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Re: [Sartre] I NEED SOME SERIOUS HELP!!

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  • chris and louise bennett
    I would expect that his explanation of the attack situation might be this: You allowed yourself to be victimized because you ignored the fact that there are
    Message 1 of 10 , Dec 1, 2000
      I would expect that his explanation of the attack situation might be this:
      You allowed yourself to be victimized because you ignored the fact that there are crazed humans who have no responsibility for their actions.  You ignored your reality because you were focused on the perception that society that is expected to insure certain morals.  In other words you lost control of your reality due to not contemplating reality for all humans.  By avoidance of the situation you make your reality your doing.  Its not a point for dread, it should be a point of happiness by knowing that you can obtain happiness without having to rely on society’s rules that cannot prevent such harm.
      Sartre’s notion of free choice means that we made the choice to live, again, in a society that does not protect us from our own ignorance.

      Not to mean that ignorance is bad, but that it’s just not as good as a virtuous life of realizing how important your reality is.

      Good luck, let me know what happens.
      Chris
      Rachel wrote:

      I'm in an ethics class and here's the question I have to answer. I am
      not "getting" this whole philosophy of Sartre's and am having a
      difficult time answering the question. Any input would be much
      appreciated! Thanks

      According to Sartre, "whatever happens to me is mine." Because of
      this, Sartre does not believe that we can dismiss our responsibility
      for what happens to us by hiding behind any type of excuse. In other
      words, if I were walking down the street and was attacked by a crazed
      person, I must accept responsibility for the attack. It is not the
      crazed person's attack; it is the crazed person's attack upon me, and
      I must therefore accept responsibility for it. To try and avoid my
      responsibility for this by saying that his attack was inhumane
      or "non-human" is to attempt to hide from my absolute responsibility
      for my world that I create.
      Sartre's argument almost sound ludicrous at this point. How can I
      accept responsibility for the attack of someone whose actions lie
      outside the realm of my control? Remember that Sartre believes that
      we are the authors, or creators, or our worlds. Our world is the way
      it is because we have created it. If crazed people are running around
      attacking people in our world, then if we don't like it, we have the
      responsibility of creating a world in which this is not the case.
      Wow! That is indeed an "overwhelming" responsibility! I don't know
      about you, but if Sartre is right, then I do indeed feel a sense of
      dread causing me to feel sick to my stomach.
      Sartre further states that if our world has crazed people in it that
      are attacking and molesting others, then it is not something that
      simply happens, but it is a result of our free choice. It is the
      result of our "freedom"! What do you think Sartre means by this? How
      does this make you feel? Do you like this type of freedom? Explain.

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    • Randy Zeitman
      ... Yes, because it s commonly misunderstood. You re not responsible for the crazed person s choices...you re responsible for being where you were when the
      Message 2 of 10 , Dec 1, 2000
        >>According to Sartre, "whatever happens to me is mine." Because of
        >>this, Sartre does not believe that we can dismiss our responsibility
        >>for what happens to us by hiding behind any type of excuse. In other
        >>words, if I were walking down the street and was attacked by a crazed
        >>person, I must accept responsibility for the attack. It is not the
        >>crazed person's attack; it is the crazed person's attack upon me, and
        >>I must therefore accept responsibility for it. To try and avoid my
        >>responsibility for this by saying that his attack was inhumane
        >>or "non-human" is to attempt to hide from my absolute responsibility
        >>for my world that I create.
        >>Sartre's argument almost sound ludicrous at this point.

        Yes, because it's commonly misunderstood.

        You're not responsible for the crazed person's choices...you're
        responsible for being where you were when the event happened to you.

        I don't think Sartre ever said or implied that you are not
        accountable for your well-being or that you have no right to make
        other choices in any situation you're in (such as attack, calling
        police, etc). As you properly said above, Sartre says 'you should
        not hide from *your responsibility* on account of other's
        actions'...he did not say you should stop being responsible for
        yourself.

        >> How can I
        >>accept responsibility for the attack of someone whose actions lie
        >>outside the realm of my control?

        Accepting responsibility means for the choice you made to be
        there...it doesn't mean the other parties aren't responsible for
        their choices as well. (and it doesn't mean you can no longer make
        choices about the situation....)

        >>Remember that Sartre believes that
        >>we are the authors, or creators, or our worlds. Our world is the way
        >>it is because we have created it. If crazed people are running around
        >>attacking people in our world, then if we don't like it, we have the
        >>responsibility of creating a world in which this is not the case.

        Of course (to the extent that we can make choices....). For example,
        suppose murderers get out on parole early and kill again...aren't we
        all responsible for the laws we have that allow that to happen?...I
        should think so.

        >>Wow! That is indeed an "overwhelming" responsibility!

        Sure is...cause what you choose for yourself you chose for the world.

        >>I don't know
        >>about you, but if Sartre is right, then I do indeed feel a sense of
        >>dread causing me to feel sick to my stomach.

        "Angst" is the word for existential anguish....the burden of being.

        >>Sartre further states that if our world has crazed people in it that
        >>are attacking and molesting others, then it is not something that
        >>simply happens, but it is a result of our free choice. It is the
        >>result of our "freedom"! What do you think Sartre means by this? How
        >>does this make you feel? Do you like this type of freedom? Explain.

        Well of course...couldn't we choose to kill people, one hypothetical
        example, after they commit any crime?

        Sartre doesn't say what the best choices are...he's simply saying
        things don't just happen for no reason and the world we have is the
        'sum of the choices' of everyone who participates.

        --

        "I've gotten so out of shape sittin' at the computer all day that I
        get out of breath when I have to reach for the percent key!" -
        Zeitman

        "Whatever is begun in anger ends in shame. -- Ben Franklin"
      • awhit@sprynet.com
        I can t believe we re going through this again. But to clarify once more: Sartre didn t say that we are responsible for whatever happens to us -- in fact,
        Message 3 of 10 , Dec 2, 2000
          I can't believe we're going through this again. But to clarify once
          more: Sartre didn't say that we are responsible for whatever happens
          to us -- in fact, part of "hell is other people" is that we can't
          control what happens to us from "the other." To re-post my argument
          from the last time we covered this ground:

          It's important to emphasize and clarify that Sartre did
          not say that we are responsible for what happens to us, no matter
          what
          that thing is. I agree with you that we are, certainly, responsible
          for the choices we make, but would add that only in so far as those
          choices have a bearing on what happens to us can we be responsible
          for
          them. For example, a poor Polish Jew whose nation was suddenly and
          unexpectedly conquered by the Germans and had no means of escape
          wasn't responsible for the fact that Nazis placed him or her in a
          concentration camp. Now a rich German Jew who persisted in ignoring
          the obviously threatening nature of Nazism in the course of the
          1930's, for reasons of apathy, cynicism, pursuing a philosophy of
          "just living life one day at a time," or whatever, and who didn't
          resist or take the opportunity (if she or he had one) to escape would
          bear some responsibility, and I emphasize strongly, only some
          responsibility (by no means all, primary responsibility falling on
          the
          many Germans who either actively followed, or at least didn't resist,
          Nazism) for their predicament due to the choices they made.



          --- In Sartre@egroups.com, wrote:
          > >>According to Sartre, "whatever happens to me is mine." Because of
          > >>this, Sartre does not believe that we can dismiss our
          responsibility
          > >>for what happens to us by hiding behind any type of excuse. In
          other
          > >>words, if I were walking down the street and was attacked by a
          crazed
          > >>person, I must accept responsibility for the attack. It is not the
          > >>crazed person's attack; it is the crazed person's attack upon me,
          and
          > >>I must therefore accept responsibility for it. To try and avoid my
          > >>responsibility for this by saying that his attack was inhumane
          > >>or "non-human" is to attempt to hide from my absolute
          responsibility
          > >>for my world that I create.
          > >>Sartre's argument almost sound ludicrous at this point.
          >
          > Yes, because it's commonly misunderstood.
          >
          > You're not responsible for the crazed person's choices...you're
          > responsible for being where you were when the event happened to you.
          >
          > I don't think Sartre ever said or implied that you are not
          > accountable for your well-being or that you have no right to make
          > other choices in any situation you're in (such as attack, calling
          > police, etc). As you properly said above, Sartre says 'you should
          > not hide from *your responsibility* on account of other's
          > actions'...he did not say you should stop being responsible for
          > yourself.
          >
          > >> How can I
          > >>accept responsibility for the attack of someone whose actions lie
          > >>outside the realm of my control?
          >
          > Accepting responsibility means for the choice you made to be
          > there...it doesn't mean the other parties aren't responsible for
          > their choices as well. (and it doesn't mean you can no longer make
          > choices about the situation....)
          >
          > >>Remember that Sartre believes that
          > >>we are the authors, or creators, or our worlds. Our world is the
          way
          > >>it is because we have created it. If crazed people are running
          around
          > >>attacking people in our world, then if we don't like it, we have
          the
          > >>responsibility of creating a world in which this is not the case.
          >
          > Of course (to the extent that we can make choices....). For
          example,
          > suppose murderers get out on parole early and kill again...aren't
          we
          > all responsible for the laws we have that allow that to happen?...I
          > should think so.
          >
          > >>Wow! That is indeed an "overwhelming" responsibility!
          >
          > Sure is...cause what you choose for yourself you chose for the
          world.
          >
          > >>I don't know
          > >>about you, but if Sartre is right, then I do indeed feel a sense
          of
          > >>dread causing me to feel sick to my stomach.
          >
          > "Angst" is the word for existential anguish....the burden of being.
          >
          > >>Sartre further states that if our world has crazed people in it
          that
          > >>are attacking and molesting others, then it is not something that
          > >>simply happens, but it is a result of our free choice. It is the
          > >>result of our "freedom"! What do you think Sartre means by this?
          How
          > >>does this make you feel? Do you like this type of freedom?
          Explain.
          >
          > Well of course...couldn't we choose to kill people, one
          hypothetical
          > example, after they commit any crime?
          >
          > Sartre doesn't say what the best choices are...he's simply saying
          > things don't just happen for no reason and the world we have is the
          > 'sum of the choices' of everyone who participates.
          >
          > --
          >
          > "I've gotten so out of shape sittin' at the computer all day that I
          > get out of breath when I have to reach for the percent key!" -
          > Zeitman
          >
          > "Whatever is begun in anger ends in shame. -- Ben Franklin"
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