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Re: [SanghaOnline] Re: Nanayana Many and Various Doctrines

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  • Panya Rakkhita
    Dear venerable, thank you very much for your kind answer. with metta, Panyarakkhita ... Yahoo! India Answers: Share what you know. Learn something new Click
    Message 1 of 14 , Jun 30, 2006
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      Dear venerable,

      thank you very much for your kind answer.

      with metta,
      Panyarakkhita


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    • Sayadaw Nanda Siddhi
      Thank you for this answer to Rev! for us.
      Message 2 of 14 , Jul 1, 2006
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        Thank you for this answer to Rev! for us.

        >From: "Bhikkhu Pesala" <pesala@...>
        >Reply-To: SanghaOnline@yahoogroups.com
        >To: SanghaOnline@yahoogroups.com
        >Subject: [SanghaOnline] Re: Nanayana Many and Various Doctrines
        >Date: Thu, 29 Jun 2006 13:47:32 -0000
        >
        >I think having a sense of humour is essential when dealing with those
        >of different views.
        >
        >Attachment to views is the most difficult thing to overcome. If wre
        >attached to our own view, then we are likely to react with aversion
        >instead of with compassion and tolerance when we are confronted by
        >teachings that misrepresent the Buddha.
        >
        >Tolerance doesn't mean that we have to accept every viewpoint as
        >equally valid. We need to use our wisdom to discriminate between what
        >is Dhamma and what is not Dhamma, but not in a harsh way.
        >
        >My favourite Zen story is about two monks:
        >
        >*****
      • Bhikkhu Pesala
        It seems that the Mahaayaanists on E-Sangha Forum don t have a sense of humour. They deleted my same post there on the Nanayaana, and suspended my account for
        Message 3 of 14 , Jul 13, 2006
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          It seems that the Mahaayaanists on E-Sangha Forum don't have a sense of
          humour. They deleted my same post there on the Nanayaana, and suspended
          my account for three days for sect-bashing (not the first time this has
          happened).

          They obviously could not distinguish between the Mahaayaana and the
          Maanayaana and thought I was criticising the Mahaayaana. (~_~) Now why
          would I do that?

          What I do criticise is bogus sutras that threaten rebirth in hell if you
          do not believe in those Sutras, which they allege are the words of the
          Buddha. One can find such threats in the Mahaayaana Sutras, but I never
          came across any such threats in genuine teachings of the Buddha.

          The Buddha warned that those who hold wrong views are in danger of
          falling into hell unless they relinquish those wrong views. Those who
          slander the Buddha or virtuous monks with baseless allegations are also
          in danger of falling into hell.

          The Buddha never threatened anyone, "If you do not believe me you will
          fall into hell." On the contrary, he urged people to make a thorough
          examination of the teacher and of his teachings.

          --- In SanghaOnline@yahoogroups.com, "Sayadaw Nanda e
          Siddhi" <nanda_siddhi@...> wrote:
          >
          > Thank you for this answer to Rev! for us.
        • sam he
          Dear Ven. Pesala, I read your post on nanayaana for me and many others(my friend) it is very useful. It gives us direction as to how to distinguish practices
          Message 4 of 14 , Jul 13, 2006
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            Dear Ven. Pesala,

            I read your post on nanayaana for me and many others(my friend) it is very useful. It gives us direction as to how to distinguish practices that based on fact, can give immediate result and consequently need to be done and from the one that was merely of myth and bogus.

            Sam

            Bhikkhu Pesala <pesala@...> wrote:
            It seems that the Mahaayaanists on E-Sangha Forum don't have a sense of
            humour. They deleted my same post there on the Nanayaana, and suspended
            my account for three days for sect-bashing (not the first time this has
            happened).

            They obviously could not distinguish between the Mahaayaana and the
            Maanayaana and thought I was criticising the Mahaayaana. (~_~) Now why
            would I do that?

            What I do criticise is bogus sutras that threaten rebirth in hell if you
            do not believe in those Sutras, which they allege are the words of the
            Buddha. One can find such threats in the Mahaayaana Sutras, but I never
            came across any such threats in genuine teachings of the Buddha.

            The Buddha warned that those who hold wrong views are in danger of
            falling into hell unless they relinquish those wrong views. Those who
            slander the Buddha or virtuous monks with baseless allegations are also
            in danger of falling into hell.

            The Buddha never threatened anyone, "If you do not believe me you will
            fall into hell." On the contrary, he urged people to make a thorough
            examination of the teacher and of his teachings.

            --- In SanghaOnline@yahoogroups.com, "Sayadaw Nanda e
            Siddhi" <nanda_siddhi@...> wrote:
            >
            > Thank you for this answer to Rev! for us.






            ---------------------------------
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          • markgoris
            Dear Bhikkhu, Dear Friends, How true the words of Bhikkhu Pesala are: the lacking of a sense ofhumour by many Buddhists. I have been practicing for many years
            Message 5 of 14 , Jul 14, 2006
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              Dear Bhikkhu,
              Dear Friends,
              How true the words of Bhikkhu Pesala are: the lacking of a sense
              ofhumour by many Buddhists. I have been practicing for many years
              Zazen(Zen-Buddhist) meditation, and always it struck me on "how
              correctZen-buddhist" are! There is no other truth than theirs...So,
              about 5years ago, I came in contact with the teachings of Ajahn Chah,
              and theThai-forest tradition, these opened my mind in a completely new
              way.When I started pointing out the books and teachings in these
              tradition,many fellow "Zen Buddhist" pointed out to me how sad it was
              that I took"the wrong path", and that I didn't understand anything at
              all aboutBuddhism, liberation, enlightenment, meditation etc. Theravada?
              Onlyfor self-liberation etc! But Zen-Buddhism the one and only big
              thing!Poor Hinayana, poor Theravada...In Mahayana we try to save all
              livingbeings and liberate them. But, shouldn't we first liberate
              ourselves,before we are able to save others? Liberating means: open your
              heartand mind to others and the other traditions. Sadly many Buddhists
              don't understand this. They are: Zen, or Tibetan or...nothing else! Do
              they really understand the meaning of the liberation teachings of the
              Buddha? How can one look down on another tradition - I don't understand.
              The rich and wonderful teaching of Theravada, have changed my life
              completely. That doesn't mean that I don't listen anymore to
              Zen-teachers. But, I believe one should open one's heart and mind to
              really underestand the Buddha-word.
              Metta,
              Mark
              '--- In SanghaOnline@yahoogroups.com, "Bhikkhu Pesala" <pesala@...>
              wrote:
              >
              > It seems that the Mahaayaanists on E-Sangha Forum don't have a sense
              of
              > humour. They deleted my same post there on the Nanayaana, and
              suspended
              > my account for three days for sect-bashing (not the first time this
              has
              > happened).
              >
              > They obviously could not distinguish between the Mahaayaana and the
              > Maanayaana and thought I was criticising the Mahaayaana. (~_~) Now why
              > would I do that?
              >
              > What I do criticise is bogus sutras that threaten rebirth in hell if
              you
              > do not believe in those Sutras, which they allege are the words of the
              > Buddha. One can find such threats in the Mahaayaana Sutras, but I
              never
              > came across any such threats in genuine teachings of the Buddha.
              >
              > The Buddha warned that those who hold wrong views are in danger of
              > falling into hell unless they relinquish those wrong views. Those who
              > slander the Buddha or virtuous monks with baseless allegations are
              also
              > in danger of falling into hell.
              >
              > The Buddha never threatened anyone, "If you do not believe me you will
              > fall into hell." On the contrary, he urged people to make a thorough
              > examination of the teacher and of his teachings.
              >
              > --- In SanghaOnline@yahoogroups.com, "Sayadaw Nanda e
              > Siddhi" nanda_siddhi@ wrote:
              > >
              > > Thank you for this answer to Rev! for us.
              >
            • Jose M.
              Dear Bhante Pesala, Those who slander the Buddha or virtuous monks with baseless allegations are also in danger of falling into hell. What is the difference
              Message 6 of 14 , Jul 15, 2006
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                Dear Bhante Pesala,

                Those who slander the Buddha or virtuous monks with baseless allegations are also
                in danger of falling into hell.

                What is the difference between slandering the Buddha or a virtuous monk and slandering a normal person?

                Jose M.


                ----- Original Message -----
                From: Bhikkhu Pesala
                To: SanghaOnline@yahoogroups.com
                Sent: Friday, July 14, 2006 12:04 AM
                Subject: [SanghaOnline] Re: Nanayana Many and Various Doctrines


                It seems that the Mahaayaanists on E-Sangha Forum don't have a sense of
                humour. They deleted my same post there on the Nanayaana, and suspended
                my account for three days for sect-bashing (not the first time this has
                happened).


                .



                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • Bhikkhu Pesala
                The result of any kamma depends on the virtue of the person it is aimed at. In the matter of wholesome kamma: Offering alms to a Buddha gives greater fruit
                Message 7 of 14 , Jul 19, 2006
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                  The result of any kamma depends on the virtue of the person it is aimed
                  at. In the matter of wholesome kamma:

                  Offering alms to a Buddha gives greater fruit that offering alms to an
                  Arahant disciple of the Buddha.

                  Offering alms to an Arahant gives greater fruit than offering alms to a
                  Stream-winner.

                  Offering alms to a virtuous monk who is striving for the realisation of
                  Stream-winning gives greater fruit than offering alms to an ordinary
                  person who is striving for sensual pleasures. For details, please the
                  Dakkhinavibhanga Sutta of the Majjhimanikaya.

                  In the matter of unwholesome kamma (immoral deeds such as slander), it
                  is the same. The results in terms of suffering are far greater if
                  slandering a virtuous monk than slandering an ordinary person. However,
                  if a lay person is a Noble One, the consequences are still very serious,
                  more serious than slandering an ordinary monk who is not virtuous, and
                  who has genuine defects.

                  In speaking true words that lead others to look down on someone, "He is
                  a thief," "She is a liar," etc., the result will also be bad, unless the
                  intention was wholesome, for example, to warn others about a person's bad
                  character. True speech is not slander, but it can still be unwholesome
                  kamma if spoken out of malice, pride, or contempt.

                  To slander the Buddha is a very serious error, as the Buddha had no
                  defects at all. It is like throwing away cool drinking water in the
                  desert. One who says that he taught what he did not teach, or that he
                  practised what he did not practise, slanders the Buddha. See the Abhasita
                  Sutta.

                  http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka/an/an02/an02.023.than.html

                  A virtuous monk tries his utmost to uphold the 227 Vinaya rules as
                  prescribed by the Buddha. He is therefore possessed of moral shame and
                  fear of wrong doing. Even if he is not a Noble One, he respects the
                  Buddha's instructions, and works for the preservation and propagation of
                  the Dhamma. Whatever faults he might have, he is still praiseworthy.
                  These days it is hard to find virtuous monks who try to follow the
                  training rules. Why should anyone slander such a monk?

                  As for ordinary persons, they are usually striving only for the enjoyment
                  of sensual pleasures. However, if they are virtuous persons who observe
                  the five precepts, slandering them with untrue words will also have
                  serious effects.

                  "A normal person" these days does not observe the five precepts. They
                  will do many blameworthy deeds, and will fail to do many praiseworthy
                  deeds. One should blame the blameworthy, and praise the praiseworthy.
                  Slander of immoral persons with untrue words is still the unwholesome
                  kamma of pisunavaca. However, its consequences are less severe than
                  slandering the virtuous due to the weak moral character of the person
                  slandered.

                  A virtuous monk is like a village well where anyone can come to refresh
                  their thirst and get clean water for cooking, washing, or bathing.
                  Polluting a public well with foul things is an unwholesome action with
                  serious consequences for the entire village.

                  A normal person is like a water pot kept in someone's home. Polluting a
                  water pot with foul things is an unwholesome action that may harm only
                  one person or his family if they drink that polluted water. If they are
                  wise, they will not drink it, but they will just go to the well and fetch
                  some clean water.

                  The teachings of the Buddha preserved by the monks are like a huge
                  mountain reservoir from which all of the wells in the country are
                  replenished. If one pollutes that mountain reservoir with heretical
                  teachings, everyone in the country will suffer. Either they will be
                  thirsty, or they will get sick. That is why slandering the Buddha by
                  teaching what is not Dhamma is such a serious crime.

                  As for polluting the water in a toilet. It is no crime at all. The toilet
                  is full of foul things already. The only consequence is that one will get
                  a bad smell for a moment, and have to flush the toilet with clean water.

                  --- In SanghaOnline@yahoogroups.com, "Jose M." <joe_lop_neo@...> wrote:
                  >

                  > What is the difference between slandering the Buddha or a virtuous monk
                  and slandering a normal person?
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