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How does magga ~naa.na exactly eradicate kilesas?

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  • han tun
    Venerable Bhante Nagasena, Towards the end of Abhisamayakathaa in Pa.tisambhidaamagga, there are the following passages. (English translation by Bhikkhu
    Message 1 of 2 , Feb 12, 2011
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      Venerable Bhante Nagasena,

      Towards the end of Abhisamayakathaa in Pa.tisambhidaamagga, there are the following passages. (English translation by Bhikkhu ~Naa.namoli)

      ==========

      He does not abandon past defilements and he does not abandon future defilements and he does not abandon presently-arisen defilements.
      If he does not abandon past defilements and he does not abandon future defilements, and he does not abandon presently-arisen defilements, then there is no development of the path, there is no realization of its fruition, there is no convergence of ideas?
      That is not so. There is development of the path, there is realization of its fruition, there is convergence of ideas!
      In what way?

      Na hi atiite kilese pajahati, na anaagate kilese pajahati, na paccuppanne kilese pajahatiiti.
      Ha~nci na atiite kilese pajahati, na anaagate [pe] na paccuppanne kilese pajahati, tena hi natthi maggabhaavanaa, natthi phalasacchikiriyaa, natthi kilesappahaana.m, natthi dhammaabhisamayoti?
      Atthi maggabhaavanaa, atthi phalasacchikiriyaa, atthi kilesappahaana.m, atthi dhammaabhisamayo.
      Yathaa katha.m viya?
      ----------
      Suppose there were a young tree with unborn fruit, and a man cut its root, then the unborn fruit of the tree remain unborn and do not come to be born, they remain ungenerated and do not come to be generated, they remain unarisen and do not come to be arisen, they remain unmanifest and do not come to be manifested. So too, arising is a cause, arising is a condition, for the generation of defilements.

      Seyyathaapi taru.no rukkho ajaataphalo, tamena.m puriso muula.m chindeyya, ye tassa rukkhassa ajaataphalaa, te ajaataayeva na jaayanti, anibbattaayeva na nibbattanti, anuppannaayeva na uppajjanti, apaatubhuutaayeva na paatubhavanti.
      Evameva.m "uppaado hetu, uppaado paccayo kilesaana.m nibbattiyaa"ti.

      ==========

      Now, from the above passages, the conclusions drawn by a friend are as follows:
      (1) magga ~naa.na cannot eradicate past kilesas because they were gone. It cannot eradicate the future kilesas because they have not yet arisen. It cannot eradicate the presently-arisen kilesas because magga cittas and akusala cittas cannot arise at the same time.
      (2) However, magga ~naa.na can eradicate the anusaya kilesas which are lying dormant, and once the anusaya kilesas are eradicated there will no more be the conditions for the arising of any kilesa. The simile was given as a young tree with unborn fruit.

      Sir, are the above conclusions correct?

      Respectfully,
      Dr Han Tun





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    • Nagasena Bhikkhu
      Dear Dr. Han Tun   I am now in Bangkok with some works. I am very sorry I could not reply you while enganging with other works. I am sorry for the delay as
      Message 2 of 2 , Feb 25, 2011
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        Dear Dr. Han Tun
         
        I am now in Bangkok with some works. I am very sorry I could not reply you while enganging with other works. I am sorry for the delay as well!
         
        Thank you and Metta
        Nagasena
         

        --- On Sun, 13/2/11, han tun <hantun1@...> wrote:

        From: han tun <hantun1@...>
        Subject: [SanghaOnline] How does magga ~naa.na exactly eradicate kilesas?
        To: SanghaOnline@yahoogroups.com
        Date: Sunday, 13 February, 2011, 4:50

         
        Venerable Bhante Nagasena,

        Towards the end of Abhisamayakathaa in Pa.tisambhidaamagga, there are the following passages. (English translation by Bhikkhu ~Naa.namoli)

        ==========

        He does not abandon past defilements and he does not abandon future defilements and he does not abandon presently-arisen defilements.
        If he does not abandon past defilements and he does not abandon future defilements, and he does not abandon presently-arisen defilements, then there is no development of the path, there is no realization of its fruition, there is no convergence of ideas?
        That is not so. There is development of the path, there is realization of its fruition, there is convergence of ideas!
        In what way?

        Na hi atiite kilese pajahati, na anaagate kilese pajahati, na paccuppanne kilese pajahatiiti.
        Ha~nci na atiite kilese pajahati, na anaagate [pe] na paccuppanne kilese pajahati, tena hi natthi maggabhaavanaa, natthi phalasacchikiriyaa, natthi kilesappahaana.m, natthi dhammaabhisamayoti?
        Atthi maggabhaavanaa, atthi phalasacchikiriyaa, atthi kilesappahaana.m, atthi dhammaabhisamayo.
        Yathaa katha.m viya?
        ----------
        Suppose there were a young tree with unborn fruit, and a man cut its root, then the unborn fruit of the tree remain unborn and do not come to be born, they remain ungenerated and do not come to be generated, they remain unarisen and do not come to be arisen, they remain unmanifest and do not come to be manifested. So too, arising is a cause, arising is a condition, for the generation of defilements.

        Seyyathaapi taru.no rukkho ajaataphalo, tamena.m puriso muula.m chindeyya, ye tassa rukkhassa ajaataphalaa, te ajaataayeva na jaayanti, anibbattaayeva na nibbattanti, anuppannaayeva na uppajjanti, apaatubhuutaayeva na paatubhavanti.
        Evameva.m "uppaado hetu, uppaado paccayo kilesaana.m nibbattiyaa"ti.

        ==========

        Now, from the above passages, the conclusions drawn by a friend are as follows:
        (1) magga ~naa.na cannot eradicate past kilesas because they were gone. It cannot eradicate the future kilesas because they have not yet arisen. It cannot eradicate the presently-arisen kilesas because magga cittas and akusala cittas cannot arise at the same time.
        (2) However, magga ~naa.na can eradicate the anusaya kilesas which are lying dormant, and once the anusaya kilesas are eradicated there will no more be the conditions for the arising of any kilesa. The simile was given as a young tree with unborn fruit.

        Sir, are the above conclusions correct?

        Respectfully,
        Dr Han Tun

        __________________________________________________________
        Looking for earth-friendly autos?
        Browse Top Cars by "Green Rating" at Yahoo! Autos' Green Center.
        http://autos.yahoo.com/green_center/

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