclude that God does not exist but only that if God exists then he is more like human beings.  The precedence of existence over essence can no more disprove the existence of God than it can disprove the existence of human beings, whose existence also preceeds their essence.
                   
                   
                  Hi Chris:
                   
                  Only man has no essence prior to existence. Since if God was God, then God's essence would precede (logical and temporally) because creation is patterned after a model (this is stated in Timaeus as well as in Genesis). Therefore the consequence for Sartre was that God is 'man's project'. This I can agree on with you.....If man is the only creature that has existence prior to having an essence, then Man is to make God....this means that God is an artifact, since man cannot make creation; therefore the creator is an artifact of Man...
                   
                  This is rather funny but this is what happens when a thinker thinks only using logic, reason, and materialism as a founding of the founded.
                   
                  God is an animative and creative principle <arkhe>operating in the universe....there is no way that science can objectify some of these terms: infinite, whole, God, etc.; they are there as 'invariable' intellectual entities which are contemplated. If these objects, as mental objects, can be defined, then they can only be defined 'subjectively' as feeling or value (value is an intermediary of emotion and logic, or emotion and cognition).
                   
                  Categorial intuition is a modern way to describe how these entities appear to consciousness.
                   
                  Sartre confuses apparently the 'demiurgous' with God, Shiva and Shakti, or the Elohim, with God. These environmental factors that cause nature to be what she is, as dynamismo, as force, are the 'artifacts' or the 'operations' of moving nature which is 'variable' and 'changing' and so on. Each of the phenomenon in nature is a 'hypothesis invoking time, space, and so on and so forth'.....thus God is a hypothesis 'par excellence' if there are operative  in nature the elohim, pscyhic states (enties) of shiva and shakti.
                   
                  addios
                   
                  john foster
                   

                   

                  ----- Original Message -----
                  From: John Foster
                  Sent: Wednesday, March 21, 2001 11:22 AM
                  To: Sartre@yahoogroups.com
                  Subject: Re: [Sartre] civility anyone?

                  There is a lecture on the web about Sartre and God. Sartre said god could
                  not exist because 'existence' preceeds 'essence'. For there to be a God
                  there would be an essence prior to existence. I don't think much though was
                  put into this. God does not exist prior to essence....so I don' think that
                  Sartre put much thought into the existence of God.

                  God is an animative - creative principle operative in the Universe.....If
                  something is to preceed something else, then it must do so in time or in
                  logic. God is both outside time, and critical thinking. Many philosophical
                  terms like infinity, and whole, lack any adequate definition. Read book six,
                  Aristotle, Ethics, regarding intuition, contemplation of the invariable.

                  http://www.pvspade.com/Sartre/pdf/sartre2.pdf

                  Or it is the other lecture.

                  addios

                  john foster





                  ----- Original Message -----
                  From: Hedayat Alavitabar <alavitabar@...>
                  To: <Sartre@yahoogroups.com>
                  Sent: Wednesday, March 21, 2001 10:45 AM
                  Subject: Re: [Sartre] civility anyone?


                  > Dear friends,
                  >
                  > I'm a PhD student working on my thesis under the title
                  > of "Sartre and Religion". I appreciate it if you let
                  > me know some resources(books and articles)related to
                  > this topic.
                  >
                  > Best wishes
                  >
                  > --- Kitten <gravityandlight@...> wrote:
                  > > Re: [Sartre] civility anyone?Step 1.  Go to the
                  > > yahoo groups website.  groups.yahoo.com
                  > > Step 2.  Enter your "Yahoo! ID" and password
                  > > Step 3.  Click "Sign in"
                  > > Step 4.  Look to the left.  You will see a list of
                  > > your groups.
                  > > Step 5.  Click "Sartre"
                  > > Step 6.  When the next page opens, at the right
                  > > there is an "Unsubscribe" link.
                  > > Step 7.  CLICK IT.
                  > > Step 8.  Scroll to the bottom of the next page that
                  > > opens and click Unsubscribe again.
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > Try *not* leaving your unsubscription up to a
                  > > moderator on a group that is UNMODERATED!!!!  That
                  > > means, boys and girls, that your "remove" e-mails
                  > > are useless because there is no one with the
                  > > authority to remove you.  Now if you'll excuse me, I
                  > > have to go to work.   I don't expect people to cover
                  > > my responsibilities for me.
                  > >
                  > > J.M.
                  > >   ----- Original Message -----
                  > >   From: elephant
                  > >   To: Sartre@yahoogroups.com
                  > >   Sent: Tuesday, March 20, 2001 5:12 PM
                  > >   Subject: Re: [Sartre] civility anyone?
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >     Oh and another thing - It's now three weeks
                  > > since I sent the first two unsubsribe emails.
                  > >
                  > >     Advice other than "piss off you arrogant
                  > > intellectual" will be appreciated.
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >     I had assumed that childish squabbling (a
                  > > quality I see in an equal number of adults, and so I
                  > > question my own use of "childish") among individuals
                  > > on this list would be minimal.  Please...
                  > >
                  > >     J. M.
                  > >
                  > >     P.S. Are we not capable of using the ignore
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                • Glenn Scheper
                  ... I ve only begun with Sartre, but have some independent experiences on that topic. I ll just start right in... When the correct referents are supplied, the
                  Message 8 of 9 , Mar 26, 2001
                    > Sartre actually did not use that argument to conclude
                    > that God does not exist but only that if God exists
                    > then he is more like human beings.

                    I've only begun with Sartre, but have some independent
                    experiences on that topic. I'll just start right in...

                    When the correct referents are supplied, the god being(s)
                    which have been acquainted to us by all religions, myths
                    and folklore actually refer to human beings, who differ
                    according to gender, environmental factors, and especially
                    their various stages and combinations of development in
                    a small number of self-reflexive sacral-erotic fetishes.
                    Certain of these types dominate all religious exposition.

                    I have had a very fortuitous combination of experiences,
                    weathering the mental illness several years that prevents
                    most of us from expositing my "hypermasculine" discourse.

                    After all such is cleared away (and I wish somebody would
                    help!) the scriptures don't have much left to say about
                    cosmogeny, only their self-interested views on theogony.

                    My whole viewpoint is contained in one longish web essay, an
                    html file placed in a zip file to avoid censorship concerns:
                    http://www.hughes.net/~scheper/theword.zip
                    The Word of God; The Production of Christ.

                    It is my ever ongoing project. Today, it starts out like this:

                    Autofe------ and autocu--------- are a dominant cultural icon, and
                    sufficient to explain nearly all religio-mythic stories of divine
                    distinction and transcendence: discovery, fall, naming, election,
                    eating god, death, metamorphosis, repentence, translation, rebirth,
                    god birth, indwelling, sacredness, god act.

                    The dominant cultural icon is tabooed. However, once demonstrated,
                    it is salient, like Edgar Allan Poe's purloined letter. This icon
                    is so pervasive, that it cannot help but be recognized by persons
                    who stumble upon it, activating this cultural booby-trap, falling
                    like Alice into Lewis Carroll's wonderland.

                    The domain surrounding this icon is so severely repressed from our
                    consciousness awareness, that it parades before us, mocking us in
                    Carl Jung's collective unconscious. Religion exceedingly glorifies
                    it in the occult, but poisons the very apple lest anyone report it.

                    It inspired Franz Kafka to write the Metamorphosis, for initially
                    all experiencers of this condition are ostracized with a universal
                    unconditional negative regard (by contrast to Carl Roger's phrase,
                    unconditional positive regard (love), his necessary condition for
                    a child to thrive. It is the fall, the unforgivable sin.

                    Those experiencers who survive madness, not as Shakespeare shewed
                    in Hamlet, but walking the tightrope across nihilism to become an
                    over-man, find new authenticity in this domain, as did Nietzsche.

                    I must put aside embarrassment to tell it, as said William Blake:
                    The stern
                    Bard ceas'd, asham'd of his own song; enrag'd he swung
                    His harp aloft sounding, then dash'd its shining frame against
                    A ruin'd pillar in glitt'ring fragments; silent he turn'd away.

                    Yet tell it I must, for that is the manifest destiny of this lamb.

                    Yours truly,
                    Glenn Scheper
                    scheper@...
                    http://www.hughes.net/~scheper/
                    Copyleft(!) Forward freely.
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