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Re: Credibility and Disclosure

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  • Jack Sarfatti
    ARV refers to Alien Recovery Vehicle, i.e. extra terrestrial flying saucers (e.g. controlled anti-gravity dark energy on a short scale as one possible
    Message 1 of 3 , Nov 3, 2008
      "ARV" refers to Alien Recovery Vehicle, i.e. extra terrestrial "flying saucers"  (e.g. controlled anti-gravity dark energy on a short scale as one possible explanation)

      On Nov 2, 2008, at 11:34 PM, nonlethal2@... (Colonel John Alexander US Army ret) wrote:

      Mark

      At least this is a thoughtful response.  It sounds like we will have to agree to disagree.  Here's why.  It can be debated just how deep the cuts are going to be.  The real question is not whether there is a recession, but more likely a depression.  That has never occurred in the present global economy.  The point is the all of the major global finance structures are in disequilibrium, some more than others.  However, thanks to the wisdom (or lack thereof) of out financial institutions, we built a house of cards.  Last year 22 percent of the GDP came from financial sector.  That really meant they were selling paper to each other with no real value added.  We currently have a national debt at at least ten trillion dollars (I'd argue it's eleven) to be followed by a bubble that will reach sixty trillion (plus or minus a tad).  If that doesn't get our attention, the US public sector has another 45 trillion in outstanding debt, much of that is unsecured.  My point on finance is that for THEM to collect their ROI when they do go public, there must be a financial structure in place that can transfer the wealth to them.  I'd argue that to insure the existence/continuation of such a structure, THEY would want to be sure that POTUS and the USG will insure the system.  IMHO the CEOs (many of whom have been polled) strongly want to see McCain as President.

      I would also point out that the existence of multi-year multi-billion dollar contracts to weather a storm is inherently unreliable.  In fact, one of my major concerns for the military is that funding may not be available for essentials.  The potential problem that I envision is collapse of the tax base.  Capital gains will really be capital losses this year and for many years to come.  Falling real estate values mean lower taxes, not to mention the foreclosure rate leaving a significant number of homes and buildings that pay not taxes at all, and even become a burden.  That is not hypothetical, it is already happening.  The only question is where is the bottom. Contracts will be cut, not for ideological differences, but because the US Treasury won't have the funds for Congress to appropriate

      Energy is a monumental problem for the US.  Obviously we use a hugely disproportionate share and the emerging economies of China and India have voracious appetites.  Competition gets worse from here on out. To quote Tom Friedman, "later has come" and possibly gone.  Therefore exporting even more wealth to provide our energy needs is self-defeating.

      Also as noted, even if even announced the development of Unobtainium tomorrow, and we could guarantee that that it could get 1000 miles per pound (or pick your unit of choice) it would still take two to three decades to develop the infrastructure for distribution and use.  That suggests that THEY are already too late with disclosure.

      This ain't racist or about the "first Black President." My arguments are based on the self-preservation of any organization holding these cards.  Where I'm sure we must agree to disagree, is that I don't think THEY exist and have a working ARV.  If THEY do, then they should fear both charges of treason, or summary execution when the public finds out. If THEY are a hybrid organization as some have posited, then the civilian components can expect to be thrown under the bus.

      As for the super-wealthy, who clearly live by a different set of rules.  However, they only remain super-wealthy and powerful as long as the rest of society accepts their rules.  Over time there have been many super-wealthy, super-powerful who have fallen on hard times.  As an example, remember Louie Something and What's Her Name?

      Where we can agree to agree, are comments relative to Bob Shaheen.  

      John A


      -----Original Message-----
      From: Mark McCandlish <markmccandlish@...>

      Subject: Credibility and Disclosure

      Gordon,
      You Said:
       
      "There are numerous credible ex-U.S. military personel who are now on record with the more than competent illustrator and in depth UFO investigator Mark McCandlish and others claiming to have seen ARV silently hovering in various AFB classified SCIF hangers. There are a good half dozen still photos of ARV in flight over or near military flight test ranges Including Dugway & A-51."

       
      While I greatly respect Col. Alexander's POV and tremendous career, I disagree with his assertion that if a disclosure of ARV (or its technology) does not occur between now and Tuesday, it [therefore] does not exist.  The idea that "THEY", in seeking to maintain a foothold on the White House (and the tacit support of "Black Programs" that includes) would be compelled to "declassify/ for public release" the ARV is flawed, IMHO.  This presumes that not to do so would undermine their profits and market share.  This happily, is untrue.  Just today, I came across an article by Matthew Perrone, released through the Associated Press/Washington entitled, "Health care and defense poised to weather recession",  that outlines in clear detail how the very companies that I know to be in possession of the ARV technology, are already sitting on multi-year, multi-billion dollar contracts that run far into the future; well beyond the anticipated Obama Administration.  These companies are Boeing, Lockheed-Martin, Northrop, and General Electric.  They have no motivation to lay the ARV cards on the table over any feared "defense cutbacks" the Obama White House might propose.  Besides, (with a nod to your "macro-economic" view), the "first black POTUS" can hardly afford to cancel such contracts and be seen as the guy who cost hundreds of thousands of jobs for the sake of a political/philosophical viewpoint, when the public has overwhelmingly bought into the threat of terrorism since 9-11.
      In spite of Obama's "higher intent" this is the nature of the time in which we live... 
       

      ...


       
      Warm Regards To All,
      Mark McCandlish

    • Jack Sarfatti
      10-4  ... 10-4 On Nov 3, 2008, at 4:46 PM, lensman137@sbcglobal.net wrote: There s lot of If s here.  IF ARVs are real, and IF there is a deep black
      Message 2 of 3 , Nov 3, 2008
        10-4

      • apollinair@aol.com
        FTR: I was addressing only human interactions.?This commontary was based on the assumpt by many in the CT community that not only ARV is real, but that we (at
        Message 3 of 3 , Nov 4, 2008
          FTR: I was addressing only human interactions. This commontary was based on the assumpt by many in the CT community that not only ARV is real, but that we (at least some humans) have the knowledge to operate it and have been doing so for possibly several decades.  (That is a view I DO NOT share). 

          Obviously, ET could do whatever.  As for the T-word and availablility of an alternative technology, yes I do believe that withholding such capability at this time is treasonous.  Further, I do not believe that exposure of existence of ET would disturb public order.  I am sure that if we continue on our current path, at some point (and I'm not sure when that is) public order becomes even further unstable than it is now and then choatic. We need dramatic solutions - NOW.

          John A


          -----Original Message-----
          From: Jack Sarfatti <sarfatti@...>
          To: Sarfatti_Physics_Seminars <Sarfatti_Physics_Seminars@yahoogroups.com>
          Cc: SarfattiScienceSeminars@YahooGroups. com <SarfattiScienceSeminars@yahoogroups.com>
          Sent: Mon, 3 Nov 2008 5:00 pm
          Subject: Re: Credibility and Disclosure

          10-4


          On Nov 3, 2008, at 4:46 PM, lensman137@... wrote:

          There's lot of If's here.  IF ARVs are real, and IF there is a deep black Extra-Governmental Organization (EGO) charged with the continuing concealment and clandestine development of such non-terrestrial technology, then it makes no sense whatsoever for that EGO to ever disclose anything.  JA is correct in pointing out that both the political and military landscape is about to go through significant changes due to the economic realities of the collapsing debt based fiat currency system of present.  Whether or not that potential shortfall in funding will trickle down to the deepest and blackest realms, remains to be seen -- after all, there's always drug money!  But it's also quite possible that a number of the extraordinary vehicles that so many have seen flying around in Earth's skies, are entirely of terrestrial origin, with no recovered ET technology involved.  Never underestimate human genius.  Case in point, is the lag time between the development and deployment of such noteworthy technology as the SR-71 Blackbird and Stealth.  Look at the lengths the USG went to keep those now dated technologies secret.   Just because there's much anecdotal and other evidence of extraordinary flying technology being developed by major defense contractors and seen in and about military installations, doesn't mean that it's ET derived. And as far as ROI goes, unless it's a gradual seeding scenario as outlined by Corso and others, it doesn't seem plausible for THEM to expect any immediate monetary ROI.  All this would be purely for national (or terrestrial) strategic parity or superiority -- be that against a terrestrial threat, or non-terrestrial threat.  So the idea of any immanent disclosure seems remote. I don't know where JA gets the "fear both charges of treason, or summary execution when the public finds out" though.  Just because a technology has the potential of eliminating our dependence on diminishing and toxic primitive fuel bases doesn't mean that it should be released to the general public.

          Furthermore, one could easily make the case that non-disclosure of the reality of ET and their technology is essential to the preservation of public order. IMHO, I think JA nailed it when he brought up the issue of THEM being purely human, or a human/ET hybrid liaison.   And as far as the "civilian components," which I take it JA means as humans, being "thrown under the bus," you could argue that this has already happened, in leu of the widespread and intrusive nature of the human abduction syndrome, which I think makes a strong case that THEY are indeed a human/hybrid co-op.  When all is said and done though, I think real disclosure will only come when the ETs decide that it should come.  And I don't think that will be through banner headlines or announcements on CNN, MSNBC, or Fox.  It will be when THEY unequivocally reveal themselves for ALL to see.

          On Nov 3, 2008, at 3:54 AM, Jack Sarfatti wrote:

          "ARV" refers to Alien Recovery Vehicle, i.e. extra terrestrial "flying saucers"  (e.g. controlled anti-gravity dark energy on a short scale as one possible explanation)

          On Nov 2, 2008, at 11:34 PM, nonlethal2@... (Colonel John Alexander US Army ret) wrote:

          Mark

          At least this is a thoughtful response.  It sounds like we will have to agree to disagree.  Here's why.  It can be debated just how deep the cuts are going to be.  The real question is not whether there is a recession, but more likely a depression.  That has never occurred in the present global economy.  The point is the all of the major global finance structures are in disequilibrium, some more than others.  However, thanks to the wisdom (or lack thereof) of out financial institutions, we built a house of cards.  Last year 22 percent of the GDP came from financial sector.  That really meant they were selling paper to each other with no real value added.  We currently have a national debt at at least ten trillion dollars (I'd argue it's eleven) to be followed by a bubble that will reach sixty trillion (plus or minus a tad).  If that doesn't get our attention, the US public sector has another 45 trillion in outstanding debt, much of that is unsecured.  My point on finance is that for THEM to collect their ROI when they do go public, there must be a financial structure in place that can transfer the wealth to them.  I'd argue that to insure the existence/continuation of such a structure, THEY would want to be sure that POTUS and the USG will insure the system.  IMHO the CEOs (many of whom have been polled) strongly want to see McCain as President.

          I would also point out that the existence of multi-year multi-billion dollar contracts to weather a storm is inherently unreliable.  In fact, one of my major concerns for the military is that funding may not be available for essentials.  The potential problem that I envision is collapse of the tax base.  Capital gains will really be capital losses this year and for many years to come.  Falling real estate values mean lower taxes, not to mention the foreclosure rate leaving a significant number of homes and buildings that pay not taxes at all, and even become a burden.  That is not hypothetical, it is already happening.  The only question is where is the bottom. Contracts will be cut, not for ideological differences, but because the US Treasury won't have the funds for Congress to appropriate

          Energy is a monumental problem for the US.  Obviously we use a hugely disproportionate share and the emerging economies of China and India have voracious appetites.  Competition gets worse from here on out. To quote Tom Friedman, "later has come" and possibly gone.  Therefore exporting even more wealth to provide our energy needs is self-defeating.

          Also as noted, even if even announced the development of Unobtainium tomorrow, and we could guarantee that that it could get 1000 miles per pound (or pick your unit of choice) it would still take two to three decades to develop the infrastructure for distribution and use.  That suggests that THEY are already too late with disclosure.

          This ain't racist or about the "first Black President." My arguments are based on the self-preservation of any organization holding these cards.  Where I'm sure we must agree to disagree, is that I don't think THEY exist and have a working ARV.  If THEY do, then they should fear both charges of treason, or summary execution when the public finds out. If THEY are a hybrid organization as some have posited, then the civilian components can expect to be thrown under the bus.

          As for the super-wealthy, who clearly live by a different set of rules.  However, they only remain super-wealthy and powerful as long as the rest of society accepts their rules.  Over time there have been many super-wealthy, super-powerful who have fallen on hard times.  As an example, remember Louie Something and What's Her Name?

          Where we can agree to agree, are comments relative to Bob Shaheen.  

          John A


          -----Original Message-----
          From: Mark McCandlish <markmccandlish@...>

          Subject: Credibility and Disclosure

          Gordon,
          You Said:
           
          "There are numerous credible ex-U.S. military personel who are now on record with the more than competent illustrator and in depth UFO investigator Mark McCandlish and others claiming to have seen ARV silently hovering in various AFB classified SCIF hangers. There are a good half dozen still photos of ARV in flight over or near military flight test ranges Including Dugway & A-51."

           
          While I greatly respect Col. Alexander's POV and tremendous career, I disagree with his assertion that if a disclosure of ARV (or its technology) does not occur between now and Tuesday, it [therefore] does not exist.  The idea that "THEY", in seeking to maintain a foothold on the White House (and the tacit support of "Black Programs" that includes) would be compelled to "declassify/ for public release" the ARV is flawed, IMHO.  This presumes that not to do so would undermine their profits and market share.  This happily, is untrue.  Just today, I came across an article by Matthew Perrone, released through the Associated Press/Washington entitled, "Health care and defense poised to weather recession",  that outlines in clear detail how the very companies that I know to be in possession of the ARV technology, are already sitting on multi-year, multi-billion dollar contracts that run far into the future; well beyond the anticipated Obama Administration.  These companies are Boeing, Lockheed-Martin, Northrop, and General Electric.  They have no motivation to lay the ARV cards on the table over any feared "defense cutbacks" the Obama White House might propose.  Besides, (with a nod to your "macro-economic" view), the "first black POTUS" can hardly afford to cancel such contracts and be seen as the guy who cost hundreds of thousands of jobs for the sake of a political/philosophical viewpoint, when the public has overwhelmingly bought into the threat of terrorism since 9-11.
          In spite of Obama's "higher intent" this is the nature of the time in which we live... 
           

          ...


           
          Warm Regards To All,
          Mark McCandlish



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