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Re: [Sartre] fundamental questions

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  • Randy Zeitman
    ... What is. and What exists. is the same to me. You? You say where am I going with this but I reply that we re already there. What is? ( What is has to
    Message 1 of 37 , Dec 4, 2000
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      >As to your "What is", I would say "What is what"? or "What is history,
      >or what is social science," . I am not sure where you are going with
      >this except maybe "What exists"?

      "What is." and "What exists." is the same to me. You?

      You say where am I going with this but I reply that we're already
      there. What is? ("What is" has to preceed "what is rain", right?).

      "It all depends what "is" is.'
      - Bill "Impeach Me, See if I Care" Clinton
      --

      "I've gotten so out of shape sittin' at the computer all day that I
      get out of breath when I have to reach for the percent key!" -
      Zeitman

      "Whatever is begun in anger ends in shame. -- Ben Franklin"
    • Sandra Ann Shaw
      Thanks Greg for this information. I don t know if it was you or not, but I told someone that I was going to finish Levi-Strauss s last chapter on Sartre from
      Message 37 of 37 , Dec 8, 2000
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        Thanks Greg for this information. I don't know if it was
        you or not, but I told someone that I was going to
        finish Levi-Strauss's last chapter on Sartre from his
        "The Savage Mind" book and do a small synopsis.
        I haven't got to it yet. So far, what I've read seems
        similar's to Poster's account though. I will save your post
        and do a comparison with my summary after I finish reading.
        Hopefully, on Monday I will be finished. I am interested in
        discussing this further and, again, thanks!

        Sandra

        > Sandra wrote, citing Levi-Strauss: "Something about Sartre's account
        > was good for
        > > the French but it caused the West harm.
        > >
        > > "Because it [Sartre's ideas] has given people the idea that society
        > is to
        > > be ruled by abstract thought, when instead it is formed of habits
        > > and customs"
        >
        > Greg: Something about Levi-Strauss's criticism of Sartre's
        > critique sounded familiar to me -- a misplaced criticism that Sartre
        > lapsed into idealism in his later work even while he was trying to
        > integrate his existenitialism with Marx's dialectic. According to
        > Mark Poster (Sartre's Marxism) Sartre argued that "human beings are
        > set in specific situations (objectivity), which they interpret in
        > given ways and act within and upon (subjectivity), which in turn
        > places them in new specific situations (objectivity)." Poster goes
        > on
        > to say (p.50-51) "The danger in Sartre's restoration of the
        > subject-object dialectic [when Marxism had only been dealing with the
        > object side of the dialectic] lay in a return to Hegelian idealism in
        > which the object lost its power and the dialectic was reduced to pure
        > subjectivity. Searching for an active subject, the theorist might
        > eliminate objectivity altogether [such as had befallen Lukacs] ...
        > Sartre's difficult task was to develop categories which would
        > minimise
        > the tendency in marxism to overlook one side of the dialectic. The
        > formula used by Sartre of human beings and things mediating each
        > other
        > would not satisfy everyone. Many critics accused him of returning
        > not
        > to Hegel's idealim but to Descartes' dualism. These commentators saw
        > in the Critique an ontology of mind and matter, the cartesian res
        > cogitans and res extensa...Against these detractors it must be
        > maintained that the dualism of human beings and things serves in the
        > Critique as a support for the subject-object dialectic ... the
        > emphais
        > in duality of human beings and things falls on their mediation, not
        > on
        > their opposition."
        >
        > Greg
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > --- In Sartre@egroups.com, Sandra Ann Shaw <sas@m...> wrote:
        > > One person who doesn't like Sartre is Claude-Levi Strauss
        > > (anthropologist).
        > > I was reading a little of "Conversations with Claude-Levi Strauss"
        > > last night and apparently the problem he had with Sartre
        > > had to do with Sartre's [wrong] interpretation of the French
        > > Revolution. Something about Sartre's account was good for
        > > the French but it caused the West harm.
        > >
        > > "Because it has given people the idea that society is to
        > > be ruled by abstract thought, when instead it is formed of habits
        > > and customs; by crushing thse in the mortar of
        > > reason, one pulverizes ways of life founded on a long tradition,
        > > reducing individuals to the state of interchangeable and
        > > anonymous atoms. True freedom can be cased only on a concrete
        > foundation and is made up of a balance among small adherences, little
        > solidarities.
        > > Pitted against these are theoretical ideas proclaimed as rational.
        > When they
        > > have achieved their goals, there is nothing left for them but to
        > destroy each
        > > other. Today [1988 interview] we are observing the result." (p. 118)
        > >
        > > Claude Levi-Strauss claims that Sartre ``builds up an
        > > abstract outline of history so that for the humanity of
        > > today the French Revolution can play the role of a myth." (p. 118)
        > >
        > > Anyway, most of his complaints with Sartre are in "The Savage
        > > Mind" - the last chapter. I realize that the interview above
        > > has some 'holes' in it so I will read this chapter later on
        > > and try to sort the details out.
        > >
        > > The reason it comes to mind is because of your discussion.
        > > Whatever one believes philosophy is, don't you think it
        > > would be good to get the history and details right, especially
        > > if Levi-Strauss is right about Sartre?
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > > Sandra
        > >
        > > > >At 11:58 pm -0800 4/12/00, Christopher Bobo wrote:
        > > > >Isn't all philosophy interpretive rather than discriptive? If
        > you
        > > > >want a mere discription of what "man", the "universe" or
        > "yourself"
        > > > >are, you would do better to ask anthropology, astronomy or
        > > > >pscychology. Philosophy offers interpretations.
        > > >
        > > > Hi Christopher,
        > > >
        > > > Thanks for your point. Perhaps you are right in saying that
        > > > philosophy is essentially interpretative. However, for a
        > satisfactory
        > > > answer to the questions, what am I? what is man? and what is the
        > > > universe? I wouldn't be turning to the special sciences you
        > mention.
        > > > Why not? Because all three of them are doctrinal in their
        > positions
        > > > on my questions, they assert that nature is deterministic. And
        > are
        > > > therefore content with cause-and-effect explanations which don't
        > > > fully answer my questions.
        > > >
        > > > Tommy
        > > >
        > > >
        > > > Sartre homepage: http://www.Sartre.org.uk/
        > > >
        > > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: Sartre-unsubscribe@e...
        > > >
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        > > >
        > > >
        >
        >
        >
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